randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i think most of you know my situation but i would like to know something.
please respond privately if you wish. i do not want to embarass or cause any of you any pain.
i think the most hurtful thing my husband has said are these two:
i wish you would get a terminal illness i don't respect you. go find a cowboy and have an affair and leave me alone i really don't care what you do
but the respect thing has bothered me every single day since he said it. it's like a recording in my head going over and over.
he has said in front of people "don't listen to her she doesn't know anything" or "she doesn't know what she's talking about". and other comments. i really hate going out with other people and have almost stopped going out completely.
then he makes plans for a cruise in december, a trip in october, and often acts like nothing is wrong.
he leaves for days then will come back and say "hi, toots" as if nothing has ever happened.
he says he doesn't buy me things because he doesn't know what i want, but it's my fault because i can have something if i want it, only i never say anything. (I don't because i handle the finances and know what he's spending!!)
how can you say you don't respect someone and then want to travel with them and you make all these plans and all?
the mixed signals throw me. he will say he doesn't want a divorce and never would remarry (that i know!). i think he's afraid he'll loose half of everything and just tolerates me.
if i sound lost, it's because i don't understand.
i've asked repeatedly about a divorce and he's said, no i don't want one.
i don't understand, call me stupid or clueless or something, but i'm missing something here.
what is it?
and again, please respond privately if you want to, i don't mind at all.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think I finally didn't care so much what he thought as much as I just wanted to be happy. This was 16 years ago and I have never for a minute regretted my decision to divorce him. I stopped waiting for him to change or decided if he wanted to be together. I decided I didn't want to be with him the way it was.
Posts: 303 | From green bay, wi | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
I dated an alchoholic for years. Everyone assumed we would get married, including him. In the 4th year, he started to tell me if I didn't marry him, he was leaving. I told him over and over I wasn't marrying him. I kept hoping for him to "leave", and encouraging it. We were not living together. I did not want to be the one to "hurt" him, I wanted him to leave with his dignity and self esteem intact.
It went on another 18 months until I realized he was never leaving, he had it too good. And I shut the door and never looked back. He called me for months, and then finally gave up.
To this day his is an alchoholic, and has never been married. I made the right decision for me.
You can not wait around for others to make a decision for you.
My two cents -
Wizard
Posts: 252 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pm sent.
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I believe that once you've exhausted the dialogue and found the other person's choices and behavior to be intolerable, that rather than waiting for them to make the "right" choice or say the right word, you have to make the decision to do what is right.
What is right is not always easy to define. Life is not simple, especially for a patient with Chronic Lyme Disease. We are often dependent, overwhelmed, hyper-sensitive and generally very sick.
To have someone abusing that, regardless of what is causing their behavior, is unacceptable and damaging. It can literally end in death.
It is never ok to be abusive, even when we may understand and have empathy for the cause behind it. For example, a Lyme patient may experience rage as a result of their illness infecting their mind, but that doesn't make the consequences any less real. There are still victims, no matter what the defense.
Making a firm decision is hard, but you have to look at yourself and choose what you will and won't tolerate.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
That abuse and then acting as everything is normal is more normal than you think. Abusers aren't always abusive 100% of the time.
Sorry you're in this bad situation. I have had to cut off family ties (not spousal) in the past and it's not easy, especially when they are sometimes "nice".
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
littlebit27
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24477
again, just a thought, this is just meant to be food for thought, I don't want to come across rude,,,
just saying this to maybe help save Lymes patients that are more severly affected in "the rage" symptoms than we are,
since this is a learning curve for all of us,
and especially since not nearly enough funding and research has gone into this disease,,,,
just humour me, please,,,,
but I have worked with the mentally ill, plus I am related to someone that is mentally ill, and I have worked with lots of street/homeless people, autistic people, etc. etc. and they say and do things that they don't have any control of, it is their illness
of course, no one has to put up with it, but if I suddendly flipped out because of Lymes, I sure would want support and would really count on my support system to help me or find help for me, especially from my LLMD,
I sure wouldn't want to isolate a fellow Lymie by communicating to them that we will reject them if they "do not behave",,,
What if someone, who has experienced Lyme rages, can't even process what really happened, probably feels bad, then looks to us for help and support, and reads that if they rage out some times that too bad, we will ignore them???
again , my advice, if it were me going through this, I would beg the doctor to give him Lymes treatment protocol.
