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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » URGENT from Pat Smith -Igenex under attack (Page 2)

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Author Topic: URGENT from Pat Smith -Igenex under attack
Tincup
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Originally posted by Martijn:

--Tincup, You should try to be more tolerant to different points of view and stop trying to ridicule people.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will make an appointment first thing next week for an attitude adjustment... just to please those who are driving people here NUTS.

You see.. SOMETIMES the little monster in me sneaks out when I see folks simply jumping in here once in a while JUST to be kicking others.. often they kick anyone and everyone... in one fashion or another.. with no true purpose in mind other than to disrupt.... or just for the heck of it... or just to cause a controversy.

And... isn't there TOO much negativity in the world to ALWAYS be cutting apart others and their efforts and ideas?

Yes.. if you have a comment.. make it. And TRY to use some manners and respect when doing so if you want others to listen... and you don't want to be tossed outta here by the moderators who are now getting this board back under control by booting out the beasts. You know.. the little trolls?

And if someone has a comment to share here, hopefully it will be based on TRUE fact and some accuracy and others will listen... and it won't be shared in the sour puss fashion like what has been going on here for the past few weeks.

In my opinion... if it is NOT based on fact.. it should be labeled- OPINION.

If it isn't either one.. PLEASE do us ALL a favor and label it, "I'm just whining".. so others can scroll by and NOT be bothered.

And.. with all the world's problems..

WHERE, I ask, is that helping hand when it is so needed? It appears if someone is reaching out for help and comes here... their hand is now getting slapped, instead of held. They are seeing nothing but whining and complaining for no good reason.

That is NOT what LymeNet is about.

If folks need to whine and complain with no purpose in mind other than to get their jollies.. there is a sci-fi site where they can do that. And my bet is.. many folks here will GLADLY provide the link so the board here will get cleaned up again ASAP... so the whiners with no good intentions will hit the road... and we can bid them farewell.

--I think Ireallywant2believe is making valid points.

Somehow I just KNEW you were going to agree.

--I, too, doubt it's a good idea that people send letters to the reporter.

Sometimes folks appear here and do nothing more than cut down other peoples efforts and yet do absolutely NOTHING themselves to fix or improve the situation they are laying around whining about. They don't even TRY... they just cry. I say to those in that situation...

Either poop or get off the pot.

Stop whining and be PRO-active if you don't like what is being done by others about the situation. No good comes from always being negative and never being helpful to anyone... and sitting around whining about what OTHERS should be doing. That is LAZY and MISERABLE at best. It helps no one.

If anyone has a better idea.. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear it... and I will certainly consider it... and be as fair as I can when sharing my thoughts on it. BUT..

Until then.. the slams here are just plain old stupid and a HUGE waste of time... and they serve no purpose.

In MY book... you TRY to do what you feel is best to HELP others.

You aren't suppose to sit around and go woe is me, you are wrong, you should have done it MY way, but by the way, I haven't quite figured out a better plan yet... but I just KNOW your's is not good.... duh.

--One of the problems is that you can't control what people are writing.

You are right! And NOT censoring them means they will be getting letters that are from the heart... from REAL people with REAL concerns. NOT form letters. NOT letters from businesses with an agenda. Letters from REAL people who are TRYING the best way they know how to make a difference.

And THEY (NY Times) will have to take it all under consideration once the letters arrive and THEY will have to chose to do the right thing.. or not. We CAN'T control letter writers... and we can't control what they do. And we shouldn't. THIS is the chance to share YOUR opinion.

Soooooooooooooooo..

Either poop or get off the pot.

We can only TRY and hope to get our point across to them... with the big word being, get off yer butt and TRY!

--That's why it would be better if the letters were not send directly to the reporter.

OK.. How do YOU want to do it? Where do YOU think they should go? Should we send them to Mars first? Have you a BETTER plan to share? Or do you just want to condem this plan over and over... like beating a dead horse??

I am open to GOOD POSITIVE suggestions on how to handle this in some other way... and I am sure others would be too. I am especially interested in knowing what else we can do to help in a positive fashion.. besides this action.

I am NOT open to hearing continual whining and complaining from folks who just want to whine and complain and have NO plans to share better ideas.... as they sit back and bash others for their efforts.

Let's hear YOUR plan for fixing the situation.

Not what you WOULDN'T do.... blah blah blah....

But what you WOULD do!

