17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
My 14 year old daughter is being treated for lyme, bart & babs. She's had it for 7 years and started treatment 5 months ago.
She feels relatively "well" and has been keeping up with her friends, gone to camp this summer, getting read for school, etc.
She is battling Bart (I'm guessing) in her stomach as she's diagnosed with GERD and Barrett's esophagus.
Treatment has brought out lyme symptoms but only a little at a time. Like for 2 days she'll say her shins are sore and the next week she'll tell me her shoulders are aching or her hand hurts, but all only for a day or two and then fine again.
One thing I have noticed is brain fog. She doesn't even realize it, and says she feels fine, but in the last 6 weeks I've noticed she's having a hard time concentrating, reading, following directions, understanding movies for example, and she's been pretty moody.
She did get a tetanus combo shot a few months ago and was on the couch for 2 days, so I am wary of having anything "invasive" done at this point.
So of course, now her orthodontist would like her to have all 4 wisdom teeth taken out before they start moving her beautiful teeth.
Her dentist says it would be easiest on her to have them out in the next 6 months as the roots are still very small. He said if we wait a few years it'll be more difficult and painful for her.
I had my wisdom teeth out when I was 17 and it was worse than childbirth, so I'd like to spare her that.
I spoke with my LLMD about it and he says it would be OK to wait a while and see how she's doing. I got the feeling he didn't have a clue.
My question is, Should she have them out now when it'll be "easier" on her or wait and risk a a more serious surgery? I expect her lyme&co treatment to be years too.
Does anyone have an educated opinion or experience with this sort of thing? I'd really like to hear your thoughts...
posted
So, you're sure the orthodontist is recommending the wisdom teeth of a fourteen year old to be extracted?
Just so I'm clear.
Do you also have a regular dentist who she's seeing for her regular checkups and cleanings while she's undergoing ortho? Many people stop seeing the regular dentist during ortho treatment, but shouldn't because they are each focusing on their own area of expertise.
The orthodontist is not providing "general dentistry" which includes checking for cavities.
I'd recommend asking your general dentist what he/she thinks about this. There are two schools of thought among dentists I have known. One is wait and see if they cause a problem, they may not. The other is of course, take them out before they can cause a problem.
I have worked for dentists who see it each way and both do have a valid point.
Either way of thinking is fine, provided the person has excellent home care skills.
IMO, as a recently "retired-for-health-reasons" dental hygienist who has practiced in a clinical setting for 18years, that caveat eliminates about 98% of the population.
Very few people have excellent home care skills (and I have worked in a couple of upscale cosmetic practices - granted those who have spent big bucks on the smiles do take better care, so maybe 75% there).
In those with adequate or less than adequate home care skills, the presence of the wisdom teeth makes it difficult for people to maintain home care around those teeth, and also around the other teeth.
Again, IMO, as a lyme patient who has suffered bone loss and loss of connective tissue due to a chronic inflammatory illness, the reason it is much much easier to perform home care that is -in my professional opinion as a dental hygienist- "excellent" is because I do not have wisdom teeth. If I had my wisdom teeth, it would be an added challenge.
How could I know that? I haven't had wisdom teeth since I was 19. I know that because I spent 18 years cleaning people's teeth and surveying their home care skills. It is easier to clean a mouth without wisdom teeth.
I hope this has helped you, rather than offered confusion. I didn't mean to ramble.
If you do elect extractions, speak to llmd about abx premedication for the procedure -in addition to the abx she's taking at the time.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
Thanks, Carly! I do love a good dental hygienist!!! (I'm the weird person who loves to sit in the chair and have her teeth cleaned.)
Yes, the ortho was the guy who brought up the extraction in the first place. He brought it up at her December appt. and said it should be done this summer.
At this summer's appt. he asked about it and I stalled.
Our dentist, who we saw yesterday, said that of course it could wait, but it would be a much easier extraction if we did it soon before the roots grew much more.
What do you consider excellent home health care skills? She brushes 2-3 times a day and flosses daily. She's also real careful to keep her retainers clean and to wear them every night.
So I understand your recommendation is to go ahead and extract, but get abx premed from LLMD first?
