Topic: Why does it seem more women have lyme than men?
bcb1200
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posted
Maybe its a lymenet thing. But it seems women outnumberthe men by a wide margin
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Hoosiers51
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Women are also more likely to seek support when they have a disease, so you need to consider that. But aside from that, it does seem like more women end up developing chronic Lyme.
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TF
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I understand it has something to do with estrogen. Something like estrogen enables the lyme to get into our bodies easier.
There really are more women with lyme than men from what I understand. All due to estrogen.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I have a strong opinion on this, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
When my husband has gone to the doctor, he is treated to a longer appointment, more eye contact, his questions are answered fully, prescriptions are written, referrals are made, should I keep going? You get the idea.
Even at the pediatrician. My husband is very unassuming, he doesn't ask questions like I do. But he gets answers to things he doesn't ask.
I remeber telling my doctor that I had a low grade fever for about 2 months one time about 10 years ago. He said "You did not!" and asked why I'd be taking my temperature and what kind of thermometer I was using.
That's my theory on why more women end up chronic.
That, and women seek support more than men so they're more visible.
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TerryK
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Possibly differences in immune response. We know that those with a th1 immune response can deal with the infection better.
The purpose of this study revolves around reinfectin but some things might be inferred from it.
We did, however, find a gender difference in the immunological response, with women displaying higher spontaneous secretion of all cytokines measured, i.e. IL-4, IL-6, IL-10, IFN-γ and TNF-α. The increases in the IL-4/IFN-γ and IL-10/TNF-α ratios compared with men suggest that postmenopausal women have a Th2-directed and anti-inflammatory immune reactivity with increased IL-10-mediated suppression of the pro-inflammatory response compared with men.
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TerryK
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Dr. D reported on the effects of gender on host susceptibility in Lyme disease, CFS, FM and other multi-symptom diseases. In all these disorders, women appear to be more affected than men, usually at about 2:1 ratios.
He noted that neural cells contain estrogen and progesterone receptors, and that herpes viruses can utilize estrogen receptors to gain access to the reservoir in the cell nucleus.
Treatment of chronic Lyme disease also seems to be gender-dependent to some degree, with men generally having more speedy and complete recoveries compared to women.
He concluded that gender relationships are known for a number of infectious diseases, so it would not be surprising that such a relationship exists for chronic Lyme disease, CFS, FM and other multi-symptom disorders.
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TerryK
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AND from the Good ol' boy network. Oddly enough they are comparing chronic lyme with post lyme.
Their way of saying that chronic lyme patients are a bunch of deluded women who never had lyme in the first place.
Check out their objective! Totally bizarre and invalid logic.
J Womens Health (Larchmt). 2009 Jun;18(6):831-4.
Implications of gender in chronic Lyme disease. Wormser GP, Shapiro ED.
Division of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Munger Pavilion Room 245, Valhalla, NY 10595, USA. [email protected]
Comment in:
J Womens Health (Larchmt). 2009 Oct;18(10):1717-8; author reply 1719-20.
Abstract BACKGROUND: "Post-Lyme disease syndrome" refers to prolonged subjective symptoms after antibiotic treatment and resolution of an objective manifestation of Borrelia burgdorferi infection (Lyme disease). "Chronic Lyme disease" is a vaguely defined term that has been applied to patients with unexplained prolonged subjective symptoms, whether or not there was or is evidence of B. burgdorferi infection.
OBJECTIVE: To determine if the population of patients with chronic Lyme disease differs from the populations of patients with either Lyme disease or post-Lyme disease syndrome by examining the gender of patients with these diagnoses.
Methods: Data on gender were compiled in this cross-sectional study based on a systematic review of published studies of antibiotic treatment in United States patients with post-Lyme disease syndrome (n = 184) or chronic Lyme disease (n = 490), and on cases of adults with Lyme disease reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention from 2003 to 2005 (n = 43,282).
RESULTS: Patients with chronic Lyme disease were significantly more likely to be female than were patients diagnosed with either Lyme disease (odds ratio OR 2.42, 95% confidence interval CI 1.98-2.94, p < 0.0001 or with post-Lyme disease syndrome OR 2.32, 95% CI 1.62-3.34, p < 0.0001.
