RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
I am sure all the months of stomach problems are related to massive yeast. I have been taking Diflucan for 3 weeks and yeast is still pouring out.
I restarted Mepron and Biaxin (1 week off) yesterday and stomach is killing me...worse than ever. I tried Zith yesterday instead of Biaxin, but it literally kills my stomach....nausea, hurting, burning.
I am herxing from Diflucan and Mepron.
Is there anything I can do to heal my stomach? I'm afraid the yeast had formed roots.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Have you tried Carafate or DGL yet? Are you on a PPI? I would take a break off all antibiotics and just do the Diflucan until you get it under control.
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Please stop antibiotics until your yeast is under control and your stomach is healed. I know, it's a bummer to back off from Lyme treatment, but if the yeast keeps flaring, you'll never get back on full dosages anyway.
Systemic fungus is every bit as dangerous as Lyme. Keep plugging away at it. And be happy it's pouring out! It's responding to the Diflucan.
Try DGL, slippery elm bark, marshmallow root for your stomach. They heal the mucus lining of the stomach. Often, they are in one product. Thorne has one called GI Encap, but you have to purchase from a healthcare practitioner.
And think about adding herbs for your Lyme and cos, just to keep them in check. But don't take anything that aggravates your stomach. Often, tinctures are more problematic than capsules.
I'm glad you figured out the yeast. You'll get back on track with Lyme.
posted
Just curious how you can tell the "yeast is pouring out"? Sorry if this is too obvious of a question...I'm assuming vaginal yeast? I was found to have a "+2" on my stool sample a year ago and went on diflucan for a month. But, not being good with the diet, dont' think I've kicked it. Waiting for tests to come back on Lyme, but LLMD started me on Diox anyway and told me to wait on the yeast tx. ???Now questioning this.
Thanks for posting. Curious about some of the same things. Any insight and experiential advise appreciated.
Posts: 42 | From St. Louis, MO | Registered: Aug 2010
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tiredmama: [QB] Just curious how you can tell the "yeast is pouring out"? Sorry if this is too obvious of a question...I'm assuming vaginal yeast? I was found to have a "+2" on my stool sample a year ago and went on diflucan for a month. But, not being good with the diet, dont' think I've kicked it. Waiting for tests to come back on Lyme, but LLMD started me on Diox anyway and told me to wait on the yeast tx. ???Now questioning this.
This is gross, but I have a stream of mucous that actually comes out behind every BM. I didn't have this before Diflucan, so I know it has to be yeast.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
quote:Originally posted by WildCondor: Have you tried Carafate or DGL yet? Are you on a PPI? I would take a break off all antibiotics and just do the Diflucan until you get it under control.
I have tried DGL, but have not been taking it lately. I will get back on that.
I have omeprazole but do not take it. Would that help? Will it make it easier to get C-diff or prevent diflucan from killing yeast?
Would I take both DGL and PPI? If so, would I take them at the same time? In the past, I took either DGL or PPI 30 min. before abx.
If I stop all abx for a few more weeks, won't I lose the past month of babs treatment and be like starting all over again? By then, I could have 2 months of treatment behind me. If that's what I need to do though, I will.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- DGL replaces PPI. And, DGL is far more effective, in my experience and without the risks of PPI.
In addition to DGL, consider Slippery Elm, (from the plant, not the fuffy confection) Marshmallow Root. And Gum Mastic.
Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice, also known as de-glycyrrhizinated licorice, or commonly referred to by the acronym DGL, is typically used as an herbal supplement in the treatment of gastric and duodenal ulcers. It is made from licorice from which the glycyrrhizin has been removed.
The usual dosage is 760 mg, chewed, 20 minutes before a meal. Studies of DGL in humans and animals against placebos showed that DGL significantly reduced the size of gastric ulcers and hastened healing, with 44% of the subjects obtaining complete healing, as opposed to 6% of the control group.