If children can get Autism from Lymes, then I would bet so could an adult, where someone who was attentive, affectionate, suddenly is cold and heartless,
I would even bet money that there would be a huge transformation.
I really have tons and tons of experience working with adults that are autistic, and have many severe issues mentally,
what do you all think?
Posts: 606 | From somewhere out there | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged |
My daughter has episodes of intense anger, way too irritable, out of control emotions, etc. I guess I always knew something was wrong with her. Somewhere in there I knew she was a really kind and caring child.
When her explosions starting happening outside the home I really knew something was wrong. Counselors, doctors, no one could figure it out. I had to be hit so hard with Lyme that I was on my back before I made the connection and had her tested. She was positive, had been for 8 years the llmd said.
When she is herxing it comes out really strong. One day she was screaming at me while laying on the floor unable to move. A minute later she burst into tears and said she was sorry and she didn't mean to yell. She said she doesn't even know what is happening to her.
So, long story but I agree with you.
Posts: 303 | From green bay, wi | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks, I was really scared to post my thoughts.
I actually have 15 years professional experience and 40 years of dealing with a couple of ill family members.
I read that before someone has a stroke or anuerism (sp?) their personality really changes and they get kinda mean and grouchy....I had first hand experience with that...the man went from fun-loving to very grouchy, then died 5 days later!
another family member with Alzheimers,,, went from stern and cold to very sweet and gentle.
As I got sicker and sicker, I actually was getting happier and happier! I was making people laugh all the time,,, and normally I was introverted and quiet,,,no joke!
so I started to perform on stage and quickly realized I could make a lot of people laugh
I am so serious, I used to sing all day long,,,"I love my life, I am so happy"
Then the pain was so bad from Lymes, I was at the hospital and at doctors offices crying from Lymes, just having one of those long crying fits and the whole time I was saying "but I feel so happy, I am really happy"
and I have never felt happier in my life! It was weird.
I actually just connected those dots today because of these postings.
I wasn't manic either, actually happy, and making tons of friends because of it,,
its a long story,
now , I am back to normal,( but have bouts of real intense joy and happiness)
i have people beg me for the old me, the one that made them laugh all the time
even the LLMD said "maybe you're in denial"
this is a serious post, I am not kidding,
my point is---we just don't know enough yet---
Posts: 606 | From somewhere out there | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged |
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Okay, this thread is starting to confuse me. First of all it started with Randibear discussing how disrespectful and plain out abusive her husband is to her and unless I am confused it has almost turned into a defense on his behalf.
As far as I have heard, her husband does not have LD. And even if he does, the cause for abuse doesn't matter to me. Abuse hurts and is damaging no matter what excuse the other person has for doing it.
I don't buy into the lyme rage being completely out of your control either; maybe in rare cases. Much of the cause of lyme rage is just being frustrated with your living situation.
You have to learn to deal with being ill; or get on psych meds or whatever it takes to control those issues. If your not willing to do that then you aren't willing to help yourself and those around you that are suffering for it.
Anyway, my first husband was abusive. We were married 18 years. He had an illness. Its called alcoholism. I learned through this experience that no one should put up with abuse from anyone. It lowers your self esteem until you start to feel that maybe you deserve to be mistreated. It takes all joy out of life; and you can begin to loose site of reality. Thats why you end up staying with an abuser.
You can make excuses till the cows come home; but being abused is not acceptable under any circumstances in my opinion.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Corinne Posts: 529 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
thanks hon. i don't think he has lyme cause i have given him all kinds of meds and he's never had any kind of reaction. (even when i gave him a dropper full of oregano!! nothing....)
i know he had a very tough childhood, mother left and father put him in abusive homes, etc., but others have had it tough too, so that doesn't cut it with me.
it's the sometimes that he's fine and other's (specifically when i cross him), that's the problem. i just never know where he's coming from...
it's really changed me and sadly, not for the better.
i think about what i was like when i was single and go "where did i go? what happened?" and it's sad really.
marriage should not change a person for the worse, ever...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
There is never an excuse for abuse. Ever. Unless one is truly psychotic..and they have places and/or meds for those. Randi...please google the power and control wheel...it might help you understand those "good times". Im sorry i cant post a link. You might want to read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. Abuse takes many forms. Im not trying to be rude or disrespectful to you..please dont think that. And youre so right...a rotten childhood is no excuse. An adult makes a choice regarding how they behave. Most really do know how to behave. They manage to do so around OTHER people. Its a cycle of power and control. Sorry..this is a subject maybe too close to my heart. Huge hugs!