CONCLUSIONS: Patients with chronic Lyme disease differ with regard to gender from those with either B. burgdorferi infection or post-Lyme disease syndrome. This finding suggests that illnesses with a female preponderance, such as fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or depression, may be misdiagnosed as chronic Lyme disease.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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sparkle7
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More women get Fibromyalgia, too. It's probably the same for CFS.
they don't know why...
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TerryK
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sparkle wrote: More women get Fibromyalgia, too. It's probably the same for CFS.
Yes, as noted in the conclusion of the study posted right above your post.
Since fibromyalgia and CFS are very likely either lyme or some other infection, it makes sense that the same reasons (hormonal, immune system etc.) apply to them as apply to lyme.
My so called "fibromyalgia" and "CFS" is much improved with lyme treatment.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
In my opinion (and you know how that goes...) ... men in general don't go to the doctor like women do... they "tuff" things out until it gets to a point that they can't function as well and then go...
so, I really don't think it is acutally more women than men with the disease (diseases mentioned), but as a group, women are more likely to reach out for support than men.
My fella wouldn't get on here but he sure does want to know what I have learned!! Posts: 238 | From Jackson, TN | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lymeorsomething
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It's not a sexist issue in my opinion. We know different ethnic groups get some diseases more than others. These are built-in differences. It most likely comes down to immune response.
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quote:Originally posted by TF: it has something to do with estrogen. Something like estrogen enables the lyme to get into our bodies easier.
There really are more women with lyme than men from what I understand. All due to estrogen.
sparkle7
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I don't think all Fibromyalgia & CFS are Lyme. Some may be Lyme but not all. Women's bodies are different than men's - so we may have a more pronounced reaction to pathogens like the ones that may be causing these things.
I don't think it has to do with men toughing it out, etc. Just let a man deal with menstrual cramps like mine... He'd be crawling around on the floor like a baby screaming fo pain meds... LOL I can't imagine a man going through child birth. The point is, is that women are pretty tough, too.
Women are sort of like the canaries in the coal mine... I don't mean to be referencing Dr. Ali's book (I didn't care for his treatment) but the analogy seems appropriate. We just may be more sensitive to the effects of the toxins & pathogens. May be hormones or it may be something else...? Hard to say at this point.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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According to the illustrious Dr S of Va, fibromyalgia is caused by the sleep deficit brought on by untreated chronic Lyme disease.
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D Bergy
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It is just the different biology causes more severe reactions in general for women, but certainly women are more likely to seek out support than men.
We reach out for information when we are backed into a corner, in general.
Ticks are also worried they might accidentally bite Chuck Norris, so men do not get bit as often.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sparkle... I didn't mean to say they (men) were "tuff" and could handle things (pain, etc) better.... far from it! I don't think they could handle periods/childbirth either!
My fella and I both have Lyme and we handle it differently. Very differently...
Posts: 238 | From Jackson, TN | Registered: Mar 2010
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sparkle7
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There are alot of theories about Fibromyalgia... Hormones, Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis problems, growth hormone, brain chemistry, myofascial pain, mold exposure, Guaifenesin Protocol, leaky gut, mercury exposure, substance P, sleep deprivation due to alpha intrusion into delta brain waves to name a few.
There are many illustrious doctors with many illustrious theories. I spent 9 years researching them. I also spent about 4-5 years researching Lyme & co-infections & trying that avenue of protocols... Neither worked for me.
I also had CFS about 20 years ago. Been there, done that. I actually cured myself in about 3 years but became ill again 8 years later with something different.
I don't think any of my illnesses were caused by borrelia burgdorferi at this point. There's more than one pathogen out there that can cause people to be ill. The symptoms are overlapping & can be a number of illnesses.
