Topic: how many here are conspiracy theorists (I'm not one, BTW)
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Do you folks
feel that it's AT ALL plausible that simple payoffs from corporations
could explain the denial of chronic lyme disease, or are you
convinced that the government deliberately started this epidemic
and is allowing it to spread with the goal of enfeebling our minds
and consequently enslaving us. I'm personally of the former belief,
but I was just wondering whic way most posters here leaned.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Science is slow - it requires much observation and testing.
Even the doctor who discovered H. Pylori as a cause of ulcers was just tortured by the medical profession in general. He later won admiration, but not before they dumped a lot of hate on him.
Doctors want patients to have exactly the same symptoms and they like to see something work out the exact same way everytime with exactly the same treatment.
Doctors also were never taught about TBD. They have little knowledge of toxins causing the kind of problems TBD cause.
I think when science "progressed" from observation and simply doing the best it could based upon experience - all that had held (for the most part) healing practices of thousands of years - they got lost and stuck.
Human beings are not perfect scientific models. And some doctors don't know what to do about the vast number of variables. I think many are simply afraid to think outside of the "model" as taught.
At this point, I'd say it is a combined effort and a deliberate choice in their disregard of the TBD research and the number of patients who have complex TBD cases.
AND, as students to become adults, should have had better nutritional information. We should have been taught to take probiotics or antifungal support with EACH prescription of abx. What were they thinking by ignoring that ?
And that is just one example of poor education all around.
Edit to add: I think we ALL wish it were simple.
-
[ 17. November 2007, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
My opinion, people in general are slow to change their minds...the get stuck with an idea in their head and they don't want to give it up.
Doctors are people after all.
Imagine all the doctors who think anxiety is related to personality...how slow do you think it's gonna be to change theirs minds that it's not?
Posts: 6641 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
There is a lot of controversy surrounding Lyme disease, but I seriously doubt our government unleashed Lyme on the masses to enslave anyone or to produce a less thinking nation.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Adamm,
This is a public site. Anybody can post. That means you will always have to question the credibility of things you read on here.
I'm not talking about any posts in particular. I'm just saying you need to use your own common sense and research skills to decide what to believe and what not to.
I don't believe there is a huge government conspiracy about Lyme. Partly, because I know that all the different health care arms of the government simply don't work well enough together to all be in on it. But I also realize that certain agencies are definitely holding back research and treatment.
We are dealing with a situation where some people and corporations have money on the line, some people have their reputation on the line, there is a lack of research, and medicine is a conservative field that changes slowly.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
yeah, good point. Sorry, I'm just mentally/emotionally a mess these
days, what with starting treatment and all.
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-------------------- Get it right... Posts: 1 | From Barens Ville Flordia | Registered: Nov 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
What Aniek said*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Any issue that involves power and money is going to involve many different interests.
I don't believe this disease was purposely unleashed on the public to enslave us.
I do get the impression that some of this disease was irresponsibly proliferated and accidentally unleashed by some military boys playing with biological toys, aimed at debilitating other nations. Speculation, but plausible.
In addition, I believe the problem is growing due to climate change, fewer ticks dying over the winters, less environmental oxygen, and fewer predators of the mice and dear who carry the pests.
So now that it is growing in epidemic proportions, yes I do believe that pharmaceutical companies would rather see us stay sick and treat our symptoms with expensive meds than get us healed.
I also believe that insurance companies would rather deny long-term treatment of anything they can, and that they actively lobby to do so.
It seems that the CDC is beginning to realize the scope of the problem, but is very very slow to catch up. They have to rely on research that is slow in the making, and some that hasn't been done yet.
I also speculate that with a disease that is considered "incurable" some people in the CDC would rather see us go on with our list of symptoms, than allow us to grow super bugs with long-term antibiotic treatment that will give people their lives back, but not get rid of the problem, and maybe cause a bigger one.
Then, of course, there are the predators, spammers, and opportunists who are happy to sell desperate lymies junk and skip away with their money.
There's always somebody out there, individually or corporately, who is trying to figure out how to make money off the unfortunate.
I can think of more effective conspiratorial plots than throwing people to their knees so most of them can't work.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I think you are refering to the links I posted. Whatever floats
your boat... The research done in the book "Lab 257" was done
by a credible lawyer (see below).