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
classic signs of abuse cycle. I am so sorry this is in your life and it is happening but you need plain talk. this is dangerous.
Some have already said important fact and warnings but it bears repeating from yet someone else due to the fact that the penetration of denial is so difficult.
this is a well developed area of understanding not just the opinions of a few.
Abusers do not wear a sign on their forehead advertising "hey watch out I am emotionally and verbally abusive".
I echo the fact pointed out they are not usually abusive all the time but cyclically.
this is part of what puts your defenses down inappropriately and keeps you feeling like your are the crazy one. It also leaves you in a perpetual state of self blame and doubt about the facts of your own perceptions.
Abusers are "predictibly unpredictible".
Abuse no matter the cause is unacceptable. If there is an underlying cause...either characteriologically or medically it is still unacceptable.
Typically abusers major in denial and evading peronal reponsibility for behavior. And in blame shifting.
If it started subtle and escalated with no nonnegotiable boundaries, you hav e likely been "boiled by degrees".
Adapting and making excuses or trying to "analzye" why... that does not work for an abuser. It is part of your adaptive denial.
They abuse. Rationales are not relevant to stopping being abused. It is part of how you have altered to react. You reacted normally to an abnormal situation. he is not reacting normally at all. you describe abuse.
("if" he were to get help his "causes" may be of value to HIM on his journey out of being an abuser but not yours now by any means.)
he may be in denial but please don't you be. This as previously posted is 1. potentially lethal and 2.will not go away on it's own.
3. And almost always escalates over time. 4. the receiver (you) worsens too
I am not offering professional mental health counsel but educating you
I was a professional counselor and have been decades in mental health related arenas and have also had to deal with it personally. Growing up and it still lingers in part of the family.
I witness that it changes people and is a devastating pedicament. but not hopeless and that depends on you, not him.
Please get assistance from someone local, a pro or informed competent clergy or local abuse agency, who will take this seriously for what it is.
The point is his behavior and your response. Even if he has a compromising health problem it will never be resolved by him waking up some day to check it out.
Your welfare still depends on how you set boundaries for yourself on abuse...no matter what.
Frankly trying to figure out "cause" when it comes to abuse is a further trap and delay in seeing the behavior for what it is. Get help. Please.
-------------------- Not everything in life that can be counted counts and not every thing that counts can be counted...Albert Einstein Posts: 208 | From Northeast | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I know you're trapped Randi. It is my hope that resources become available to you that allow you to escape this situation so that you may reduce your stress and find peace while working towards improving your health.
If I could have three wishes, I'd wish that your husband would suddenly change. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen I suspect.
2: I'd hope for you to find the resources you need to become independent of him.
3: I'd wish that you would divorce him once you had all the available tools and that you could emotionally overcome the pain of all these things.
Maybe others can advise you on how to get the resources to do this? I suppose you would have to ask for that though. When you're ready to do that research and you come to a place where you can make a firm and clear decision, I'm sure everyone here will have your back.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Why are you still with him?
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
good question, lou, i guess, fear. i'm afraid of being alone out in the world again and not having enough money to survive.
i've looked at apartments back in ohio. my sister has told me i have to have at least a minimum of 2500 to survive up there. the cheapest apartments are 500 plus utilities. that leaves 1500 for medical, food, utilities, car, insurance, etc.
i felt my sister out. she lives in a 2500 square foot house, just her and five cats. she said "you ain't living with me", so that's out.
i have gotten in the cycle of,as deerose said so succintly, thinking it's me. i'm doing something wrong.
he called me a lier and said he doesn't respect me. when asked when i lied he gave examples, and i went "i never said that" but he's adamant that i did say that. so i go "is that what i really said?"
plus i have gained weight with lyme. i used to weigh about 120 at 5 feet. now i weight 185. he will walk several feet in front of me to a restaurant, walmart, etc. one time i turned around and went back to the car. guess what? he went in shopped and came out and said "what, where did you go?" i said "well you walked off and i just wanted to see what you would do?"
he said "well maybe if you looked like something i wanted to be with, i'd stay." oh great....
there are lots of other instances...
i cannot articulate why i stay, i guess other than fear.
i know legally i would get half of everything, but i dread the battle. he would turn into a monster over this estate and i absolutely don't want a fight. i'm just too tired...
i'm still grieving over my mother and my dog. i said something about a dog today and he said "you really need a companion, somebody that cares about you." uh, aren't husbands suppose to care? oh wait, mine doesn't....
well i leave for ohio on sunday for three weeks. and i'm going to look around and talk to my sisters and my mom. (i know, but i'll go to her grave and talk to her. she'll understand.)
so i can't really articulate it. i think others here who have been in this situation can understand.
it's the i'm ok, then i'm horrible cycle that keeps me reeling...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Fear! That was what took me so long. Fear of being alone......it seems so crazy when you are married to a mean, arrogant, you know what.
