posted
Here is the website which quotes pertinent Congressional Record material. About 2/3 of the way down, start reading at the letter from CDC to Senator Reigle. It lists all the agents sent and carried away to Iraq. No borrelia are on this list.
treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by lou: Here is the website which quotes pertinent Congressional Record material. About 2/3 of the way down, start reading at the letter from CDC to Senator Reigle. It lists all the agents sent and carried away to Iraq. No borrelia are on this list.
Per our previous conversation, after reviewing the available licensing records of the Bureau of Export Administration, U.S. Department of Commerce, related to biological materials exported to the government of Iraq, additional information identifying the genus species, and strain or origin -if known- of the following viruses, bacteria, fungi, and protozoa for which export licenses were granted is requested.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Why would these people want lyme when they have plague and anthrax?
People who want to believe this cannot be convinced it isn't true. They have become disillusioned with the gov't and public health establishment, and will now believe anything detrimental that is alleged. This is predictable, I guess, when public trust is lost in gov't institutions.
If you like reading this kind of stuff, here is more:
[ 17. January 2006, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: lou ]
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Greatcod
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I believe that every available pathogen was evaluated for military (both defensive and offensive) use in the Cold War. Any pathogen that had an effect on American troops, as several had in WWII, certainly was looked at. That's the mindset, that's the job. Whether any was Bb sent to Iraq, I have no idea.
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treepatrol
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From here link Header: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENTIAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON GULF WAR VETERANS' ILLNESSES
282
1 that doctrine suggests that you mix together different 2 chemicals, mix together different biologicals and use them 3 as a cocktail. If, in fact, that happened, that would 4 explain some of the problems we have in identifying some 5 of these agents positively in suggesting the appropriate 6 therapies. Well, we are going to follow through on some 7 of these now and we are going to develop the tests 8 necessary to do this. 9 Now, I have heard -- in fact, I was under 10 criticism from people in the Pentagon. They indicated the 11 Iraqis didn't have the capability to weaponize mycoplasma 12 or to use it as an offensive weapon. And I disagree with 13 that. There was a very talented individual, Jawad Al- 14 Aubaidi, who was head of the mycoplasma unit. In fact, he 15 was a world-renowned mycoplasma expert. 16 He was trained at Plum Island in the United 17 States, which was our USDA isolation facility. He was 18 president of Al-Quadsia University and he was also the 19 founder of the University of Baghdad mycoplasma unit 20 approximately 20 years ago, so this is a unit that has 21 been very active in Baghdad for some time. 22 They also had a very large number of personnel
283 1 for this unit, which is pretty surprising for a country 2 like Iraq unless they were going to use this for some 3 other use, such as chemical biological warfare. 4 My conclusions. We have identified invasive 5 mycoplasmas in approximately one-half of a nonscientific 6 selection of veterans of Desert Storm that have Gulf War 7 Illness using gene tracking and forensic PCR. Now, 8 although there has been a lot of argument that we are not 9 using scientific methods, basically we depend upon sick 10 soldiers and their -- sick veterans and their family 11 members to come to us.
Just like the MFI issue (Mycoplasma Fermentans Incognitus Strain), I for one was not satisfied with the bogus response from the DSHD on my questions asked. It was weaponized at both Plum Island & Fort Detrich years prior to the Gulf War. The Iraqi scientist who graduated from Cornell University to head up that program at Plum Island, Dr. Jawad Al Aubaidi, was assassinated by the Mossad years later, while "apparently changing a flat tire".
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I give up. This was an attempt to find out whether there was any truth in the idea (fixation) that lymies have: lyme was/is weaponized.
Claims were made that the CDC or NIH admitted this on their website. People have said that lyme was sent to Saddam. Neither of these appear to me to be true. In the first case, an ambiguous statement was misinterpreted. In the second case, when I provided the list from the Congressional Record, the response I got here and elsewhere was to change the subject to other possible govt misdeeds, like the Tuskegee experiment and GW illness. What does this have to do with the question of whether lyme was weaponized. Nothing.
I agree that the govt has goofed on GW. Seems to me there might be multiple factors in these illnesses, which the vets themselves believe. Vaccines are suspected, mycoplasma, exposure to hazardous agents, oil fire fumes, etc, etc. But this only shows the govt goofs on handling diseases, not that lyme was given to Saddam.