I'm not trying to be snappy but people with Fibro don't think Lyme is "real", either. Read some of their message boards... I just think it's kind of rude to tell someone that their illness doesn't exist & it's all Lyme, mycoplasmas, adrenal issues, gluten allergy, or EBV, or whatever. Or everyone will get well with Guafenesin therapy, antibiotics, herb, rife, eliminating wheat, sugar, fill in the blank ______, etc.
We just don't know - scientists, doctors, patients, physical therapists, natropathic doctors, herbalists, etc. - none of them know for sure since we don't have accurate tests for any of this. All we have are educated guesses & a bunch of theories.
Just because "you" are ill with something doesn't mean everyone in the world is exactly the same. Same is true for what may make "you" better. Everyone is different.
---
re: My fella and I both have Lyme and we handle it differently. Very differently...
It probably effects you both differently, too.
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TerryK
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Sorry - I apologize for a diversion from the subject but I wanted to respond to sparkles comment:
Sparkle wrote: I just think it's kind of rude to tell someone that their illness doesn't exist & it's all Lyme, mycoplasmas, adrenal issues, gluten allergy, or EBV, or whatever
First, I want to say that I'm sorry you aren't well yet. As I recall, you are self treating and that is a very difficult position to be in. My heart goes out to you and I hope you will get well very soon.
My intention was not to imply that fibromyalgia does not exist. It exists as a diagnosis of symptoms of unknown cause. My opinion is that is is likely caused by infection. I have a right to my opinion, just as you do.
I've been sick for decades and like you, have spent years researching CFS, fibromyalgia and lyme. I've tried many different protocols, including guaifenesin. I've talked to and listened to hundreds of fibromyalgia patients including 5 members of my own family.
What clued me in to infection as a cause for CFS/Fibromyalgia is all the similarities that have to do with blood volume, low red blood cell mass, orthostatic issues, pain etc. etc. etc... So many have those issues including myself and when I started researching them I found that they are commonly seen as symptoms of infections.
I'm not ruling out that there could be other causes for some people but in my opinion, infection is the likely cause for the majority. That said, I believe most of us with long term illness have many issues besides just infection.
I don't know how anyone would know that they've been cured of CFS and not just had a remission since these illnesses seem to relapse and remit and there are no tests to confirm a cure. Relapsing and remiiting is their nature. Another reason that they fit the lyme/infection picture.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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sparkle7
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Hi Terry-
I was "cured". I was very ill when I had CFS back in the 80's. I think I used to sleep 20 hours a day. It was mainly unrelenting fatigue. It came on after having a bad flu. To make a long story short - I got well through diet & herbs.
I was completely better for 8 years. I mean going to the gym before work, commuting to Manhattan for 45 minutes each way, walking 20 blocks to work & back, working all day, going home & making dinner, going out on the town, etc.
8 years later - I got some kind of bad flu again & 6 months later I started getting achey - it was more pain rather than fatigue this time.
So, here I am after thinking I had Fibro for 9 years & Lyme for about 4-5 years...
The thing is - is that I'm actually doing pretty well now from self treating. I don't know if I'm going back to feeling like I'm 20 again but i've been doing pretty well little by little.
It's mostly due to treating parasites... The abx did not help me at all. I tried them for 9 months. I can see that these illnesses may have infections or viruses as major components - but I think they may be very different kinds of infections, viruses, pathogens, toxins for each person who is ill...
It's not a one size fits all solution & they may not all be related to a tick or insect bite. (BTW - I was tested back in the 80's & more recently for EBV & it was not overly elevated - so it rules that out as being a cause. Same for mycoplasmas.)
You gotta be like Sherlock Holmes do deal with all of this. Sorry for the digression from the original topic.
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troutscout
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I'm sorry...but I lived thru too much pain.
To make remarks that men are weak when it comes to pain, ie: menstrual cramps....is as insulting as when a Doctor looks at you you and says that you don't have Lyme...you are just lazy.
Don't turn this into a Male/Female who can "handle it' thing.
That would be the same as me saying that women are just a bunch of crying and complaining whimps when it comes to Lyme/TBD.
Sorry,
But that was very offensive.
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I think this thread is about sorting through possible reasons why there seem to be more women than men visibly on the board/in support groups, which includes discussion of any possible differences in our make-up, how we're treated, etc.
