posted
please could someone tell if they are ligit lymes? IFA positive WB IGG: 31 and 41 positive WB IGM:41 positive. i have all the neuro symptome listed. ty so much, chris
Posts: 22 | From utah | Registered: Sep 2008
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mbroderick
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5220
posted
It sure looks that way to me...What did your doctor say?
Dr. Charles Jones' Approach to Reading Western Blots: The Western Blot measures the antibodies your body makes to attack the Lyme infection. Also, it is important to note that like most progressive Lyme experts, Dr. Jones assumes you have a Western Blot from IgeneX, which is an internationally famous, tick-only lab, with full lab certification. Other massive cheap national labs process hundreds of types of tests, and millions of patients. They rarely find a positive result even in epidemic counties, in people who have profound and advanced Lyme clinical symptoms. However, if you have had a Western Blot done at a junk lab, please still glance at the result. Why? Because you may find, as I did with one relative, that one of the antibodies or "bands" was positive. In this relative, the band was a "fingerprint" band. Meaning, Lyme is the only organism that makes the human body make this antibody. The child was positive. Simply, if you are blindfolded and touch the side of an elephant, you may not be sure it is an elephant�perhaps this is a rhino? This is the 41 band. It is from the flagella, or huge stringy rod that projects from it. Very crudely, the flagellum looks a dash like a sperm tail on the Lyme organism and is most often positive. However, the 41 antibody is not specific to Lyme, since many organisms have flagella. Now, what if you touch this same elephant on its tusks or on its long peanut-eating tubular nose? You know it is an elephant. Period. One touch and you are certain, because these parts are very unique to this huge animal. This is Dr. Jones' point. It you see an 18 antibody that has a positive, you have Lyme. You do not need to check any other bands, because the 18 antibody is highly specific to Lyme�just like a tusk on an elephant. What Do the Number of Pluses Mean? IgeneX gives levels of antibodies. One + means you have some antibody of that type, and +++ means you have a very large amount of antibody of that type. However, Lyme ruins immune system functioning and the number of positives usually goes up with treatment. People with no aggressive past Lyme treatment, should be lucky their body has made any antibodies at all, since Lyme is very good at both hiding from the immune system and hindering it. Also, many people have +/- findings on an antibody. This means the lab tech is seeing something, but is not ready to call it a clear positive. In my experience, many of these patients also show high Epstein Barr labs, which means this common infection is not in check and the immune system is very weak. And after we treat the patient, the +/- usually becomes a clear + or even a ++--which means you now have new and clear antibodies against this part of the Lyme bug. Currently, IgeneX does not use Dr. Jones' criteria. I have not asked them why. Perhaps because they are accountable to different laboratory regulating agencies, and in general the government is anti-progressive Lyme. They are years behind clinical medicine and following a few Ivy Tower types. Many government agencies are attacking Lyme experts like the FDA and especially state medical boards. These lawyer run groups are attacking the best Lyme doctors in the USA. Generally, after the board takes out some of the best Lyme doctors in their state, patients counter attack the state boards and get laws passed to stop this 1984 Big Brother harassment. But these doctors are gone. Further, this scares thousands of doctors into avoiding treating Lyme aggressively or makes simple thinking doctors feel these progressive doctors must have been wrong. Some physicians are simple in the politics of power. We have seen the same state board abuse against physicians willing to take on a few desperately suffering chronic pain patients, e.g., the type with rotting joints who are inoperable and need rising doses of narcotics to work fulltime and keep from crying from pain. For example, Pennsylvania and New York are two of the leading anti-pain, anti-Lyme treatment and anti-doctor states in the USA. Addendum Regarding Lyme Serology: There are nine known [Lyme] Borrelia burgdorferi Genus species specific KDA Western Blot antibodies (bands): 18, 23, 31, 34, 37, 39, 83 and 93. Only one of these Borrelia burgdorferi genus specific bands is needed to confirm that there is serological evidence of exposure to the Borrelia burgdorferi spirochete and can confirm a clinical diagnosis of Lyme Disease. CDC Western Blot IgM surveillance criteria includes only two burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies for IgM 23 and 39 and excludes the other seven Borrelia burgdorferi antibodies. CDC Western Blot IgG surveillance criteria includes 18, 23, 30, 37, 39 and 93 and excludes bands 31, 34 and 83. It does not make sense to exclude any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies in a Lyme Western Blot, and to include only two of these antibodies in IgM because all the antibodies in IgG were once IgM. IgM converts to IgG in about two months unless there is a persisting infection driving a persisting IgM reaction. This is the case with any infection including a Borrelia burgdorferi induced Lyme disease. The CDC wrongfully includes five non-specific cross-reacting antibodies in its Western Blot surveillance criteria: 28, 41, 45, 58 and 66. This leads to the possibility of false positive Lyme Western Blots. There can be no false positives if only Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific antibodies are considered. One can have a CDC surveillance positive IgG Lyme Western Blot with the five non-specific antibodies without having any Borrelia burgdorferi genus species specific antibodies. This does not make sense. The CDC recommends that the Lyme Western Blot be performed only if there is a positive or equivocal Lyme ELISA. In my practice of over 6000 children with Lyme disease, 30% with a CDC positive Lyme Western Blot have negative ELISA's. The Lyme ELISA is a poor screening test. An adequate screening test should have false positives, not false negatives.
