posted
So, lyme people are not supposed to be drinking alcohol, and have a bad reaction to it. But some herbal extracts are only available in alcohol base. What to do??????
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Drop herbal/homeopathic remedies in a glass and add a little warm water. Let it sit a minute or two, until the alcohol has dissolved.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Yes, the warm water is safest. Then swirl.
Above ground: Warm water -- Below ground: Hot water
Tinctures are many with different parts of the plants, as each part has different properties. Some are just rhizome/root tincture; some just flower. Some are blends of several parts.
If the tincture is made from parts below the earth (root / rhizome) you can add to a 1/2 cup of hot water. Bark, too, can withstand heat. Some twigs.
IF the tincture is from plant parts above the ground, call aerial parts (leaves, vines, flowers, berries) use slightly WARM water, not boiling hot. Then, you can swirl it around the mug for a minute to further help dissipate alcohol.
Now, some plants' aerial parts can do fine in hot water (mint), but not all of them. Some of the key medicinal properties can be destroyed by the heat. Just to be sure to preserve ALL of the properties, it's best to just use slightly warm water with all aerial tinctures.
However, unless on flagyl, the small amount in tinctures will be fine. If possible, when possible, get extracts in capsule or pill form. Then you have more flexibility with those that only come in tincture.
There are also some glycerite/glycerin tinctures but not all herbs can be made into tinctures that way. Some require the alcohol for the processing and preserving nature.
You can always take a tincture with even more water, too, like a full cup.
Even when on flagyl, some do okay with a small amount of tincture - but others do not. Ask your LLMD what she/he thinks and then, try just one drop at a time in 1/2 cup of water.
Scullcap is a wonderful herb to help calm the nervous system. That only works as a tincture. While it is often in powder form in some formulas, it is worthless unless tincture form (as per book below).
There are a few others that have such properties that they require tincture form. However, to find the closest therapeutic dose match for tablets or capsules, compare to EXTRACTS, not raw / crude herbs.
You may notice that some extracts are labeled: cold-water extract or hot-water extract for the very reason that some plants just can't take the heat.
Then do some searching to be sure that herb is good in that form.
posted
Thanks for the replies. I am looking at the sources for smilax. Herbpharm is a good source, I think, but they have only the tincture. Root used in this herb. So, add hot water? But adding water does not make alcohol go away. So, not too clear on why diluting it will help.
Nature's Way has smilax in capsule form. Haven't ever heard anyone recommend this maker.
No doc now, PICC line about to age out, on my own.
And, by the way, if people are taking the quantities of stuff that Buhner suggests, this is very expensive. For instance, he says work up to 4 tablets four times a day of one herb. 16 pills a day! And that is just one of the herbs.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Why is there so much alcohol in liquid herbal extracts and how much am I really taking?
The amount of alcohol in individual liquid extracts can vary from 20% to 90% depending on the herb being extracted and its content of alcohol and water soluble constituents. For example, to fully extract Cayenne's alcohol-soluble pungent resins and orange-red pigments requires at least 82% alcohol. A Cayenne extract made with a lower amount of alcohol will contain smaller amounts of Cayenne's resins and pigments, and therefore will be of lower quality than the higher alcohol extract.
The amount of alcohol you consume in a dose of liquid extract is actually very small. For example, taking 30 drops of Echinacea liquid extract (alcohol content of 45% to 50%) amounts to consuming 1/65th of a can of beer or 1/85th of an 8-ounce glass of wine. Also, if you mix those 30 drops of Echinacea liquid extract into 2 ounces of water, that mixture would contain only 0.59% alcohol.
Can I evaporate away the alcohol in liquid herbal extracts by mixing the extract drops into hot water?
A small amount of the alcohol can be removed this way but most of it will stay intimately mixed with the hot water and will remain so even if the water is boiled. That's because alcohol and water are chemical azeotropes and therefore are extremely difficult to separate once they have been mixed. While adding extracts to hot water will not eliminate their alcohol, it can, in some cases, actually damage the extract. Many extracts are heat stable (e.g., Goldenseal) and adding them to hot water does no harm. However, other extracts are damaged by heat (e.g., Valerian) and can be weakened by adding them to hot water.
Also, essential oils and other non-water-soluble aromatic compounds found in certain extracts (e.g., Lemon Balm, Chamomile) do not mix well with water and can therefore evaporate away from the hot water. Here you are left with a compromised extract, but the alcohol remains.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- With Smilax, you are never going to be taking lots of this. It's just not possible. If that is what you happen to have on hand, I'd say this one would be fine as tincture (unless on flagyl and then there may be other considerations).
Herb Pharm is an excellent company. Rain-Tree, Gaia, Eclectic Institute, all excellent as well.
Herb Pharm does ONLY tinctures. The others do both tincture and dry, depending upon the herb.