But getting out of the abusive situation was the best thing I ever, ever, ever did in my entire life. I lived with that man for 18 years of my life. Married him at 20. What a long wasted time that could have been a good life!
It was so weird to have him out of my life. I would find myself uptight, waiting to deal with the abuse...... and then realize, I never had to deal with it again. It was a wonderful feeling.
And slowly but surely you start to get your self confidence back, and you realize that you "DO" deserve to be treated with kindness.
Best way to do it is go to an attorney secretly, have all the papers drawn up, and go stay with your sister during the time they present him with the papers. Don't talk to him even on the phone. Tell him to go through your attorney if he has anything to say.
Maybe your sister would consider letting you move in if you offer to pay her. It would be cheaper than living by yourself. Maybe you could offer to do things for her, run errands, laundry, cook, etc, anything to get away from the abuser.
Not telling you what you should do, or trying to be disrespectful Only you can make a decision like this; and you have to be ready to move on, in your own time.
I just feel so sad for you, because I was there once; and now I am married to the most wonderful man in the world. It is like night and day. I just know that life can be so very much better for you. You are dealing with so much stress being married to an abuser. That in itself will take a toll on your health.
I hope something good comes your way soon. A way out. A way to a better place.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Fear is the great paralyzer. And making a major life change is frightening. My hope is that you find inner strength. Im not saying to leave him..thats a very personal decision..but PLEASE talk to an abuse counselor. For starters call 800.522.7233. Just one small step. Please. He will NEVER change..thats a promise i can make with full confidence. Im sorry. Truly.
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
A healthy (emotionally) person will not and cannot tolerate and endure a dysfunctional r/s. Eventually the "shock" factor wears off and many people find themselves tolerating abuse, things that they would never have imagined tolerating. Sometimes in the beginning, we "stay" because we have hope, we see that glimmer of light. Sometimes in the beginning it is financial, or we have young children, and our choices for leaving seem worse than staying, for some. But eventually, sooner or later, a healthy person either leaves, exits, disconnects, or.... becomes dysfunctional, a reflection of the r/s. If we find ourselves so embedded in a r/s, whether marriage, friendship, dr-pt that we KNOW we should leave, but can't .. Time to get some outside help, counseling, support etc. Because chances are very high that we have become dysfunctional. My breaking point in prior relationships, abusive or unhealthy ones, came when I realized that I was spending way too much time asking "why" about the other person, and not enough time asking "why" I was still there. I hope you find an answer, and that you can find your own way or path to peace and joy.
Posts: 41 | From Springdale Arkansas | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am following this thread because I can relate in so many ways. Thank you Randibear for being so open and willing to share. Sadly to say...it makes me feel not so quite alone in my misery.
-------------------- Corinne Posts: 529 | From Raleigh, NC | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
well today was another one of those "what" moments.
i had taken out money to go visit my sister for 3 weeks.
he said he was going to a gun show and was going to take some of my money. the show was today.
guess what? he took 3/4 of it. i'm devastated.
our credit union is across town and i'm so terrified of flying that i have to be at the airport at least 2 or more hours before the flight. and to have to go the credit union would cause me untold stress.
i called my sister and told her and she said "just fly with the money you have. we'll go to a money machine when you get up here and he won't get the money. i don't know why you always expect him to be more than that."
we also had a fight about the car again. you know mine that he's selling to his sister for 7500 when it's worth 12 grand. i told him in december, i'm finished and i'm selling it. he said i'm keeping it until she's ready for it no matter how long it is. unfortunately his name is on the title too and that means i can't sell it if i want to.
what a great way to start my trip. and sis said her surgery is a 6 in the morning....i always need a day to recover from the flight so this should be fun.
but one bright moment....hehhe, wait until he gets the master card bill this month. it's going to be around 5-6 grand!! i had to charge my dental work which was 3 grand, a trip to abq was on there, and other stuff.
i just said "hey don't get upset over the bill, i'll handle it when i get back." i really wish i could be here to see his face....
otherwise, same ole same ole.....
and yes we're going to look at apartments and all, and i'm also going to talk to my one sister who's married to a physical abuser.
cordor, i have to talk to somebody as i have no friends and i know you all understand. many of us have soooo much in common and i know that, while we may disagree on some issues, you have insight and experiences which i can draw on.
besides, we only have each other and if i can't talk to you guys, then i'm really in bad shape.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
I'm so much in your situation right now that I had to hold back the tears as I read your first post.
