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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Why not to Expect Help From the Government

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Author Topic: Why not to Expect Help From the Government
hwlatin
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I have spent alot of time the past several months looking into the political aspects of Lyme disease. Conspriracies aside, the reality is that there really are few answers as to how to sucessfully deal with Lyme and other closely related infections.

Costs associated with treating Lyme and the complications it causes are pretty high. Like everything else this all comes down to money. Drug companies make a mint on the drugs they sell to effectivly aid in the treatment of the symptoms that might or might not be associated with Lyme. The loss of revenue to these companies could essentially bankrupt them.

The government has to know how bad the situation is and I am sure that they have weighed the costs associated with treatment, life expectancy and worker productivity. It would bankrupt this country to have to treat all those infected with Lyme, they know this.

The insurance companies know the liability they have and have lobbied the government hard to limit their liability by supporting limited treatment. Any change would bankrupt the insurance industry, or make insurance so expensive that nobody could afford it.

So what they have done is hide the disease. Essentially allowing those that have the worst cases to fend for themselves and most likely fade away. Until such a time that a true cure comes about, the government will do very little to mandate anything else.

I am sure the same thing went on with Aids, the big difference is that in this country the infection rate is such that the worry over treatment costs is relativly small. I would bet that the infection rate of Lyme is so high and transmission so much easier than anything they have seen before, that the though of treatment costs scares everyone. I am sure they figure that the strong will survive until a cure is found. Almost sounds like another country we knew in the 30 and 40's.

Of course if you believe in conspiracies, then population control would make alot of sense. I have a hard time buying this, but either way expect very little help from the government, matter of fact I think we are wasting our time in even trying.

The only wild card is if we focus all our efforts to get the word out. Our money should go for advertising not lobbying. The public has to be made aware of what is going on. The problem with this is that those who do this probably will be subjected to heavy government scrutiny, I think we have already seen that.

It really bothers me saying this, because for most of my years I have had alot of respect for our government, but lately I am not so sure, and this is coming from an extreme conservative. I actually dont think this is a Left or Right issue, I think it is bigger than that. Somewhere the government by the people for the people has gone away. However this happened, there is only one way it can change and that is at a grass roots level.

This can only be done by educating and getting the people to stand up and make a change. This will have to be done on a large scale to be sucessful, anything less and it will mean the status quo. It is very risky at this point in dealing with politicians, we have seen legislation turn on a dime, and in some cases if inacted will do more harm than good.

The reason being as soon as we get them to move a little bigger forces come in and get them to turn around. This is just my opinion, but do the research it is not hard to see what has been going on.



Posts: 533 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ann-OH
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Just take a look at the latest news about the NIH. Doesn't actually inspire confidence, does it????

Ann-OH

(from the article below)
"One longtime medical officer at the government's premier medical research agency alleges that the harassment and disregard for federal safety regulations are so widespread that employees are now afraid to hold up experiments even if they see a safety problem."
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1113219027117820.xml#continue

Women at NIH describe sex harassment, lax safety
Monday, April 11, 2005
John Solomon
Associated Press
Washington - Women at the National Institutes of Health faced sexual intimidation and repeated disregard of their concerns for the welfare of patients in AIDS experiments, according to testimony by two senior female officers and documents gathered by investigators.

One longtime medical officer at the government's premier medical research agency alleges that the harassment and disregard for federal safety regulations are so widespread that employees are now afraid to hold up experiments even if they see a safety problem.

Her sworn testimony and other documents were obtained by the Associated Press from a variety of sources inside and outside NIH.

"It can be fairly uncomfortable," NIH medical officer Betsy Smith testified in a recent civil case deposition that has been turned over to federal and Senate investigators.

Documents tell of a supervisor sending a red bra to a former female subordinate and of women being hugged or kissed by bosses.

Smith and the top regulatory compliance officer in the NIH's AIDS division, Mary Anne Luzar, stepped forward in interviews with investigators and in sworn depositions in recent weeks and expanded upon allegations made last year by an agency whistleblower, Dr. Jonathan Fishbein. Their videotaped testimony was given in Fishbein's lawsuit against the agency.

Fishbein says he is in the process of being fired as the AIDS division's chief of human research protection because he raised concerns about patient safety and shoddy science. The NIH says he was fired for poor performance.

The Senate and the inspector general at the Health and Human Services Department are investigating. In addition, officials told the AP, the NIH is conducting an internal investigation on sexual harassment.

