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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » General Support » do you relapse when you quit smoking?

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Author Topic: do you relapse when you quit smoking?
whatayear
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I have quit smoking...its been 6 days

I came on here and read past posts and there seems

to be a mixed review......

looks like alot of people relapsed when they quit

Are these people better now?

Does everyone relapse when thy quit?

This has always been a big concern on quitting

for me my thought was if the chemicals are

killing me maybe they are killing lyme and cos aswell.

If I go back onto a natural abx should this help

me from relapsing? ANY ADVICE?

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catskillmamala
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You might want to post in medical as well.
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just don
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I read someplace where some LLMD's dont even treat patients if they are smokers.

I guess the reason was it prevents getting a lasting remissions!!

So I dont think it kills any lyme or co's,I think it hurts your chances of getting 'well'

--------------------
just don

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Toppers
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come on, really? the first thing I did was to quit smoking.

you have a blood disease, why even consider bombaring your system with carbon monoxide?

bad bad bad, don't smoke if you have these disease(s). there are no benefits, that's just smoker rationalization.

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whatayear
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Toppers......it was a question not smokers rationalization, I have quit but when i went back to read past post some said they relapsed im trying to be prepared i am back in school and working and have a family etc...just need to know if it was possible it wasnt a question to consider smoking agian.
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Toppers
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oh sorry about that misread. also don't mean to come off as I did in the message...

take care

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Carol in PA
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Congratulations on quitting!

I read something interesting recently, regarding smoking and lithium orotate.


quote:

For my husband, after 5 years of trying to quit smoking at least 20 times, when he began dosing himself with the appropriate amount of Lithium Orotate, he was FINALLY able to quit tobacco.

I found out that tobacco has lithium in it and that's one of the reasons it's so sedating to smoke.

That was from a review of Lithium Orotate, at iHerb.
http://www.iherb.com/Advanced-Research-Lithium-Orotate-200-Tablets/6766?at=0


Lithium orotate is also used in treating Lyme.

Carol

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Need Lots of Help
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I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but my husband got a lot worse when he quite smoking.

Shalome

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Ocean
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I would think that increase in symptoms is due to body's immune system being strengthened by not having to deal with chemicals/toxins in the cigarettes. Quitting can only help in the long run!

Good job!

Ocean

--------------------
http://www.healingfromlymedisease.blogspot.com/

Sick since 1996...Diagnosed 10/2008

IgM:23-25 IND, 31+++, 39 IND, 41 +++
IgG: 31 IND, 41++, 58+

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glm1111
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If you google cigarette ingredients you will find among the poisons there are also a lot of antiparasitic herbs. Also cigarettes contain arsenic which I believe used to be used against spirochetes.

Tobacco is now being researched as a possible use against certain disease. So it's possible while being harmful to the body they do have some powerful killing agents.

I am an ex-smoker and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I wish they weren't detrimental but they are.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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whatayear
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NEEDS LOTS OF HELP ...did he get better after he got worse from quitting?

Also I wonder if it would be a good idea to get the homeopathic arsenic and also find out what the "good" things in cigarettes are and take them in a supplement.

I dont want to go back to smoking even though I to completly enjoyed them.

I wanted to quit so it doesnt effect my jogging but if im going to get sick again then I couldnt jog anymore either.....

Also Needs lots of help was your husband on any form of abx natural or regular when he quit? im just wondering if being covered with a natural abx might help aswell but smoking and lyme is very interesting becuase it does seem to be some benefits, its just a shame its a nasty dirty toxic poison that can kill you all on its own.

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whatayear
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Also I forgot to mention my husband who has lyme just minor joint pain quit 3 months ago and his pain is worse then its ever been...I didnt know if there was a conection, now I think there is!
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AliG
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Marnie was just posting something about Nicotinic Acid receptors or something. I wonder if there IS some kind of connection with the nicotine in tobacco.


Lithium in tobacco also looks interesting:

from wikipedia-lithium
quote:
Medical use
Main article: Lithium pharmacology

Lithium salts were used during the 19th century to treat gout. Lithium salts such as lithium carbonate (Li2CO3), lithium citrate, and lithium orotate are mood stabilizers.

They are used in the treatment of bipolar disorder since, unlike most other mood altering drugs, they counteract both mania and depression. Lithium can also be used to augment antidepressants.