But Trout, we have men in support groups who are suffering just as much as women, and boys just as much as girls. So I hear you loud and strong.
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sparkle7
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re: To make remarks that men are weak when it comes to pain, ie: menstrual cramps....
I never said men are weak when it comes to pain. Where does it say that in anything in wrote? I just gave 2 examples why women are pretty tough when it comes to pain. I do think women can bear pain better than men. They biologically have to. We bleed every month & many women also have to endure bearing children. Men are just culturally conditioned to not complain as much, typically. They don't normally have to experience pain as much as women do on a regular basis.
The point is that women do get fibromyalgia alot more than men do. I could see that it's probably the case for Lyme & CFS, too.
You have to admit, that medicine in general is geared towards male bodies. Historically, women's medicine has been an afterthought. Read some history about it. Women have been victimized by Western medicine for a long time.
This doesn't diminish anyone ability to bear pain or need help. It's just what women have had to historically experience condescending attitudes & inappropriate medical treatment by doctors. Read some history about gynecological medicine & how it was developed. Read about the various treatments they gave to women over time for gynecological issues.
Even today, most medicine is geared towards male bodies. They don't have gender specific treatments for many diseases but they probably should. They don't take into account women's hormones or bodies when they prescribe or test drugs for various ailments.
By JULIE MOULT Last updated at 11:46 AM on 25th August 2008
Women are more prone to long-term and often agonising conditions such as migraines, irritable bowel syndrome and arthritis
Doctors are failing to give women the right level of pain relief, researchers say.
It has always been assumed that women's bodies give them a higher pain threshold than men, to help them cope with the agony of childbirth.
But a study suggests the opposite is true.
Women generally experience more recurrent pain, more severe pain and longer lasting pain than men.
Not only this, but they feel pain in different ways to the opposite sex, offering different symptoms for the same conditions.
Different hormones, body composition and central nervous systems means women are more susceptible to a range of painful conditions, according to experts at a conference for the International Association for the Study of Pain.
Dr Troels Jensen, the association's president, said: 'Chronic pain affects a higher proportion of women than men, but unfortunately they are also less likely to receive treatment compared to men due to various cultural, economic and political barriers.
'IASP hopes to provide a voice to these women by drawing attention to this global issue as a first step towards reducing pain and suffering of women around the world.'
Even widely used, over-the-counter medicines such as paracetamol have less of an effect on women, it has been found.
Scientists told the conference in Glasgow that their findings could be used to prevent thousands of sick days each year, saving the country millions of pounds.
The research paper also claims that many doctors fail to take women patients as seriously as men, often brushing off their symptoms as 'psychological'.
This is despite the fact that women are more prone to long term- and often agonising - conditions-such as migraines, irritable bowel syndrome and arthritis.
Cultural factors also influence a woman's likelihood of seeking treatment for medical conditions, including pain.
In many cultures, women believe that their suffering is part of their role in society.
Additionally, treatment by a male healthcare provider may also bring shame to a woman's family, forcing her to go without treatment.
Dr Beverly Collett, chairman of the Chronic Pain Policy Coalition, said: 'It is only in the past ten years we have started to understand these differences, and it remains an under-researched area.
'But even the knowledge we have has not filtered down and the average GP has no idea that drugs such as paracetamol and morphine work differently in women.'
A study in Sweden last year showed that women having heart attacks presented generalised pain in their shoulders and back rather than shooting pain in the chest and left arm.
Most doctors and nurses are unaware of these differences, which can have life-threatening consequences for women.
And, until recently, studies carried out on the effects of pain were always conducted on male rodents, with the assumption that the genders suffered similarly.
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D Bergy
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I do not have Lyme, but i do have Crohn's disease.
When it was finally diagnosed, the doctor stated "you must be in a lot of pain". I said I can feel it, but it is not really that painful.
From his experience, I should have been unable to function, should have been in agony, at least some of the time, but I was not.