NIH managers acknowledged in interviews that there are problems in their AIDS research program, which pays hundreds of millions of dollars for experiments across the globe. They said they could not address specific allegations because of the investigations, but were taking steps to end any sexual harassment and improve communication among employees when safety issues arise.

Dr. H. Clifford Lane, deputy director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said "sexual harassment is not tolerated at NIH and we are committed to ensuring that all employees are treated with dignity and respect."


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Lymerayja
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Hello Hwlatin,

It is interesting to see a former "extreme conservative", as you described yourself, recognising that the greed of big corporations for profits causes huge suffering. I know very, very few extreme conservatives who acknowledge that (except a few who say,"ok, but so what. Let the strongest survive!")

Although big Pharma companies have played an important role in the falsification of Lyme science, I see their role as more to do with wanting to make millions out of ineffective and useless vaccines, than to profit from the sale of a lifetime of symptomatic relief meds.

We know for a fact that two of the world's biggest Pharma corporations, Glaxo SmithKline and Pasteur Merieux Connaught (now Aventis), were developing OspA vaccines in spite of the evidence that vaccination based on this technology, (patented by Barbour), could be very unsafe. And of course the LymeRix vaccine did get withdrawn from the market (after $200 million had been invested in it), after it was exposed by Kathleen Dickson and others as dangerous.

I feel there would be significant risks involved, from the point of view of Big Pharma, in conspiring to deliberately keep huge numbers of people unnecessarily chronically ill just to sell them palliatives, as you are suggesting.

Huge numbers of people incapacitated may be profitable for drug companies, but is not very helpful to other industries that depend on all those people to run their factories, offices etc, and to buy their products and services.

A chronically ill Lymie not only can no longer work, but often becomes too destitute to buy anything beyond the most basic essentials (and sometimes can't even afford those). A massive hike in the number of disabled people is a disaster for so many industries - travel, motor, petrol, sports equipment, leisure, even restaurants, cinema and fashion, as people can no longer afford to go anywhere, and are too sick to go.

Without the rest of industry (and therefore government too) behind them, big Pharma would be playing a very risky game, and exposure of what they were doing could bring huge repercussions and the jailing of any government official, doctor or scientist who had helped them.

The blood products companies who conspired to obstruct vital changes to protect the US blood supply from HIV contamination,(and are probably directly responsible for thousands of death as a result), could not sustain their disgusting racket indefinitely. They were swept aside not just by pressure from medics, but by the fact that government and industry do not want the whole nation to drop dead, (though it may sometimes seem that way!), as they then have no one left to rule over/profit from.

I believe that a cover-up on the scale of the Lyme cover-up could not have come about by the manoeuvrings of Big Pharma alone, or even Big Pharma and the insurance industry combined, if it did not have the backing of the other heavyweight multinationals, and therefore government too.

I believe you are right when you say they have conspired to essentially hide the disease, and leave the incapacitated to fend for themselves. It won't be too great a drain on the tax budget when a large percent of chronic Lymies are being refused disability payments anyway, and being told they are hypochondriac, lazy or mentally ill.

I believe the added ingredient missing in your analysis is the role of the government and military themselves. It is a fact that a hugely disproportionate number of the Steere camp are biowarfare experts. I believe that there is a military interest in Lyme disease, and that is the overriding factor that has allowed all the powers-that-be to agree on the need to finesse the epidemic out of existence, to the supreme joy of the insurance industry, absentee landowners of tick-infested properties, and tourism, and manufacturers of bogus test-kits and vaccines etc..

A large number of Steere camp doctors have glaring conflicts of interest with dodgy vaccine and test-kit companies.

I agree with you that people will need to act at the grass roots level. Legislation can be helpful if we can put up a hard enough fight to force good laws to be a)passed and b)enforced; but the risks are great if we are not acknowledging and exposing the fact that our governments (of all political stripes) have been complicit in this fraud. I don't know the details of the recent bill that turned sour at the last minute, but it is logical to me that while the complicity of government is not exposed, there will be last-minute, underhand moves to overturn any good legislation, or, as in the case of the bill requiring the CDC to stop the misuse of its crappy surveillance criteria for diagnosis, simply a tacit agreement to ignore the law once passed and never enforce it.

You mentioned "population control". I don't believe that the western governments released Lyme to control their own populations. This does not rule out however, the idea that governments are covering up the Lyme epidemic and causing huge numbers to suffer needlesslly, because lyme science is a militarily sensitive issue for them. But "militarily sensitive" does not equate with "population control" of their own population, which I find farfetched.