Because of Lithium's nephrogenic diabetes insipidus effects, it can be used to help treat the syndrome of inappropriate diuretic hormone (SIADH).

It was also sometimes prescribed as a preventive treatment for migraine disease and cluster headaches.[48]


The active principle in these salts is the lithium ion Li+. Although this ion has a smaller diameter than either Na+ or K+, in a watery environment like the cytoplasmic fluid, Li+ binds to the hydrogen atoms of water, making it effectively larger than either Na+ or K+ ions.

How Li+ works in the CNS is still a matter of debate. Li+ elevates brain levels of tryptophan, 5-HT (serotonin), and 5-HIAA (a serotonin metabolite). Serotonin is related to mood stability.

Li+ also reduces catecholamine activity in the brain (associated with brain activation and mania), by enhancing reuptake and reducing release.

Therapeutically useful amounts of lithium (~ 0.6 to 1.2 mmol/l) are only slightly lower than toxic amounts (>1.5 mmol/l), so the blood levels of lithium must be carefully monitored during treatment to avoid toxicity.


Common side effects of lithium treatment include muscle tremors, twitching, ataxia[49] and hypothyroidism. Long term use is linked to hyperparathyroidism[50], hypercalcemia (bone loss), hypertension, kidney damage, nephrogenic diabetes insipidus (polyuria and polydipsia), seizures[51] and weight gain.[52]

Some of the side-effects are a result of the increased elimination of potassium.


There appears to be an increased risk of Ebstein (cardiac) Anomaly in infants born to women taking lithium during the first trimester of pregnancy.


According to a study in 2009 at Oita University in Japan and published in the British Journal of Psychiatry, communities whose water contained larger amounts of lithium had significantly lower suicide rates[53][54][55][56] but did not address whether lithium in drinking water causes the negative side effects associated with higher doses of the element.[57]


and from
Jathar VS, Pendharkar PR, Pandey VK, Raut SJ, Doongaji DR, Bharucha MP, Satoskar RS.
Manic depressive psychosis in India and the possible role of lithium as a natural prophylactic. II--Lithium content of diet and some biological fluids in Indian subjects.
J Postgrad Med [serial online] 1980 [cited 2009 Aug 20];26:39-44.
Available from: http://www.jpgmonline.com/text.asp?1980/26/1/39/990

quote:
Trace elements are known to influence a number of biological processes. [7]

The possible role of lithium as a trace element in human nutrition and in the pathogenesis of certain diseases is presently under investigation.[7]

Information regarding the lithium content of articles of food and the daily intake of lithium in Indian subjects is limited.

Lithium intake is likely to be affected by such factors as dietetic habits, type of drinking water, and soil content of this element.

Such differences in intake may be responsible for the epidemiological differences observed in the incidence of manic depressive psychosis (MDP) and atherosclerotic heart disease (AHD) in different populations.[7]

The present study describes the result of estimation of lithium which was found to be present in articles of food commonly used in an Indian diet.

The lithium content of serum, urine, and other biological fluids in healthy Indian volunteers is also reported.

quote:

Lithium content of food:
The results of analysis of various articles of food are shown in [Table - 1].

Amongst the various leafy and non-leafy vegetables which were analysed, coriander leaves, tamarind, tomato and garlic had high amounts of lithium;

while onions, green chillies, and vegetables like cauliflower had little lithium.

Spices such as nutmeg, cummin seeds and coriander seeds had high lithium content.

The lithium content was high in various cereals and pulses like pearl-millet, black-gram, and chawli seeds;

while rice and wheat contained very little lithium.

Lithium content was also found to be high in rock salt and commonly used crude sea salt as compared to refined table salt.

The highest amount of lithium (12 �g/gm) was detected in tobacco.

The lithium content of water varied according to the source.

Tap water supplied to Bombay city had a low lithium content as compared to spring water from a nearby village which had twice the amount of lithium, probably because the water supplied to Bombay is mostly soft rain water which collects in catchment reservoirs and contains less minerals.

(from the discussion at the end)
quote:

A very high amount of lithium is present in tobacco.

Chewing or eating tobacco, by itself or with betel nuts and leaves, is common in India and this will add to the lithium intake.

Serum contains very little lithium, and in some samples of cerebrospinal fluid, lithium could not be estimated by AAS, which is perhaps the most sensitive method available at present.