I PROMISE I will take it into consideration if you bother to come up with a good game plan here. My bet is... others would too.

--I don't know how good Igenex is, but I do know that it doesn't use a 2-step-protocol and it reports all important Western Blot bands. That is good!

FINALLY a positive comment. GREAT!!! I was beginning to think that was a lost art around here these days!

Did you bother to share that good comment with the reporter yet... and offer to support IGenex and the effort.. if for NO OTHER REASON than that ONE you just mentioned?

Or is this just a one time comment never to get anywhere but here?

--Bowen's Q-RIBb is questionable to me, because (almost) everyone tests positive, which makes testing superfluous.

Got a better test? Or will we just all sit here and listen to people crying over and over about they think we have no good tests.. and no good labs.. and everything is wrong with everyone but themselves... blah blah blah?

Where's the beef? I mean, where's the plan?

Again... people need to either poop or get off the pot.

Fix it.. or drop it. If you can't fix the situation.. it's simple.

Just move on to one you CAN handle.

That's my opinion. I am NOT a doctor.. but I do try to think positive and try NOT to make people who need our support more miserable in the process.

And I hope the next person who shows up here to post, either has a GOOD alternate plan to share if they don't like this one.. or they are sending their comments to the people in NY.. as requested.


Posts: 20353 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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HA!

I said..

"And I hope the next person who shows up here to post, either has a GOOD alternate plan to share if they don't like this one.. or they are sending their comments to the people in NY.. as requested."

Icantbelieveanyoneelse said..

"I would say that tincup is wrong."

I guess THAT is our new Plan B.

HA!


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ellenluba
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Hi folks,
I just want to let you know that our letters seem to be having an effect. Please write, if you have not yet done so. Also, if you wrote to the reporter only, be sure to fax a copy to the editors (listed in the first post on this thread).

The article was scheduled to be published this Tuesday. So we are really not going to know what effect we are having until then.

Remember that you don't need to give them scientific facts. The scientists can do that.

We just need to give them our experience as patients. We were all either first diagnosed by Igenex or know many. many people who were AND are getting better as a result of the Lyme treatment.

All we are asking the paper to do is to make sure that the experience of thousands of patients are reported along with the CDC point of view.

Be sure to keep copies of letters you write. I think we will be doing a lot of writing in the next weeks.

We are really generally under assault right now. We had a victory in NY, stuff happening in MA and PA, and a federal billl in the legislature. So we are attracting a lot of gunfire.

Our patient letters are an essential part of stopping this assault.

And we Lyme patients are proving ourselves equal to this fight.
Ellen



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breathwork
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Thank you for the update, Ellen!
Posts: 1062 | From CA USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ireallywant2believe
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It just so happens that I did offer an alternate plan.

I said several times I think that people ought to post their experiences with diagnosis and testing and if that includes positive comments about Igenex, great.

And then LDF or lda or Igenex or whoever ought to forward the threads to the attention of the reporter.

I think that's much better than patients writing directly to the reporter claiming to know what he's going to say before he's said and definitely better than letters bashing the reporter or the NY Times.

Your comments about bashing other people don't apply to me. I haven't done it. I'm offering positive suggestions.

I've been bashed and so have some others here.

And I think that is divisive.

No one is required to agree that my suggestions are great. But no one's required to think that ellen or lda's suggestions are great either.

The notion of everyone writing to try to kill a story is really a bad one. It smacks of prior restraint and believe me journalists don't like that nor do they like being told what to think write or how to do their jobs. Just not a smart approach.

I happen to think my idea is better. You don't have to agree. That's okay. But is it really necessary to make it personal?


quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
HA!

I said..

"And I hope the next person who shows up here to post, either has a GOOD alternate plan to share if they don't like this one.. or they are sending their comments to the people in NY.. as requested."

Icantbelieveanyoneelse said..

"I would say that tincup is wrong."

I guess THAT is our new Plan B.

HA!



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Ireallywant2believe
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I said that you were wrong when you said people remembered a tickbite. Most people don't.

But I guess it served your point more to take that out of context.

And to ignore the positive suggestions I did put forward.


quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
HA!

I said..

"And I hope the next person who shows up here to post, either has a GOOD alternate plan to share if they don't like this one.. or they are sending their comments to the people in NY.. as requested."

Icantbelieveanyoneelse said..

"I would say that tincup is wrong."

I guess THAT is our new Plan B.

HA!



