-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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beaches
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posted
As long as it's making money, it won't be taken off the market.
And as long as parents just follow what they're told they need to do for their children, without questioning why, children will continue to die from this unnecessary vaccine.
What a tragedy for this family and so many others.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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GretaM
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posted
Makes me sick to my stomach.
Parents need to open their eyes and research.
Assuming drug companies have lives in mind is deadly.
Drug companies have the bottom line in mind. Always have always will.
Would rant on about vaccine deaths but buttons on phone tricky. Haha. Feel Like thumbs are size of golf balls. Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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surprise
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posted
Can't even go here. I have 2 young daughters, they know us well at our Ped's office, good relationship, but if they ever ask me about this 'shot'...
think I need to rehearse an answer in a mirror a few times that doesn't include strong swear words and my face distorting into hate.
At the same time, hope by now they have a skull and crossbones symbol in our files indicating asking mom about more vaccines (pun intended.)
By the way, yes, my kids are vaccinated, but not with the insane amount of boosters constantly being added.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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beaches
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posted
LOL surprise, I imagine my daughters' files are filled with notes!
Thankfully our peds is of the same mindset re: gardasil vaccine and others.
My kids are vaccinated too. In recent years, I've had their titers checked prior to receiving boosters, only to find they have immunity and booster shots are unnecessary.
New parents need to understand that their newborns have underdeveloped immune systems.
There is little to no logic I have seen to warrant the onslaught of vaccines given to newborns.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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Judie
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posted
I never even heard of HPV until this vaccine came out.
Are the bad effects of HPV really that common?
From the cloudy data I can find on the Internet, it looks like most people have some form of HPV and it doesn't cause any problems.
Am I missing something???
This is the only article I found that makes sense:
"Governor Jerry Brown has signed AB499, which allows children age 12 and up to consent to the triple jab Gardasil from Merck for genital warts without parental consent."
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
I think there is little to no logic in the anti-vaccination movement. I have just as much distrust in the privatized medical system we have as the next person, however, I think vaccines are one of the few great public health successes. That doesn't mean that every vaccine is a good idea.
A vaccine can be a dead virus, attenuated or live virus, or bits of viral proteins. How are vaccines the biggest threat to your child's immune system? I mean really? Their immune system is bombarded at that age with things...a weakened virus that can't cause disease would seem to me to be the least of your body's worries.
A vaccine essentially teaches your immune system to be able to more effectively respond to an actual infection of the live virus. Risk of measles shot: Mild irritation at injection site or allergic reaction in less than 1 out of a million doses. Risk of measles: pneumonia, a serious lung infection, lifelong brain damage, deafness, and even death.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
I was in my mid 20s when the gardisil shot came out. I quickly got mine before my insurance company would not pay.
Why don't I want to "take my chances" with HPV? Because I have had TWO friends get the aggressive form of HPV. Both had health insurance received regular pap smears, so it was caught.
Both of my friends had to have surgery, one had part of her cervix removed and is lucky in that she can MOST LIKELY still carry a pregnancy to term.
HPV causes abnormal cell changes, so if you contract the aggressive form, you have to monitor it. Because while most HPV can be cleared by your body, some don't. Those are the ones that can cause cancer. They have begun linking oral HPV to oral cancer now.
Why do I care so much? Because I contracted one of the "harmless" types of HPV from a boyfriend. One of the strains not covered by the vaccine. The treatment was painful. Because of my compromised immune system and lyme, I do not know if I have fully cleared it.
I do not know if this is something I could potentially spread to future partners. HPV can be a lifelong virus, even if over time your body gets it under control..you can still spread it.
There is no evidence that the HPV vaccine has directly caused any deaths. It is possible to have an adverse reaction or go into anaphylaxis, but your chances of that are on par with getting struck by lightening.
If I ever have daughters, I would 100% consider getting this vaccine. It has been extensively tested for safety.
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posted
Vaccines undergo a standard of 3 clinical trials, as well as post licensure safety evaluations. These are reported via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).
THEN they use that data to do studies that help determine if possible side effects identified using VAERS are *actually* related to vaccination. The information on that CDC site isn't claiming that the vaccine definitively CAUSED those events.