People and genders, and even children react differently at times to a disease. The doctor was satisfied thinking I had a high tolerance to pain. I do not have a high tolerance to pain, I am not experiencing what should be the norm. I am not tolerating anything, I have had pain, I know what it is, it just is not there.
I don't know why, I do have the disease, I just do not have typical symptoms.
Lyme is the same way. Look at the long list of symptoms. No two cases are identical. When you think about it they really cannot be.
There are a dozen or more known possible pathogens involved and probably as many unknown. Varying degrees of all of them, plus physiology that is different between genders and individuals.
Assembly line medicine treat us as all the same for convenience, and standardization, but real life is not that simple, and neither is treatment.
We respond differently sometimes, because we are different. I have seen males go for months and years without Lyme symptoms, and then an injury brings it out very quickly. Females, and not all of them, but most seem to manifest symptoms right away, after infection, and seem not to be able to recover nearly as easily.
Dan
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Pinelady
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I too think it may be hormonal. Look at the stats for men who have Alzheimers. More men than women.
Maybe in those that have more testosterone it takes longer to dissiminate????
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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troutscout
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I agree that this is in good taste...and that we are just looking at hormonal, environmental, DNA and body type issues more than anything.....
Its just that sometimes.....and I live with three women....
I take offense to anyone saying that I can't handle pain. Heck I broke 35 bones, trained in Jungles, played pro Sports, woke paralyzed by Lyme and lived thru years of herxing....and was known as the guy on Lymenet that never stopped during a herx.
So....when I get told that my sex can't handle pain...well....heh, heh... I get a little...testy. Ar, ar.
Just had to say SOMETHING!!! Ha, ha...
Ok...so, I am looking at redefining my terrain, going after parasites and destroying the Candida that has over taken my body.
I LOVE the information on this thread....very good stuff.
keep it coming.......
Trout
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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lou4656
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Just in case anyone is keeping score -- Since I was diagnosed with Lyme disease in 2006:
0 of my female friends/associates have been diagnosed with lyme
5 of my male friends/associates have been diagnosed with lyme
-------------------- LouLou Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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17hens
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Of the 9 people on my street with lyme&co (that I know of), 5 are women and 4 are men.
3 of us women were told by our ducks that we did not have lyme (1 had fibro, 1 had arthritis, 1 was just getting old even though she couldn't open her jaw for 6 weeks).
1 man was told by his duck he might have lyme and was given CDC treatment.
2 women and 3 men are treated by LLMD, never having to deal with ducks (thanks to moi).
So what does this tell you? I don't know...
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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If it is proven that lyme is more prevelant in women than men, my theory that men were "bred" to be the hunters and may have more built in immunities in this area than women do. Like immunities they were born with.
And if men are getting lyme more now, then maybe they are losing that immunity because they are no longer "hunters".
But, I believe even in the old days, women got lyme, you hear lots of stories about someone's mom having the "sleeping disease", which to me seems like the Chronic Fatigue/Fibro/Lyme that I have. But, we are all just guessing....
Posts: 893 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2008
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I think that women are more susceptible to getting Lyme than men, because a lot of women like to do gardening around their homes. This increases the likelihood of getting bitten by a Lyme infested tick.
Posts: 45 | From Medford, NJ | Registered: Mar 2007
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17hens
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rmruss, that is a good thought...
of the 9 people on my street,
1 woman is an avid gardener
1 woman is not, but was gardening (planting flowers around her house) when she got her tick
1 man was sawing wood in a line of pine trees when he got his tick
2 women and 2 men are avid gardeners
and my son and daughter were playing around my house, digging holes among our pine trees and making mud pies on the stone wall boardering our house and going for walks in the fields (high grass).
wow, that's something. never thought about it like that.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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'Kete-tracker
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Not sure if susceptibility to Borrelia Burgdorferi infection is dependant on sex per se. I tend to doubt it. And I personally know a roughly equal # of people of each sex who are struggling with, or who have struggled with Lyme.
But I HAVE noticed all the Lyme support group meetings I've attended (maybe 12... in a few communities) seem to be disproportionally attended by women, esp. those between 35 & 60.
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