Very good smilax (sarsaparilla) can be purchased in powdered extract or bulk granule form for crude herb - BULK is far less money - from Kaylx, and 1st Chinese Herb.
I think (will check) that smilax is made from root.
I'll be back with links. -
[ 06-22-2010, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
There is a six page chapter on Smilax in this book - you'd want to read all of that before using. Tiny doses are best at first as it can cause some rumbling in the belly and some sleepiness.
Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner
p. 126: He says the root is what's used. [Therefore, hot water would be fine but as author is post above states, it's not really going to get out all the alcohol.]
p. 131: He suggests capsules; No mention of tincture.
This really is an excellent chapter. I hope you have (or can get) this book.
. . . animal models of non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus (NIDDM) with hyperinsulinemia. . . .
. . . SM also suppressed epinephrine-induced hyperglycemia in mice. SM-treated KK-Ay mice significantly decreased the blood glucose in an insulin tolerance test. We concluded that the hypoglycemic effect of SM raised insulin sensitivity.
=============
Some of the more recent abstracts at PubMed indicate that Smilax may be helpful to lessen Diabetic Neuropathy and also act as a lead chelator.
SARSAPARILLA ROOT (Smilax species) is sweet and bland in taste, and neutral in action. It removes toxins from the bowel, and reduces inflammation and dampness from the blood, liver, urinary system and skin. . . .
- much more at link above. From: The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (TIllotson, et.al.)
=====================
Read all about it first. There are different species, some are stronger than others and each with own unique properties, although very similar. That from Jamaica is different from that coming from Mexico. One is much stronger but I forget which is which.
*** START SLOWLY WITH SMALL DOSE, whether tincture or dry form. It can cause lower G.I. upset so - start with small dose and work from there. ***
======================
Although Smilax has a long history of helping to treat Syphilis (another spirochetal bacteria), Lyme is much more complex ( Syphilis has 23 genes where Lyme has over 250). Still, the high point of Smilax is the fantastic help in removing endotoxins. For that purpose, it serves very well for us. It also has some nutritional benefits.
It also has many benefits beyond that as an endotoxin binder. Again, Buhner's chapter is full of detail. -
[ 06-22-2010, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I am allergic to alcohol and can't tolerate any of the alcohol tinctures even after hot water. I've been doing treatments that don't involve alcohol like artemisinin and lomatium. Good luck!
Posts: 70 | From U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 2008
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The thing is that I have no confidence in venturing out into alternative land, and about at the end of being able to do IV abx. There is just so darn much of the alt meds, and if you read those threads, like the one on Germany, it doesn't sound like a cure either, just endless different aspects to consider. And a fulltime job to keep track of it all. Or you get testimonials from one person who says X treatment is great, fixed him or her right up. One report is not enough.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lou,
Usually, after IV treatment, orals are used for some time. But, it sounds like your plan is to just stop the IV and then you'd be on your own? That's highly unusual for an ILADS-educated LLMD's treatment.
"Alternative" can mean a lot of different things. Simply, herbal medicine works or there would be no human on the face of the earth. Simply put, alternative starts with nutrition - food. That is what herbs are, just with understanding of the unique properties (and science of it) beyond its use as fuel for the body.
A look at the historical use of garlic is fascinating. And it just expands from there. It's all fascinating. To me. Maybe not to others. But the really cool thing is that you have some choices.
Of course, looking at the complexity of borrellia, nothing is simple. And, yes, different people have different outcomes. That also happens with strictly allopathic treatment (pharmaceutical), too.
There is no way that "alternative" can be defined, really. Good medicine is what works for the individual. There are times for Rx and times for supplements and the two sometimes do really nice work together, too.
You say you are about at the end of IV treatment. Then TALK to your LLMD about this. LLMDs talk to other LLMDs. They see hundreds of patients and can help guide you from what they've seen and heard.
But there is no one "cure" with wither allopathic or naturopathic. There is no "cure" for lyme yet, anyway but many have found good, solid and long remissions from a variety of methods.
Yes, I would love to find just one approach that is gold. But it just doesn't work that way, no matter how much my exhausted self want that.
If you are considering "alternative" -- find a good ILADS-educated LL ND (naturopathic doctor). Interview one (or more) a time or two to get a sense of their range. Remember, they've had four+ years of medical college JUST studying the human body related to the science and history of naturopathic medicine. But, only a LL ND will really do, one who is ILADS-educated so they know the science of lyme and keep up with that.
A LL L.Ac. (acupuncturist) can also be a tremendous assist.
IF interested, Read all you can. But if you limit yourself to reading just posts, it's a very limited view. It takes a while to sort out what hold potential. If not interested, then just don't.