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Ireallywant2believe
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The letters seem to be having an effect?

How do you know?

Is the reporter and the editor and the New York times giving you updates on the story they're writing?

That would be a first in journalistic history.

Seriously.

quote:
Originally posted by ellenluba:
Hi folks,
I just want to let you know that our letters seem to be having an effect. Please write, if you have not yet done so. Also, if you wrote to the reporter only, be sure to fax a copy to the editors (listed in the first post on this thread).

The article was scheduled to be published this Tuesday. So we are really not going to know what effect we are having until then.

Remember that you don't need to give them scientific facts. The scientists can do that.

We just need to give them our experience as patients. We were all either first diagnosed by Igenex or know many. many people who were AND are getting better as a result of the Lyme treatment.

All we are asking the paper to do is to make sure that the experience of thousands of patients are reported along with the CDC point of view.

Be sure to keep copies of letters you write. I think we will be doing a lot of writing in the next weeks.

We are really generally under assault right now. We had a victory in NY, stuff happening in MA and PA, and a federal billl in the legislature. So we are attracting a lot of gunfire.

Our patient letters are an essential part of stopping this assault.

And we Lyme patients are proving ourselves equal to this fight.
Ellen



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riversinger
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Member # 4851

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Ellen, thanks for letting us know how things are going!

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]


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Caryn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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i just posted the Intellgencer article where kelly , chief of medicine Abinton hospital and his partner roger neiman are quoted and put down our drs who are willing to give us the long term treatment we need and treat the coinfections we often have.

it is under my post "what i have can help IgeneX" my story is long, so if you just want to read the article, go down to just below where i edited the post on July 10. i will post my full records from nieman on a reply to that post.

i had seen nieman 6 mos before that article came out and had full blown Lyme as well as babesia at the time of the visit, along with the recurring rash on my foot from the '96 infection and he refused treatment.

i posted my long story above that so it may get very tedious to read, but if you scroll down to where it says i edited the post, i posted the Intellegencer article there.

here is what nieman had to say in MY medical records about dr G, the competant dr who diagnosed me with Lyme disease in early 1999, after 8 yrs and 4 untreated infections.:

"At her father-in-law's urging, she saw a physician in Newtown who is a general practitioner who is also a self described expert in Lyme disease. He treated her with a variety of antibiotics including azithromycin, doxycycline and Biaxin.

She also saw another so-called expert in Lyme disease who treated her with a course of six weeks of intrvenious rocephin. However, she still had other problems, particularly including pain in her arms. She continues to see the "Lyme expert" in Newtown and had testing done at a laboratory in California. This laboratory did a non-FDA approved test, the "Lyme urinary antegen test," which is of no known scientific value.

On the basis of these tests he told her that she did indeed have Lyme disease as he had told her previously. She continues to see other physicians including a neurologist and ultimately was sent to our office."
---------------

i will type the whole records in my post regarding helping Igenex with my photos and records. two weeks after this appt, i tested pos by pcr of my spinal fluid from BBI labs. i also have pos pcr's now from MDL and Quest. i have a CDC pos Igm western blot ( but still did not qualify to take part in the NIH study dr Fallon was doing.)

i also, when a dr finnally did the western blot for babesia from MDL, both Igm and Igg robustly pos. it was so obvious i was acutely ill with Lyme and babesia when i saw dr G and even after some treatment still had obvious active infection. i had not been treated for babeisa, or even tested for it.

dr G never represented himself to me a a "Lyme expert". he was reccommended by other lyme patients who were helped by him, and before he got burned by area drs and insurence co's, he used to advertise that he treated lyme and took patients right away. ( not making them wait two months and get sicker and sicker in the mean time like the upenn dr did. and then waiting another month before treating.)

dr G also did not dx me with Lyme on my first visit. he emphasized the need for me to have the LUAT test done at IgeneX labs. the UPENN dr had lead me to believe he had done the LUAT test, but did not have me send a kit myself to IgeneX or follow the protocol of the IgeneX test.

only after the LUAT came back highly highly pos did Dr G tell me that i had acute, late stage lyme disease. whatever Lyme test the upenn drs initially did was pretty useless. it came back neg despite me being so obvious and seriously ill. i think it was an IFA.

i later figured out that upenn dr never did any form of the LUAT what-so-ever. just lead me to believe that he did and lied and said the LUAT had come back neg also, thereby reinforcing that i did not have lyme.

