Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
Vets, nutritionists, and dog forums have no answers for me... So I thought I would come here... Because you all have more info about food and nutrition and health than anyone I know. so I offer you this puzzle to help solve.
background: My boy Cash, who is now Almost 7 has always been a chow hound. He is a big boned dense little thing who should weigh about 18lbs... He also has allergies too many things. And can't tolerate a rabies vaccine. From a puppy he was always ravenous. I don't mean hungry like a dog...but trolling the kitchen floor for crumbs and nothing distracting him... And so hungry that he would he eat his own poop. Once he realized we were picking it up before he could get it he twisted himself into a pretzel to try and get it on the way out. We tried many different foods... Was really strict with treats...but still at his highest weight he was 25lbs. At one point we switched to commercial raw (low carb) and he lost some weight but was still ravenous
At a year old... We thought we would lose him... On a Tuesday he had a fever, emergency vet, next day fine, next day wracking with chills... Tick titer came out negative but they started him on intravenous doxy... Next day fine...on Friday he was lame. Vet got us in to a neurologist cause "he was going down" her words... $3500 of tests later they had no answers so sent him with doxy and antirobe (which I think is canine clyndimicin) and prednisone if the abx didn't work. They did. This was my first experience with TBD's I think. But this was also after a rabies shot, and he had another immune modulated reaction after his next rabies shot this time it was pancreatitis... Both happened 13 days exactly after the shot... He'll never get another rabies shot... But I am not certain the first was tbd.
In any case he survived both there is no sign of elevated pancreatitis enzymes... And he seems ok in the joint department too.
The Miraculous Puzzle: About 3 years ago, he was having especially terrible allergies, ears, skin, eyes...this was also when he was 24lbs. my vet just suggested we try switching to the bison formula of the raw food we were feeding just to see (his allergy tests were negative.
Well, in two weeks his eyes cleared up, in a month his ears and skin. He stopped eating his poop. He stopped being ravenous, and he just started losing weight. He got down to 17.5 lbs. Hallelujah... Mind you we had been feeding him the same brand, same calories,just the chicken or beef version like we feed our other dog
Well... About a year ago, the dog food company stopped making the bison formula. I tried cooking for him. A failure in so many ways... He was allergic to the supplements and got hot spots again, and that was a relief cause I just couldn't keep it up. So we switched him to the lamb version of the raw. He is not ravenous on lamb, has not developed hot spots or ear infections, he is not eating his poop. But he is back up to 22lbs! And we are not giving him any more treats and his walks are the same.
What could possibly be in bison that works so well for him?
He was happier lighter. He has slightly deformed front legs. And I think it was easier on him.
Any Ideas?
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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BoxerMom
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Member # 25251
posted
We had a Boxer who was allergic to birds! We never would have known if SIL/BIL's Lab hadn't had the same condition.
We also fed a lamb formula. She had scabs on her head, itchy skin and ears, and gunk in her ears.
I read that many dog foods are fortified with products that come from chicken. Look for mixed tocopherols (sometimes listed as Vitamin E). It's a preservative in lots of dog foods, even high-end natural foods.
I believe the fats are sourced from poultry. Wherever they are from, they seem to be setting off allergic reactions in lots of dogs.
Go to a very simple food with few ingredients, or do a version of the elimination diet. You'll have to prepare his food, but you'll learn where the problems lie.
Allergies are weird in dogs. They cause unexpected symptoms. Maybe he does have low-grade inflammation in his pancreas.
Our girl got pancreatitis and couldn't make digestive enzymes anymore. She was famished! But she dropped weight. We had to supplement her food with enzymes so she could absorb it.
As for the weight gain, is his blood sugar normal? Normal insulin and cortisol?
I would keep adjusting the diet, since that worked so well in the past.
Our girl liked buffalo and yams when we cooked them for her. And that eliminated all of her allergies.
