posted
Does lyme cause periods of facial flushing and weight gain??? My child has been ill for 2 months now and nobody can figure it out. He has had multiple rashes, but not the classic bull's eye and has now gained over 10 pounds in two months despite eating properly and keeping him active. He had a lyme titer early on and the western blot showed only a positive band 41. He had also finished a course of prednisone the week before testing and was very ill from it. Please advise. Thanks.
Posts: 13 | From NH | Registered: Jul 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Q: Does lyme cause periods of facial flushing and weight gain??
Absolutely. Steroids (the prednisone) will also cause a huge weight gain that is nearly impossible to drop. He may need adrenal support after that (links below). But, infection may be more active now. So sorry for what he is going through, and for your family.
Your son should avoid ALL aerobic activity right now for reasons to be explained later but I'm just too tired and I have to stop. Non-aerobic movement is good as he feels up to it. If he does not, let him listen to his body.
Your son needs to see a Lyme Literate MD (LLMD) as soon as possible. As soon as possible. I'm glad to see you have posted for a doctor in "seeking . . ."
I hope the steroids are all over (they can make lyme much worse). I'm very sorry he was prescribed those.
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" - By Virginia Savely, RN, FNP-C May 18, 2007
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
Meet the players
The opponents in the battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease are the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), the largest national organization of general infectious disease specialists, (and)
and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS), an organization made up of physicians from many specialties. ( www.ilads.org )
ILADS, by contrast, asserts that the illness is much more common than reported, underdiagnosed, easier to contract than previously believed, difficult to diagnose through commercial blood tests, and difficult to treat, (especially)
especially when treatment is delayed because of commonly encountered diagnostic difficulties ( http://www.ilads.org/guidelines.html - Accessed April 6, 2007). . . .
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results.
- Full article at link above, containing MUCH more detailed information. --------------
Co-infections (other tick-borne infections or TBD - tick-borne disease) are not discussed in the Savely article due to space limits. Still, any LLMD you would see would know how to assess/treat if others are present. -
[ 07-13-2010, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- At this point, I assume they've ruled out other brain infections.
AVOID spinal tap (lumbar puncture) if that is suggested. It is a very poor test for lyme. I have excerpts about that, too, if you want more about why, say so.
Spinal taps are notorious for false negatives but often used to deny lyme treatment from insurance companies that do not want to pay.
Be sure to read whole thread. This is just an excerpt:
This is a quote from Dr. C's Western Blot Explanation (at top of Medical section).
[This explains why the blood must be drawn on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday only]:
"The right way to process the Western blot specimen means for the blood to be drawn and express mailed early in the week.
Research shows the borrelia antibodies have the potential to clump together, resulting in false negative test results. So far, unclumping has not been practical for laboratories to do.
The fresher the specimen, the more accurate the test results. Patients at our office are scheduled Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday if testing is to be done.
This way, express shipping will assure that the specimen does not spend the weekend sitting at the post office. This is the right way to test and ship borreliosis specimens. ". . .
The Complexities of Lyme Disease - A Microbiology Tutorial
- by Thomas M. Grier M.Sc.
======================
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
16th edition, Copyright October, 2008
Joseph J. Burrascano
Excerpts:
P. 4:
. . . More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressant medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressive medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intraarticular steroids. . . .
From page 12:
. . . More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants. . . .
Page 20:
. . . and absolutely no immunosuppressants, even local doses of steroids (intra-articular injections, for example). . . .
. . . "Steroid Disaster" is a term coined by the pioneer of Lyme Treatment . . .
Corticosteroids are immune suppressants, the last thing a Lyme patient needs is to lower immunity.
Can you imagine, your body trying hard to fight off the spirochete bacteria and suddenly and immunosuppressants is introduced, "freezing" your immune system, rendering it unable to battle, giving great advantage now to the Lyme bacteria to spread and go wherever it wants .
Corticosteroids can last in the body for months, usually around 6 months. In many bacterial infections such as LD, damage can be done.
Many Lyme patients (such as myself) triggered LD with cortisone shots, pills, inhalers, etc. I can tell you, it is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
It is imperative to NEVER take corticosteroid for pain if you know you have a bacterial infection.
Some bacterial infections are so severe that a shot of cortisone could kill you, although that would be unlikely with Lyme, but rule of thumb, bacterial infections and immunosuppressants do not mix! . . .
. . . Dr. Burrascano makes it clear in his treatment guidelines that steroid treatment is detrimental, these are excerpts from his guidelines:
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants.
The severity of the clinical illness is directly proportional to the spirochete load, the duration of infection, and the presence of co-infections. These factors also are proportional to the intensity and duration of treatment needed for recovery.
More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressants medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressants medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intra-articular steroids."
An easy explanation. Your immune system are the "soldiers" of your body constantly standing by to attack any foreign invader.
When an immunosuppressant is used, it is like killing off or knocking out most of your "soldiers", now your body is open to all foreign invasion and while your immune system is knocked out, those invaders can go anywhere, your heart, liver, brain - everywhere.
- full article at link above.
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lyme can cause either loss (early on) or gain (usually later). Whichever, adrenal support is key to normalizing that. (With the assumption that everyone already has a healthful eating plan).
This book is specific to lyme and other chronic stealth infections. The author discusses the endocrine connection and effects of STRESS on a person with such infections. You can read customer reviews and look inside the book at this link to its page at Amazon.
The Potbelly Syndrome: How Common Germs Cause Obesity, Diabetes, And Heart Disease (Paperback) - 2005
by Russell Farris and Per Marin, MD, PhD
==================
Remember that lyme really messes up the HPA axis (Hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal network). The pituitary has much to do with weight/growth. Mess up any part of the endocrine system and other parts suffer, too.