I'm in a really bad cross roads as well. Seperation/Divorce has been discussed in my marriage for the past few years. But never any real action.
I have been progessively sick the past 30 years and now it finally shown to be chronic Lyme.
My issue as well is not having the support or love of my husband He's very cold and shows no compassion.
I was just reinfected with Lyme and now babs & Bart since this June
I'm having major neuro Lyme & have been bed ridden & on disability since June
My husband never was much of a sensitive or romantic person from start but since my becoming so sick he hasn't even given me a kiss or a hug or any sympathy Instead every day when he comes home from work he'll ask where's dinner or aren't I ready to go to work yet
He says he knows he's wrong but that this is the way he grew up and he can't change
I've always been sensitive & I know that nuero Lyme is affecting my emotions
What finally broke the straw is he purposedly works OT everyday knowing that in sick and not be home from 7a-11:30 pm or later And he also admitted lying that when he was supposedly working OT he instead went to play poker with his buddies
I even had him watch the under our skin movie and he was mad that it took longer than the 1 hr I said it was and only commented on how large the breasts were of one of the teens in the wheelchair were
That was it for me. I told him I wanted a divorce I have been sleeping on the couch ever since As I can't afford the mortgage on my own I will need to move out with my dog & find an apt
He says I should stay until I'm at least better to walk & work He's ok with us living like room mates but it's killing me more each day
Am I being rash? Should I stay or stick to my guns? I'm so sick but being here is killing me emotionally & I don't have any closeby relatives or friends
Need advise fast please
Posts: 157 | From Colorado | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I stayed in my first marriage 7 years too long. I stayed out of fear, and I stayed out of hope. I feared being alone and being poor; I'd never lived on my own before and didn't think I could do it. I hoped things would get better. Every time he was kind, or I saw a little spark of the person I'd fallen in love with and married,I'd get sucked in thinking things were turning around only to be devestated when the abuse started again.
Inch by inch those 7 years eroded me until I was sick physically and emotionally. My self esteem was so low, I didn't feel worthy to even live sometimes. I became anorexic, and looked like a walking skeleton. My hair fell out. I never looked worse. I remember peering into a mirror once at my decimated body, and thinking how I used to be attractive. Looking so awful just degraded how I felt about myself even more, and made me more fearful of leaving. My mind echoed my husband's comments - who would want me?
We're all different, but I was so torn down by then that I was incapable of making the decision to leave and then actualizing it. I'd think about it, I'd even talk about it, but always I'd chicken out. I needed help. I found an excellent therapist who helped me back on the road to rediscovering myself. As I became stronger, I joined Al-Anon to learn how to deal with my husband's addictions. What was important there was the support group; if addictions aren't an issue for someone else, having the support of others who are or have been in similar situations is still valuable.
It took me awhile to be ready, finally, to get out on my own. At first I lived with my mother for a few months; then I moved into my own place. Although I was still sick, and had a job, I went back to school part time at night. I started feeling better about myself and my life. I finished school, got a better job, and eventually married a wonderful man who does not abuse me.
I do not think I would have been able to make those changes without help. I also do not think that I would have ended up in a healthy relationship without learning how I participated in the unhealthy marriage I'd come from.
I'm sad for everyone in an abusive relationship, especially for those of us with significant medical problems. To me, a positive first step, whether that ends up being a step to a better relationship, or a step to getting out of the relationship, is to get some professional help. It was definitely a good investment.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Putting up with abuse never makes sense. Professional counseling is nearly always required to learn how to tackle this issue.
We see a medical doctor when we are sick; we need a different kind of doctor when our emotional health and well being are in danger. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I stayed 18 yrs too long. Actually if id known then what i know now id have NEVER married him. But i didnt know. It took me years to realize i was in an abusive situation bc he wasnt punching my lights out. Even once i realized..my reasons for staying were many and varied. And WRONG. It wasnt easy to leave but it wasnt the catastrophe i thought it would be. My heart goes out to all who are living with abuse. How courageous of all of you to open your lives to us here!