"From Publishers Weekly
This strong first effort by New York lawyer Carroll centers on a
U.S. government biological research center devoted to studying
such exotic and virulent diseases as African swine fever, Rift
Valley fever, foot-and-mouth disease and West Nile virus. Plum
Island is quietly nestled a mere two miles off of Long Island, 85
miles from New York City, and Carroll argues convincingly that
the island is dangerously insecure. Based on sedulous research
into declassified government files and interviews with Plum
Island scientists and employees, he offers clear and convincing
evidence that Plum Island is rife with the potential for a
catastrophic disaster eith?r from an accident or, equally
frightening, terrorist action. Carroll raises two chilling questions:
Is there a connection between Lyme disease and Plum Island
research? (Old Lyme, Conn., the location of the disease's initial
1975 outbreak, is close to Plum Island.) And what about West
Nile virus, which also suddenly appeared in close proximity to
Plum Island? Carroll offers clear descriptions of the dangers
inherent in studying deadly viruses that could infect untold
numbers of humans, disrupt the food supply or cripple an entire
industry--dangers heightened by a lack of even minimally
adequate security. The author acknowledges that the times
demand that the U.S. have a research facility like the one at Plum
Island and ends this provocative book with a list of reasonable,
well-conceived suggestions on how to make the research lab
safe, or at least safer. Readers will hope that someone takes
notice. 16 pages of b&w photos not seen by PW."
It's not just some nut job spouting off theories. Alex Jones' films
are researched & documented. He doesn't just make stuff up &
produce a documentary film about it. If you do the research, you
will find the info to be credible.
There are diseases that are genetically targeted to certain
populations. The science is available to do this. If you don't want
to believe it - its' up to you. I don't think the denial of Lyme
Disease is just about corporate moneymaking. It goes much
further than that. If more information about this disease was
made public, the drug companies would profit. Why is
information purposly being withheld about the dangers of Lyme
Disease?
[ 18. November 2007, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: sparkle7 ]
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Also - I guess the Tuskegee Experiment was just something some conspiracy nut made up?
The United States government did something that was wrong--deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
--President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health
Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the
late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate
sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama,
were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its
seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for ``bad
blood,''1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of
syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected
from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left
to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis--which can
include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and
death. ``As I see it,'' one of the doctors involved explained, ``we
have no further interest in these patients until they die.''"
I'm sorry I posted the links adamm is refering to on this section
of the forum. This really doesn't deal with "Medical Questions" -
it's more of an "Activist" issue, I suppose.
[ 18. November 2007, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: sparkle7 ]
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I haven't seen enough evidence. I have seen some arguments that indicate that it is a definite possibility that Lyme was "worked on" for use as a biological warfare agent on a certain island somewhere near Cape Cod, but I would still put the probability of such a conspiracy at less than 1 in 10 (but maybe not 1 in 100....)
AIDS has also raised such questions; that certain groups that may even have their sights sets on financial control of the entire world had something to do with its appearance.
Stuff like this might happen, and if somebody out there sees something that really looks incriminating, they shoudn't keep quiet; however, too much wild speculation doesn't serve any purpose but to alienate people- in fact even if there are "conspiricies" like this, the perpetrators might themselves spout off like lunatics about such conspiracies to make sure people are convinced that people who disclose evidence of such things 'are lunatics'.
So, we have to keep our eyes and ears open, minds working, and take every moment as it comes, drawing conclusions as logically as possible, and doubting the claims of anybody, especially if such claims might be beneficial financially or might prevent prosecution.
Let me point out, though, that this topic should be in "off topic"-- it clutters up the "medical questions" section, the most important section on Lymenet, and causes other posts to be "pushed down". Please help Lymenet stay as helpful as it was to me!
DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by HaplyCarlessdave: ... for use as a biological warfare agent on a certain island somewhere near Cape Cod,
Ah, yes, Plum Island- near Long Island, then, it was. (sorry- should have read all the replies first...) DS
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
If I had to choose, I'd pick the first - but sometimes I think it might be both.
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
re: I haven't seen enough evidence.
Have you actually looked?