People who like the mycoplasma story frequently say that the Lo patent on this microbe proves it was weaponized. Pure bunk. Does not prove it, and is said by people who have no science background and don't understand that a lot of living things are now patented with no inventing required. Supreme Ct said OK (they were wrong, it is not OK). This is why there was a race to post human genome results on internet immediately, so no one could patent.
But I am giving up on trying to get lymies to think straight on these issues, or have facts. Doesn't anyone realize that being sloppy about evidence and careless with facts makes us no better than the steerites? The Worm, the Dumpster, the BumSteere, the Seagull, all these people bend the truth, ignore the evidence. If we want truth to prevail, we have to practice it ourselves. The fact that we are the damaged parties makes truth more important.
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Linda LD
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I skipped some posts--but my doc says that the sand fleas over there have some nasty sprocket...
L
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treepatrol
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What was posted here that started this. Here is the website which quotes pertinent Congressional Record material. About 2/3 of the way down, start reading at the letter from CDC to Senator Reigle. It lists all the agents sent and carried away to Iraq. No borrelia are on this list. ___________________________ __________________________ __________________________ The last post from Lou
I give up. This was an attempt to find out whether there was any truth in the idea (fixation) that lymies have: lyme was/is weaponized.
Claims were made that the CDC or NIH admitted this on their website. People have said that lyme was sent to Saddam. Neither of these appear to me to be true. In the first case, an ambiguous statement was misinterpreted. In the second case, when I provided the list from the Congressional Record, the response I got here and elsewhere was to change the subject to other possible govt misdeeds, like the Tuskegee experiment and GW illness. What does this have to do with the question of whether lyme was weaponized.
So do I understand you right now lou.
Me:Is this your question Lou ::: Lyme was it weponized?
:Claims were made that the CDC or NIH admitted this on their website.: Oh I never saw that me.
Lou: People who like the mycoplasma story frequently say that the Lo patent on this microbe proves it was weaponized. Pure bunk. Does not prove it, and is said by people who have no science background and don't understand that a lot of living things are now patented with no inventing required.
Me: I understand that lou that things are pateneded -NOW- there covering ther butts.
Lou to get absolute truth to prove it I would have to have been there.
Hey I cant see wind but I know its there by what it does.
I didnt understand your question before I understand now I think.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I am looking for the truth. But you and others have already made up your mind and don't want to be confused by facts.
It is amazing anyone would assume that looking for the truth puts me in the other camp. Is this lyme paranoia, or are people just incapable of thinking straight?
I get so disgusted with this kind of accusation. Lyme has destroyed my life. The current mess is not going to be improved with lymies making claims that aren't true. Not going to say anything else on this subject, it is pointless to try to carry on an intelligent discussion on this subject here. You are making it easy for the other camp to discredit everything we say.
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treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by lou: I am looking for the truth. But you and others have already made up your mind and don't want to be confused by facts.
It is amazing anyone would assume that looking for the truth puts me in the other camp. Is this lyme paranoia, or are people just incapable of thinking straight?
Iam looking for truth too Lou but sometimes it may be a conglomerate of facts gleaned from many sources some good some not.
Thats the crux isnt it?
I just wish we could nail it down with absolute certainity
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I think that a biowar cover-up is simply one plausable explanation for the Lyme debacle. Among which are A Legitimate MedSci controversy One man's massive ego
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Greatcod
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Greed by individuals and institutions for which they work A scheme driven by insurance companies to limit their costs A biowar escape cover-up All of the above None of the above I really don't care, I just want to get better. All of which are reasonable positions for someone to take,IMO. Its simply a question of piling up information to make your case. Free thought, and all that.
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treepatrol
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Lou :I think dosent want to discuss theory he wants facts black and white period.
If I understood him right. If Iam wrong I apologize Lou
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Boomerang
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I agree with Lou...
Seems ridiculous to think Lyme bacteria would be used......when things like anthrax would be much more effective.
I hope these wacky theories don't hurt the true attention Lyme deserves.
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Andie333
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Lou and others,
Back in November, the NIH was discussed by people on this site. Here's the thread, along with a quote that was ostensibly taken from the NIH site itself.
From the responses to the original quote, it seems several others on this board followed that link and read the same quote.
If you follow the link now, you will see that it is slightly different than it was when it was quoted here on Lymenet. Two words have been removed from the list of diseases -- Lyme Disease.
The site notes that it was edited on December 1, 2005, literally days after the Lymenet thread.
