posted
No, that's not the opening line to a Seinfeld bit.
But I've heard so much about mold presenting a major roadblock to recovery for Lyme patients. There is a Dr. D in Atlanta who tests and treats for mold problems in a person's body, according to whom recovery from Lyme regardless of the nature of the treatment is impossible if the person has mold issues. You have to resolve the mold issues FIRST and then treat for the Lyme.
I have heard the same thing with regard to amalgam fillings and mercury toxicity.
If you go to a ND, they'll tell you that you've got to take the fillings out and chelate which could take over a year to do. Then treat the Lyme. The mold guy says you've got to get rid of the mold, otherwise your Lyme treatment will be a waste of time. When you talk to the LLMD's they'll say that there's no evidence that mercury or mold affects the progress of their Lyme treatment. But the best LLMDs are only about 50% successful. Seems to me all these doctors have their own respective agendas. So who are we supposed to believe?
** edited to remove doctor's name (it sounds like he treats Lyme) **
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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BackinStOlaf
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posted
Who the hell knows? ugh, I wish there was a set treatment for everyone.
I am starting to take my fillings out in September. I have 16. So, are we supposed to not treat Lyme for a year until we fix the other issues? That doesn't sounds right.
If the removal of my fillings doesn't help me, at least I'll have pretty teeth now.
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
When someone is treated with megadoses of abx that can harm their bodies and they still can't get rid of the Lyme, that doesn't sound right either. No one is comfortable with taking all the time required to properly prepare for a successful tx, but if the docs told us, "you've got to do this, this, then this and in that order if you want to get well," darn tootin' we'd do it wouldn't we?
The problem is, I think the LLMDs don't want to wait either. You are a source of revenue for them. They don't want to send you out the door for a couple of years to properly prepare for their treatment 'cuz you might get better just from the removal of the mold and the metals.
Or you might do more research while you're getting rid of the mold and the metals and find out that rifing and other alternatives will work without subjecting your body to all of those destructive abx.
Or you might run out of money by the time you're done and there's no money left for them. So they treat you. It's YOUR gamble if it works or not. If they start treating you, THEY get the money no matter what happens to you.
I don't think it's wise to be removing fillings and chelating in the middle of abx tx. You're stirring up mercury while you're trying to kill bugs and detox the abx and the die-off. Cutting some mercury loose isn't going to help any.
By the way, drilling out some old fillings does put stress on the teeth. If you're immune system is operating normally as in a healthy person, then the teeth have a fighting chance to stay alive and survive the restoration.
But if you don't have a healthy immune system, then you might spend all that money on new fillings, crowns, or bridges, and then if the teeth die, you've got to yank them. Root canals are not an option if you want to avoid heart disease, cancer, kidney disease, and a host of other life-threatening illnesses.
That's what makes this a tough and ugly situation. I hate it.
I'd like to know how many people out there weren't progressing from their tx and found out that mold was the reason why.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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MariaA
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posted
Or you might get much sicker from trying ineffective treatments for 2 years under the mistaken belief that waiting for treatment will somehow help, and lose 2 years of your life.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
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posted
Chaps, the 'mold is the root cause' theory has been tried over and over again by alternative doctors. There isn't a magical cure rate just from fixing mold problems. Almost all LLMD's agree that it's a major issue for people who are in mold-exposed environments.
When Dr S of Maryland, the Mold Warriors author, went on a big blitz to convince everyone that he'd discovered the key to treating Lyme Disease and that it was all about mold and neurotoxin binders, a LOT of LLMD's and naturopaths and even just patients working on their own tried his approach. It is only successful part of the time. No one has tracked the success rate but from what you can tell on the forums here, and from what some LLMD's say, it's not the magic cure-all answer either. However, there is incontrovertable scientific evidence that exposure to mold toxins makes infected bodies much sicker (some of the evidence has been in the form of animal studies to this effect). People have to take it seriously. However, there's no single 'magic bullet' treatment that has an impressive success rate, besides antibiotics and other ways of targeting the Lyme itself. And LLMD's have tried all of the things you mention, and their experience shows that there's no single formula that works perfectly for all cases of Lyme.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Stay away from moldy environments at all costs. I'm not talking about mold that grows on your food after five days, but structures which are saturated in it. Drier climates are far better for mold (Rockies, southwest desert). Mold is a huge problem east of the Mississippi thanks to the awful humidity.
I notice a huge difference coming down from say the Badlands of South Dakota immediately. The mold and humidity hit me right away and I feel worse.
Posts: 181 | From chicago | Registered: Jun 2002
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TerryK
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posted
Toxic molds are a problem for everyone. That said, some molds are not a problem for some people. Those of us with certain genetics cannot get rid of the mycotoxins (toxins created by mold). As long as we are in moldy environments, or haven't dealt with getting rid of the toxins that our bodies can't get rid of, our immune system will not be able to do what it needs to do in order to fight lyme.
Mycotoxins in food, environment and those created by internal fungal infections will be a problem for those of us with the genetic issue. Purported to be about 1/3 of the general population, likely much higher in chronic lyme patients. The result, depressed immune system, increased cytokines, activated latent infections, obesity, hormonal abnormalities etc. etc. etc.... VERY sick people. Some of us reallllyyy lucky ones also have a problem getting rid of borrelia toxins. We won't ever feel well even if lyme is treated if we don't bind the toxins and get them out of our system.
For some, the illness caused by mold *can* mimic lyme disease. In any case if one has the HLA pattern that makes this a problem and lyme disease, it will be impossible to get it under control while being exposed to mold.