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
OK, you need IV Abx. The Lyme has gotten to you. lol. That's just wrong to love that. Kidding.
quote:Originally posted by 17hens: (I'm the weird person who loves to sit in the chair and have her teeth cleaned.)
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I love getting a good teeth cleaning, too! So count me in with the "weirdos"!! BTW: a good cleaning doesn't have to hurt. If your home care is good, your cleanings will be easier, that's a FACT. I am sure many of us have experienced that.
Anyway, getting back to your daughter, 17. She likely does have excellent home care from what you describe. That, and the fact that 14 year old girls (often, but not always) in my experience are likely to appreciate good home care, especially while undergoing ortho.
The challenge comes in 10 or 20 years. Phrases like "bone loss" "minor pocketting" "bleeding & inflammation just in certain areas in the back molars" are heard more often (IME) by adults with wisdom teeth in their mouths that often just don't fit).
Well, slight bone loss leads to more bone loss, minor pocketting leads to deeper pocketting.
Bleeding and inflammation are the early, often ignored signs --because they are reversible (by brushing, flossing, interdental cleaning)-- which will lead to the irreversible bone loss, between the teeth. This can spread like dominoes falling.
To clarify- the basics of good home care are brushing, flossing, toothpaste. Keeping the food particles from staying in our teeth for hours at a time.
Do we all really clean our teeth/mouth after every time we eat a small "meal" or healthy snack? We are leaving behind a smorgasboard for the bacteria to gorge themselves on, having a grand old time at our expense, eventually.
People go to school, and work, etc. They live busy lives. Not everyone brings a toothbrush to work.
I realize I am getting a bit dramatic here. That's partly to be entertaining, but this is the basis for my opinion.
So of course, take it from where it comes.
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
17, this is not an "educated" opinion, I have no dental expertise, nor have I been faced with a situation like your's, but I wanted to share my experience and thoughts.
I saw that the ortho also recommended the removal to prevent your daughter's teeth from getting crooked again. Maybe you could get a sense of how crooked they could get and how much crookedness your daughter could live with, cosmetically. I guess I'm pointing this out because if this is, primarily, a cosmetic procedure, that may effect your thinking on it. If it were me, I'd be thinking about what's my child's mouth going to look like, mine or husband's, and how will the mouth handle wisdom teeth.
Personally, I've got a big jaw. Also, I'm fortunate in that I did not grow two of my wisdom teeth (on the right side -- my dad never had any). Because of this, I never had my two wisdom teeth removed (and no one ever recommend I do so) -- the wisdoms grew in fully with no troubles. It is definitely more difficult to floss around them for me, but I do it regularly b/c I know what happens if I don't. I'm well into my 30's now and have healthy teeth and gums.
You also wrote "molars," which, to me, doesn't mean wisdom teeth. Was your ortho specific about wisdom teeth OR is he actually talking about molars. It seems really drastic to me to extract regular healthy molar teeth. But, that's just my thought and I hope I don't offend you by saying that.
As for the interplay of TBD treatments, any dental work (even cleanings) cause me to flare. If the same is true for your daughter, you may want to wait until she's had time for more treatment. I note she's been infected for 7 years, but only in treatment for 5 mos. If it were me, I'd give the treatment at least a year.
Carly, you're hilarious. My old hygenist used to say, "and those bacteria not only eat what's on your teeth, they die and poop and all of that is like a toilet in your mouth." Posts: 252 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2010
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
greengirl, you're right, I did write "molars". I just edited it to show "wisdom teeth" as I can see how it would be confusing. Sorry 'bout that.
My daughter's teeth are absolutely knock out beautiful after 5 years of dental work (coming from a biased mom) and we would like to keep them this way as long as possible.
And you said, "and those bacteria not only eat what's on your teeth, they die and poop and all of that is like a toilet in your mouth."
AAAACK!!! I got my teeth cleaned yesterday and i'm going back today and every day thereafter to get the dead and poop out of my mouth!!! Crazy gross!!!
You both (carly and greengirl) have good thoughts and opinions on the subject and I appreciate it very much.
Does anyone think such a surgery would be a significant risk to someone in treatment for lyme?
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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