I'm not sure this proves anything, but I found it very interesting, especially in light of what Loco mentioned -- the CDC site also changing iits Lyme information since I joined this board in May.
The maddening part of this for me is that it's all smoke and no fire. If, as Tree says, we're all walking (or limping) around as biomedical(warfare) experiments, there is probably no way of actually confirming this.
Where's our Deep Throat?
Andie
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treepatrol
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This is whats there now at NIAID site.
NIAID ________ Are NIAID scientists already studying potential agents of bioterrorism? Even before the current emphasis on biodefense, NIAID scientists had been studying organisms that cause a variety of infectious diseases. Examples of diseases caused by these organisms include plague, rabies, tick-borne encephalitis, West Nile virus disease, influenza, anthrax infection, Ebola virus hemorrhagic fever, HIV, tuberculosis, transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, and Q fever. Potentially, some of these microbes also could be used as agents of bioterrorism. All of this work has been carried out in either the Maryland or Montana laboratories with required safety measures in place. {Modified 12/1/05}this was the modified by them.
___________________________________ _________________________________ _________________________________ The original is here. What was there. From here: IndyLink
"SAN ANTONIO (AP) - The $10.6 million Margaret Batts Tobin Laboratory Building will provide a 22,000-square-foot facility to study such diseases as anthrax, tularemia, cholera, lyme disease, desert valley fever and other parasitic and fungal diseases. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention identified these diseases as potential bioterrorism agents.".
I googled it and used the cache type thats why highlighted in the second link.
Its amazing I can google something that was said along time ago and its still there but not this one its seems removed as if never said.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
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Gotcha I used the ******* ******* I didnt put it in lest it be removed from there.
Will the new facility pose any threat to the local community? A properly constructed and properly operated BSL-3 and BSL-4 facility poses no threat to the local community. There are no recorded incidents involving community contamination from any of the existing BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities.
Are NIAID scientists already studying potential agents of bioterrorism? Even before the current emphasis on biodefense, NIAID scientists had been studying organisms that cause a variety of infectious diseases. Potentially, some of these microbes also could be used as agents of bioterrorism. Examples of diseases caused by these agents include plague, Lyme disease, rabies, tick-borne encephalitis, West Nile virus disease, influenza, anthrax infection, Ebola virus hemorrhagic fever, HIV, tuberculosis, transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, and Q fever. All of this work has been carried out in either the Maryland or Montana laboratories with required safety measures in place.
Will the research carried out in the new facility be kept secret? The ultimate goal of this research program is to provide information that will guide the development of diagnostics, treatments, and vaccines to protect civilians against agents of bioterrorism. Although safety and security regulations will limit access to certain kinds of information, it is anticipated that the results of all research carried out in the facility will be published and communicated in the same manner as other NIH research results.
When will construction of the new facility be completed? Preliminary planning for the facility has been completed; the project is now in design development. An Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is being prepared to address possible environmental impacts of the project. The design should be finished within one year.
No construction can begin until the EIS process is completed. Groundbreaking is estimated to occur in mid to late 2004. Construction may take up to two years. _________________
The only thing are the bullet numbers for each one . in the process of coping lost them original 10 contained the lyme referance.
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treepatrol
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The whole thing:
__________________________________
February 2004
An Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick, Maryland Questions and Answers Overview
The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a component of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), plays a key role in the nation's biomedical research program. NIAID conducts and supports research to understand, treat, and ultimately prevent the myriad infectious, immunologic, and allergic diseases that threaten hundreds of millions of people worldwide. NIAID's Division of Intramural Research is known as a state-of-the-art research enterprise carried out by world-class scientists on campuses in Bethesda and Rockville, Maryland, and in Hamilton, Montana.
Because of NIAID's long-standing expertise in research on emerging infectious diseases, the Institute has been mandated by the President to play a leading role in the nation's fight against bioterrorism. NIAID is expanding its research programs to spearhead the development of new and improved diagnostics, treatments, and vaccines for diseases caused by naturally occurring infectious agents as well as microbes that may be intentionally released into a civilian population.
For that research to be carried out safely, NIH plans to construct a new Integrated Research Facility for NIAID's biodefense program on the grounds of Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland. NIAID is committed to ensuring that its employees work in the safest possible laboratories, and that these laboratories also reduce to the maximal extent possible any potential risks to the surrounding community. The laboratories will employ the highest safety standards recommended for the research proposed to be conducted there, standards known as Biosafety Levels 3 and 4 (BSL-3 and BSL-4), to prevent scientists and the environment from being exposed to microorganisms. Similar agents have been studied for decades at facilities of the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick. The new facility will comply with stringent Federal and state regulations for construction, use, security, inspection, and certification.