. . . It seems likely that these bacterial species could serve as biological indicators of a developing overweight condition.
Of even greater interest, and the subject of future research, is the possibility that oral bacteria may participate in the pathology that leads to obesity. . . .
================
ADRENAL SUPPORT can make a difference so as to minimize the cortisol damage.
Cordyceps is recommend here:
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
Treatment Guidelines, 16th edition, October, 2008 Joseph J. Burrascano, Jr., M.D.
Page 20:
. . . If treatment can be continued long term, then a remarkable degree of recovery is possible.
However, attention must be paid to all treatment modalities for such a recovery - not only antibiotics, but rehab and exercise programs, nutritional supplements, enforced rest, low carbohydrate, high fiber diets, attention to food sensitivities, avoidance of stress, abstinence from caffeine and alcohol, and absolutely no immunosuppressants, even local doses of steroids (intra-articular injections, for example). . . .
* Page 27 for SUPPORTIVE THERAPY & the CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES
Page 31:
LYME DISEASE REHABILITATION
Despite antibiotic treatments, patients will NOT return to normal unless they exercise, so therefore an aggressive rehab program is absolutely necessary. It is a fact that a properly executed exercise program can actually go beyond the antibiotics in helping to clear the symptoms and to maintain a remission.
Although the scientific basis for the benefits of exercises is not known, there are several reasonable theories.
It is known that Bb will die if exposed to all but the tiniest oxygen concentrations. If an aggressive exercise program can increase tissue perfusion and oxygen levels, then this may play a role in what is being seen.
Also, during aggressive exercise, the core body temperature can rise above 102 degrees; it is known that B. burgdorferi is very heat sensitive. Perhaps it is the added tissue oxygenation, or higher body temperature, or the combination that weakens the Lyme Borrelia, and allows the antibiotics and our defenses to be more effective.
Regular exercise-related movements can help mobilize lymph and enhance circulation. In addition,there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound.
This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed. The goal is to exercise intermittently, with exercise days separated by days of total rest, including an effort to have plenty of quality sleep.
The trick is to time the exercise days to take advantage of these rebounds. For an example, begin with an exercise day followed by 3 to 5 rest days; as stamina improves, then fewer rest days will be needed in between workouts.
However, because T-cell functions do fall for at least one day after aggressive exercises, be sure to never exercise two days in a row. Finally, an in intermittent exercise program, properly executed, may help to reset the HPA axis more towards normal.
On the following page is an exercise prescription that details these recommendations.
This program may begin with classical physical therapy if necessary. The physical therapy should involve massage, heat, ultrasound and simple range of motion exercises to relieve discomfort and promote better sleep and flexibility.
Ice (vasoconstriction) and electrical stimulation (muscle spasm and trauma) should not be used!
The program must evolve into a graded, ultimately strenuous exercise program that consists of a specific regimen of non-aerobic conditioning- see below.
Have the patient complete a gentle hour of prescribed exercise, then go home, have a hot bath or shower, than try to take a nap. Initially, patients will need this sleep, but as they recover, the exercise will energize them and then a nap will no longer be needed.
NOTE: a cardiac stress test may be necessary prior to exercising to ensure safety. -------------
Page 32:
LYME REHAB-PHYSICAL THERAPY PRESCRIPTION
. . . (there is a P.T. prescription all set to fill out here) . . .
Excerpt:
PROGRAM:
1. Aerobic exercises are NOT allowed, not even low impact variety, until the patient has recovered. . . .
From Dr. Bruno's "Fainting and Fatigue" in the Spring 1996 CFIDS Chronicle
Post-polio expert Dr. Richard Bruno points out that physical over-activity is the biggest cause of post-polio symptoms. [3]
Excerpt:
``when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts. We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks.
Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E. (CFS).'' - End quote.
========================
Lyme is a very toxic infection that is very hard on the liver and kidneys. Exercise can add to the toxic load. Support measure can help. While this is not about lyme, it still raises many good points and offers suggestions of many supplements that are also suggested by LLMDs elsewhere:
See the post about brain hypoperfusion (and how aerobic exercise making that worse for CFS patients) from the SPECT details from the Nightingale group. This thread also talks about POTS, etc.:
Topic: To everyone with cardiac symptoms please read !
---------------
GOOD MOVES:
Tai Chi, Qi Gong, some kinds of Yoga and Pilates routines . . . strength training . . . walking . . . maybe slow biking . . . water movement (Tai Chi in water is very nice) . . . whatever brings you joy of movement while safely supporting your body. Do what you love. Dancing can be good.
There are many speeds to most activities. Do what you love at a speed your body will love you for. -
[ 07-14-2010, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
I am sorry your son is sick. I hope you find answers and help soon.
I gained a tremendous amount of weight very rapidly (about 35 pounds) despite being an athlete and eating perfectly. That was many years ago.
There were many other symptoms too and flushing was one of them.
A year and a half ago I was diagnosed with Lyme, bart and babs and have been on abx ever since. I have lost most of the weight now although I still have a puffy stomach.
My LLMD thinks the Bart, Lyme, chronic infection, insulin resistance and elevated cortisol (all these things are related in a complicated manner that I can't fully understand) caused the weight gain. He is careful to tell me that he THINKS this is what happened. He can never be 100% positive.
Hope that helps put some pieces of your puzzle together.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I would have my child retested.
Steroids lower the immune system.
That is how they work.
May have significantly skewed the Western Blot since it is an antibody based test.
You need to find a LLMD.
Hang in there.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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