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Originally posted by rosiegeorge: Need advise fast please
You already know what is in your best interest. It's just painful to choose it, plus the fear and anxiety of the unknown are holding you hostage.
I can't blame you. It's hard to take a chance and to leave behind what we know, even if what we know is dangerous or unhealthy for us.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
But should I wait until I'm able to walk or leave as soon as I can?
Posts: 157 | From Colorado | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
If you have somewhere to go at least temporarily where a family member would be supportive, then go if you are ready. Once you can walk or function better, there will probably be another reason why its not a good time to leave.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
For all abused persons........how much do you "value" yourself?
I think I had to get away from the abuse to finally grow enough to value myself. If you value yourself, you will not stand for any abuse under any circumstance.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Of course, a split can come without abuse. It could just be no one person's fault - or some fault from each partner. Sometimes, it was just not the right match, or there may be issues that put no fault on anyone.
However, since abuse seems to be of concern in this discussion . . .
As for thinking that the abused partner should be the one to leave, where is THAT coming from? The abuser should be the one to move out.
Get legal and psychological counsel. Of course, if physical danger is concerned, get away. Get counsel and then you may be able to go back to your home, YOUR home. The partner would hopefully choose to amicably find other arrangements.
For anyone in a physically abusive situation, professional support can save your life.
Oh, and verbal abuse is also physical abuse. It's just that, hopefully, it's not going to escalate, but it can.
When one spouse says they don't want a divorce but does everything to force the other to that end, listen to the REAL message.
Again, the absolute necessity of counsel cannot be overstated. Such matters can be much more easily (and safely) resolved with professional coaching. It can be civil, safe and respectful for both parties. -
[ 09-13-2010, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
I agree with Keebler.......why should the abused be the one to leave! Get legal councelling; you may be able to stay in your home. You may be able to get alimony.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
I spent years trying to "figure out" the origin and subtext and purpose of my partner's cruel and irrational behavior. And how much of it was related to me, like I was always told.
Wow. What a waste of time.
It took hindsight and lots of reading to realize that the behaviors of an abuser and the dynamic of an abusive relationship both follow set patterns. These patterns have been well researched and documented.
Please read: Codependent No More, by Melody Beattie Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood Letters from Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood
These women were/are trailblazers in their fields. You will recognize so much of your thinking, and understand the intense level of manipulation that keeps you in this relationship.
These relationships are meant to be confusing. I'll paraphrase one concept. I don't know where I read it.
"The hallmark of a dysfunctional family is that the core problem (abuse, substance abuse, or both) is never discussed. Attention is focused on solving peripheral issues, or blaming other family members for the abuser's inability to control his actions.
Family members describe feeling "crazy," because their perceptions of reality are never validated. They learn to focus on everything other than the actual problem, and stop trusting their own perceptions and intuitions."
This statement blew my mind. It was my relationship in a nutshell. Who knew?
Also read: Why Does He Do That?, by Lundy Bancroft (mentioned above)
Analyzing his behaviors and adapting to them is fruitless. Wondering why he's like this is fruitless. Wondering what is wrong with you is fruitless.
These books (and many others) answer all the questions you've asked, even why you doubt whether you could "make it on your own." You'll read about many, many women who were in similar circumstances and recovered.
I often say to Lyme patients, "The resources are available. Get your health back."
I say to those who need to hear it, "The resources are available. Get your life back."
posted
Yes, yes. Those are great books; I've read two of them and found them enlightening. I saw myself and the behaviors and attitudes I had that allowed me to stay in an abusive relationship and I saw my part in enabling the relationship to be abusive. I never liked the term co-dependent, but it sure fit.
As far as moving out goes, it may seem unfair, and may even seem like one more way of being abused or taken advantage of, but I'm sure others have shared my need to distance themselves from shared property. I wanted a new beginning in an environment not laced with dark memories. I also did not want to become engaged in a battle to get my ex out of the house, especially in view of his new habit of keeping a loaded gun under the mattress and the escalating nature of our disagreements. And, I did not want to inhabit a space he may consider his own because I did not want him coming back. So for me, it was a choice made to establish my independence and to close the door on his access to me. During the divorce settlement, the house was sold and the proceeds were divided so ultimately there was no advantage to him.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
julielynne4
Unregistered
posted
I have a question related to this thread. What do you do (or what have you done, what would you suggest to someone) who finally gets to the point where they KNOW they have no choice but to leave their spouse, and they tell him, and then...