Below are answers to some frequently asked questions about the proposed construction and operation of this new Integrated Research Facility.
What type of facility is being planned? The Integrated Research Facility is a 100,000-square-foot building housing laboratory space for animal research, radiology equipment, mechanical space, and a waste-handling area. There will be BSL-2 and BSL-3 laboratory suites similar to those in existing NIAID laboratories. In addition, there will be a suite of laboratories designed to operate at BSL-4 that will occupy a small portion of the building. More details will be available once the design phase begins.
What do the BSL numbers mean? See the following table.
Biosafety Level Agents Practices Safety Equipment Facilities BSL-1 These agents are not generally associated with disease in healthy people Good microbiological practice Hand washing No eating, drinking or gum chewing in the laboratory Pipeting devices- mouth pipeting is prohibited
BSL-2 These agents are associated with human disease Limited lab access Most work may be performed on a bench top Biohazard warning signs "Sharps" precautions Biosafety manual defining any needed waste decontamination or medical surveillance policies Class I or II Biological Safety Cabinets (BSCs) or other physical containment devices Lab coats, gloves, face protection, as needed Open bench-top sink for hand washing is required Autoclave available
BSL-3 These agents: Are associated with human disease and cause illness by spreading through the air (aerosol) Cause diseases that may have serious or lethal consequences BSL-2 practice plus Controlled access Decontamination of all waste Decontamination of lab clothing before laundering Class I or II Biological Safety Cabinets (BSCs) or other physical containment devices Protective lab clothing, gloves, respiratory protection as needed BSL-2 plus Physical separation from access corridors Self-closing, double-door access Exhaust air is not recirculated Negative airflow into laboratory Design includes back-up/redundant systems
BSL-4 These agents: Are associated with human disease and cause illness by spreading through the air (aerosol) or have an unknown cause of transmission; Cause diseases that are usually life-threatening; BSL-3 practices plus Clothing change before entering Shower on exit All material decontaminated on exit from facility All procedures conducted in Class III BSCs or Class I or II BSCs in combination with full-body, air-supplied, positive- pressure personnel suit BSL-3 plus Separate building or isolated zone Dedicated supply and exhaust, vacuum, and decontamination systems Design includes back-up/redundant systems Other requirements outlined in NIH/CDC publication "Biosafety in Microbiological and Biomedical Laboratories"*
How many other research facilities in the U.S. have BSL-3 or BSL-4 laboratories? Most facilities in the U.S. with infectious disease research programs have BSL-3 laboratories. In addition, many hospitals have areas that can be operated at this level; these areas are used for isolating patients with highly contagious diseases.
BSL-4 labs have the most stringent safety and security requirements. There are currently only four operational BSL-4 laboratory suites in the United States: at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta; at the United States Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick in Frederick, MD; at the Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research in San Antonio; and at the University of Texas at Galveston. A small BSL-4 facility exists on the NIH campus in Bethesda, MD, but it is currently being operated only at a BSL-3 level for research on important emerging infectious diseases.
Why is this NIAID facility needed at Fort Detrick? Having this facility on Fort Detrick enhances NIAID efforts to expand its biodefense research agenda by capitalizing on the already well-established cooperation between NIAID and USAMRIID scientists. The proximity at Fort Detrick to researchers with expertise in infectious diseases related to biodefense and other emerging infections, as well as the nearby USAMRIID facilities, will provide a critical part of the foundation for the research and development program that is NIAID's mandate. In addition, the location at Fort Detrick will minimize replication of costly support services. The location for the proposed Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick was approved specifically for these reasons.
What precautions are being taken to ensure the facility is safe from intrusion by outsiders? The facility will be constructed within a secured perimeter, with the required setback distance from any unscreened vehicles. In addition, there will be extra security for the areas of BSL-3 and BSL-4 research within the facility. New lighting, observation cameras, and card-reader systems will be installed, and additional measures will be implemented in the BSL-3 and BSL-4 laboratories. Multiple levels of security devices will be installed throughout the new facility.
What precautions are in place for transporting infectious materials to and from the laboratories? There are specific Government regulations for transportation of infectious materials. Infectious materials are safely transported worldwide on a daily basis under these regulations.