It is true that there was a powerful eugenicist movement in the first half of the twentieth century, and the descendants of that movement are still around. However, eugenicists tend to pick on populations of other countries, ethnic minorities within their own, or lifestyle sub-groups which they declare inferior and of which their own "master race" needs to be "cleansed". They do not tend to practise poopulation control on their own. Borrelia infection is is pretty indiscriminate - it hits everyone, with no prejudices as to colour, religion, sex or nationality.

Lisa

However

quote:
Originally posted by hwlatin:
I have spent alot of time the past several months looking into the political aspects of Lyme disease. Conspriracies aside, the reality is that there really are few answers as to how to sucessfully deal with Lyme and other closely related infections.

Costs associated with treating Lyme and the complications it causes are pretty high. Like everything else this all comes down to money. Drug companies make a mint on the drugs they sell to effectivly aid in the treatment of the symptoms that might or might not be associated with Lyme. The loss of revenue to these companies could essentially bankrupt them.

The government has to know how bad the situation is and I am sure that they have weighed the costs associated with treatment, life expectancy and worker productivity. It would bankrupt this country to have to treat all those infected with Lyme, they know this.

The insurance companies know the liability they have and have lobbied the government hard to limit their liability by supporting limited treatment. Any change would bankrupt the insurance industry, or make insurance so expensive that nobody could afford it.

So what they have done is hide the disease. Essentially allowing those that have the worst cases to fend for themselves and most likely fade away. Until such a time that a true cure comes about, the government will do very little to mandate anything else.

I am sure the same thing went on with Aids, the big difference is that in this country the infection rate is such that the worry over treatment costs is relativly small. I would bet that the infection rate of Lyme is so high and transmission so much easier than anything they have seen before, that the though of treatment costs scares everyone. I am sure they figure that the strong will survive until a cure is found. Almost sounds like another country we knew in the 30 and 40's.

Of course if you believe in conspiracies, then population control would make alot of sense. I have a hard time buying this, but either way expect very little help from the government, matter of fact I think we are wasting our time in even trying.

The only wild card is if we focus all our efforts to get the word out. Our money should go for advertising not lobbying. The public has to be made aware of what is going on. The problem with this is that those who do this probably will be subjected to heavy government scrutiny, I think we have already seen that.

It really bothers me saying this, because for most of my years I have had alot of respect for our government, but lately I am not so sure, and this is coming from an extreme conservative. I actually dont think this is a Left or Right issue, I think it is bigger than that. Somewhere the government by the people for the people has gone away. However this happened, there is only one way it can change and that is at a grass roots level.

This can only be done by educating and getting the people to stand up and make a change. This will have to be done on a large scale to be sucessful, anything less and it will mean the status quo. It is very risky at this point in dealing with politicians, we have seen legislation turn on a dime, and in some cases if inacted will do more harm than good.

The reason being as soon as we get them to move a little bigger forces come in and get them to turn around. This is just my opinion, but do the research it is not hard to see what has been going on.



Posts: 284 | From UK | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
break the chains
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you have begun to see the symptoms of the truth. because you have had great faith and trust in the government it makes it much harder to come around to the truth. i see that already your position has changed greatly. this is what happened to me before i was able to see what was really happening. there are no coincedences. why is it that docotors are handing out long term doxy to anyone with acne who asks, yet the docotor down the street who gives the same drugs for lyme is fighting for his very lisence and livelyhood.


"Drug companies make a mint on the drugs they sell to effectivly aid in the treatment of the symptoms that might or might not be associated with Lyme. The loss of revenue to these companies could essentially bankrupt them."

im gonna have to disagree with you. if you took every prescription that has been issued to anyone with lyme you would be able to fill stadiums i bet. sick people like us are big bank for these companys who certainly arnt giving these drugs away. i myself alone have spent MASSES of money on trying to get better over the years. many people on this board have done the same, some of the ammounts people have spent are astronomical. and i promise you these big companies are friends who are giving drugs away, quite the opposite.
$250 a day plus for iv drugs?

its also very good that you have made the connection with aids. aids, lyme disease, and many cases of other chroinc diseases because they are mostly caused by the same pathogens, mycoplasma.

your government actually has a patent in this labratory pathogen created in 1993. the patent is up on a .gov government site. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/
netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,242,820.WKU.&OS=PN/5,242,820&RS=PN/5,242,820

this patent mentions aids, chronic fatigue, and many others as being the result of mycplasma. im guessing you dont know too much about mycoplasma. i bet you certainly havnt gotten tested for these pathgens that the llmds know about but arnt saying anything to patients. i have posted about mycoplasma on the thread titled "mycoplasma" in this general support forum. please spend some time investigating where this has all come from and what is going on instead of political aspects. the politics is only a symptom of the greater problem and truth. i have learned a whole new world of information since i woke up and it has made my life so much better. i know that might seem strange talking about such a negative thing, but the trails lead out everywhere. when followed unrelated information you can open your mind to is truely liberating.

i was a skeptic too for many months. congradulations on begining the journy to truth.