Endogeneous serum lithium levels in various psychiatric disorders do not seem to have any diagnostic value (unpublished data).

It is possible that the tissue level of lithium and its daily turnover are physiologically more important than the serum level.

Earlier studies have demonstrated the presence of lithium in various biological tissues.[3]

Lithium has important effects in many different organ systems, particularly those involved in ion transport and polypeptide hormone action,[4] and it is also an effective therapeutic agent in manic depressive psychosis.[2]

There is a vast difference between the large amounts of lithium required therapeutically and the small amount of lithium which is consumed regularly in the diet.[8]

Little is known about the role of lithium intake in low doses as supplied from the diet in contemporary metropolitan health.

It is possible that the epidemiological differences in diseases such as AMP among various population may be related to the dietetic intake of lithium.[9]

It is realized that the present study was carried out in the subjects from Bombay and the cooked food analysed was obtained from a general hospital in Bombay.

Food habits are known to vary from state to state and from class to class and no generalised conclusion can be drawn from the above data for the entire population of India. The need for further work in this field is obvious.

Hmmmmm....... [confused]

[ 08-21-2009, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: AliG ]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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I wonder if the cigarettes that are made from organic tobacco, with no additives, are any less harmful than the rest of them.

I think a tea made from tobacco would likely make you sick. I know people get really ill when they chew tobacco & swallow it.


There are herbs that some people use to help them when they quit smoking. I wonder if they might contain any of the same constituents.

I found a listing of some on www.care2.com:

quote:
(I broke this up for easier "neuro" reading)

There are several herbs with a traditional reputation for helping people quit smoking.
These herbs exert varying effects that will ease the process of smoking cessation.

Most of them can be found in either dried bulk, capsule, or liquid extract form. Follow the directions on the label for use.

If using dried herbs, use them only to prepare tea, and never smoke them as a replacement for tobacco.


Lobelia (pictured above):
Is a very powerful herb that helps to calm the mind and relax the body.

It has helped many people to control their cravings for nicotine.

Lobelia is also reputed to have the effect of making cigarettes taste very bad.


St. John's wort:
One of the best known herbs for promoting a positive mental attitude-something people often need help with during the early phases of becoming a non-smoker.


Black cohosh:
Is commonly used by women to help them stay balanced during their monthly cycle.

However, it is also known to be a safe sedative that relieves nervousness and anxiety, which makes it useful for the irritability, restlessness, and nervousness associated with quitting smoking.


Blue vervain:
Has been referred to as a natural tranquilizer and as such it can be used to calm the nerves. It can also be used for insomnia.


Catnip:
Has a soothing and relaxing effect on the digestive system, and helps to relieve diarrhea, flatulence, indigestion, upset stomach, and headache.

Catnip also has antispasmodic properties that make it useful for abdominal cramps as well as chronic coughing.

Catnip is also good for alleviating sleeplessness.

Catnip's antibiotic and astringent properties are also beneficial for treating colds and bronchial infections.


Hyssop:
Has the ability to help with clearing mucus congestion in the lungs associated with COPD.

It also has been known to alleviate the anxiety and even hysteria that is sometimes associated with smoking withdrawal.


Korean ginseng:
Is one of the most popular herbs in the world for stimulating energy and helping the body to deal with stress.

This property enables ginseng to help alleviate the fatigue and anxiety related to quitting smoking.

Ginseng is known to help reestablish balance in the body's systems, which can be helpful to smokers as their bodies adjust to the absence of nicotine.


Motherwort:
Has properties that enable it to act as a sedative, inducing tranquility in times of anxiety associated with quitting smoking.


Oat straw or oat seed:
One of the best remedies for stress, nervous debility, and exhaustion, especially when associated with depression (a common affliction in people who have recently quit smoking).


Peppermint:
Has a relaxing effect on the muscles of the digestive system, combats flatulence, and stimulates the flow of bile and other digestive juices.

The volatile oil in peppermint acts as a mild anesthetic to the stomach wall, which helps alleviate feelings of nausea.

Where headaches are associated with digestion, peppermint may help. Peppermint also eases anxiety and tension.


Skullcap: Contains plant compounds that help the brain produce more endorphins (naturally occurring chemicals that promote feelings of well-being).

This is believed to enhance both awareness and calmness.