What certification and oversight systems will be in place? NIH's Division of Safety will be closely involved in the planning, design, and operation of the new facility. In addition, the Division reviews and approves all proposed protocols and standard operating procedures for any BSL-3 or BSL-4 laboratory operated by NIAID prior to its use. A stringent approval process will take place before any experiment can begin in the facility.
Has there ever been an accident at a BSL-3 or BSL-4 facility? No. A number of BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities have operated safely in the United States for 30 years. Rare accidents such as needlesticks may cause exposure of laboratory staff; immediate treatment of any person so exposed avoids any danger to other workers or to the community.
Will the new facility pose any threat to the local community? A properly constructed and properly operated BSL-3 and BSL-4 facility poses no threat to the local community. There are no recorded incidents involving community contamination from any of the existing BSL-3 and BSL-4 facilities.
Are NIAID scientists already studying potential agents of bioterrorism? Even before the current emphasis on biodefense, NIAID scientists had been studying organisms that cause a variety of infectious diseases. Potentially, some of these microbes also could be used as agents of bioterrorism. Examples of diseases caused by these agents include plague, Lyme disease, rabies, tick-borne encephalitis, West Nile virus disease, influenza, anthrax infection, Ebola virus hemorrhagic fever, HIV, tuberculosis, transmissible spongiform encephalopathies, and Q fever. All of this work has been carried out in either the Maryland or Montana laboratories with required safety measures in place.
Will the research carried out in the new facility be kept secret? The ultimate goal of this research program is to provide information that will guide the development of diagnostics, treatments, and vaccines to protect civilians against agents of bioterrorism. Although safety and security regulations will limit access to certain kinds of information, it is anticipated that the results of all research carried out in the facility will be published and communicated in the same manner as other NIH research results.
When will construction of the new facility be completed? Preliminary planning for the facility has been completed; the project is now in design development. An Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is being prepared to address possible environmental impacts of the project. The design should be finished within one year.
No construction can begin until the EIS process is completed. Groundbreaking is estimated to occur in mid to late 2004. Construction may take up to two years.
How much will the new facility cost? The budget includes $105 million for planning, design, construction, and related costs for the Integrated Research Facility.
How many people will work in the facility? Until the design process is complete, it is not known exactly how many persons will work in the facility. It is estimated that approximately 100 people will staff the facility.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
It isn't necessary that Lyme be a refined biowar pathogen... it may be that they were just looking at for possible development, or that it it was the ticks they were looking at in a vector dispersion experiment. On the "Whacky Theory" notion. "Lab 257" made the NY Times best seller list. Endorsed on its back cover by Mario Coumo and Lowell Weicker. Hardly kooks.
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lymeloco
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Montana community soon will be home to a biodefense lab By Adam Tanner, Reuters | September 18, 2005
HAMILTON, Mont. -- Montana's Bitterroot Valley has long offered a respite from the modern world, an area of small-town values with a thriving log cabin business and rivers beloved by fishermen.
Globe front page | Boston.com Sign up for: Globe Headlines e-mail | Breaking News Alerts The bucolic setting between two mountain ranges in western Montana will soon host one of the nation's few biowarfare defense labs, a controversial $66.5 million building where scientists will research dangerous pathogens in an effort to stem deadly attacks.
''It's an unfortunate mission, but unfortunately it's a necessity, especially after 9/11," said Joe Petrusaitis, the mayor of this city of about 4,400 residents. ''The community mostly supported it, but we did have detractors."
Scientists came to the Bitterroot Valley early in the 20th century to study the outbreak of an often fatal disease that was named Rocky Mountain spotted fever.
In 1928, some residents sued to prevent the building of what became Rocky Mountain Laboratories. To calm fears, the lab agreed to build a long-since demolished and never-used moat around its buildings to keep disease-carrying ticks in check.
In later years, it worked on numerous infectious diseases, including Lyme disease and prion diseases, a type of disease that includes mad cow disease. It is now part of the network of US infectious disease labs with 250 workers.
With white-coated scientists behind closed doors, the Rocky Mountain Lab created a mysterious aura, perhaps heightened by a suspicion of government strong in much of the West.
''Until around 2000, the lab did not do as good a job at promoting its research program as it does now," said Marshall Bloom, who became lab director in 2002. ''In the local community, there was a lot of concern."
That concern intensified with the announcement of biodefense plans that would involve staff wearing space-age contamination suits in airtight labs. The new facility should be ready next year, with biodefense work scheduled for 2007.
