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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » Drunk rats can't fight lyme disease

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Author Topic: Drunk rats can't fight lyme disease
lou
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Clin Diagn Lab Immunol. 2002 Mar;9(2):282-6.

Impaired bactericidal activity and host resistance to Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi in rats administered an acute oral regimen of ethanol.

Pavia CS, Harris CM, Kavanagh M.

Department of Microbiology, New York College of Osteopathic Medicine of the New York Institute of Technology, Old Westbury, New York 11568, USA. [email protected]

A rat model was used to examine how ethanol ingestion may interfere with antimicrobial immunity both in vitro and in vivo. Nonimmune Long-Evans rats were given a short-course treatment orally with excessive amounts of ethanol. Their spleens were removed at the time of sacrifice, and separate spleen cell suspensions were prepared and tested in vitro for their ability to kill two bacterial pathogens, Listeria monocytogenes and Borrelia burgdorferi.

After the bacteria were mixed separately with various concentrations of spleen cells, it was found that spleen cells from the ethanol-treated rats killed fewer bacteria than matching pair-fed controls, based on counts of the number of cultured CFU (for Listeria) or based on microscopic examination (for Borrelia).

For the in vivo studies, ethanol-treated and control rats were infected intraperitoneally with Listeria, and then, 1 to 3 days later, they were assessed for systemic infection based on the numbers of organisms present in their livers and spleens. Numbers of bacterial CFU for both organs were significantly higher in the group fed ethanol for the first 2 days after listerial challenge.

These results support the concept that acute exposure to high levels of ethanol can impair host defense mechanisms, especially those expressed at the cellular level, which could lead to increased susceptibility to certain types of infections.

PMID: 11874864 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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hopeful123
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hey lou,

isn't ethanol the same thing as what's proposed to run cars instead of gas?

[Big Grin]

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some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield  -

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lou
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
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hopeful123
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thanks lou

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some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield  -

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pq
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they should have used certain members of the idsa, and some other, like-rodents instead; for then, we'd get significantly closer to a cure, a lot sooner.

i say, "SAVE THE RATS" [lol]

[ 10. May 2006, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: pq ]

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Carol B
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I say throw a few "ducks" into the experiment,too.
I like the idea of a Save the Rats campaign.

Most of all I love the unexpected chuckles I get from time to time-Thanks.

Sober in BALTO,
Carol

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just don
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Yesterdays "Todays Chuckle" in our 'local' daily news paper.
"""Research causes cancer in rats"""

my thoughts--Then do more research. Dont like em and dont need them. Filthy rodent carrying disease, along with mice, racoons, possums, coyotes and a few others I cant think of right now!!
And a better use of ethanol is in my car,not in rats!! Because I remain--just don--

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just don

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treepatrol
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Why they wasting good alcohol on rats [loco]

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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.

Newbie Links

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tabbytamer
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Interesting.

Hope TuTu sees this post when she returns. Just might explain why she can't shake this Lyme disease [Razz]

Tree--love that rat photo [Smile]

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Tabby

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California Lyme support group

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lou
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Very funny, tree, rats with little can of coors!

Actually, I posted this as a reason why people with lyme should not drink alcohol.

When I got sick of tea, water, coffee, I finally went to non-alcoholic wines and beer occasionally. Breaks the monotony and better match with some food. The O'Douls amber beer is actually quite good. Think this is a newer product, never liked the old one in the green bottle. Sharps OK too.

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Ann-OH
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Lou, my favorite is a non-alcoholic beer called Kaliber. It is a Guinness product and tastes a bit more like an ale. Nice!

Ann-OH

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sofy
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I dont drink so cant blame that on why I havnt gotten better.

Perhaps I should start enjoying a glass of wine with each meal and a few after dinner and then maybe I can forget about this whole lyme thing.

I can be a drunk instead of a lymie. At least alcholism is socially acceptable where lyme is a no no. "Cheers"

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pq
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Imo, the study exemplifies one of the points made by Dr. B. in his congressional testimony about unproductive research into borreliosis.

W-e-l-p, then again, they did produce some rats, and also, perhaps, students and faculty with massive ``vowel `` movements. a few ounces of alc. for the rats, and a year's supply of fine wine, cheese and crackers for the department? check vendor invoices on this one folks [Roll Eyes] [lol]


facetiously, a clever scam by underaged, penurous graduate students looking to replenish party supplies. [Roll Eyes] [lol]

another, taxpayer-funded, welfare check in the form of a grant? compared to what klempner, et.al. received in taxpayer money, the funds for turning a rodentine squeal into a massive `vowel' movement amounts to pocket change.

[ 26. May 2006, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: pq ]

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pq
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crediting the researchers for being on the right track, i'll proffer experimenting on our rodentine, and murine brethren with another, higher aliphatic alcohol, since such experimentation has demonstrated good results at extracting certain parts of borrelia, with one such use of butanol being instrumental in leading to the discovery of a new immunogenic moiety extracted from borrelia.

1-butanol, and perhaps sec-butyl alcohol.

if they want to do clinical resarch into aliphatic alcohols and borreliosis, then i'd suggest looking into n-butanol(= 1-butanol = butanol), and even sec-butanol(sec-butyl alcohol) and/or some derivatives therefrom; the other 2-3 isomers of butanol do not confer the same, clinically desired medicinal effects due the different atomic arrangements, so to speak.

Supporting basis for further exploring butanol as a possible integral part of treatment for borreliosis :

in vitro evidence for clinical use of butanol for borreliosis:

1. 1-butanol, a key agent, used in one of the processing steps in a laboratory technique called `bligh-dyer extraction' led to the discovery of a new, immunogenic part of borrelia, a glycolipid.

2. in vitro evidence against the clinical use of butanol for borreliosis:

one abstract stated that borrelia was repelled by butanol. The abstract made no implied or explicit mention of pleomorgphic transformation upon borrelial encounter with butanol in the container used for this experiment.
Extrapolations to clinical use or non-use can not necessarily be made from in vitro experiments . although informative, more in-vitro studies with butanol/derivatives needed to support possible clinical use as a treatment agent.

in vivo(clinical) use of 1-butanol :

clinically,one physician has used 1-butanol, and, perhaps one or more of its derivatives, both alone, and concurrently with other treatment agents, for several non-infectious illnesses . best I recall, concentrations used, varied from 6.5% to, perhaps, a little less than 30%.; concentrations greater than 30% lead to narcosis, and other undesired effects.


Now, if they'll be "good", "sober" researchers,
and actually produce something from the experimentation with butanol and borrelia, i'll duly commend them, a bottle of wine in attendence; someone else will have to bring the cheese and crackers. [Big Grin] [Wink]

[ 14. May 2006, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: pq ]

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