You are claiming that MANY young girls have died as a result of this vaccine. The 32 death reports were reviewed and there was no common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. The VSD will search for any links, thus far none have been found.
Correlation does not imply causation. If there is a link determined, it will be picked up in post-clincical safety evaluations.Case in point: Man gets flu shot. Later dies of heart attack. Death reported in VAERS.
Is it possible that a death occurred post vaccination, or that those two woman had an unusual neurological illness because of the shot? Sure. But with millions of doses given..that's only 0.03928571% of the vaccinated population having an adverse reaction.
In 2010 11,818 women in the United States were diagnosed with cervical cancer. 3,939 women in the United States died from cervical cancer that year. They took their chances, so to say.
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posted
Well, are you implying that the HPV vaccine is killing young woman? Where is your scientific data to back up such an assertion? Is this viewpoint related to all vaccines or just this one in particular?
It's not out of the realm of possibility that that young woman died of hypotensive anaphylactic shock, but usually that type of shock is pretty obvious, with pruritis, urticaria, or dyspnea. What's not clear is whether or not she had a completely unrelated undiagnosed medical problem.
VAERS reporting largely consists individuals who had a medical problem after receiving the shot, but there is no causative proof showing the vaccine was responsible as of yet.
As someone who's suffered from HPV, "harmless" is a subjective term. I underwent painful nitrogen freezing treatments, topical creams that caused intense burning (that cost me $150), and no guarantee that I would clear the infection.
To some people, the less than 1% chance of having a mild reaction at the injection site, or the 0.00016651% of a chance of going into anaphylaxis from the shot, might not be worth it. But exposure to HPV causes the cancer, not failure to clear HPV. That's how the vaccine prevents cancer.
HPV might not sound threatening to people out of the high risk dating game, but as someone who has never had children, the thought that 10,000 woman contract cervical cancer each year, and some of those woman die or undergo hysterectomy's doesn't seem worth it to me, since there is no cure for HPV.
If anyone can provide data showing that this particular vaccine is unsafe, by all means post it. A hysterical fox news report isn't scientifically valid. Here is a recent 2013 study on HPV vaccine safety:
posted
Maia, you were lucky that you did not have problems from the gardasil shot. I'm happy for you.
But others have died or become crippled from it. I did my research when CA went for it. I don't have the urls from then, I just know I had them then. Total tragedies. I also spoke with the anti-gardasil campaign and heard about more reactive cases.
I testified before the school board in SF and said don't do it. They agreed. This is one county that will not follow any state law as they are aware of possible consequences and do not wish to kill or maim any students.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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beaches
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posted
Maia, perhaps you should hold your opinion until you are faced with vaccinating a newborn with numerous shots (many more than even 20 years ago) and/or are faced with vaccinating very sick children with compromised immune systems.
There are plenty of other mothers here who will second that. We know what we know from EXPERIENCE and discussions with physicians.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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surprise
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posted
Maia no offense, but you are completely out of touch to what is happening out here in the real world with young children.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Keebler
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posted
Oh yes, I always believe the CDC. Yepper. Sure. Right.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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poppy
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posted
I think the CDC has decided that if they admit to vaccine problems, everyone will just stop taking them. They must figure that some casualties along the way don't matter if the majority are protected.
What other explanation could there be for such stonewalling? Some do have vaccine patents and presumably make money, which means they might be less than truthful on the subject.
IMO this was a terrible decision on the part of Congress to allow CDC and NIH employees to personally profit from things under their jurisdiction professionally. A real conflict of interest. Leaving us to wonder when they are telling the truth and when they aren't.
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Breaking up paragraph...
[ 08-15-2014, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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surprise
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OMG, I need a break from the Internet. I refuse to get into a vaccine debate.
Just this morning I read a thread on a private group I am on where many mothers painfully told their REAL LIFE stories about LOSING their children after vaccines. It was a congenital Lyme group, and a vaccine triggered the disease into action. I am not even speaking about autism!
I have been reading for years these tragic stories in relation to autism, ADHD. NOT ONE HAD BEEN REPORTED TO THE CDC.
Just like when I tried to report my positive Lyme test, no- one to report it to! They do not want to know! The vaccine manufacturers even have a law that they cannot be sued! A 'special appointed' separate court!