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
hi sparkle!
could you go back up to your 2 posts on the bottom with LONG SOLID BLOCK text an edit them into small paragraphs for those of us who can't read/comprehend as you typed it please??
to edit, click the paper/pencil icon to right of EACH post separately, and break them up. i'd like to read what you posted, and i know other would too. thanks sparkle!
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daystar1952
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3255
posted
First of all ...to label someone or a group of people....conspiracy theorists, is often a tactic used by counterintelligence, disinformationalists or close minded people. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just stating a growing trend.
This term appears to have been created to automatically give lack of creedance to anyone who asks questions...specifically concerning the government. It was stated in the first post that it was plausible that payoffs from corporations could be playing a role in the growing disability rate of our country and the world. Well, by definition, that is a conspiracy theory.
The CDC, NIH and other government agencies have essentially become corporations. I do not feel that they can be counted on to help us and I also think that going to them with any requests for studies or funding for studies...is fruitless.
It has been the observation that studies influenced or carried out by these agencies always come to conclusions that are not really to our benefit in the long run. The studies are made to look like they are being initiated to find answers which causes the population to waste, time , effort, hope and money on results which these corporate government agencies know will not be truly helpful to us.
Greed also intertwines closely with ideology. In other words , those who are greedy often have other ideologies or beliefs...such as saving the environment at all costs and gathering the resources for themselves.
I guess it's not TOO important to try and guess WHY they are keeping treatment from us as it would be to know that we cannot go to them for help.
It's my thought that somehow we need to form smaller groups that we trust, that haven't been infiltrated by these corporate/government interests and fund our own researchers. Government/corporations in our country have grown way too big and whenever that happens fascism, disguised a democracy, becomes a problem.
Does anyone here consider Hitler and the Holocaust to be a conspiracy theory?
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
At the very top of the pyramid are some greedy, egotistical IDSA ducks.
Somewhere under them, but inextricably woven together, lies the CDC. Ducking and bowing in unison. Continuing to say utterly retarded things on their website like "you MUST do an ELISA first, then a western blot, to prevent false positives." YEAH, right. As if. When even Johns Hopkins says the ELISA is trash.
The CDC refuses to print the truth because America looks to the CDC as if it's the final word. The IDSA would have twin cows. Insurers would have triple cows.
A layer or two underneath that, you have the insurance companies, heaping gobs of cash on politicians to look the other way and vote AGAINST anything that will give legs to lyme legislation. If anyone wants to know who gets the big money from the insurance giants, just ask me -- I don't want this to be a political thread.
At the bottom of the heap are the everyday, run of the mill ducks. They read the trash the IDSA puts out in the form of "Guidelines," blissfully unaware of the actual science going on everyday in a legitimate lab near you. They read the IDSA's scathing editorial diatribes against us and their minds are usually a closed door from that point forward.
Do they have time to read PubMed? Do they have interest? Hey - why should they? That's why they belong to a professional organization!!! Can they even imagine how wrong and how twisted their whole organization could be? No, of course they don't.
Underneath all of that, there's US.
So is there a conspiracy? Yes and no.
Michelle
Posts: 3193 | From Northern California | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
In spite of its technology, its targeted medications, its laboratorical capabilities, and the fact that it (supposedly) is peopled with the best minds of our generation, the medical system is flawed with the idea that any health condition is more real than the patient afflicted by it. The human body is a unit built of interrelated parts that is self adjusting and any rational treatment depends on understanding why it is failing to self adjust.
I don't believe there is a conscious attempt by the government or modern medicine to enslave us, or that there is some malevolent individual (doctor evil) or group behind it all. When you point a finger of blame, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself. Humanity is on a crash course with itself, and we are all participating, most of us gleefully, until the specter of illness rears its ugly head of course.
"I have found that diet, fresh air and exercise have aided me greatly in the work of my life" -Andrew Taylor Still
Ask yourselves the question: "How is modern life keeping me from healthy food, air, water, sunshine, and time spent appreciating the natural wonders of this earth? In the answer(s) to that question, figure out how you are going to do your part to regain stewardship of the planet and promote that stewardship in all nations.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I have to agree with Doc here. Do I think there is a conspiracy? Yes and no as MichelleM.
My belief is that there is legitamacy with the controversy because there is no founded "cure" for the delima of Lyme. My belief is if there was a known cure it would be released.
