posted
As I have reserched so far,most of people have relapse after off abx so which means abx don't cure lyme.
People who recover seems like they do other strategy and route,I want to know how those people get well..
Posts: 158 | From pittsburgh | Registered: Aug 2009
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
At least one person on here has been cured from Burrascano type LLMD's that used ABX and that person says there are others.
I know it is easy to feel pessimistic when there are so many taking abx for years and not getting well.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
They didn't work for me, and I've done the hardest hitting drugs you can take. I've taken antibiotics in various combinations for 7 years.
When I say they didn't work, I mean they didn't completely eradicate symptoms. The did substantially slow and start to reverse the damage done however.
The factors contributing to the complex nature of the illness is enormous, ranging from detoxification, strains, resistance mechanisms, heavy metals, immunological damage, to dysfunctional hormone and organ function. Complex factors like co-infections, including but not limited to the seemingly countless strains of each that may exist, as well as those we haven't discovered also are a huge contributing factor to ongoing illness.
Antibiotics often aren't the answer by themselves (and that depends on the case), but they are usually the first line of defense that people begin with. They are proven -- at least clinically speaking -- to make a dent. It makes sense to go down the line and try to combine therapies based on all the available knowledge we do have. Many doctors don't do that, they only give a drug therapy, or they may only recommend herbs alone, or tell you that massaging your lymph glands is all you need. For a select few, that may be true once the chronic stage is reached but it is certainly not common from my observations.
The reality is complex in many cases. Keebler often posts links when she tries to answer someone's questions, and those links are often seemingly countless. The reason for that is because the factors that make Chronic Lyme Disease chronic are complex and numerous.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
quote:Originally posted by feelbetter: People who recover seems like they do other strategy and route,I want to know how those people get well..
I used the Bionic 880. There are several others who used photons and got well and don't post here anymore. Many also used the PE1. There are threads on the two different photon treatments.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I got rid of lyme over 5 years ago by going to a Burrascano type doctor. There were 4 aspects to my treatment, as stated in Burrascano:
antibiotics supplements and herbs diet exercise as described in Burrascano when the doctor says you are able to do it(weight-lifting for 1 hour every other day; I did a full-body workout)
My doctor was adamant about the exercise part as being necessary for a cure.
The other Burrascano type doctor who has gotten all my friends well is just as adamant about the exercise.
Read Burrascano to understand the theory behind the exact type of exercise he recommends, and the timing of it, duration, etc.
I have never relapsed even though I had steroid injections into my spine about 2 years after completing my treatment.
I even was rebitten 2 years ago and got a bulls eye rash. My lyme doctor treated me for 30 days with meds that treat lyme, babesiosis and bartonella, and I never developed any other symptoms other than the rash.
I had lyme, babesiosis and bartonella for at least 10 years before finally being diagnosed as having lyme disease and beginning treatment.
The people that go to the doctors that I recommend get well. This has led me to the conclusion that the doc is the key to getting rid of this disease.
I went through 2 other lyme docs before getting to the one who cured me. My second doc said it looked like I would just have to stay on antibiotics my entire life. Not so. A change in doctors did the trick!
So, I say that many doctors treat lyme disease, but not many know how to get rid of it for someone.
Find a doctor who has gotten rid of this disease for at least 3 people. That's the doc you want treating you.
I understand that Burrascano cured himself of lyme and many, many other people besides. One fellow told me recently that he is always running into people on Long Island who tell him they got rid of their lyme by going to Burrascano.
So, just know that many people have gotten rid of this disease. I know the Burrascano protocol works.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As TF says, the doctor is the key.
Abx, alone, rarely cut it. Herbs alone, don't either. But, so often, people are trying to get better on their own (as access to LLMD is limited).
You need an expert to guide you. An expert LLMD would be the first step.
You'll still have to study a lot, learn to cook, detox, etc. but you have to have an expert to guide you. This is the most complex situation you can imagine. Beyond words. Simply beyond words.
As part of an integrated protocol, yes, many have achieved a good remission using antibiotics, other Rx, along with supportive supplements, etc.
Some have done all that and not achieved remission but have gone on to other methods such as Bionic 880 or Rife machines.
I'd first get to an excellent LLMD and take it from there. It may be enough. It may not. No one has the one answer. There is no one answer, no one path that works for everyone. There are just too many infections, too many variables.
Yet, know that there are many who have achieved good solid remissions.
Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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You also have to check into mold illness as well as candida. Both can have symptoms similar to Lyme and can throw a monkey wrench into recovery from TBD.
And Lyme isn't the only factor. Coinfections are usually on board as well, and need to be treated.
Another thing is that Lyme slams your immune system. So part of recovery is also rebuilding your immune system.
It's a long, complex road to travel. Thank goodness we can come here for advice and support.
-------------------- You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'
---Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 748 | From somewhere | Registered: May 2010
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posted
they can help shortterm, but couldnt cure me.
Posts: 226 | From earth | Registered: Sep 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
I'd like to add one more note. I think that all patients should begin with Dr. Burrascano's protocol when they do choose the antibiotic route. The reason being is that this route is multifaceted and is the closest thing we have to a complete protocol with a lot of experience behind it. The protocol is not complete, yet, but it's a strong beginning.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I think the primary reason that it is believed antibiotics don't cure Lyme is because of Lyme's ability to persist after typical, shorter term antibiotic treatment. That's not quite so surprising considering how many patients lose their doctors, insurance or family support en route to recovery when they're still barely gaining any ground.
