Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
The Morning Call program has a transcript for those who missed today's Lyme Talk with Dr. C of NY from ILADS and Lawrence Zemel from the devils back yard- I mean the IDSA.
For those who don't know Zemel, he is, amongst other things, the author of the infamous "Zemel letter"- the one he sent to the CT Health Department turning in a LLMD years ago and also encouraging them to let him help train a health department employee to sneak into LLMD's offices pretending they were sick to try to dig up dirt on them.
In spite of the terribly negative Zemel and his attacks, Dr. C was his usual wonderful and educated self and made us all proud.
He took a licking and kept on ticking, as only he can do! Thanks Dr. C!
Zemel (he couldn't help it) showed his colors, being a genuine ____________, uh, never mind.
See some of Zemel's quotes below and you can decide how to fill in that blank.
ALL QUOTES BELOW ARE FROM ZEMEL... Link to full transcript below.
Dr C's data is pure speculation. Current testing for the Lyme bacteria picks up all spirochetes in North America, at all commercial labs. One lab in California has not been shown to produce reliable results.
Futher more, antibodies to the Lyme bacteria may be toxic. [HUH?]
Dr C, while physicians have a right to treat with antibiotics, they have a responsibility to practice medicine in the safest way possible, following established scientific principles. Avoiding science is not in society's best interest.
You will have to ask those physicians directly about the cost of care. There is one physician in southern CT who asks for money up front. One wonders about his motives.
Medicine should be practiced by physicians and not by politicians. Physicians should engage in a dialogue with their patients.
Insurance companies respond to evidence based medicine. Since there is no evidence, that IV therapy beyond 4-6 weeks is effective, they should rightfully deny coverage.
A small vocal group of constituents should not be dictating medical care.
Harold: If your daughter tests positive for Lyme disease then she should be treated with antibiotics. If she tests negative, then she requires other treatments.
Dedee: I entirely agree with you. This is why scientific guidelines are continually updated. The problem occurs when the public and wayward physicians ignore the science.
Ellen: I'm not aware of evidence to support alternative treatments in place of antibiotics. Can you please educate me?
[On AG actions] ... that was a pure political move with no basis or legality to investigate. If the authors truly had a conflict, they would have recommended long term antibiotics. This was a very unfortunate event, when politics was interfering with the scientific process.
The ILADS guidelines were reviewed by the British Health Agency and found to lack scientific credibility. Most major specialty organizations in North America and Europe have endorsed the IDSA guidelines.
The IDSA guidelines were published in 2006. As a result of the unfortunate attorney general investigation, a separate panel agreed with the original findings without change. New guidelines will probably be published in several years as new information becomes available.
posted
uh payne.... the IDSA is the bad guys.. not ILADS
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Hambone
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29535
posted
LMBO at the title of this post.
He is certainly of the devil, that's fo 'sho.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Hambone
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29535
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: ALL QUOTES BELOW ARE FROM ZEMEL... Link to full transcript below.
Dr C, while physicians have a right to treat with antibiotics, they have a responsibility to practice medicine in the safest way possible, following established scientific principles. Avoiding science is not in society's best interest.
Practice medicine in the safest way possible?
Gee. Seems to me that when I went to 15 different doctors trying to find out what was killing me, every single one of them only wanted to give me antidepressants or psych drugs ( which I refused ).
Where is the science in that?
Every single one of those drugs said that it is not known how those drugs work. Something like, "Exact mechanism is not known".
But the doctors wrote those scripts like they were candy.
You don't need any blood test at all to come out of a doctor's office with an armload of crazy drugs.
Where is the science? How is that safe? Many of those drugs are very dangerous.
Zemel is just one of those people that can't stand to be wrong. He'd rather die than ever admit he is wrong. Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Gee. Seems to me that when I went to 15 different doctors trying to find out what was killing me, every single one of them only wanted to give me antidepressants or psych drugs ( which I refused ).
Where is the science in that?
Every single one of those drugs said that it is not known how those drugs work. Something like, "Exact mechanism is not known".
But the doctors wrote those scripts like they were candy.
You don't need any blood test at all to come out of a doctor's office with an armload of crazy drugs.
Where is the science? How is that safe? Many of those drugs are very dangerous.
Zemel is just one of those people that can't stand to be wrong. He'd rather die than ever admit he is wrong.
-
VERY VERY TRUE!!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I hate to say it, but to me it seemed that Dr. C didn't really come out on top of that conversation. I think if he were better at typing, it would have worked more in his favor.
-------------------- IgM: [18++,31+++,34++,41++,83-93+] [39 IND] IgG: [41 IND] Positive according to IGeneX. Negative according to CDC. Negative for co-infections. Currently treating for Lyme, Bartonella, Babesia Posts: 225 | From Minnesota | Registered: May 2011
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
I agree with Jenifer. It almost seems like he was typing with 2 fingers or something... Also he mis-spelled a lot of words, and that doesn't look very professional.
He wrote some very good things, though. But overall it's the same stuff that both sides have been repeating for the past decade or so, and that's why I think it was mostly a waste of time.
Summary: IDSA: We have studies! You don't. ILADS: We have studies! Yours suck.
But the cockyness of Dr. Z was very evident, and I think that made him look bad. Especially when he wrote that there are no studies done to support herbal therapies, he wrote: "Would you care to educate me?" The guy is full of himself. He obviously DOES need education, and hopefully within the next couple of years the truth about Lyme will be well known, and he'll be shown to have been wrong the entire time.
Besides, there are HUNDREDS of studies which show the effectiveness of herbs, and herbs were the main therapy for syphillis, even in the US, until penicillin was discovered.
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posted
I give Dr. C credit for going on the program. Many LLMDs do not want to be known publicly.
If interested in what Dr. C has to say on another program along with Pamela Weintraub they can listen to the broadcast from earlier this week at the following link:
Join host Crystal Sarakas for a discussion about Lyme disease and the controversy surrounding the disease. Guests include Pamela Weintraub, author of Cure Unknown: Inside the Lyme Epidemic.
The program was an hour long and most certainly worth listening too.
Warm regards, p.
Posts: 119 | From New York New York | Registered: May 2010
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
piper,
Thanks for the link! I didn't know Dr. C was on another show. He sure didn't ask me if he could be!
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