I do not believe that the government has purposely infected us with the hopes of gaining submission of a nation. It is possible - note the word POSSIBLE that this bacteria has been "messed with" by military means and biowarfare hopes and it is POSSIBLE that it accidentally turned into a real mess by "escaping" into society, and is rampant and out of control.
Do I think it was purposeful? No.
Do I believe there is a known cure hidden in teh depths of our government? No.
Do I belive that some individuals of the IDAS have managed to find a "cash cow" through this? Most probable as well.
Do I believe that the CDC has "put a lid" on certain aspects of this deiseas? Most probable as well.
I believe that the motive behind such action is based on the ability to maintain some resemblance of peace, if you will. In order to not create the fears of reality that there is a pandemic issue that nothing can be truly done about it.
It rarely kills. The MAJORITY of victims of this disease wax and wane in and out of normal society able to maintain a job, a family, etc. We all know the ups and downs of this disease.
My belief comes down to the fact that there is no cure known. Remission is the best hope and that our bodies win and lose in the battle, often aided during the worst times with the assistance of conventional and or alternative medicines.
Has anyone ever given much thought to the insistence of maintaining the healthiest foundation created in our bodies by diet? The purpose of such insistence of LLMD's is the ability to allow the body to do what it is suppose to do - fight off disease!
It is easy to point the finger in our anger, turmoil and distress, but my belief is the government does know, the ducks in charge know and may be profiting from their knowledge, the CDC, NIH falls in line for the misconceived "greater good" and it is we that get the short end of the stick for we are begging and pleading for the help we so desire....yet, it is not there.
Because they do NOT have it.
That was a mouth full!! Did it make a bit of sense? I have no idea anymore!!
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
johnnyj, great analyzing IMO.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Please read the testimony of Dr. C on the PA LYME BILL Not Fit to Air thread! We need to take what facts we have and act on them. FACT: the Bayh-Dole Act passed in 1980 that changed the patent law was done with the best of intentions; but it did open the floodgates for conflicts of interest to be pursued by less than ethical people.
It is a matter of record that some of the leading lyme doctors have gained financially from this. There have been many articles about the abuse of this deregulation across the medical research spectrum. We already know that Attorney General Blumenthal has evidence; we already know that the vaccine lymerix is a glaring example of this abuse.
The problem is that most Americans are NOT aware of this! If it hasn't impacted them directly, they glance over the articles in the papers, comment on how awful this is and promptly forget about it. This is a problem that can be fixed, but it won't be unless those of us impacted bring it into the limelight and keep it there!
We need to start bugging our legislators on a regular basis, bringing this information to their attention. Do they alreay know about it? Sure, they do. But as long as their constituents don't know or care, they are not going to take it on. This won't be dealt with unless the public cares about it and brings pressure on them. We need to be vocal on these issues that are supported by fact.
[ 19. November 2007, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: lymeout ]
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
the fact is that lyme patients in europe need only 3 bands on WB to be called positive, and dogs in the US per some veterinary regs need only 2 or 3.
yet US patients need 5 bands on IgG to be positive. there's something NOT RIGHT when humans are treated with less consideration than their dogs.
of course there have been conspiracies wrt lyme. CNS lyme encephalopathy has barely been studied. the CDC has NEVER published a warning to the american public about late nervous disease or the fact that some people might present with a neuropsychiatric syndrome.
most research has focused on early, acute arthritic disease. do you think this is an accident? that it just happened?
Posts: 523 | From Stillwater,OK,USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
For me, Witches' Brew or Perfect Storm best describe the situation. Also, can't remember the name of the Theorum (of course - Lymed!!!) but there is a name to describe what happens when small mistakes or course choices, when combined with others, lead to unintended - and often negative - consequences (I'm NOT talking about 'the sum is greater than the parts'). I think that's more our situation, and it makes it tough, because it means we have to counter-attack on all fronts - insurance, docs, drug cos, etc.
And of course - as with everything in life - there must certainly be some dishonest individuals in this mix screwing it up further.
Posts: 314 | From east coast | Registered: Oct 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
quote:Originally posted by Michelle M: At the very top of the pyramid are some greedy, egotistical IDSA ducks.