The CDC spends millions counteracting the truth about their excessive and damaging vaccines, and vaccine schedule. Wake up! We are destroying our youth!
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
If I am so completely "out of touch" with what is happening with young children, where is the evidence of all this malfeasance? If 32 woman "died" or were "maimed" by the HPV vaccine, one would assume a positive correlation was found.
That no one has linked the deaths in any readable pattern, makes your claim suspect. You don't know, but you WANT it to be true because it fits in nicely with your predetermined beliefs.
Posting links to websites with authors peddling books to sell ON the subject matter isn't an unbiased source. I get it that the medical community has failed many of us with lyme disease, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy lurking in every facet of public health.
Our privatized health care industry may be inept at treating chronic disease, but that doesn't mean that we haven't taken great leaps forward in other areas.
My problem with the Anti-vaccine movement is, it is hysterical anecdotal claims that have not lived up to scrutiny. One of those links takes aim at herd immunity, but doesn't even seem to understand the concept. Many vaccines do not induce lifelong immunity and require boosters.
This is not a failure of vaccination as there are usually enough children being vaccinated as to not pose a public health risk, thus a booster as adults is usually unnecessary.
Finally, I know it's easy to equate Big Pharma with all things bad, but i don't think many of you even understand how vaccines are developed.
Basic research for vaccines comes from the government via the NIH. The data is published in peer-reviewed literature.
It can take half a billion dollars to license a vaccine, thus research into development of vaccines is not going to occur unless there is a real public need
as those companies will not take risks to development a vaccine with no guarantee the FDA will allow a license and they can recoup their expenses and make money.
I have an autistic family member, and there was once a point in time that I believed that he may have developed autism from the MMR vaccine. But the new research coming out is starting to show pretty direct evidence of a prenatal origin. Thus autism arises from genetic susceptibility and yet unknown environmental factors.
It can be pretty compelling to claim a vaccine gave a child autism, but the reverse is that they are given the vaccination right at the time of development of autistic symptoms.
No one disputes that for a very small percentage of the population, immune dysfunction can occur when exposed to a vaccine.
We understand how the dysfunction occurs, but without knowing the exact genetic and phenotypic makeup of every single person, predicting exactly who is going to be affected is impossible.
You also can't discount the fact that many people have underlying medical issues that may or may not have been triggered.
But based on the large amount of credible evidence available, risks from vaccines are minimal, and the benefits are huge and greatly outweigh what small risk there is. That is why each person must weight the pros and cons individually.
If vaccines arent safe then someone should do a proper study, publish it in a peer reviewed journal, have their observations verified by independant third parties.
Edward Jenner tested his initial hypothesis in 1796. That is 218 years worth of evidence that vaccines work.
Polio has seen a 99.9% reduction since the WHO began its eradication program.
If vaccines on the market aren't safe, why hasn't that come out in the past 200 years? The data is all public, surely someone out there can extrapolate it and prove it?
Of course you are all free to read mommy blogs and websites created by health guru's looking for profits to be had on scaring you all.
Science is super important in our fight against Lyme disease, and in the end, science will prevail as peer reviewed research comes out.
Until someone can present compelling research into vaccine induced dysfunctions that are as widespread as you claim, I'm disinclined to support internet hoaxes.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- The work of Robert Kennedy, Jr. is a wealth of excellent information. It really is. Sadly, the government would not listen to him.
Please don't let the government "experts" and the puppets behind them cloud the truth. Much of the "accepted" studies re: autism / vaccines are contrived and ignore a great deal of evidence and correlations. He could talk, interact perfectly . . . until that set of shots.
I've seen it with my own eyes, with a friend's child. Fine little lad . . . and all of the sudden, right after a new round of vaccines, he was autistic overnight. No other variables for him.
To overlook the wealth of information that Kennedy compiled with doctors, parents, etc. . . . well, it's going to cause more harm by ignoring that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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beaches
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posted
Maia, you are assuming that "we" are part of an anti-vaccine "movement." You are mistaken.
It is one thing to give a child vaccines to prevent polio and meningitis. Gardasil and flu vaccines are a whole other ball of wax.
You want evidence? My "evidence" was watching my child have an adverse reaction to the flu vaccine. And watching the other as a newborn having an adverse reaction to the DTP vaccine.