DGL has also been found to be an effective treatment for duodenal ulcers. In another study a group of 40 patients who had duodenal ulcers for 4-12 years were treated with 3 grams of DGL a day for 8 weeks, or 4.5 grams a day for 12 weeks, with all subjects showing vast improvement, with the higher dosage being the most significant.
An additional study shows that DGL's therapeutic effect is equal to the effect of cimetidine (Tagamet). . . .
. . . There are no known drug interactions with drugs used to treat ulcers. In Europe, South Africa, and Canada, DGL is marketed in a medicinal preparation called Caved-S. In the U.S., DGL is marketed as a herbal supplement.
DGL has also been reported to help treat aphthous ulcers (canker sores).[1]
WHAT IT DOES: Licorice root is sweet in taste and cooling in action. It detoxifies poisons from the blood and liver, and reduces general inflammation and pain.
It moistens and heals the lungs and digestive tract.
Excerpt:
. . . Almost 50 years ago, a scientist by the name of Revers reported that licorice paste reduced abdominal symptoms and caused radiographic evidence of ulcer healing.
However, about 20% of patients developed edema, headache and other symptoms due to overdose, leading to a loss of enthusiasm (Schambelan, 1994).
This led to the development of DGL (deglycyrrhizinated licorice), a form of licorice that does not contain the agents responsible for the side effects such as electrolyte changes.
The de-acidified DGL tablet or capsule form used in Europe and America is therefore devoid of any major side effects, and is effective for healing the intestinal membranes. . . .
- Full chapter at link above.
-=============
Just is just one of several similar products out there. DGL has saved the life of my stomach and can stop reflux within a minute.
If CANDIDA is causing the pain, in addition to PROBIOTICS, I have found OLE (Olive Leaf Extract) to be fabulous to help heal the gut from fungal issues. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- L-Glutamine is often suggested to help heal damaged stomach tissue. However, for those with lyme, be very careful with L-Glutamine.
In TINY amounts, L-Glutamine can help. However, I would first try all the other things. Lyme patients can be too sensitive to L-Glutamine.
L-Glutamine caused some very intense seizures for me - every time I tried it. It took 3 such instances to connect the dots but - even at a very low dose, L-Glutamine significantly lowered the seizure threshold and caused much more severe seizures, each requiring at least a month of recovery time before I could even really talk again.
I wish I had seen the article below beforehand. I could have prevented brain damage.
Therefore, since lyme patients frequently are more susceptible to seizures, it's best to avoid L-Glutamine supplements. We get some in our food (and we do need some) but extra is just too risky for a compromised brain that is already very toxic and irritated.
If nothing else works, you might try a very tiny amount - with Slippery Elm bark. L-Glutamine can help with the stomach lining but be careful if anxiety or central nervous system irritation occur.
Anyone with a seizure disorder - or myoclonus of any degree - should avoid this (as as sole supplement), unless in small amounts as part of a balanced formula. As seizures are not uncommon with lyme, it's just best not to do anything that can make the brain any more irritated than it already is.
Glutamine converts to glutamic acid in the brain and that can create further toxicity & irritation to brain/nerve cells for those with neurological illness and a compromised blood brain barrier (as with lyme):
AMINO ACID SUPPLEMENTS I: GLUTAMINE - with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate
-by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
Excerpt, half way down the article:
. . . Glutamate in Neurological Diseases
The other concern about glutamate is related to its essential role as a neurotransmitter. The levels of glutamate in the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) are highly regulated, since the neurons have sensitive receptors for the compound.
* In some neurological diseases, it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology. This can occur, for example, if the rate of degradation of glutamate is slowed by an impairment of the enzymes that are involved.
* Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS.
* Glutamate levels in the central nervous system can also increase when the blood brain barrier is substantially weakened, as occurs after neurological surgery.
* The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; at high enough levels, the nerves exposed to glutamate can be completely and permanently damaged, so that they are no longer capable of transmitting signals.