''It is a logical extension of what had gone on here virtually 100 years," Bloom said.
The United States unilaterally renounced biological weapons in 1969, a commitment fixed by treaty in 1972.
The Clinton administration boosted germ warfare defenses in the late 1990s. Since 2001, Washington has spent billions on fighting germs such as anthrax and plague, and has announced plans to add to the nation's four existing Biosafety Level 4 biodefense facilities. In Boston, plans for a high-security lab at Boston University Medical Center have met similar opposition.
The Rocky Mountain Labs would become the only such facility in the West, an expansion that prompted a lawsuit seeking to block its construction.
''Folks were concerned about the lab being some sort of target of bioterrorism," said Alexandra Gorman, science director at Women's Voices for the Earth. ''People were concerned about agents of bioterrorism that they were working on in the lab getting out into the community."
Mary Wulff of the Coalition for a Safe Lab said the lab once failed to account for a bag of radioactive waste and had dumped chemicals into a nearby landfill in the 1980s. ''The BL-4 [Biosafety Level 4] building boom was a knee-jerk reaction by our government after 9/11," she said.
Bloom declined to say whether he thought Washington was overreacting to bioterrorism, but said anthrax and viruses that occur in nature should be studied.
''If you look at the list of all the causes of emerging and re-emerging disease . . . the intentional introduction of infectious disease is pretty low down on the list," he said.
Some specialists also caution that biodefense is similar to banned offensive bioweapons research. ''We have to understand what the virus's tricks are . . . to treat or defend against it," Bloom said.
� Copyright 2005 Globe Newspaper Company.
Opponents vow fight against BU biolab By Christine MacDonald, Globe Correspondent | February 17, 2005
Opponents of Boston University's proposed bioterrorism laboratory vowed last night to keep building momentum against the high-security lab at the first public forum since news broke that researchers accidentally exposed themselves to an infectious agent at another BU lab.
ADVERTISEMENT The risk ''is real now," said Klare Allen, coordinator of the Safety Net, a Roxbury community group spearheading opposition to the $128 million facility that Boston University Medical Center hopes to build with federal funding on its South End campus.
''We've gotten more people to come to our meetings and write their elected officials," she said.
Supporters of the Biosafety Level 4 lab -- including BU, Mayor Thomas M. Menino, and state officials -- say the lab will aid in the fight against terrorism, because researchers there will develop defenses against biological weapons attacks.
But opponents at the Harriet Tubman House yesterday, blocks from the university's medical campus, said people living near the lab could be accidentally infected. They were also skeptical about assertions that the facility will generate jobs and keep the country safe from terrorists.
''No laboratory is fail-safe," said Daniel Goodenough, a Harvard Medical School biologist who raised concerns that stringent safety measures could become increasingly lax as work with some of the world's most deadly organisms becomes routine.
''This facility is going to be there for 30 years or longer," he said. ''So we are talking about our children, not just us. Ten years from now, will the real, careful monitoring be going on?"
The forum was organized by the Coalition to Stop the Bioterrorism Lab, Safety Net, and the Roxbury group Alternatives for Community and the Environment. Councilor at Large Maura Hennigan and state Representative Gloria L. Fox also spoke against the lab last night.
''We all should be angry, and we all should get busy" working against the lab, said Fox, the coauthor of a measure that calls for a moratorium on Biosafety Level 4 labs until the state institutes safety regulations.
No one spoke in favor of the facility.
About 100 people turned out at the forum, which organizers said was more than those who attended a similar forum last month. That event was held before news broke that three BU researchers were accidentally infected in November with tularemia, a potentially lethal bacterium, while working in a lower-security lab on the BU medical campus. Scientists at the proposed lab would study deadly organisms such as Ebola and anthrax.
BU, city, and state officials, who learned of the exposures in November, publicly acknowledged them last month after media inquiries. Menino and the Boston Public Health Commission have said there was no need to inform the public at the time because tularemia cannot be transmitted from person to person and posed no threat to the public.
BU, the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration investigated the incident after the news broke. The news also prompted state officials to weigh whether to reopen the environmental review process.
Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, January 22, 2005; Page A03
BOSTON, Jan. 21 -- The revelation this week that a laboratory slip-up led three Boston University scientists to become infected with tularemia, a flulike disease sometimes referred to as "rabbit fever," has fueled criticism of a plan to build a state-of-the-art research lab to study some of the world's most lethal germs in Boston's South End.