Skullcap relaxes states of nervous tension while renewing and reviving the central nervous system.


Slippery elm:
Is rich in nutrients and easy to digest, making it an excellent food during times of digestive discomfort, which can sometimes accompany smoking cessation.

It works with the body to draw out impurities and toxins, assisting with the healing of the entire body.


Valerian: One of the premier sedative herbs used to aid people with anxiety, stress, and insomnia.

Valerian also acts as a muscle relaxant.

Valerian is clearly one of the herbs of choice in smoking cessation to deal with the issues of insomnia, restlessness, and anxiety.

Adapted from Natural Therapies for Emphysema and COPD: Relief and Healing for Chronic Pulmonary Disorders, by Robert J. Green Jr., ND (Healing Arts Press, 2007).


Some of these sound really interesting.

If anyone thinks about trying any of them for symptoms, they should check for interactions with meds first.

Offhand, I know that St. James Wart has a lot of interactions, I'm not sure about the rest of them.

Right now, I'm wondering about Skullcap. I wonder what properties it has.

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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A thought I'm having:

Quitting smoking can be TREMENDOUSLY stressful.

High stress can cause relapse.

It would stand to reason that the stress of quitting, both physical and emotional, could trigger the relapse.

Perhaps it might be helpful, to avert a relapse, to use as many supportive, stress-reduction methods as possible?

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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Need Lots of Help
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My husband did not know he had lyme when he quit smoking. He quit smoking in May 2008. We found out he had lyme in Dec. 2008.

I had him tested because I had just found out I had lyme in Nov. 08 and in all my research, it seemed like he had nuero lyme. He did.

He went through several stressors before and during the time he quit smoking, so I am not sure what made him worse, but he has never recovered.

We bought a new house in Aug. 07. We were paying 2 mortgages. He spent Oct, Nov, and December spending every waking momoent fixing the old house up to sell. He was worried we wouldn't sell. We thought we were going to seperate from differences we were having in our relationship, and the bills were crazy. Then, he decided in the mist of all of that craziness to quit smoking.

Like I said, he has been down hill ever since. Even when he started antiboitics in Jan. 09. He twitches, he has sinus/allergy issues, he has gained 50 lbs, he has gone from being jittery and nervous and not sleeping, to being tired and can't get enough sleep and he snores and has sleep apnea now.

So, I don't think it was only the smoking cessation, but the stressors that just set him spiralling down.

Shalome

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Snailhead
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This is so fascinating. I quit smoking 3/05. My body exploded with pain 7/05. I went and had a bone scan, thinking I had bone cancer or something.

My husband has often wondered if quiting smoking had something to do with my issues.

AliG, you make a good point on the "stress" thing. I definately went through that.

The lithium and other ingredients in cigarettes (parisite suppressors, really?!) may have played an important part in keeping things at bay.

Very interesting. Good luck with the quitting. I've been down your road...It ain't easy, but it can be done.

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whatayear
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snailhead were you in treatment when you quit? Did you get better after getting worse from when you quit smoking?

It doesnt seem like I have really good odds here does it. This is a scary thing I might be damned if i do and damned if I dont....

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Need Lots of Help
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Don't let your thoughts damn you....I have to be very careful of that.
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whatayear
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I truley believe that I always thought my positive attitude and meditation played a big role in me getting better...every night before i go to sleep I imagine a candle lit going through my body killing bacteria. I believe you have to imagine getting better to get better!
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lakes592
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You can yes...It is a stressor on your body which can bring forth the Lyme but quitting is necessary in the healing of the Lyme.

Just like with Lyme treatments you will feel worse after quitting before feeling better. Your body is busy healing all the damage from the smoking. You may feel fatigued, have headaches, chest pains, cough, fever and all over Malaise.

After the healing your body will come back even stronger to fight the Lyme!

--------------------
If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!

www.underourskin.com

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whatayear
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lakes592 this is the answer I was hoping for all along...but do you have personal experience with this happening?
thanks

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HaplyCarlessdave
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There are a number of possible reasons for "getting worse when you quit". The stronger immune system is certainly a factor. Also, even if you don't have lyme, and quit taking a drug to which you are addicteed, you get lots of "symptoms"!
A good drug is one that kills the bacteria and not the host.
A bad drug kills the host and while doing so, compromises the immune system-- is good for the bacteria, while the host lasts...
Thus if you decide to keep smoking you'll make the spirochetes very happy!
DaveS

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lakes592
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Hi,
Yes...I do. I never really considered my self a real smoker but I would go through phases of smoking. I went through it and it does get better with time. What helped me was visualizing all the toxins in the cigarette's poisoning my body and then thinking how could I ever get truly healthy with those in my system!