Somewhere under them, but inextricably woven together, lies the CDC. Ducking and bowing in unison. Continuing to say utterly retarded things on their website like "you MUST do an ELISA first, then a western blot, to prevent false positives." YEAH, right. As if. When even Johns Hopkins says the ELISA is trash.
The CDC refuses to print the truth because America looks to the CDC as if it's the final word. The IDSA would have twin cows. Insurers would have triple cows.
A layer or two underneath that, you have the insurance companies, heaping gobs of cash on politicians to look the other way and vote AGAINST anything that will give legs to lyme legislation. If anyone wants to know who gets the big money from the insurance giants, just ask me -- I don't want this to be a political thread.
At the bottom of the heap are the everyday, run of the mill ducks. They read the trash the IDSA puts out in the form of "Guidelines," blissfully unaware of the actual science going on everyday in a legitimate lab near you. They read the IDSA's scathing editorial diatribes against us and their minds are usually a closed door from that point forward.
Do they have time to read PubMed? Do they have interest? Hey - why should they? That's why they belong to a professional organization!!! Can they even imagine how wrong and how twisted their whole organization could be? No, of course they don't.
Underneath all of that, there's US.
So is there a conspiracy? Yes and no.
Michelle
Good analysis! Since I do not have the brain power today to add more cogent comments, I will just say ditto to this. And add to Michelle's comments about the ducks, that in my experience, most professional society's tend to close ranks and circle the wagons when challenged by folks outside their society. Add the time factor, and ignorance and laziness factor that Michelle mentions, that seems to be enough to keep most ducks as ducks.
On a positive note, thankfully there are doctors who view their profession as an ethical obligation to encourage health and treat sick people, and who are diligent enough to learn the facts about TBDs.
An interesting thread.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
...And Here we have a "conspiracy theory" relating to "bird flu". The thing is, there have been pandemics of really nasty diseases down through the ages. Almost all (most definitely not all-- there were definitely instances of attempted spread of diseases for the purpose of military advantage!-- of these were not intentionally brought about by nasty individuals! Of course, it's easier these days to, say, grow a culture of anthrax or something than it was before, and the possibilities with genetic engineering are pretty scary. But the natural world is full of nasties, competing with each other to f^(# things up!
If indeed the world-dominator wannabes are hoping to control these things, or, as many think, and I sometimes entertain the possibility, are doing so already, they are pretty stupid not to consider the unreliability of vaccines and probable state of life in the afterrmath of an attempted "biologically engineered takeover". But it's also true that such individuals are likely to do stupid things. So again, we start worrying.. But there is so much to worry about, it's not worth it. Just use your intelligence to consider everythging you might do, its effect on others and yourself, and take the optimal course. Life is tenuos; it can end at any moment. And as someone noted above, if it does, the probability that it does so through a car crash or a gunshot are orders of magnitude greater than the probability that one would even catch "bird flu", much less die from it. (And with bird flu, one either recovers or not; a car or gun victinm not only has a good chance of dying- he or she has an even better chance of having to live permanently maimed. And look at Lyme- now that, as we can all attest to, is an example of a disease that can cause long-lasting or permanent pain/disability. Of course, maybe bilderburg or some group like that's behind ALL OF THESE! ... ..,. Keep your mind open, flexible and as sharp as possible. Do everything you can for the future of humanity, and to elevate as much as possible the true condition of life of all beings at each moment. Having done so is the only thing you carry with you your whole life, and, indeed, take with you into your next existence. DaveS
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Here's something to consider:
Need More Reasons to Want Answers?
How About Population Experimentation by the Government Without Your Consent?
So just whose body is it, anyway?
As weird as it sounds, the US Government has been conducting experiments on unsuspecting civillian populations with dangerous substances and organisms for over 60 years.
If you take a moment to watch the following video clip
you will note that the reporter says that the practice of experimenting on the US population was halted when Congress said, "Enough!" and passed the Restrictions to US Code, Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520, Title 50 -- WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE, CHAPTER 32 -- CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM in April, 2000.
Click here (http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php/?p=449) to read those restrictions.
The exemptions say:
"Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e) of this section, the prohibition in subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes:
(1) Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical, therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or research activity.
(2) Any purpose that is directly related to protection against toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents.
(3) Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related to riot control."
