posted
Has anyone done this new Lyme test from Neurosciences? Think it has just been out for 3 or 4 months.
The antigen testing might be of use to people like hubby who do not seem to produce antibodies. He had 2 positive recombinant antigen tests from MDL in the past - but that test is no longer available.
Hubby tried to call the lab to find out pricing - but they will only discuss that with docs which irks me greatly.
Also I am a little concerned that the lab is being sued by the microbiologist A.V. who was a former employee that allowed this lab to use his old Immunology of Lyme Disease test when he closed his old lab (Immunosciences). I think the test is probably valid, but just not sure who actually developed the technology and owns the patents.
Think I will wait til the new Immunosciences Lab is up and running. Met their lab director at hubby's LLMD office at his last appointment -- she actually sat in on hubby's entire 45 minute appointment with his LLMD. And I was able to show her hubby's old Immunosciences test. They are coming out with new lyme and coinfections tests very soon. Want to see how the Immunosciences Lab test compares to this Neurosciences Lab test.
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This revolutionary new test method provides assessment of acute and chronic Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme) infection in patients. The combination of B. burgdorferi (Lyme) specific memory T cell response and cytokine analysis, in conjunction with standard western blot, provides both cellular and humoral immune response, as well as patient inflammatory response assessment. This comprehensive assessment provides the most complete clinical analysis of infection status and immune response that can be utilized to guide therapeutic intervention protocols.
Part 1
Identifies memory T cell response specific for B. burgdorferi (Lyme) antigens, even ``hidden'' or low levels, and includes a panel of B. burgdorferi (Lyme) specific antigens that offer early and late stage identification.
OspC - Early antigen appears shortly after tick bite or transfer of the spirochete p41 - Early and late antigen that provides mobility to the spirochete VlsE-1 - Late antigen appears after spirochete infection p100 - Late stage antigen DbpA - Essential protein needed for overall virulence
The profile includes the analysis of B. burgdorferi (Lyme) antigen specific inflammatory immune response in patients, which can provide guidance for effective intervention protocols. Assessment includes the following cytokines, chemokines, and immune growth factors:
posted
This lab is not being sued. Immuneolabs is being sued.Neuroscience was once going to go into business with Immunolabs but bowed out when they got wind of the law suit.
This test is the most state of the art testing for lyme. It uses the memory cells instead of any antibody testing. Other labs are trying to catch up with this test. This is the most accurate as your body will show memory response to only the lyme pathogen. No cross reactions. Included in the test is a cytokine panel response to just the lyme pathogen. It will show without a doubt that you have lyme. And just for fun it includes a WB. It is cheaper than others and gives very accurate info. They will be presenting at ILADS and have a booth there for info. I have had this done and it is amazing. Go to the Neuroscience website and look up the lyme panel and it has all the info. Hope this helps.
Posts: 871 | From orange county, ca. | Registered: Jan 2006
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I have great respect for the microbiologist A.V. and hubby has done numerous tests with the old Immunosciences Lab. They used to be the only lab in the U.S. which tested for Borna Virus (now the only lab I know of is in Germany)-- hubby has 4 posiitve tests.
Hubby also had a couple of positive tests for antibodies to myelin in both the CNS and peripheral nervous system as tested in the blood -- since AAL Lab is also closed (posiitive test from them once also) I don't know of any other lab which offers this test anymore since Neurosciences quit offering it as well.
A.V. has published and presented articles on both Lyme and autism.
As for the test -- sk8ter it would be very useful if you could post your results because I have not seen this test from Neurosciences talked about before. It would be interesting to know which if any bands you had and what showed up on the other parts of the test.
As I have mentioned many times over the years -- hubby has had probably 10 or more different Western Blots done by many labs -- including IGeneX, MDL, Stoney Brook, Quest, a couple of different University hospitals and a couple of smaller local labs. Every test except one has been totally negative -- no indeterminate bands even. But on one test hubby did have a positive band 41. And he did have a positive PCR test from IGeneX once.
So yes, I may be slightly prejudiced in favor of Immunosciences Lab, but I am keeping an open mind regarding the Neurosciences test.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Very interesting that they are testing cytokines and chemokines. Wonder how accurate that kind of testing is. I was once tested for a couple of cytokines and the results were normal. Found this peculiar since inflammation is probably one of our big issues, or mine at least. Is inflammation detectable in the blood if it is in the brain?
Is it really impossible to have a false negative with this test?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I will get the results when my dr returns from a trip overseas. The majority of the test is not about bands as it is using memory T cells reactions to the lyme spirochetes. It is an amazing test. It is lyme specific and no cross reactivity.
OspC - Early antigen appears shortly after tick bite or transfer of the spirochete p41 - Early and late antigen that provides mobility to the spirochete VlsE-1 - Late antigen appears after spirochete infection p100 - Late stage antigen DbpA - Essential protein needed for overall virulence
Lou- this type of testing is the future. The NIH is thinking of doing this type of testing on the XMRV virus. This test also gives proof for viral infection through the cytokine testing it does. It can be used for re testing as treatment is being done to see how the body is healing.
As far as this lawsuit, this test was developed in Germany...so I suspect this is the argument that that will be submitted to the courts.