Good luck! Pet health problems can be so complicated, and they are at the mercy of what we and the vets can figure out. And we want to do right by our fur family.
posted
My breeder suggested a brand "Call of the Wild" bison type for one of our pups. It's supposedly all meat protein and no fillers etc.
Not exactly sure why this meat type would affect your dog so positively or why she recommended it.
Sure is a mystery!
Posts: 867 | From PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
kudzu-I can't answer nutrition wise, but I want to thank you and boxermom for starting and commenting in this thread. I love reading stories about dogs.
My girl use to be a chow hound too. If I ate something she really liked (pizza crusts) in front of her she would start drooling.
When she was younger, she figured out how to climb up on the kitchen counter (all 60lbs of her) and eat anything she could find.
She also managed to break in to the cat box many times, although I had all sorts of gates up.
Border collie lab cross.
I seem to recall she had problems with turkey based foods.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Carol in PA
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Member # 5338
posted
Do dogs need beneficial gut bacteria like people do? If your dog has had antibiotics, his gut bacteria may be out of balance.
I suggest giving him some form of Kefir for the probiotics it contains. When I was reading about Kefir several years ago, I remember that many people said they fed either the Kefir or the Kefir grains to their pets. One woman soaked the grain for her chickens in Kefir!
If the animal is lactose intolerant, you can let the Kefir process until it has changed all the lactose. Or you could use coconut milk. If you don't want to learn to work with Kefir grains, you could try the starter powder. When I make Kefir with the starter powder, I notice that my digestion improves and any gas decreases and has almost no aroma.
posted
Does any of the food your feeding contain grains?
This was a huge deal for us- and we only recently figured it out with the help of a new vet- dogs don't digest grain and it causes inflammation and hunger!
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
Hi all. Thank you for putting your heads to this. He does get a human probiotic. And we eliminated grains early on. Digestive Enzymes seemed to make him hungrier. We consulted a canine nutritionist. His hunger is under control on the lamb. And he seems healthy except he is gaining weight on the lamb where his weight stabilized on the bison (which is no longer available in this brand) I may try another brand, but it has more veggies in it... And I worry cause I know in the past when we tried to add veggies (cooked and puréed cause dogs can't digest raw veggies) to fill him up it made him hungrier even though he was still getting the same amount of real food. He's really an all meat canine.
Since you like dog stories I'll just share a smile. The other day i was in vacation,I slept late... Cash came to wake me up early on... Butting my limp hand with his head to get me to pat him... He soon gave up. But 1.5 hrs later... He jumped up again and did his "they call me flipper" head butt to my hand until I woke up and rubbed his head and all over... Way better than an alarm clock.
My other dogs name is Jasper they are both Havanese. They are pretty much my first pets. I am very allergic to all Animals even poodles... But I am not allergic to this breed. Jasper will be 8 in January, Cash will be 7 in November. They are really my yin and yang. Not only are the opposite colors (jas is white with gray ears, cash is black with a white chest and feet) they are completely opposite personalities.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Love the "wake up now!" story! LOL! My dogs do the same thing. They begin their coordinated efforts to get us up to feed them every morning at 7:30...LOL..
One last thought from me- have you thought about adrenal glands at all? I only ask because I know it can cause weight change and lesions/hot spots.
My last rescue has some issues with hormone/adrenals. She is very hyper/nervous and it's taken a long time to get her system calm at all. She was traumatized before we got her, so it makes sense in our case for it to be adrenals.
But also her weight has gone up and down without variation of food or amount of food. She also breaks out and has allergies. This dog also has had a severe reaction to vaccines.
We are just starting to get a handle on this stuff but we had to switch to an integrative vet to do it!
Just a thought!! Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Ellen101
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posted
My NP feeds her dog bison. She purchases bison patties for people. If you are interested I can see where she orders it.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
Ellen, I would love to know her source. I will pm you. Daynise, I will have to think back on adrenals.