dr G. had me on zithromax only for a few days for the purpose of helping the LUAT to detect lyme antigens. his partner put me on doxycycline, usually the first choice to treat as it will kill the erlichia too if present.

my neuro symptoms were so bad that dr G put me on Biaxin which partially brought my brain back. the neuro he sent me too did not back up his lyme dx, so dr G sent me to a "certified" infectious disease specialist, not another "so-called lyme expert" as nieman wrote in my recoreds. an i.d. specialist just like him.

the i.d. specialist agreed that i had a severe case of neuro lyme when i first saw him and he immeadiately put me on i.v. rocephin. when after 6 wks blue cross/ blue shield would not pay for further i.v. treatment, the i.d. specialist exploded at me , screaming that no one has lyme anymore after 6 wks i.v.. the severe pain and severe symptoms were "in my head". and literally threw my LUAT results in the air calling them useless!

and he sent me to church to get down on my knees and pray. he did give me a script for more biaxin, when crying in pain, i knew i was still VERY sick and unable to function. i had two small children. who i later learned have lyme also.

after that, dr G was unable to treat me as the neuro and the i.d. specialist would not support his dx, the "great" upenn drs found "nothing" neuro wrong and to further treat me would likely lead to his being charged with "over diagnosing and overtreating". so he gave me a list of drs.

most did not take insurence, but the neuro on the list did so i went to him. he for the most part did not treat me, did not test for babs even though i stronly suspected it. spring '2000, i am pretty sure is when i found photos of me with the textbook bullseye rash dating back as far as sept '91 on our vacation to Nantucket Island.

the neuro did not know i was going to see nieman and just before, had done a spinal tap and had my spinal fluid tested by pcr and it came back pos. the results from that pos pcr of my spinal tap i recieved just two weeks AFTER seeing nieman and him calling the LUAT, my only pos up til then "of no known scientific value".

it would be another 6 mos after the pos pcr of spinal fluid before BC/BS would OK a few more weeks of rocephin and then cut off my treatment again leaving me feel hopeless.

i was also seeing Dr Sergott at Wills eye hospital. Dr Sergott is not well educated about lyme, never-the-less, he is a good eye doctor and did the exam seriously instead of just laughing and not really doing an exam as upenn neuro-opt did. upenn found "nothing" neuro wrong, but dr Sergott did find that i was having trouble controlling my eye muscles and reccomended further treatment for my chronic neuro lyme disease.

i had also seen a sleep specialist who dr G sent me to and his partner who did not help me and put damaging stuff in my records.

Dr G also sent me to a rhuemie , who lets just say was creepy, and i had a very good reason not to go back to him.

i needed to see other specialists, but was not. i still need a good G.I specialist, OB/GYN and general practitioner. as you can see, i need to be very careful who i go to as many drs just abused me, refused medical care and put lies in my records to interfere with me getting med treatment in the future.

i ended up at nieman's office, because a dr friend of my in-laws claimed for him to be "the best" lyme disease expert in the area and i was still suffering so badly. you would not leave an animal in that condition. i think we know different now. and nieman did represent himself to me as a "lyme expert".

i also, after a dr finnally ordered the brain spect scan at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital in NYC, have an abnormal brain spect scan showing blood hypoprofusion, white matter lesions, and encephalopathy consistent with Lyme encephalitis.

and, after learning from this website from another woman just a few yrs older than me, that many woman who have been ill and untreated for late stage lyme for yrs go on to suffer bone deterioration and she was just dx with severe osteoporsis and was only 44.

this was a few yrs ago. because of how loudly my bones cracked and how little i had been able to eat so little, i had asked the upenn internest to do a bone scan. he refused and laughed and said i was much too young and would not order the test.

well, when a dr finnally did do the bone scan it revealed severe osteopenia. there are drugs to stop and even reverse bone loss. upenn could have caught this several yrs earlier, if they were as knowlegable about lyme as they alleged to be.

[This message has been edited by Caryn (edited 11 July 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Caryn (edited 11 July 2005).]


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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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Well looky here!

Looks like your efforts worked and turn the tides!

The NY Times has decided to KILL the article!

GREAT JOB YOU GUYS!!!!

I am so tickled. See what we CAN do when we work together and TRY!

Here is a post to share more news about the great job you did!

Someone else wants to thank you for your efforts!


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=1&SUBMIT=Go

YIPPEE!!!!


Posts: 20353 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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