The project, which is expected to bring more than $1.6 billion in grants and other funding to the city, has generated intense community opposition in the two years since Boston Medical Center began trying to persuade the federal government to site the project here.
_____More About Smallpox_____
* Bioterrorism War Game Shows Lack Of Readiness (The Washington Post, Jan 15, 2005) * Technical Hurdles Separate Terrorists From Biowarfare (The Washington Post, Dec 30, 2004) * Washington State Bridge Project Yields Long-Forgotten Graves (The Washington Post, Dec 19, 2004)
Slated for groundbreaking later this year, it would be one of just a handful of full-scale Bio-safety Level 4 (BSL-4) laboratories in the country -- a classification that would permit research on diseases such as anthrax, Ebola and the plague. The lab would be located in a more densely populated neighborhood than the others, including those in San Antonio, Atlanta and Frederick, Md.
The Boston Globe reported Wednesday that two researchers became sick in May with a mysterious illness that was later diagnosed as tularemia and that a third case emerged in September. The incidents occurred when the scientists worked with what they believed to be a safe form of the disease. They have since recovered.
The university, which has long insisted that exhaustive security procedures and technology would make the laboratory safe, did not disclose the contaminations until it was questioned by the newspaper, the Globe reported.
Local leaders, including some members of Boston's City Council who have long opposed the project on safety grounds, said the reports lent credibility to their concerns.
"They say that type of tularemia is not contagious from person to person, and that is why they didn't tell us, but what I am afraid of is that will happen with anthrax or smallpox, or something much worse," said Rose Aruda, a community organizer who lives several blocks from the large parking lot where the facility would be built.
In an attempt to delay final approval of the project, she and several other neighborhood residents filed a lawsuit Jan. 12 accusing the university of underestimating the potential "worst-case" scenario listed on its environmental impact forms.
The BSL-4 lab would join a network of new facilities, many developed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist strikes and the subsequent anthrax mailings, that investigate agents that could be used in a biological terrorist attack.
"It will be critically important as a safe and secure place to work and do research so we can combat bioterrorism," said Rona Hirschberg, a senior program officer at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, whose budget for combating bioterrorism has soared in recent years.
For Boston, whose economy is increasingly focused on its first-class universities, the BSL-4 laboratory, which will study emerging infectious diseases, is seen as solidifying its status as a research and biotechnology capital.
"This is the universal center of biotechnology research as it is, and therefore it makes sense to have a federal center of that research here," said Mark Maloney, who heads the Boston Redevelopment Authority, which has estimated the project would bring in 1,300 construction jobs and 650 ongoing positions.
With the mandated use of protective suits, air that is doubly or triply filtered, and backup systems to ensure electricity during blackouts, it is highly unlikely that scientists working in the BSL-4 lab would be contaminated, said Mark S. Klempner, an assistant provost at Boston University, who will be the lead researcher at the new facility.
Scheduled to open at the end of 2007 or the start of 2008, it would be built for about $200 million next to a highway, university buildings and a residential neighborhood. To protect against a possible terrorist attack from ground level, plans call for it to be set back 150 feet from any roads with public access.
"We maintain that no matter where these labs are put, they are safe to the population, and that is their history," Klempner said. "There has never been any kind of community or environmental damage from them. And even looking at worst case, there is no more risk of contamination to the surrounding population than if it was out in the middle of a cornfield."
While accidents at such facilities are rare, they are not unprecedented. At Fort Detrick, a BSL-4 facility in Frederick, a researcher accidentally pricked herself last February with a needle containing the Ebola virus. She was quarantined for three weeks and did not contract the disease.
The Boston project has enjoyed widespread political support at the city and state levels, but at least one longtime backer said the tularemia contaminations gave him pause.
"I can absolutely see why there is concern. I am in the midst of trying to determine who the regulatory authorities are and what was supposed to be done," said U.S. Rep. Michael E. Capuano (D), who represents Boston's South End and is a longtime supporter of the project. "I am trying to avoid reacting emotionally, but my biggest concern is that it took so long to report to the public. This incident certainly raises questions about the project that I did not have before."
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lymeloco
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posted
Sorry, lou if I offended you. I too am looking for the truth! All I know is what I read, and that's why I'm sharing my views.
Everyone wants a cure! You posted the topic, and we all had our opinion. You came down hard on some other people's views yourself, like you have the facts!