And then state: "(c) Informed consent required The Secretary of Defense may conduct a test or experiment described in subsection
(b) of this section only if informed consent to the testing was obtained from each human subject in advance of the testing on that subject." but, in fact, with prior notice to Congress or, per FDA regulation, prior notice to the local police force (which they are forbidden to share with the impacted public", such tests may take place at the discretion of the government. Oh, by the way, what is a "Biological Agent"?
Here's what the Code says it is: (e) ``Biological agent'' defined In this section, the term ``biological agent'' means any micro-organism (including bacteria, viruses, fungi, rickettsiac, or protozoa), pathogen, or infectious substance, and any naturally occurring, bioengineered, or synthesized component of any such micro-organism, pathogen, or infectious substance, whatever its o rigin or method of production, that is capable of causing--
(1) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism;
(2) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or materials of any kind; or
(3) deleterious alteration of the environment."
----
You just can't make this stuff up, folks! I suggest some of you
doubters that there is a conspiracy to actually do some research
instead of just saying things off the top of your head that you
assume to be true.
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-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Ok Sparkle, you've convinced me...
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
re (DoctorLuddite) - "Humanity is on a crash course with itself, and we are all participating, most of us gleefully, until the specter of illness rears its ugly head of course."
I didn't make the world the way it is. These things were going on
from before I was born. I think it's wrong to say "we" are
responsible. I was aware of this way before I had Lyme. It didn't
take my illness to jolt me into awareness.
The question is what do we do about this?
It's important to 1.) actually know there is a problem 2.) know who the enemies are
We can't just keep hiding our heads in the sand hoping it will all
go away with another IV. The assult on our health & freedom is
getting worse. You people suffering with Lyme - out of everyone
- should be realizing this... It's so obvious to me.
Every step of the way we are being prevented from getting well! I
didn't make it this way. I'm very angry about going through
pain & torture for 10 years not knowing what was wrong with me. The
doctors didn't know, the tests are inadequate, no disability,
bankruptcy, no way to make a living, improper drugs with no
evidence that they work... What else do you need to know that
there is something wrong with this picture?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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I feel your passion on this topic!!!!!! I sense it in your writings and words, you obviously have more information than some of us and have been able to compile it logically in a manner
that some of us have yet to be able to process!!! Be kind to us!! We are on your side!!!
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
I'm very impressed with all of the thoughtful comments here, and how well they have been stated.
To place all the blame on any 'conspiracy theory' would probably be folly, just as pretending there is no possible conspiracy connection would be equally as foolish.
And with that, I'll let others perhaps respond who aren't quite so sleepy. *yawn*
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
A biblical quote comes to mind :
"He who destroyeth one man destroyeth the entire
world."
The powers that be, like people throughout
history, have demonstrated
the capacity to act sociopathically. There has been
done by them great evil of which all are aware
(the iraq war comes to mind--THOUSANDS killed
primarily for the personal gain of a few),
and without a doubt comparable evil of which none to
few are aware. Whether or not it necessarily
follows
that one particular act will be done from the
fact that others have been is in many instances impossible to
determine. Someone capable of killing a few IS
capable, given the physical means, of killing
ALL--we must simply recognize this and be ever
vigilant. As well, however, it is equally
improtant that we recognize that there is still
that which is worthy despite this-- any who have
read Sophie's Choice, For Whom the Bell Tolls, The
Things They Carried ( I mention these because
they represent to me the fruit ofthe greatest human
endeavor
) or comparable works will learn
that hope may still persist in this world.
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
sparkle, THANK YOU SO MUCH for breaking up your long solid block posts into paragraphs.
lymeout and daves, please do the same.
LYMEOUT, YOUR PM BOX IS FULL; please clean house; discovered when i tried to send you this note! thx!
very powerful comments and documentation above.
thanks everyone for stating facts without letting a flame war start again ... being open-minded to read this, and YOU decide for yourself of what you believe.