All I care about is this test helping other lyme patients. It is lyme specific and there are NO doubts if you test positive. No arguements on IGM/IGG issues.
Posts: 871 | From orange county, ca. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I would say it is very accurate.
But what is going to be the kicker is telling all those that have MS, etc. they have Lyme or not....
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I don't think I understood the test at all, actually. I should probably call the folks back again, but when I got my results (my whole family was part of their study), they told me that only my little guy HAD an active infection. The rest of us had "past infections". How is that any more helpful than IGG and IGM?
We all reacted to all the antigens, and had a greater reaction based on how long we had been treating. So, the most reaction was my husband, the second my little guy, who also showed the active infection because of the active inflammation, and than my older son and I had less reactivity, and we have treated the longest.
I didn't know the test was approved. That's great, but I was still told that only one of us had active lyme.
And Sk8tr, I have BmpA on my LTT Response. Do you know that that is for?
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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Specialized Comments Lyme LTT Response The Lyme Lymphocyte Transformation Test (LTT) measures the body's immune response to target Lyme Disease antigens. Specifically, the LTT tests for Type IV delayed hypersensitivity to specific antigens. The test procedure is conducted by exposing isolated white blood cells from whole blood specimens to Lyme Disease antigens. If a patient has been previously exposed to a Lyme Disease antigen, a positive test result confirms whether the patient is overly sensitive to a particular Lyme Disease antigen. The level of reactivity and immune response is measured as a Stimulation Index (SI); values greater than or equal to three are considered a positive result. People who are overly sensitive to the Lyme Disease antigens may have an ongoing immune response to these antigens.
Lyme Cytokine Response An encounter with physical stimuli (i.e. bacterial, viral, fungal, parasite infection, toxins, food, allergens, auto antigens, medications) challenges the host's immune system. In response to physical stimuli, the immune cells secrete cytokines as a primary defense mechanism. Cytokines are multifunctional regulatory proteins that act as key communicators for the immune system. Pro-inflammatory cytokines that activate the immune system include IL-1β, IL-6, IL-8, IFN-γ, and TNF-α. Cytokines that calm the immune response are anti-inflammatory cytokines such as IL-10. Additionally, the immune system utilizes growth factors (G-CSF and GM-CSF), to activate specific white blood cell subtypes. Cytokine levels differ dramatically from baseline in acute and chronic pathological conditions. Excessive or diminished cytokine levels are associated with many clinical conditions and diseases.
Final Comments The test results indicate the exposure and immune response of Lyme Disease antigens, but currently no indication of inflammation associated with Lyme Disease antigens. Regular monitoring for Lyme Disease is recommended.
My little guy is the only one that had this:
Final Comments The test results indicate the exposure and immune response of Lyme Disease antigens and inflammation associated with Lyme Disease antigens. Additional therapeutic intervention may be required.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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I guess it does at least confirm that you have been exposed to Lyme.
I do know that cytokines can fluctuate very quickly. I had always been somewhat under the impression that a herxheimer response was basically a cyokine storm -- so maybe the test would only be accurate if one were either untreated and in an inflammatory state or if you were tested while herxing.
It would be helpful if we knew what the test cost. Just about all of us here have to budget and plan ahead for any tests not covered by insurance.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
PeaceMama - Just curious... how long had each of you been treating at the time you got tested?
Posts: 57 | From VA | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
I was part of a study. I didn't even know it was out yet, so I don't know the cost.
Mom was treating 1 year 4 months, sick over 24 years Older son treating 1 year 2 months, congenital Dad not treating at all Little guy treating for 1 year
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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quote: Think I will wait til the new Immunosciences Lab is up and running. Met their lab director at hubby's LLMD office at his last appointment -- she actually sat in on hubby's entire 45 minute appointment with his LLMD. And I was able to show her hubby's old Immunosciences test. They are coming out with new lyme and coinfections tests very soon. Want to see how the Immunosciences Lab test compares to this Neurosciences Lab test.
Is the immunosciences test the multi-peptide ELISA? If so neuroscience was offering it about 2 years ago then suddenly discontinued it for some unknown reason. I found it to be a VERY valuable test.
Do you know when immunosciences will be back up? Why did they close in the first plac?
Posts: 80 | From Canada | Registered: Mar 2009
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I agree -- the old Immunosciences immunoserology of Lyme test was probably one of the most useful tickborne tests for hubby as well. I reported his results from that test when he had it done back in 2006 -- see thread below.
I don't know all the details -- but my impression is that the lab director at Immunosciences -- Dr AV -- was too outspoken in regards to autism and got in trouble as a result. Then he licensed his test (he owns the patent) to Neurosciences and went to work for them for a year or two. He has cleared whatever regulatory hurdles were involved and plans to reopen the Immunosciences lab -- don't know the exact date -- the website says coming soon.
I am hopeful the new test will be comparable to the old one -- don't really know any specific details on the testing methodology.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
This test was not from Dr. AV. He is an amazing, brillant researcher but this test was developed in Germany. I wish the best for him in his new opening and hope the powers that be will leave him alone this time. .
Posts: 871 | From orange county, ca. | Registered: Jan 2006
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lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
This testing is now available. I have a friend who is contemplating getting tested with them. It's supposed to be better than Igenex at detecting long term chronic infections. Any feedback would be appreciated.
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