After all this is a discussion forum...is it not? Not trying to hurt feeling, just can't turn my cheek to what I've read.
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod: It isn't necessary that Lyme be a refined biowar pathogen... it may be that they were just looking at for possible development, or that it it was the ticks they were looking at in a vector dispersion experiment. On the "Whacky Theory" notion. "Lab 257" made the NY Times best seller list. Endorsed on its back cover by Mario Coumo and Lowell Weicker. Hardly kooks.
It isn't necessary that Lyme be a refined biowar pathogen... it may be that they were just looking at for possible development, I agree but there are some picular things going on
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
How about Population Control???
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Huh, what's this thing doing reappearing again?
Well, you know I never said the govt didn't do lousy things intentionally or accidentally and then lie to cover them up. But in the face of their lack of truthfulness, we need to retain our own grip on truth. Fight fire with water, not fire.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by lou: Huh, what's this thing doing reappearing again?
Well, you know I never said the govt didn't do lousy things intentionally or accidentally and then lie to cover them up. But in the face of their lack of truthfulness, we need to retain our own grip on truth. Fight fire with water, not fire.
Did you ever here of backfiring? its used to remove the fuel before the fire reaches the area.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Yes, I was afraid some smartypants would bring this up. Mighta known I couldn't get this past you, treepatrol. I have actually seen drip torches in action to set backfires.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by lou: Yes, I was afraid some smartypants would bring this up. Mighta known I couldn't get this past you, treepatrol. I have actually seen drip torches in action to set backfires.
Smartypants hahaha I have used drip torches lou ahahaha and called in airtankers to hit areas I designated mostly the headers though. cya bud
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
OK, how about calling in a tanker for a slurry drop on a certain worthless Yale professor's office, last name starts with an S?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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treepatrol
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posted
quote:Originally posted by lou: OK, how about calling in a tanker for a slurry drop on a certain worthless Yale professor's office, last name starts with an S?
Sure now iam gona be contrails producer hahahaha
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
WOAI-TV A new research lab for bioterrorism opened Monday at the University of Texas at San Antonio.SAN ANTONIO (AP) -
The $10.6 million Margaret Batts Tobin Laboratory Building will provide a 22,000-square-foot facility to study such diseases as anthrax, tularemia, cholera, lyme disease, desert valley fever and other parasitic and fungal diseases.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention identified these diseases as potential bioterrorism agents. Fifteen university researchers make up the newly established South Texas Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I'm with you Lou*)!*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Oh joy. They're ruining my favorite city in TX!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
Interesting! I note that nobody has considered that perhaps the studies done at this new lab might also be aimed at how to diagnose these diseases quickly and treat them effectively.
They would be really dumb not to consider what to do if these pathogens were used against American military or citizens.
Maybe some good can come from this sort of work.
The time and energy spent on conspiracy theories as concerns Lyme disease are so wasted. How can you prove the deliberate infection of people when the vectors of the infection occur naturally all over the place, are carried around by rodents, mammals and birds and have been accounted for for at least a couple of centuries?
What would you do if you thought you could prove deliberate infection? Sure wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
Just my humble opinion. I have wasted far too much time just writing this.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ann-OH:
How can you prove the deliberate infection of people when the vectors of the infection occur naturally all over the place, are carried around by rodents, mammals and birds and have been accounted for for at least a couple of centuries?
Just my humble opinion. I have wasted far too much time just writing this.
Ann - OH
How can you prove the deliberate infection???
How about Bb having more DNA than any other bacteria on the planet?
During the first Gulf Conflict, Operation Desert Storm, nearly every level of government, the military, and the American people assumed that Iraq had completely failed to deploy or initiate the use of biological weapons. Leading up to the war, I directed the military component of a joint biological detection project with scientists from Stanford Research Institute. At the conclusion of the combat, even after being presented with evidence that suggested biological agents had indeed found their way to the battlefield, I dismissed the reports of Gulf War Illness. That is, until soldiers in my command and their families developed illnesses that could only be attributed to their service in the Gulf or their association with people and material that had been returned from Iraq. In my search for the truth, I met Dr. Garth Nicolson. He was a lone, and much maligned, voice in the quest for a cure. Project Day Lily is a riveting and profound essay on what really happened. It's time the public knew the truth. Gerald Schumacher, Colonel, U.S. Army Special Forces (ret)
I think as in the except above from Dr Garth the people in this country need to know and the reason is So maybe we can prevent this from happening again with something even worse?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
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