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-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I am convinced that some of our epidemic and its virulence is indirectly due to biowarfare in the 50's, 60's and 70's. We've admitted to bioweaponizing brucella and anthrax, and the mission of biowarfare was a more "merciful" way to kill...by maiming a population. However given that people are idiots and that we've had outbreaks in labs even recently (tularemia in Boston), it seems to me people were careless and it got out. "Life will find a way" as in Jurassic Park. Or think of GMO corn-- its genes spread to even organic corn crops. Thus bioweaponized bugs used in fleas and ticks as vectors, got out. The first outbreak had no sensible cause (Old Lyme) except for Plum Island.
Since biowarfare is considered national security, and "collateral damage" is just that (ie sick dead people), and since the CDC serves two gods (us, the people its supposed to protect; and the government, including the military/industrial complex), it is incumbent on them to keep a lid on certain stuff.
There is a book called the Extremely Unfotunate Skull Valley Incident. Its self published, and its both much better and much worse than Lab 257. Its much better because of the documents they went over and the transcripts they have and the dots they connect. Its really pretty damning. But its badly written and goes over the line into frank paranoia, so only a wise reader won't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and when you throw in a good dose of paranoia and start making crazy claims along with your real and valid claims, you get ignored.
Noentheless: George W. Merck was a Special Consultant for Biological Warfare to the Secretary of Defense in the 1940's--post WWII. What do you think about that? Yes, Merck. And in 1977 a transcript was released where he listed accomplishments thus far including: "Production and isolation, for the first time, of a crystalline bacterial toxin, which has opened the way for the preparation of a more highly purified immunizing toxoid..."
You also have to wonder about things like, Marshall fought the CDC for 10 years telling them there was lyme in the south and he was seeing bullseye rashes and treating with several months of antibiotics. It took ten years of fighting for them to conceded there was something down there, NOT lyme they said, but 'Southern Tick Associated Rash Illness."
In this way, through naming and diminishing, they curtail an epidemic. There must be a reason for that, and for requiring five bands for a "positive."
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Want to go back to another posters comment on animals requiring only 2 bands for a positive result.
Where is that information found? Does anyone have a link to documentation????
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
And those are just some of the ones we know about. There are many others that have not yet been verified, or didn't know they had Lyme.
It may not be listed as the top cause of death on the death certificate(Kind of like AIDS is not necessarily the cause of death, but opens up the body to so many other infections and problems that lead to death).
It DEFINITELY kills.
Posts: 220 | From central TX | Registered: Jun 2005
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
re: "conspiracy....nawww, just official incompetence."
I don't agree with this. There is way too much going on for the gov't be to considered "incompetent".
There are huge think tank associated with universities, autonomous, or who have affiliations to various political groups.
These people research everything & decide which way desisions about your life will be made (to their benefit - of course).
Most people are unaware of this & think the leaders or corporations &/or gov't are ignorant.
It is the furthest thing from the truth. We are being lied to & mislead.
I'm sorry & I don't mean to be harsh but it's just the reality of the world.
People in control of this planet & the world ecomony are not ignorant.
It's we who are ignorant to think that the world is ruled by coincidence.
There is too much at stake to not have a concise plan for the world "governance".
Do the reading & the research & you will see how things really are. The facts are not hidden.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I have to support sparkle, oligando, and oxygen here -- there's a **huge** trail of documented evidence of field testing (and all sorts of other heious things) throughout the cold war era -- not to mention the fact that at least two documented outbreaks of hoof and mouth disease happened as a result of plum island's faulty security.... I suspect most of you folks would be shocked to the core if you did the reading regarding only the verifiable, documented evidence (no theories of any kind inserted ) -- I was.
I don't know if Lyme came from a laboratory, but there is sufficient evidence to indicate that the possibility certainly exists that it was either field tested in the Long Island area and perhaps elsewhere (see John Loftus' testimony) or that it could have escaped from the Plum Island facility (it has been documented that there were "tick colonies" there, though no hard evidence exists that Bb was being studied.)
I actually disagree that Don Scott (skull valley incident) crosses the line into "frank paranoia" -- though he does, undoubtedly, make some leaps of logic and form conclusions that aren't factually supported by his otherwise careful research. Other researchers, however, have done work that fills in many of the gaps in Scott's theories.
BTW -- I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist at all -- I consider myself a critical consumer of available information, (and also a published researcher,) who can form conclusions based on documented fact. I avoid any extrapolation whenever possible.
-------------------- "Looks like freedom but it feels like death.. It's something in between, I guess"
Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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