* Thus, while glutamate is a major component of the body, and an essential part of the nervous system, high levels localized in the nerve cells can be quite toxic, and this is readily demonstrated in animal models.
* Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.
* In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).
Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20).
* One of the means by which a stroke (causing blockage of blood circulation to the brain) results in brain damage is through an increase in glutamate levels in the brain cells (of course, oxygen deprivation and other effects are also contributors). These findings point to local glutamate excess as an important factor in brain diseases.
* Since glutamine is converted to glutamate, supplementing glutamine at very high levels in persons who have such neurological disorders may be contraindicated.
. . . . - Full article at link above. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You asked:
"If I stop all abx for a few more weeks, . .. "
If you take OLE during your abx break, that may offer you the support you need.
. . . Are there any contraindications with Olive Leaf Extract?
No contraindications with other drugs have been observed.
However, Olive Leaf Extract should not be taken with antibiotics produced from yeast / fungus or along with additional amino acids other than those received in your everyday foods. They might cross out each other's effectiveness. . . .
- Full article at link above.
==========================
OLE can destroy PROBIOTICS if taken at the same time. Take several hours apart. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
Keebler,
Thanks for all the info.
Glad you mentioned L-glutamine. I used that last night...will hold off on it.
I take DGL (empty stomach) twice a day 30 minutes before abx. Should I take more than twice?
I would like to add slippery elm or something else. I have mastic gum. Would it heal?
Would I take these same time of day as DGL?
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Jennie,
Considering how much your stomach needs help, the L-G may be okay IF, IF, IF you have no anxiety or nervous system irritation going on right now. And if you are also taking magnesium and that can counter excess glutamic acic.
A low dose of L-Glutamine may work okay. It really takes very little in water to coat your stomach.
Yes, mastic gum is helpful. Read from the links above.
Yes, you can take all these stomach herbs at the same time. But if you do take a little L-Glutamine, it's best on an empty stomach.
But, always take Probiotics away from both supplements and Rx.
Now, all this can be helpful but it's not a magic cure. It will take time. (And, oh, I'm not a doctor . . . all this is just what I've learned from my own experiences and through various naturopathic doctors over the years). If you can see a LL ND, that is best. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Jennie - I am in the same position have stopped oral antibiotics but keeping iv.
My doctor told me it will take 2 months of diflucan before it gets better. When I first saw her many many years ago their was a test for candida for which I was positive and I stayed on Diflucan for three months.
Don't know how I let it get so bad, I also started transfer factor lyme and transfer factor multi immune as per Dr.B's guidlines it is supposed to be really good for healing the digestive system.
-------------------- 1999 CFS, 2002 CMV Myco pneumonia 1 year antibiotics on and off 2002 EBV, 2009 Positive Igenex Borellia and Babesia, Brain mri severe white matter disease Monoclonal Gammopathy. On and off antibiotics since sept. March 9 started iv antibiotics Posts: 328 | From somewhereelse | Registered: Apr 2009
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
also note that mucous in the stool can also be from colitis or ibs.
i've had it too.
and don't forget the parasites.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Jennie, If I were in your situation I would try the DGL first. Get the chewable kind. Your saliva helps it work and when you swallow it the DGL will protect your esophagus too.
Take the DGL three times per day, 30min before meals usually. Do you take your antibiotics with meals? If not then take DGL before the antibiotics and before lunch.
If the DGL doesn't help relieve your stomach pain, burning and nausea then consider taking the omeprazole for a couple weeks. It will probably take a while for your stomach to heal.
Stick with the Diflucan for now, maybe ask your doctor if you can take a short break from the Biaxin (at least a week to give your stomach a head start in the healing process).
Try to avoid irritating foods like soda, acidic, very spicy and greasy things. Also avoid or minimize your use of NSAIDS (anti-inflammatory meds like ibuprofen). They can cause stomach irritation and ulcers on their own.
Hugs jennie. You are going through a rough time but hopefully you will feel much better soon.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
I agree with Keebler in that DGL is a better option than a PPI without the risks. Just dont take DGL if you have high blood pressure.