At one pioint. we were trying to treat my older dogs low thyroid homeopathicly. I believe that included adrenal support. This was just a spray in their water bowl. If I could line up the timing I could see if it coincided with Cash's miraculous transformation. it did nothing for Jasper's levels so he is on meds. Cash's blood work is all normal by the way, We were really surprised jasper had the thyroid issue and Cash.
But we all know tests don't really mean anything... Cash definitely has a sensitivity to carbs... But tests for diabetes, cushinngs, Addison's, and thyroid all come up negative.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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Dogsandcats
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posted
Our Springer is on Call of the Wild. She still has allergies-scratching- but it is mild. Mostly this food helped her stomach problems.
We also feed her Nutrigest, a supplement that was the best treatment for her tummy.
I think the breeder we got her from was less than stellar- but we would not trade her for the world!
We are getting a springer puppy next week....different breeder..
Life will change- again!
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
My dog took a turn for the worse after a three year rabies shot. Has a mast cell tumor on her eye now and lyme disease.
The mast cell tumor went misdiagnosed unfortunately and she also has allergies.
We've had some problems with her when it comes to certain meats. She does really well though on venison and on rabbit but seems to have a problem with bird meats.
We've used both Primal and Stella and Chewy's and she loves them both.
I have heard when dogs eat poop they are trying to get extra nutrients so I wonder as well if there is an issue with the gut and the absorption of nutrients. May want to give the yogurt or probiotics a try.
-------------------- Just a catepillar, full of imaginal buds. Posts: 143 | From Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I'm a cat person, but have been through a lot of nutrition puzzles for my cats. Do you have an integrative or holistic vet? They tend to be so much more attentive to nutrition, allergies, etc. I get an excellent probiotic from my vet, called Proviable, which might be worth trying. Have you tried homeopathy? My asthmatic cat was completely cured that way. Good luck!
Posts: 431 | From New England | Registered: Dec 2011
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Kudzuslipper
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posted
Atta, sorry bout your springer. It is so hard when the things we do to "protect" them fail them. I wish her the best.
I may try the primal... They have a bison formula.
Thanks all. What an amazing group. Please keep the ideas coming.
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
posted
Didn't mean to be short Tutu. Also zero grains (no potatoes either) We feed Nature's Variety frozen raw. It is 95% meat, bone, muscles and organs and 5% fruits and vegetables.
There may be a clue. DH used to take the boys to the park for their morning walk, but unbeknownst to me, roadwork has kept them around the block since last spring. Back at the park today... I'm thinking maybe a faster longer walk at the park.
But the switch from chicken or beef to bison was remarkable way back when... I wish I could figure out what is in Bison (or not in) that isn't in other meats.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Just a thought. In the paleo movement there has been a movement towards eating grassfed protein, and away from confined feedlot animals which are fed GMO high omega6 grains and legumes (corn, soy).
The grassfed protein has a better omega3:omega6 ratio, and may be less inflammatory. No GMO problems with grassfed either. I think both bison and lamb would fall into this catagory.
That's why our family eats lamb, bison and wild salmon.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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Kudzuslipper
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Member # 31915
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Rowing, I'm coming to your house for dinners... I think that may be a good point about grass fed. We are trying more and more to do it for ourselves... It's hard to know what's really in dog food even the good stuff.
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Carol in PA
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posted
We tried ground bison from the supermarket several years ago, and the flavor was very much like beef.
When we looked online for information about the company, it said that they "finished" their bison with corn, just as beef cattle are in the feedlots.
So don't assume that all bison is grass fed. It may be finished with corn before slaughtering.
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I tried cooking for him. A failure in so many ways... He was allergic to the supplements and got hot spots again, and that was a relief cause I just couldn't keep it up. So we switched him to the lamb version of the raw. He is not ravenous on lamb, has not developed hot spots or ear infections, he is not eating his poop. But he is back up to 22lbs! And we are not giving him any more treats and his walks are the same. 
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