He decides he wants to do EVERYTHING in his power to keep you, and he is devastated, and he tries to convince you that this is what he needed, and he has hit rock bottom so he will do ANYTHING to keep you.
He becomes Mr. Sweet, Mr. Perfect. The only problem is you have grown so weary of his verbal abuse for ten years that you are cold and callous.
posted
That's not uncommon at all. I did everything in my power to get my ex-husband to join AA, from encouraging, to setting a good example, to ceasing enabling him, to inviting him to combined AA/Al-Anon gatherings, all to no avail. Until I told him I'd had enough. Then he joined AA. He apologized for all of the awful things he'd said and done to me, and even acknowledged that he had taken out his anger and frustration on me and didn't know why. He said he'd hit bottom and was ready to change. He wanted things to be as they were when we were first in love. Oh how I'd longed to hear those words. Although he'd previously dropped out of marriage counseling after three sessions, he asked me if I'd be willing to go again if he committed to it. Everything I'd hoped for was coming true. Mr. Sweet, Mr. Perfect. Exactly.
But when I held my ground and said we'd need to separate for awhile and see how it went, he had little patience for actually doing the work it would take to mend the relationship. When I didn't immediately accept his proposition, it wasn't long before his previous behavior was back in play. Only worse. Because when it became apparent to him that I really was leaving, he became sort of manac about trying to keep me there. It was then that it dawned on me that what he was calling "love" was really possession. He hadn't wanted me for years, and told me so directly and indirectly. But I filled a place in his life, and losing that created all sorts of issues for him. How sad, and how illuminating to realize this; so many pieces of the puzzle clicked into place for me when I understood the person vs. possession framework within which I had inadvertently lived for so long.
It was a battle for a couple of years once I left to finally get him all of the way out of my life. He called me to spew his anger on me, he showed up at my workplace to trap me into hearing his abuse, he inserted his head or arms into my car window when we were exchanging the children to force me to stay and listen to him, he suggested co-parenting counseling during which all he did was run me down (the counselor finally told me that I didn't need to take that abuse and he recommended I cease all direct contact, which drove my ex husband nuts b/c he couldn't vent on me anymore). Anytime he had access to me, he had so much stored rage that he hadn't been able to vent because I was no longer providing that service, that his fury was frightening. He seemed compelled to unleash it not only at me, but also by spreading ugly and untrue rumors about me to people we knew, to people at our childrens schools, to people at scouting, etc. All of this from Mr. Sweet and Mr. Perfect....
So, I wouldn't advise anyone of what to do, but I would say based on my own experience, that huge changes in a relationship takes a lot of work. If that work wasn't worth it to a spouse before the ultimatum, what changed to make it more palatable now? The other thing I'd say is that taking a close look at your actual role in the relationship might provide some insight into what exactly your partner would be losing if you left. Then it's a matter of determining whether or not that's what you want to be.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
Make NO mistake,,,the addicted,,,or abuser is NOT always male,,,and the abused is not always female!!!!
Dont ask me how I know!!!
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged |
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Originally posted by julielynne4: I have a question related to this thread. What do you do (or what have you done, what would you suggest to someone) who finally gets to the point where they KNOW they have no choice but to leave their spouse, and they tell him, and then...
He decides he wants to do EVERYTHING in his power to keep you, and he is devastated, and he tries to convince you that this is what he needed, and he has hit rock bottom so he will do ANYTHING to keep you.
He becomes Mr. Sweet, Mr. Perfect. The only problem is you have grown so weary of his verbal abuse for ten years that you are cold and callous.
What to do?
There is nothing left at that point. Then again, if you play the lottery, you could gamble on being that one in a million that makes it out alive and somehow manages to ride off into the sunset with Mr. Perfect and the perfect relationship.
However, no one says what happens after the sun sets for those who "think" they've made it through. Then Dr. Jeckle comes alive again and it's back to hell you go.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Wow...I really appreciate your responses. I know this is randibear's thread, so I don't mean to take it over...but I have been reading randibear's posts for a long time because I feel I relate to her.
I have not been physically abused, however my husband can be downright mean. He has been a recovered alcoholic for 17 years. He still has what I call the "addictive" personality, full of anger.
My problem is he is often a wonderful father and husband, and the guilt I feel now that he is "turning over a new leaf" is tremendous. He is completely depressed at the thought that we may separate, and I can't help feel bad for him.
