Topic: They don't like you Loonies! Phil Baker & Gang
Tincup
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posted
But, I've been invited as their special guest, once again, to the IDSA's Annual Summer BBQ.
Ok, not really. HA!
Quote about ILADS & LLMD's- "Obviously, the credibility of guidelines proposed by ILADS, a pseudoscientific organization with an undistinguished membership of about 300, as well as the similar views of those often referred to as Lyme Literate Physicians (LLMDs), should no longer be given credence and serious consideration."
Another quote: don't go to ILADS- "If patients can no longer believe and trust our very best research scientists, clinicians, and public health institutions, who have contributed significantly to the public health for the past many years, where should they go to get the advice and treatment they need? Obviously, not to ILADS or its disciples."
Quote referring to Lyme patients- "To characterize such individuals as ``loonies'' might be too kind a description."
Quote in general- "What's even worse is how many people believe such ``fiction'' and embellish it with their delusions."
To help those with vision problems (paragraph spacing inserted), here is Baker's Letter to the Editor in full.
Tincup
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posted
Why don't they like you?
You, a chronic Lyme patient, represent a BIG failure to them. You were not cured with their insurance friendly treatment protocols. OH MY!
And...
You are taking a BIG chunk out of their wallet when you scream and shout about how awful everything they've touched turns out- like lab tests, research funding, vaccines, etc.
Keebler
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posted
- Quote referring to Lyme patients-
"To characterize such individuals as ``loonies'' might be too kind a description."
How very, very sad - in so many ways. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Tincup
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I agree Keebler! If anyone thinks we can work with them and they will be agreeable to listening and/or making needed changes, they are sadly mistaken.
I've never seen such such viciousness. Even the Devil himself looks good compared to what we see out of this bunch of so-called "professionals".
Imagine. This is suppose to be a group of educated doctors HELPING people, and they carry on like this?
Keebler
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posted
- Yeah, it's the viciousness that is so very appauling.
Normally, a doctor whose patients are not getting better would seriously want to know, "well, then, HOW else? What else? What's missing from my thought process?" etc.
The viciousness is so thick from the IDSA and that I just never, ever understood. But I've been on the receiving end of it several times. My state (Oregon) has a huge IDSA stronghold when it comes to lyme. The verbal abuse, even in several ERs (for seizures, not for lyme but they saw "treatment-seeking for lyme" in my chart) has been scalding. Just scalding.
I never understood. But I got that even when I "just" had the "CFS" diagnosis. Oregon decided long ago there is no such thing as CFS, either.
But they also have viciousness for Eva Sapi and Lorraine Johnson - and other good intelligent people who are trying to help us all learn and understand better.
They ignore Sapi's finding with the cyst form and chronic nature. I just don't see how they can ignore her work - or that of so many others.
It has to be this campaign of viciousness that closes their minds, eyes, hearts - and fluffs their egos, I guess.
We all simply stand up to that viciousness but then are accused of all kinds of things. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Kris Newby of Under Our Skin has done a fantastic job of getting these documents out into the public domain. However, they kept Kris waiting a full five years before releasing them, when legally they should have handed them over a few weeks after her request.
I would suggest that, although the documents certainly show the pally relationship between the Denialist government officials who doled out the grants, and the greedy Denialists who received them, nevertheless you'll notice the emails are peppered with references to fighting on behalf of "evidence-based medicine" and supposedly to prevent harm to patients.
I would suggest that CDC, NIH and our own British public health agency spent those five years "sanitising" the 3000 emails before they released them to Kris.
Elena
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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lpkayak
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"You are taking a BIG chunk out of their wallet when you scream and shout about how awful everything they've touched turns out- like lab tests, research funding, vaccines, etc."
best argument i've heard yet for us to continue to SCREAM AND SHOUT! LOUD!!!
i applaud all of you who can still do it and send my prayers and energy to you when you do
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
And another big chunk of the wallet/insurance wallet goes to all the various medical disciplines that see Lyme patients - we go to everyone. We keep them in business. It's very unfortunate, how dishonest it all is.
So, I don't call them doctor anymore if they fail to want to understand the illness. Dr. should mean Dr., as in they went to medical school and trained in a field to help the public.
If they are refusing to look at what we really have, then they are not doctoring - they are obfuscating.
When I call a doctor by their first name, they know I am protesting, and I tell them why. It's time to withdraw the respect of the term if they have none for us and what we're going through.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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kgg
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I have seen it suggested that when the opponent starts with name calling that it indicates they are losing the argument.
I am underwhelmed by their professionalism.
Posts: 1856 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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poppy
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I am not surprised when sociopaths get into a field, say medicine. But what I will never understand is why the establishment lets them get away with it. It must be obvious by now to the bosses from all the activism that a giant mistake has been made, yet they do nothing to correct it. This is what is so frightening.