That doesn't meet your criteria as my observations of my children were not conducted in a CDC lab and officially documented.
Physicians have told me it is not prudent to vaccinate a child with chronice lyme whose immune system is compromised., unless absolutely necessary.
And even then a protocol cosisting of herbs, homeopathic and supplements should be followed so as to minimize vaccine side effects or reactions.
So like I said, perhaps you should reserve your opinion on children and vaccines until you have a child or two of your own.
posted
There is a special vaccine court because some people have an immune dysfunction when exposed to a vaccine. With 30-40 vaccines given to each person that means you're going to have a few thousand people with adverse reactions. The court has never found that a vaccine is deadly or overtly harmful to the population at large.
No, I don't have children yet. But I would vaccinate them on an alternative schedule for things they *would* be at risk for. It's rather bizarre to think that people really believe that a weakened virus that can't cause disease is MORE harmful than actually getting the disease itself.
Risk of measles shot: Mild irritation at injection site or allergic reaction in less than 1 out of a million doses. Risk of measles: pneumonia, a serious lung infection, lifelong brain damage, deafness, and even death.
I would 100% embraced a Lyme disease vaccine if it was found to not interfere with diagnostic testing or induce a negative immune response, which seems to be a concern with the original vaccine.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- It's not just the vaccine that is the question here, it's all the additives in them, too.
It's not about vaccine theory, but all the other chemicals, neurotoxins in those shots.
I also had my own experience, twice, with vaccines as an adult. I cannot describe the neuro damage in just overnight, with each of those, too (years apart. One a flu shot, the other a tetanus booster). And the neuro damage has never left me.
Tests for heavy metals help connect some dots but there should be ZERO HEAVY METALS in anyone's vaccines. Zero. And the same for the other additives. They must be held to a higher, proper, standard of safety that totally eludes them now. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I have adverse reactions to the flu shot. I used to have to get them in half doses as they would induce 3 days of fever and swollen lymph nodes.
But, as a person with asthma and chronic immune dysfunction, the short 3 days of discomfort was more preferable to dying from a respiratory infection, which would have been way more damaging to my immune state. Its always a cost/benefit for each individual.
For DTP, I would still vaccinate despite the slight chance of adverse reaction. Whooping cough can induce pneumonia, encephalopathy, earache, or seizures.
Children die from it, most deaths occur among infants younger than 3 months of age.
The fact that more deaths don't occur is because most people choose to vaccinate. If we reversed to a state without vaccination, I'm sure people would be clamoring for vaccines once their children began suffering and dying from preventable diseases.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Again, missing the point.
We don't have to just take the toxic shots as offered, suggested, required. We can change that - insist on a full list of all safe ingredients.
But we have to also not bury our heads in the sand about it. Why so many are willing to ignore the toxic additives is beyond me. We must start looking for safer ways, that will be safer for all, not just the lucky ones who manage to not be affected. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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surprise
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posted
Maia, sorry for your relative with autism.
Honestly, I didn't read past the next few lines of your post.
We have very different views/ read different studies / read different evidence on this issue.
I am signing out on this thread. There is a lot more I could say, links to posts, citations,
but I am just not interested.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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I find your comment interesting. Because, could not your neuro symptoms be originating from lyme? It's entirely possible and no one disputes that vaccines can induce immune dysfunction, but if you have an underlying immune dysfunction, it's hard to point fingers at a vaccine.
Of course, the antigen in the vaccine could have triggered a response, yet, a lot of my neuro symptoms may have been triggered by natural antigens. I worked in a horse barn 2 years ago, never had a horse allergy in my life. Suddenly, I can't even be around horses.
Did being in the barn trigger this allergy? Sure, but I'm willing to bet its the Lyme that is making me more susceptible.
That's why I think the vaccine debate is interesting in immune dysfunction. But what would be a more interesting question would be, if I have an adverse reaction to a flu shot..can we dismiss the idea that actually contracting the full blown flu be MORE adverse to my immune system?
Same thing with the fly vaccine, you don't have to give it to your infant..but if your infant is premature, the greater risk is the flu. Infants die every winter at hospitals with the flu, so its not theoretical. Its a risk you run with not vaccinating, which may be more or less than vaccinating.