He says he has such "sorrow" for all the pain he has caused me and the kids. As I type this, is sounds like a bunch of crap. But as I live it, it is hard to stick with what I have "decided."
He is seen by others as a wonderful man, dad, and spouse. He and I laugh a lot, and therefore I feel sometimes that maybe I am overreacting. However, maybe this is "typical" for people in my shoes. And maybe it is typical also for people like him to have a side of niceness and endearing qualities?
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
The guilt is a result of the manipulation. And feeling like you are overreacting is typical.
You are not overreacting. Nobody should convince themselves to accept verbal abuse because they "feel sorry" for someone.
I spent four years living with tremendous guilt. I was living with a man who was raised by addicts. He was not a user himself. He was not physically abusive. He was inconsistently verbally abusive. Some days were normal. Some days were pretty good. Some days were awful. Most were somewhere in-between.
I tolerated this for years because I felt sorry for him. He'd been raised in a difficult home. He'd been in foster care. He'd run away. He was pretty low-functioning as an adult. He worked, but couldn't seem to manage anything else about adult life. I would have felt so guilty for leaving this man-child.
And, of course, all the people we knew thought he was awesome. So I doubted my own reactions to his moods and comments. Maybe he just didn't understand communication. Maybe he didn't know he was hurting my feelings. Maybe I was overreacting.
His behaviors were all typical of a child raised in a home with addiction. And mine were all typical of co-dependency.
He also told me he never wanted us to break up. If we did, he said he would try to win me back. At the same time, he was ridiculing me. It made no sense at all. If he thought so little of me, why didn't he just leave?
He was never going to leave. I was a target for all his bad feelings. He wanted that target. And I allowed him the safety of not having to grow up and be a responsible adult. I took care of all of that for him.
You need distance to figure out your feelings. It may take years before you can look back on this and see it for what it really was.
This is not the end of the abuse. I'm sorry. This is just another way to keep you and confuse you.
Even without a history of physical abuse in the relationship, my abuser went NUTS when I left. His biggest fears were abandonment and losing control of someone. He was not about to face those feelings.
He threatened to kill me. He threatened to kill himself. I had to call the police. He left the state. He was extradited by the FBI, because he was known to have a gun. He was charged with felony stalking. Total nightmare.
Leaving can be the most dangerous time in the relationship. Be prepared to get help and go through with it anyway.
And read the books I posted. I know I keep saying that.
Good luck! BoxerMom
P.S. I've been married to a great guy for 8 years (together for 10), and I've NEVER felt a single moment of fear or guilt. Those are not normal feelings to have in a healthy relationship.
posted
Have you been through this cycle before? He says he's turning over a new leaf in response to the reality that you are considering leaving. You say he is mean, he knows he is mean, and he says he's sorry for being mean. Has he said that before? If so, why would this time be different? If not, why would it take you deciding to leave for him to realize he has been mean to you?
There is a lot of wisdom in what BoxerMom wrote, and if you end up reading one or more of the recommended books, it might surprise you how much of your own experience and thoughts are echoed there.
Trust yourself. It's a common part of an abusive relationship for the partner who is abused to question their view of reality. That's part of what keeps them in the relationship.
As far as what others think of him, in my view, that is valueless. Everyone thought my ex husband was wonderful, too. And, to them, he was. But he could close the door after a visit from a friend, or hang up the phone after talking with someone he liked, and like a dark storm, his face would melt into the angry person I lived with. Those other people do not know better than you know how your relationship is with your husband. Ultimately, you are an equal partner in this voluntary status of marriage, and if you do not want to be treated a certain way, nobody else's opinion - not his, not your friends', not any relatives' - matters but yours.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
My kids dad turned into mr perfect EACH AND EVERY TIME i gave him the boot, or was about to. Please..you REALLY need to get educated about the abuser and cycles of abuse. Check out an abuse message board..im confident theyll tell you the same thing youve read here. I dont have enough room here to tell you what i went thru when my ex realized i wasnt taking him back. I was terrified..and with good reason. Thats why you need the help of the dv center..they will help you with an escape plan and think of things you never would. Im now married to a great man that doesnt have a mean bone in his body. Life CAN be good.
Posts: 624 | From Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like cordor said this topic is filled with amazing stories of courage and wisdom.
I don't have anything else to add (unusual for me). All I can do is wish you all the best.
-------------------- You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'
---Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 748 | From somewhere | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic