posted
I see the term herx all over this website but I'm not 100% clear what is it? Can someone fill me in? Not sure if I've experienced this or not. I recently started my treatment at the beginning of June. I'm taking Biaxin & Amoxicillin.
Thanks! -K
Posts: 44 | From Midwest | Registered: May 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- "Herx 101" -------------
Lyme is caused by the gram-negative bacteria, BORRELIA b. - that is what is known as a SPIROCHETE, a cork-screw shaped bacteria that can sort of spring where ever it wants, not needed the blood stream for transport.
Spirochetes are particularly rough bacteria and they can take many forms to evade detection and resist treatment.
When spirochetes get irritated they emit toxins. To begin with, Borrelia b. is a very toxic infection. But irritate it and it spews forth even more toxic junk into our bodies.
So, our bodies are loaded with toxins and our liver and kidneys are overwhelmed. One reason why LIVER SUPPORT is vital to treatment.
To spirochetes, irritation to them can be nearly anything. It can be strong medicine, too much activity, too much heat, too much noise or light, etc.
That is why lyme patients feel so awful so much of the time. Even a little vibration will irritate spirochetes. Too much heat, too much movement.
Still the herxheimer reaction - from "chemical assault" (even if from a strong herb) - is very real.
The Herxheimer reaction (also known as Jarisch-Herxheimer or Herx) occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria (typically Spirochetal bacteria) die, due to antibiotic treatment or rapid detoxification.
Typically the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins via the natural detoxification process performed by the kidneys and liver.
It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions.
Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours but can be much longer, up to months or years, for other diseases, especially Lyme Disease. The intensity of the reaction reflects the intensity of inflammation present.
The Herxheimer reaction has shown an increase in inflammatory cytokines during the period of exacerbation, including tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin-6 and interleukin-8.[1][2]
The reaction is also seen in other diseases, such as borreliosis (Lyme disease[3][4] and tick-borne relapsing fever[5]), bartonellosis, brucellosis, typhoid fever, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and trichinellosis, Q fever, and cat scratch disease.[6][7]
Especially note herxheimer abtracts with Leptospirosis, another spirochetal infection.
=========================
It is important to note that not all "icky" symptoms are a herx. Lyme is just a nasty infection and from the infection - and the damage it can cause - and the medicines - we just feel awful lots of the time. I think the term "herx" is highly overused, still, it can be a very powerful force, or even just one that is with us daily in ways that are manageable but still kind of "icky" - as long as we are treating.
There are many shades and variations of a "herx" - just remember that there are many things we can to to manage it, though, with the best self-care possible and certain supplements.
Good luck with your treatment. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I mentioned liver support. First, it's important to know how the liver works. Kidneys, too, are important but I can only talk about the liver for now.
3/4 of the way down page one, are lots of LIVER SUPPORT LINKS, and detail about how the liver works. It's here just because there's not really one separate thread for this.
You will see many thread about Milk Thistle, and other liver "detox" methods. This is just a start - zoom on down, 3/4 of the way down the page:
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I'm not convinced that the herx is caused by the death of anything. Just like squid spread ink as they flee, why can't small bacteria do the same thing?
Someone show me where someone has proven scientifically that the herx is the result of something dying.
Posts: 252 | From NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Dawn in VA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9693
posted
dseibenh, when the bacteria (or protozoa, in the case of Babs) die, their cell wall proteins are dismantled and are thus able to be detected by our immune system (which they may not have previously been due to the morphs Bb can transform into, intracellular spp, etc.), which then sends a "cytokine storm" so to speak.
They are kind of like the messengers of the immune system (some of them modulating, some of them increasing inflammation, some of them decreasing- many different roles.
Quick summary: They control the immune response by influencing and changing the balance of T helper 1 (TH1) and T helper 2 (TH2) cells. This in turn has a direct effect on what type of immune response will occur. When the TH1 cells outnumber the TH2 cells, cell-mediated immunity is induced, including the activation of cytotoxic T cells (CTLs) and the delayed-type hypersensitivity reaction. When TH2 cells predominate, the humoral arm of the immune response is targeted (Romagnani, 1988).
If LOTS of organisms are killed, this rapid release can become an overload on our immune system, esp. if we are not able to detox properly. Same goes for the endotoxins Bb and company may emit.
-------------------- (The ole disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.) Posts: 1349 | From VA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Dawn: I realize this is the theory, but no offense to you, where is the proof that anything actually dies?
I think the Lyme community takes the herx as proof of progress, when in fact it may not indicate progress at all. To me it is an indication that bacteria are ****ed off, not that they are dying.
I have been herxing for about 5 years with little progress in my functionality.
Posts: 252 | From NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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