I got the Pneumonia vaccine last year after developing asthma (from my allergies). Did this vaccine contribute to my very sudden decline over the next 6 months? It's possible.
But I also know I am now not at risk of developing Pneumonia in my lungs, which is important to me as I am very sick, have asthma and two strains of active Mycoplasma pneumonia.
I am hesitant to blame my decline on a vaccine, as there are plenty of other reasons for my decline. I know stress was a huge part of my relapse this time. I may have decline rapidly because of my vaccine, or it is just coincidental.
Either way, without my rapid decline I would not have sought help and be under the care of an LLMD now.
I too have wondered about the additives in vaccines. The vaccines do need preservatives, and the amounts are so low, most people find it negligible. I'm actually more concerned with the chemicals people rub on their skin, under their arms, and whats in our food.
A minute amount of preservative injected in the muscle, I'm not sure there is enough evidence to prove harm. Though, I always request a thermerisol free flu shot
I am completely willing to read different evidence. Probably more willing than you are as evidenced by some of the attitudes here. I read the literature, lots of it.
No one here has actually posted a link to a citation besides me. All that is posted here is a link to a fox news article (fox news, hardly trustworthy) and a webpage of some random guy who sells nutritional supplements.
IF there is alot more you can say, then you are free to say it. I think most people would be interested in actual real data. I WANT to believe, in fact I was pretty convinced once by RFK JR's article a few years back. But it millions of people receive vaccines each year and less than 1% report an adverse event, and every death so far cannot be conclusively linked to the vaccine, then its hard to get on that boat.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Maia,
Immediate damage - ER, convulsions . . . 2 hours after the shot, each time. Other neuro symptoms, too.
Don't know how that is not directly related. Within 2 hours, I nearly died, twice, and left so much worse in so many ways, even today. That was 1987 & 1993.
I was not diagnosed with lyme and other TBD until 1997, but likely did have it long before. Still, until the vaccines, I was managing. They caused real damage to me that would not have occurred had I not had them.
Just because there are other factors does not lessen the damage caused.
Does a person who has other factors not also deserve a shot that is safe? A shot free of mercury, formaldehyde, etc.? I say: yes. Everyone does.
We need to make vaccines safer for all. There is no reason for status quo any longer. Too many have been damaged. The problems are not fixed by saying, well, a certain percentage will always suffer some side-effects. This is damage. Not just side-effects.
And, as a nation, we just lie down and take it, hoping to be lucky to not be the "small percentage" - I don't think so.
And we also don't need a vaccine for everything.
And those who study and come to the decision to opt out, don't deserve to be mocked. This needs to be an individual's decision (or parents). Most who opt out are very well educated in the matter and are mindful of good health practices.
There are better ways to achieve health than just a vaccine for every thing in the world.
The money behind many of these is what's pushing the campaigns, not the interest of real people. The HPV vaccine has many flaws.
A Hep B vaccine does not need to be given to babies at birth - it's a body fluid transmitted disease. For crying out loud, babies, children are not in a high risk group at all. -
[ 08-14-2014, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I got the Pneumonia vaccine last year after developing asthma (from my allergies). Did this vaccine contribute to my very sudden decline over the next 6 months? It's possible. But I also know I am now not at risk of developing Pneumonia in my lungs, which is important to me as I am very sick, have asthma and two strains of active Mycoplasma pneumonia.
I am hesitant to blame my decline on a vaccine, as there are plenty of other reasons for my decline. I know stress was a huge part of my relapse this time. I may have decline rapidly because of my vaccine, or it is just coincidental.
- Think about it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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MannaMe
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posted
When I was in 3rd or 4th grade in school, the measles went through our classroom. Quite a few were out sick with measles. Including myself.
Not one of us had any life threatening events with the measles. We all recovered and went back to school.
My siblings had the measles also. I don't know of anyone who died or was seriously harmed by measles.
I wonder how many children actually die of the childhood diseases? Is that hyped up to scare people into getting vaccines?
Oh and my nephew who got the chicken pox vax had a worse case of chicken pox than his siblings with no chicken pox vaccines.
Posts: 2603 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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The problem with "those who opt out" is most of them aren't relying on scientific evidence.