Posts: 245 | From connecticut, the lyme state | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hwlatin
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I am not a convert by any means, I believe the liberals have as much responsibility in this mess. My point being that I am beginning to believe that uncontrolled capitalism might not be so good either.

I will also say that the only conspiracy that means anything to me is the coverup that is going on. I really dont care how we got here or why we are at this point. I only care that we as a community get the treatment that we need.


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break the chains
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i never said anything about the right or the left. partisanship was created to pit people against each other to create a lot of noise. both bush and kerry are cousins and members of the same secret society. they have both sworn blood oaths to the skull and bones society.
its no coincedence that 42 of the us presients were cousins. they are royal blood from england and europe.
http://msn.ancestry.com/landing/strange/bush4/tree.htm


i am not liberal nor conservative, both are an illusion.

[This message has been edited by break the chains (edited 11 April 2005).]


Posts: 245 | From connecticut, the lyme state | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
break the chains
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"I really dont care how we got here or why we are at this point. I only care that we as a community get the treatment that we need."

you said it....... dont care about the truth of the matter. getting to the bottom of things will help with understand what it is we must treat. truth is one of the most enlightening things possible. because i opened my mind and researched this, i found so much more earth shattering enlightening information. my life has changed for the better by magnatudes. if we are going after the lyme while the mycoplasma is playing a larger roll, we are missing the bigger picture. many lyme antibiotics dont even cover what is often the cause of chronic lyme, mycoplasma. also there are many things you can take to help against mycoplasma.


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Noob
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hwlatin, I've got to agree with you. The medical industry hold a terrible monopoly here in the US and I bet most of congress is being (bribed) convinced of the status quo. I've thought about turning all assets over to relatives and just living at different hospital emergency rooms pleading poverty for effect. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm not up to a lot else nowdays anyway. Wasting time and money going to the average physician (legal drug pusher) isn't really cutting either. If they won't commit, they also aren't reporting to the health depts and the figures won't represent the Lymie. Squeeky wheels, and all that.....
Posts: 40 | From Pacific NW | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hwlatin
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If my insurance company had its way, my IV would have been cut off last week right in the middle of a major Herx. Thank God I am connected. Unfortunatly I know of a little boy who was cut off at 30 days and within days his symptoms returned.

It is so sad to see this happening. There is not a day that goes by that someone I am talking to does not know someone with Lyme or someone that is going through hell trying to get a diagnosis.

There was a point that I wanted to know why this has happened, but that time has long gone. While it is interesting to think about conspiracies, the reality is that we have to play with the hand we are dealt, and right now we are all holding very little.

We are up against some very powerfull forces some we know and some we dont know. It is the ones that we dont know that worries me. But I say it again the only coverup that really matters at the moment is the one that is hiding the disease.

At this point I really dont care anymore about placing blame I just want to see us all get better. It is obvious that the Govenment at this moment is not the answer.

Because of the events of the past week, I spent some time rereading the works of John Paul II. Made me refocus alot. The whole idea of suffering and how it makes us stronger and closer to God. I know we are all not Christians out here, but for me it gave me some peace in the middle of a war that I was fighting.

I have had ups and downs, 4 months ago I was riding a high and it all came crashing down. I have felt better today than I have felt in 8 years. This was the first day that I had absolutly no pain, I cant even remember what that felt like. I was so excited to share it with the two doctors that helped me the most.

The best thing we can all do is help each other. Make sure that no one is alone. We are all that we have at the moment. Those of us that can fight and help those that cant is what we really need now. Getting insurance companies to cover what they should have been covering the whole time. Helping one person, who can then help another is alot more powerful than any legislation our politicians can pass.

It really is the kids that are breaking my heart. I just wish we could make it all go away for them.

[This message has been edited by hwlatin (edited 12 April 2005).]


Posts: 533 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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