My LLMD is very concerned about these issues and has helped me deal with them. He works VERY hard to help his patients. He could choose much easier ways to make a living than dealing with the complexities of chronic lyme patients not to mention the disdain of his collegues who are dumb enough to believe the IDSA BS. Oh, and add to that the possibility of being harrassed by the medical boards etc. etc..
There are lots of posts in the archives about mold and heavy metals and how they complicate treatment for lyme.
Oh, by the way, there is a study on mice that proves that non toxic levels of mercury make getting rid of borrelia much harder. I've posted it several times in the past.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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posted
chaps wrote: I don't think it's wise to be removing fillings and chelating in the middle of abx tx. You're stirring up mercury while you're trying to kill bugs and detox the abx and the die-off. Cutting some mercury loose isn't going to help any.
I can understand why you think that. If you are under the care of the right doctor, they will be able to help. No one should be chelating heavy metals without the help of a doctor who knows what they are doing.
Amalgams don't expand and contract with heat and cold but your teeth apparently do so amalgams damage your teeth by cracking them. They can actually cause your teeth to die all on their own.
I've had 7 amalgams out so far and haven't lost any teeth. One needs to have a biological dentist take the amalgams out so that you are exposed to the least amount of mercury possible. They even give you oxygen while they are taking them out so you aren't breathing in the vapor.
In my view, it is better to have them removed slowly so that you don't get too sick. We have been treating the whole time I've been dealing with amalgams and mold.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Well, I'm not what could be considered severely sick at this point. I don't know if that means I don't have a problem with mold or not.
All I know is that because of where I live, there's bound to be some mold exposure. I had my house tested. Yes, there's some mold, but according to the experts, it's not in high amounts comparatively speaking. I'm thinking of changing out my A/C system and having the ducts cleaned because the house has no water intrusion problems or places where mold could develop other than the A/C air handler.
I'm having a heck of a time finding a place where I can be tested for mold toxicity. The nearest place that I know of right now is 400+ miles away.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I had to deal with BOTH mold and heavy metals to get well. I don't think a high level of any toxin will allow us to heal. IMO.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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feelfit
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Member # 12770
posted
Hey Chaps,
Don't know where you are in the sunshine st. but there are two guys in the Ft. Myers area that address mold issues. One of the doc's addresses heavy metals as well.
I don't know about the female doctor that zeny is speaking of, but I'm sure that there are several in Florida as mold is a HUGE problem.
If you need contact info, pm me.
feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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TerryK
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posted
I wrote: Amalgams don't expand and contract with heat and cold but your teeth apparently do so amalgams damage your teeth by cracking them. They can actually cause your teeth to die all on their own.
Whoops! It is the other way around. The amalgams expand and contract - and thus crack the teeth.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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posted
chaps wrote: Well, I'm not what could be considered severely sick at this point. I don't know if that means I don't have a problem with mold or not.
No, I don't think it does. It takes time and exposure to build up the toxins. IF you can't make the antibodies to get rid of the mycotoxins AND you have significant exposure AND you aren't doing something to bind them and get them out of your body, you will eventually get sick. Add borrelia toxins on top of that and you will get sicker.
posted
Or we can just listen to what Dr. K has been saying for years?
Really. Many of his ideas make sense. I am not saying he is right about everything, and he does make rather bold statements about some things, but the man has a brain. I enjoy his lengthy videos. Sometimes they even seem to have hypnotic qualities (they put me to sleep sometimes).
That being said, I totally understand why people think he is a kook.
Kook - A person regarded as strange, eccentric, or crazy.
Yep, he fits the definition. I like it.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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BackinStOlaf
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posted
Chaps: "I don't think it's wise to be removing fillings and chelating in the middle of abx tx. You're stirring up mercury while you're trying to kill bugs and detox the abx and the die-off. Cutting some mercury loose isn't going to help any."
So what am I supposed to do then? Stop Lyme treatment while removing the fillings? it may take me a year to get all 16 out. I will talkw ith my doc but it seems like a choice that is impossible to make.
Terry: I am seeing a very good Bio-dentist to do the procedures.
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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TerryK
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posted
Back- I would take the recommendation of your LLMD as long as you feel that he/she understands the issues with amalgam removal and chelation. You might also consider including a Naturopathic Doctor on your team who knows about amalgam removal and chelation. Preferrably one who is lyme literate but that is not absolutely necessary in my opinion. Coudn't hurt to discuss it with your LLMD.
From what I've read, Dr. K. insists that his patients get the heavy metals out before treating for lyme. I can see the wisdom in that but it was not practical for me and my LLMD and I both felt that removing them too quickly would be detrimental to my health.
I could not afford the $14,000 out of pocket to have the amalgams removed in a short period of time anyway. Spread out over a number of years, I could get about 40% of the cost covered by insurance.
Despite still having amalgams and heavy metal issues, I have had a lot of improvement with treatment and life is much more tolerable now even though I still have more amalgams to have removed. Personally, I'm glad I went ahead with treatment.
The last 2 amalgams I had removed seemed to release a lot of heavy metals depsite all the precautions and I was really sick for several weeks. I can't imagine having them all out at once.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I've sent PMs for info on the docs closer to me. I know that there are some close who treat, but don't test.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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BackinStOlaf
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Member # 23725
posted
Thanks Terry for all the information.
Have you been chelating all this time, even with amalgams still left in your mouth?
What are you using to chelate?
My LLMD likes to do things from a naturopathic stand point anyway which is good I guess
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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