The link between autism and vaccines started because in 1998 a physician in England claimed to have evidence showing a relationship. The "study" was based on reports from parents of 12 children, not a valid sample size.
That study has been retracted. When comparing rates of autism across the globe between vaccinated and vaccinated children, there was no correlation found.
So if a vaccine is causing autism, how come there is no correlation between the incidence of autism among vaccinated children and un-vaccinated children ACROSS the glove? Isn't that a bit suspect? "Think about it."
There are plenty of studies that look into this. It's nice to imagine medical research is done by evil Big Pharma corporations rubbing their hands together, but most vaccine research is done by NIH funded institutions and academic institutions.
Places like the one that brought us studies like the Tulane Primate study "Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi in Rhesus Macaques."
Research points to autism being caused by toxic exposures during pregnancy and complications disrupting brain processes before birth and shortly afterwards.
Mutations in the genes associated with autism can affect how the brain develops and functions, and this starts well before birth.
The brain can compensate to make up for the disrupted processes. But, symptoms will emerge when the disruption is sufficiently severe and the compensatory processes are no longer enough, which happens at specific points of time in development. There a replenty of studies tha tlook into this link:
"Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses"
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
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posted
Maia, my DD was given the flu shot because of severe asthma. The reaction she had to the shot was horrendous. Never again.
As for DTP, the majority of the time the reaction is from the pertussis portion. If an infant reacts, he/she can never get that portion of the vaccine again. Just ask any pediatrician.
You do realize that many, if not most adverse affects are not reported, right? My children's reactions weren't. So it's questionable as to just how "slight" the chances of adverse reactions are.
And despite not having any other pertussis booster since the first shot as an infant, my child has immunity to pertussis (tested titers).
In the old days, parents kept their infants at home for the first few months so as not to expose them to germs before their immune systems were developed (especially during the cold weather).
Nowadays, mothers pass their newborns from person to person to person and have them at the mall when they're a week old. I never believed in that. My babies were at home the first couple of months +.
I allowed immediate family to visit, but only if they did not have a cold and only after they washed their hands. Some could not understand why I was so strict about this, but that was their problem. Perhaps if more parents did this, risks to the newborns would be reduced.
The other thing is that vaccines are now combined - MMR, DTP for example. And often one of those is combined with Polio, Hep B, etc. It is just too much to subject a newborn to all of that at once.
Now, you can't even get a standalone measles vaccine. If your college-bound child is not immune to measles, he or she is forced to have the mumps and rubella portion of the shot as well, despite having immunity to those.
As for the varicella vaccine, I wish my youngest had gotten the chicken pox as a young child. Instead, she got the vaccine. Immunity wore off after a few years and we were faced with vaccinating her when she was very ill vs. taking a chance that she would get the disease when she is older. These are not easy decisions, to say the least.
Regarding autism, I am no expert on the subject by a long shot. And I thank God my family has not been hit with this horrendous condition. It is very, very difficult for parents who must deal with this on a daily basis.
But, having been a parent for 25 years, I must say that back in the day, I think I heard the word "autistic" 3 or 4 times. Fast forward years later, and all of a sudden every other kid it seems is on the spectrum. Why???
Well I certainly don't think it's a genetic thing. If it were, it would have been much more prevalent years back. People don't develop a huge upswing in genetic defects over the course of 20 years. And it's certainly not due to better diagnoses. It's pretty apparently early on in a child's life if he or she has autistic tendencies.
I speculate that the increase in autism could be due to environmental issues, the huge increase in the number of vaccines and/or tick-borne diseases.
posted
One of my relatives had the measles back in the 50s, I forget who. I do know that measles is one of the most contagious diseases in the world and is pretty serious disease. Worldwide the deaths were in the millions before vaccinations. It can cause blindess as well. The common diseases resulted in thousands of deaths, which is why vaccines were created.
Thousands of people contracting preventable dieases would be a strain on the health care system, and would impart a cost on the system. The money in the healthcae industry is in treating disease, not preventing it.
The only nefarious thing I can think of drug companies doing is trying to get their vaccines required for school children when they disease they are preventing don't pose a serious threat.