Good Luck!
Ann

--------------------
If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!

www.underourskin.com

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wheever
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Snailhead, my experience was similar to yours!

I quit around 3/05, and started getting sick not long after. By December I was non-functional and no one knew what was wrong with me. (The usual story.)

I started smoking again in 6/06 because I was so ill I had nothing else, and denying myself this one pleasure when I was clearly dying (well, that's how I felt,) seemed pointless.

It did help a bit, and I felt a little better, but it didn't bring about some kind of remission.

I've often wondered whether nicotine suppressed the lyme somehow, but once allowed to roam the body and take residence in other places, nicotine isn't enough to push it back.

Anyway, after 2 years of abx and great strides towards recovery, I'm thinking of quitting again *while I'm on abx* and see what happens.

I don't smoke that much, and my LLMD doesn't think that quitting is a pressing issue, although something that, of course, needs to be done eventually, preferably sooner than later, of course.

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whatayear
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Well... over the last few days my body has exploded in ungodly pain!!!! the only things different was i had quit smoking.....I never even at my worst bedridden state of this illness did i ever have body pain like this!!!! even to brush my teeth this morning was so painful i stoped halfway through...I was in remission for over 6 months. School and work seem to be out everytime I try to do something good for my health or life lyme shows its ugly face. I feel im going to have to start from the begining now!
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TerryK
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I'm copying this from a previous post of mine and no, none of us are well except for one sister isn't as disabled but then she still smokes and she did low dose doxy for acne for years. We didn't figure out that we had lyme till many years later. I'm getting better with treatment.

http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm
Nicotine from smoking causes acetylcholine to last longer in our brains. When we stop smoking, we then have less acetylcholine available. Borrelia toxins reduce acetylcholine.

You may want to supplement with things to keep your acetylcholine up. http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm

I mention this because everyone in my family that has quit smoking got sick with lyme symptoms within 6 months. I hate to post that here but it is the truth. That is 4 of us!!

I wondered for years why. I believe the decrease in acetylcholine is one reason why that happened to us.

I haven't smoked in 23 years. You can do it.


Terry

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Need Lots of Help
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I was immediately wondering what would get the acetylcholine up when I read this post. This is what I gathered for those who can't read the entire thing.

Listing 1: Dietary Supplements Increasing Acetylcholine
Synthesis Improving Neurologic Function

Phosphatidylcholine (Lecithin)Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid)
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine)
Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid)
Lysine (Amino Acid)
S-Adenosylmethionine (SAM) (Sulfur-bound Adenosyl Methionine)

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Snailhead
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Hi Whatayear,

I haven't been to this section in a while; how are you doing? To answer your question from days ago, no, I was not in treatment when I quit smoking.

I hope you can hang on. One thing I did do when I would crave a cig is to chug the biggest glass of water I could. You won't want to smoke after that, at least for a while. God bless you.

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blaze
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I smoke, and it is the only thing that keeps me sane. I don't think I'd have a bowel movement if I didn't smoke, for one. And it definitely self treats my depression and anxiety.

And very few Lymies on here, even non-smoking Lymies on here, are symptom-free and in remission, so I don't think it is very logical (or fair) to blame the inability to kick Lyme on cigarettes.

And everyone on the forum knows how much more dangerous I see cell phone and cordless phone use over smoking. In fact, with all the reading I've been doing on the non-thermal biological effects of chronic exposure to electromagnetic/microwave/radiowave radiation, I've every reason to believe that cigarettes, mercury, all of these 'toxins', would be easily released from the body if not for these exposures, and that the reason Lyme is even able to cross the blood-brain barrier in the first place is because of these exposures to EMF/RF.

Read The Body Electric and Cross Currents.

Read this, too...

Mobile phones 'more dangerous than smoking'

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mobile-phones-more-dangerous-than-smoking-802602.html

A Smoker and not a cell phone or cordless phone user, and proud of it.

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