I felt I gained the best insight into treating Lyme with antibiotics came from reading Tom Grier's article: The Complexities of Lyme Disease A Microbiology Tutorial, which describes how the slow growing nature of the bacteria makes treatment take considerably longer. That clearly implies the best standard approach would be similar to the widely accepted, lengthy antibiotic approach still used to treat tuberculosis infection, but TB treatment evolved without the politics involved in Lyme.
I also found additional insight into treatment in Pam Weintraub's book Cure Unknown that described her recovery based on Dr. B's approach and the importance of her relapsing completely and then treating again until she was symptom free for as many cycles as necessary before she recovered.
As far as whether or not one can claim a complete cure, I wouldn't do that based on my current microbiological understanding. However, I know people, myself included, who have gone on to enjoy complete asymptomatic remission and are not leading normal lives without the use of antibiotics or herbal cocktails to maintain their health, so it does happen.
In my own case I worried it wouldn't because I had been sick for so long and had become ill enough to have to move in with my parents at the age of 30 because I needed help with simple tasks such as bathing, which were unsafe to do alone. Because of the length of time I had been ill and the effects on my nervous system, I was treated with IV's for 17 months, followed by combinations of orals. I would have some success and then ultimately relapse, which was frustrating until I was eventually successful.
Early on in my treatment the LLMDs in my area were not yet recognizing the importance of treating co-infections. That was key once that was recognized. Once I was tested and treated, I still relapsed initially. Having lost my own LLMD, I located a doctor who would permit me to do a long term pulsed antibiotic protocol that seemed to make a big difference for me while addressing inflammation.
The only other significant factor for me was testing that revealed I needed to avoid wheat & gluten because of a genetic tendency to develop Celiac, which happened after a severe case of food poisoning during a point at which I was healthy and off ABX for Lyme. As far as a non medical, but very important approach, I did a bit of counseling and used EFT to help manage emotional and psychological stresses while recovering, all of which were important for me. However, the most important thing was treating each time I relapsed.
I've been healthy, in remission and off all treatment for a few years now without any signs of relapse and I know of others like me. However, I was treated thoroughly for a little over ten years, which sounds like a very long time!
Likewise, I know of others who are leading normal lives and who are asymptomatic thanks to continued antibiotic or herbal treatment regimens and I don't tend to judge the level of their success if they're feeling well, functional and enjoying life even if they are still in treatment.
As far as my recovery, I am not yet showing signs of relapse and I really don't worry about it, but I wouldn't hesitate to retreat if I ever reached a point where I found that necessary. Whether or not I can claim I'm cured doesn't feel important to me.
Of all the recoveries I've seen here since I first joined the site 2 years into my own recovery process, the majority who have gone on to recover have had the guidance of an LLMD who tailored the approach to their needs. For many recovery is contingent on treating Lyme and co-infections with antibiotics and/or herbal combinations for as long as necessary.
Based on recoveries I'm familiar with it can make be important to address any methylation blocks and the ability to detox if that has been impacted, as well as the individual patient's dietary needs. For instance, I'm quite sure I would have relapsed and my body would not have continued to hold any residual Lyme in check were I not aware of Celiac and following a clean diet without hidden cross contamination.
So, even though my approach was primarily antibiotic based with a bit of methylation & detox support and a few herbals, it worked. I know others who did quite well with a thorough herbal approach. Still others are reporting recoveries using methods I'm not familiar enough with to comment on. I would guess that would make it easier for you to search out and contact those with similar symptom subsets as yours and figure out what resonates with you among the many options.
Do try to be kind to yourself and others and allow yourself a bit of patience. When you're in a forum surrounded by those who are also suffering and searching for answers, it can begin to feel as if nobody gets to leave this behind - especially when you're all sharing the frustrations of treating through relapses or cyclical symptoms cycles as you deal with the carousel of co-infections. That can be very depressing when you're thick in the middle of it and wondering if it will ever end. Keep the faith because it is possible to achieve real health if you stick with it long enough and find your own missing puzzle pieces.
That's where having a good LLMD to guide you can be key to solving your mystery. Beware the doctor who tells you you're cured while you still have on-going symptoms. Also, beware those who make blanket sweeping statements that nobody ever gets well using antibiotics because that is simply not true and discounts many recoveries, including my own. Although it may not be important to anybody else, it's the most important one to me personally, LOL.
I think the key point is NOT that everybody relapses so that proves antibiotics don't work. I think based on my own successful experiences and on those of other successes I know, you might rephrase that and think about like this, "Relapses happen, so deal with them until they don't happen anymore."
I relapsed numerous times, but it's been a few years since my last relapse and I'm still asymptomatic and medication free.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lonestartick says it so eloquently to really sum up the key points in this maze and this question.
Lonestartick - I hope you copy and paste that to a file as it could be used time and again when this same question pops up. I especially appreciate:
"Relapses happen, so deal with them until they don't happen anymore."
Here's a link to the article suggested by Lonestartick. Grier has also recently written a 5-part series that you can probably find with a search of his name. ----------------
The Complexities of Lyme Disease - A Microbiology Tutorial
- by Thomas M. Grier M.Sc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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bcb1200
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posted
I would like to point out that if you have ever had chicken pox, it still persists in your body. It isn't eradicated. Your body is keeping it in check.
That is what most lyme people believe is the case with lyme as well.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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posted
My LLMD was very optimistic when speaking with me. And the paper work from his office about recovery was encouraging. I'm sure it has more to do with a combo of treatment and how well you take care of your body, though, and not just as simple as taking abx's.
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Not smoking and not drinking alcohol are also necessary while treating lyme.
Otherwise, you will never get rid of the disease(s).
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