For Hepatitis, you can get it from fluids spread between family members, not just sexual contact. Health care workers are more at risk than babies, but it is a necessary vaccine for foreign travel.
The vaccine is more effective in children, meaning that protective levels of antibodies are reached and maintained throughout life as long as you are vaccinated young. That's why it is given to babies and not adults.
Some vaccines offer lifelong antibody protection when administered before a certain age, and why waiting is not endorsed.
posted
I wish I had had the chicken pox vaccine. I got shingles a few years back and had lingering nerve pain for a year. I blame my mother for that, she put me in the bathtub with my sibling with chicken pox. Any of lyme sufferers here have shingles?
Increases in autism is most def due to environmental issues, but the consensus is more geared to issues during pregnancy (toxic exposures or mother contracting a virus during pregnancy). I personally feel that if autism were link to a shot, it would be really easy to compare the data to non-vaccinated children, which has been done. I think that horse had been beaten pretty hard.
I would be nice to blame my sibling's autism on a MMR vaccine, and believe me, I've looked into it out of fear of having it happen to my own child someday..but it's not very likely to be linked. Immune systems must play a large role in the development of autism, but I think the better tree to bark at is the one when the child is in the womb.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I don't have shingles but I know of a lyme patient who does. I don't know whether she had chicken pox in childhood. She must have. My understanding is that the varicella virus has to be in your system already (from chicken pox) in order to develop Shingles. Shingles is very painful, that I know. Sorry to hear you've had it.
Odds are if you had the vaccine, the immunity would have worn off within a few years--that happened to most of the kids I know who got the shot.
As for the measles, that is one vaccine that I am on board with. Too bad you can no longer get it as a standalone shot. There have been measles outbreaks all over the country and on college campuses.
To me, measles, polio and meningitis vaccines are a must (timed apart and while on vaccine protocol mentioned earlier). As for the Hep B, Hib, Flu, Pneumonia, Gardisil, no thank you.
Regarding autism again, what in a mother's womb has changed so drastically from 20/25 years ago? If anything, pregnant women today are eating much more healthily than they did years ago. And what viral infection are we talking about here? Is there a new one out there affecting pregnant women all of a sudden?
posted
There is a theory that the reason so many are getting shingles now is that before the chicken pox vaccine, older people were regularly exposed to the chicken pox. That BOOSTED their immunity.
That made them LESS likely to get shingles. Nowadays, shingles is VERY common.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Maia .. Did you see this regarding vaccines?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
LT, yes, I've heard that as well. Little kids are much better getting the chicken pox vs. the vaccine in my opinion and experience, having one kid who got the disease and remains immune vs. having another one who got the shot whose immunity quickly wore off.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Hi everyone - please break up your paragraphs into one, two or three line units as many people here cannot read chunks of text - thx -
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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droid1226
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34930
posted
I scanned through this thread quickly, here's my take.
-I gotta agree with Maia on a lot of her statements. Even on her Causal vs. Correlation points. Though I hate that statement, scientifically it's true and undeniable. Try and prove a negative. That's all it is(for someone trying to state a case in their favor).
-The whole HPV and other vaccinations goes along with the "The Sacrifice of Few for the Good of Many" --said by someone smarter and healthier than myself.
-It's undeniable had this girl not gotten that shot that day, she'd be alive.
I do find this statement by Maia rather odd though....
--It's rather bizarre to think that people really believe that a weakened virus that can't cause disease is MORE harmful than actually getting the disease itself.--
-I'm not going to correct her incorrect (IMO) sentence, I'm just going to say that it's the "weakened virus" that can activate other devastating dormant viruses in a person. Because of other immune system problems.
I think we're kinda saying the same thing.
*sidenote--- another blonde haired, fair skinned girl that died after that vaccine. I've glanced at all 32 deaths....most of them look like the same girl. Idk what that means except maybe one bad genetic father 50 generations ago. Thanks pops..
Autism, ALS, Lyme is rampant in my family. Just depends on how much you like the dr that diagnosed you I guess(in my family)....
beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Still awaiting a response....
Regarding autism again, what in a mother's womb has changed so drastically from 20/25 years ago? If anything, pregnant women today are eating much more healthily than they did years ago. And what viral infection are we talking about here? Is there a new one out there affecting pregnant women all of a sudden?
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