No one is saying you have to do this or that. But, clearly, there is a lot of learning as naturopathic medicine is more of a way of life. It's not take this pill or that tea. It's about establishing a balance, a routine that works for you and is as much about what you do with your body, the thoughts you nurture, the foods you eat, etc. as is it about adding herbs or vitamins.
"Alternative" can be Tai Chi - or adding ginger to your foods.
Aside from infection, though, I don't know how anyone addresses the very important consideration of heavy metals without employing "alternative" methods.
Yet, regarding infection, there's also a big difference in the task if you are considering nutritional supplements AFTER successful completion of lyme treatment. It is not at all the same task as someone who either has no means to acquire or (for some other reason) can't get treatment from a good LLMD.
Remember, too, most LLMDs incorporate some sort of "alternative" treatment, even if just with vitamin therapy (as lyme is so depleting to the body).
The key is finding a good doctor, whether LLMD, LL ND or LL Ac. who has years of education in just what you need if you are looking to any particular scope -- just as, if you are looking for body work, you'd look to a Fendenkrais practitioner to learn ergonomics, or a D.C. or D.O. for cranial-sacral treatments.
You'd find someone with education and experience. And, chances are, it won't be just one person.
Maintenance, follow-up support, is far easier. The focus shifts to carefully supporting your body as you relearn - and enjoy again - how your body can move through space and embrace life. -
[ 06-23-2010, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I have ALS/Lyme that gets worse over time, regardless of whether I get treatment or not. This has been going on for four years, something changed from my previous symptoms. But treatment does hold down the arthritis, etc.
I don't have a doctor and have been turned down by a lyme doc because he apparently thought my case was hopeless. In fact, no one knows that to do with cases like mine, not naturopaths or allopathic doctors.
That is the problem and I don't have the energy to keep trying all these off the wall treatments that have their own disciples.
This is why I am going with a few herbs as a last ditch stand, without much hope that it will succeed. When it comes to herbs, there are also a lot of different ideas.
This has been going on since 1999, and I am tired.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I hope you can find another doctor. No case is hopeless, you just need a smarter doctor, one who is more dedicated and willing to spread his/her wings.
You've probably seen the documentary "Under Our Skin" - but if not, one of those featured there had been misdiagnosed with ALS and got better once they dx lyme and babesia and treated.
----------
You might also explore the possibility of Cpn - too tired to spell all that out but more below. If you have that (as do many with lyme), you might more easily find a doctor/treatment.
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
ALS STUDY WITH IV ceftriaxone. ------------------------
A 600-person trial of intravenous ceftriaxone, an antibiotic in the cephalosporin family that's approved to treat certain types of infections, is still looking for participants at 53 sites in the United States and Canada.
About the trial
Laboratory studies have suggested that ceftriaxone protects motor neurons (the cells that die in ALS) from injury.
To be included in the study, participants must:
have had ALS symptoms for no more than three years;
have a vital capacity (breathing measurement) of at least 60 percent of normal; and have someone available to help administer study medication twice a day.
Participants must not be pregnant, allergic to penicillin or other antibiotics of the same type as ceftriaxone, or have a history of a neurological disorder other than ALS.
U.S. study sites are located in
Arizona; California; Colorado;
Connecticut; Washington, D.C.;
Florida; Georgia; Illinois; Indiana;
Kansas; Kentucky;
Massachusetts; Michigan; Minnesota; Missouri;
Nebraska; New Jersey; New York; North Carolina;
Ohio; Oregon; Pennsylvania;
Tennessee; Texas; Utah; Vermont; and Virginia.
Canadian study sites are in Ontario and Quebec.
For more information:
Contact Sarah Titus, assistant project manager, Neurological Clinical Trials Unit at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, at
(617) 726-1398 or stitus@... [1].
For details and contact information for all participating sites, see the Northeast ALS Consortium-Ceftriaxone [2].
Ceftriaxone is being studied in ALS, following laboratory studies suggesting it may protect motor neurons from injury.
The drug, an antibiotic in the cephalosporin family, is administered intravenously.
Many study sites remain open.
Margaret Wahl
53 North American sites -
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littlebit27
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I didn't read the whole post so forigve me if I'm repeating anything. You said about Nature's Way. That is the brand I bought. And I bought it because if you go to http://planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/page/6/
that page-stephen buhner on planetthrive and click on a question-scroll down-and you will see recommendations on herbs. While smilax wasn't an herb listed-it is mainly the core protocol Nature's way is recommended for another herb. So I figured if it was recommened for that herb why not other herbs?
I spent about $60 on www.iherb.com and it should last me about a month right now-because I'm slowly working up.And if you don't make it all the way to 4 tablets 4 times a day you won't spend as much. He says in his book that many times people don't have to work all the way up to feel a difference and that sometimes a lower dose may work for them.
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