Dishonesty and criminal conduct don't just stay neatly in that one area, it spills over and contaminates widely. Does anyone here now still have any respect for the CDC or NIH? They may be doing good things in some areas, but how can we trust this? Without verification, which we can't do outside the tickborne disease field, who can believe them anymore.
What I wonder is how many of the rallies and protests that happen are actually brought to the attention of the right people. If not, it is like the tree that falls in the forest but no one is there to hear it.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Although many of the Denialist doctors featured in the FOIA'd emails do have conflicts of interest with biotech or insurance companies, I think it is essential to recognise that the ultimate cause of our situation is the fact that Borrelia infection is a biological warfare issue.
The two government officials featured - McSweegan and Baker - are both biowarfare scientists. The military has an interest in obfuscating the facts about borreliosis.
Here in Britain where I live the country's Lyme testing is now handled entirely by Porton down, our biowar lab.
I have more info on my website for this, for anyone interested:
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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poppy
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Sorry, I don't think this is a biowarfare issue. Look at other totally fouled up health problems like chronic fatigue and autism, attention deficit. They get things wrong.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Rivendell
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No one wants to do much research, unless there is going to be a huge payoff, such as a pharaceutical drug. It's about money.
Insurance companies don't want to pay out a lot of money, they just want to get rich.
So, good research is ignored. And good treatment is ignored.
But knowing this, I still really don't understand how money and power could corrupt to this extent. I guess you can't have a conscious, which is what being a sociopath is all about.
And, this trend is becoming the norm.
I find it very shallow. I couldn't live that way.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Robin, love the first name thing Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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beaches
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quote:Originally posted by kgg: I have seen it suggested that when the opponent starts with name calling that it indicates they are losing the argument.
I am underwhelmed by their professionalism.
Yes, absolutely!
How very scary and sobering that this is about SCIENTISTS and SCIENCE, and not about some junior high school students.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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beaches
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Robin, excellent point, and I totally agree!
TC and ELB, thank you both so very much for all you've done already.
And thank you both for your continued efforts and hard work in educating and advocating for our community and our doctors.
And most importantly, THANK YOU for continuing to fight the good fight.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Poppy, don't forget that there is an overlap between the diagnoses you mentioned, and Lyme - in some cases, perhaps, a massive overlap. Look at Samuel Shor's statistics on ME/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome being diagnosed in people with Lyme, for example.
And as you know, not only our own Dr Bransfield, but also the world-renowned Nobel Prize winner Prof Luc Montagnier believe that borrelia infection is at the root of at least some cases of autism.
If you don't believe this is a biowarfare issue, I invite you to read some of the article I have written on this subject eg:
and also to examine the evidence in the Lyme chapter of Michael Carroll's best-selling book "Lab 257", available via Amazon.
Elena
quote:Originally posted by poppy: Sorry, I don't think this is a biowarfare issue. Look at other totally fouled up health problems like chronic fatigue and autism, attention deficit. They get things wrong.
-------------------- Justice will be ours. Posts: 786 | From UK | Registered: Oct 2007
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Razzle
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Yes, this type of stuff happens in other medical fields as well.
Cancer, for example.
A search on PubMed.gov reveals tons of natural cures and tools for prevention (vitamins, herbs, essential oils, etc.), yet the ACS and many, many cancer societies & organizations IGNORE the science and continue to support the search for a magic drug to "cure" cancer.
It all comes down to GREED...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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randibear
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Hate to sAy it but I wish some of these people could walk in our shoes. Or better yet...get lyme and then see what they say....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
The CFS cover-up is orchestrated in the same way and with the same abuse and denigration of the patient as the Lyme cover-up.
The neurological damage and ongoing infection due to vector-borne diseases has been written out of the care programme in the UK for over 20 years.
CFS or Myalgic Encephalomyelitis as it was originally called was first studied in the UK during an epidemic outbreak at the Royal Free hospital.
When I read the original paper, I was intrigued to discover that the victims, all in that inner London area, and including nurses and doctors as well as patients, had their blood checked for, amongst other microbes of course, the tick-borne virus Louping Ill.
About 18 months later, a PhD student psychiatrist made his reputation by writing up the whole outbreak as hysteria - and thus began the cover-up, from the mid 1950s onwards. A.
[ 06-06-2013, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 180 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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Vector-borne diseases have been the most studied biological warfare agents in history. It's glaringly obvious that this situation of negelct and denial and abuse could not take place
without clear direction from those at the very top of protecting public health - and they are those public health servants under oath, military oath, who dare not speak out.
There will come a time when too many have been infected, too many of their own families and friends, and maybe they will make scapegoats of certain lower grade officers as they gradually admit to the problem.
[ 06-06-2013, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 180 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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