Posts: 2097 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
thanks... does anyone else know more? so the 41 means NOTHING? how about the 31? how about the IFA (immunoflourecence antibody)? thanks again, chris
Posts: 22 | From utah | Registered: Sep 2008
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the number of people exposed is in the millions. the reason you can't get treated is they have decided that only early disease merits diagnosis and treatment. the bacterium itself is the most bizarre human bacterial pathogen known, and is poorly understood. they don't know how many people are carrying a permanent relapsing brain infection. you can't get diagnosis or treatment because they have to pretend it doesn't exist and use labels like 'post lyme' and 'CFS' etc. for those who manifest illness.
Look at what steere did in his 1992 study which is the foundation for the CDC serodiagnostic standard. He and others often look back on this and refer to a 'normal' control, but in fact the control was taken from sick people...MS sufferers, CFS sufferers, in sum, conditions which could have been caused or complicated by late Bb infection. Moreover, he threw in 25 syphilitic patients which constituted 20% of the control. Hoever, syphilis itself has an annual US incidence of 3 per 100,000.
this statistical chicanery, which fudged the result at 41 kDa on Bb blot by many multiples, is significant, because syph serum will cross react at 41 kDa to Bb western blots. it allowed them to 'swift boat' the importance of the reaction to 41 kDa, which is the earliest and most consistent human ab response to Bb infection, being present in all stages as opposed to the rest of the proteins which are variably expressed according to stage, tissue type, even temperature.
Flagellin {41kDa} is necessary for Bb to survive under all conditions, and is constantly expressed, including in late CNS infection. Yet they chose to swift-boat this response.
why? it's for political and economic reasons. telling the truth about diagnosis and treatment results in mass panic and probable economic collapse/political revolution. it's likely a bioweapon. north american disease is different from european disease...lack of CSF antibodies, for instance. a much larger range of serum resistance to host species in wild{allows Bb to infect a much wider range of species, important in disease spread and maintenance in wild}. the CDC has found that Bb 31 goes intracellular in CNS cells.
Telling the truth threatens the careers and livelihoods of the very individuals who control this issue and who have actively lied and deceived and otherwise operated a scientific propaganda campaign for the past 15+ years, profitting from the campaign as they went.
lyme disease, which in the US also perhaps includes other pathogens notably a bioweaponized bartonella, threatens the entire establishment. if late disease was rare, we'd be able to get treatment. unfortunately, the EIS/CDC,DOD totally screwed this up and tried to make money off of the disease, making profitability their first priority as opposed to protecting the health of americans.
think about this...allen steere wouldn't listen to polly murray in early 90's when she reported a big incidence of neuropsychiatric disease in lyme. She had to call fallon. Now, fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated. Global hypoperfusion on spect/pet ain't normal folks. Don't you think the CDC etc. should be breaking their balls trying to figure it out? Instead, we see nothing at all, only continued attempts to deny illness and obstruct treatment.
Obviously, they know what is going on, and have determined that the best course is to do nothing, to cover up, knowing that in doing so, they are condemning large numbers of people to perpetual diagnostic and treatment hell.
think about it. it's a horrific scandal and I'm not sure how much longer these *******s can keep control of it.
.....Posted in the replies to the above link... by lymenetter Aligondo Bruce.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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