I would keep up the Diflucan and use whatever you can, DGL or Carafate to coat the stomach.
What you are describing as yeast should be collected and cultured and a sensitivity test run to see what it is and what will kill it. Any doc can order a stool C & S and make sure they add in stool test for yeast + a sensitivity.
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posted
I'm not able to FORCE myself to chew the DGL... I tried.
So gross.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Add a little coconut oil to the DGL. That helps. But, hey, it's not nearly as bad as chewing andrographis (which is what I have to do to keep mouth ulcers away).
DGL is usually fine regardless of blood pressure. It's straight licorice that can raise it in some people. DGL is deglycyrrhizinated licorice.
Of course, it's still good to monitor if you have high blood pressure.
. . . Almost 50 years ago, a scientist by the name of Revers reported that licorice paste reduced abdominal symptoms and caused radiographic evidence of ulcer healing.
However, about 20% of patients developed edema, headache and other symptoms due to overdose, leading to a loss of enthusiasm (Schambelan, 1994).
This led to the development of DGL (deglycyrrhizinated licorice), a form of licorice that does not contain the agents responsible for the side effects such as electrolyte changes.
The de-acidified DGL tablet or capsule form used in Europe and America is therefore devoid of any major side effects, and is effective for healing the intestinal membranes. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I'm not able to FORCE myself to chew the DGL... I tried.
So gross.
Some precious soul here told me about German Chocolate Flavored DGL. It is a godsend...actually tastes pretty good. I couldn't make myself chew regular DGL either...just too nasty and made me gag.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It's medicine. It's not supposed to be candy. It it works, I don't care what it tastes like.
Add a little coconut oil, though, that helps. And, if you do not have high blood pressure, you could get pure licorice (no sugar added). that's very nice, indeed (if you like licorice, of course).
These would be very tiny little black pellets, usually sold in tiny tins from Italy. Pure licorice. No more than a few times day. These are so good, it's easy to enjoy more. -
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Yes, I use the German Chocolate flavored DGL by Enzymatic Therapy too. Doesn't really taste like German Chocolate but it is a pleasant taste and sugar free!
I can't handle the taste or texture of coconut oil. Tried hiding small amounts in my foods last winter and could only force myself to take it for about a week. Now I hate the thought of anything with coconut smell or taste. Bummer.
Hope you're feeling better jennie Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
quote:Originally posted by sammy: Yes, I use the German Chocolate flavored DGL by Enzymatic Therapy too. Doesn't really taste like German Chocolate but it is a pleasant taste and sugar free!
I can't handle the taste or texture of coconut oil. Tried hiding small amounts in my foods last winter and could only force myself to take it for about a week. Now I hate the thought of anything with coconut smell or taste. Bummer.
Hope you're feeling better jennie
Thanks, Sammy. Yes, I am feeling a little better.
I am concerned about the German Chocolate DGL though. Ingredient list states fructose...isn't that sugar? I hope I am not feeding the yeast with this. Carbs are < 1 gram.
I just noticed dosage is only 1 cap three times a day. I have been taking 2 caps three times daily...ooops!
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Keebler,
Do you know if it's ok to take mastic gum while on abxs?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Timing would be important but I would guess, probably. You'll have to research that on your own or compare others' notes about it. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
It's an herb right? I haven't come across too many herbs that aren't ok to take while on abxs
EDIT: Just looked it up - it's tree resin
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
hey Lymies: I have a friend who is suffering with MAJOR nausea problems, every antibiotic doesn't seem to agree with her. She's gotten her positive test from I-Genex, is set up with LLMD. She is on tagamet and other strong prescription meds for nausea, but nothing seems to work. Does anyone blog on Lymenet.org enough to know if anyone on there has an answer for this type situation. She's not been able to eat much.. She's had every test imagineable, scans, blood tests, scopes, ultrasounds etc. She is also on Probiotics and Nystatin... Any advice on what to try??
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