-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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beaches
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posted
As long as it's making money, it won't be taken off the market.
And as long as parents just follow what they're told they need to do for their children, without questioning why, children will continue to die from this unnecessary vaccine.
What a tragedy for this family and so many others.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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GretaM
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posted
Makes me sick to my stomach.
Parents need to open their eyes and research.
Assuming drug companies have lives in mind is deadly.
Drug companies have the bottom line in mind. Always have always will.
Would rant on about vaccine deaths but buttons on phone tricky. Haha. Feel Like thumbs are size of golf balls. Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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surprise
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posted
Can't even go here. I have 2 young daughters, they know us well at our Ped's office, good relationship, but if they ever ask me about this 'shot'...
think I need to rehearse an answer in a mirror a few times that doesn't include strong swear words and my face distorting into hate.
At the same time, hope by now they have a skull and crossbones symbol in our files indicating asking mom about more vaccines (pun intended.)
By the way, yes, my kids are vaccinated, but not with the insane amount of boosters constantly being added.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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beaches
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posted
LOL surprise, I imagine my daughters' files are filled with notes!
Thankfully our peds is of the same mindset re: gardasil vaccine and others.
My kids are vaccinated too. In recent years, I've had their titers checked prior to receiving boosters, only to find they have immunity and booster shots are unnecessary.
New parents need to understand that their newborns have underdeveloped immune systems.
There is little to no logic I have seen to warrant the onslaught of vaccines given to newborns.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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Judie
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posted
I never even heard of HPV until this vaccine came out.
Are the bad effects of HPV really that common?
From the cloudy data I can find on the Internet, it looks like most people have some form of HPV and it doesn't cause any problems.
Am I missing something???
This is the only article I found that makes sense:
"Governor Jerry Brown has signed AB499, which allows children age 12 and up to consent to the triple jab Gardasil from Merck for genital warts without parental consent."
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
I think there is little to no logic in the anti-vaccination movement. I have just as much distrust in the privatized medical system we have as the next person, however, I think vaccines are one of the few great public health successes. That doesn't mean that every vaccine is a good idea.
A vaccine can be a dead virus, attenuated or live virus, or bits of viral proteins. How are vaccines the biggest threat to your child's immune system? I mean really? Their immune system is bombarded at that age with things...a weakened virus that can't cause disease would seem to me to be the least of your body's worries.
A vaccine essentially teaches your immune system to be able to more effectively respond to an actual infection of the live virus. Risk of measles shot: Mild irritation at injection site or allergic reaction in less than 1 out of a million doses. Risk of measles: pneumonia, a serious lung infection, lifelong brain damage, deafness, and even death.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
I was in my mid 20s when the gardisil shot came out. I quickly got mine before my insurance company would not pay.
Why don't I want to "take my chances" with HPV? Because I have had TWO friends get the aggressive form of HPV. Both had health insurance received regular pap smears, so it was caught.
Both of my friends had to have surgery, one had part of her cervix removed and is lucky in that she can MOST LIKELY still carry a pregnancy to term.
HPV causes abnormal cell changes, so if you contract the aggressive form, you have to monitor it. Because while most HPV can be cleared by your body, some don't. Those are the ones that can cause cancer. They have begun linking oral HPV to oral cancer now.
Why do I care so much? Because I contracted one of the "harmless" types of HPV from a boyfriend. One of the strains not covered by the vaccine. The treatment was painful. Because of my compromised immune system and lyme, I do not know if I have fully cleared it.
I do not know if this is something I could potentially spread to future partners. HPV can be a lifelong virus, even if over time your body gets it under control..you can still spread it.
There is no evidence that the HPV vaccine has directly caused any deaths. It is possible to have an adverse reaction or go into anaphylaxis, but your chances of that are on par with getting struck by lightening.
If I ever have daughters, I would 100% consider getting this vaccine. It has been extensively tested for safety.
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posted
Vaccines undergo a standard of 3 clinical trials, as well as post licensure safety evaluations. These are reported via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).
THEN they use that data to do studies that help determine if possible side effects identified using VAERS are *actually* related to vaccination. The information on that CDC site isn't claiming that the vaccine definitively CAUSED those events.
You are claiming that MANY young girls have died as a result of this vaccine. The 32 death reports were reviewed and there was no common pattern to the deaths that would suggest they were caused by the vaccine. The VSD will search for any links, thus far none have been found.
Correlation does not imply causation. If there is a link determined, it will be picked up in post-clincical safety evaluations.Case in point: Man gets flu shot. Later dies of heart attack. Death reported in VAERS.
Is it possible that a death occurred post vaccination, or that those two woman had an unusual neurological illness because of the shot? Sure. But with millions of doses given..that's only 0.03928571% of the vaccinated population having an adverse reaction.
In 2010 11,818 women in the United States were diagnosed with cervical cancer. 3,939 women in the United States died from cervical cancer that year. They took their chances, so to say.
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posted
Well, are you implying that the HPV vaccine is killing young woman? Where is your scientific data to back up such an assertion? Is this viewpoint related to all vaccines or just this one in particular?
It's not out of the realm of possibility that that young woman died of hypotensive anaphylactic shock, but usually that type of shock is pretty obvious, with pruritis, urticaria, or dyspnea. What's not clear is whether or not she had a completely unrelated undiagnosed medical problem.
VAERS reporting largely consists individuals who had a medical problem after receiving the shot, but there is no causative proof showing the vaccine was responsible as of yet.
As someone who's suffered from HPV, "harmless" is a subjective term. I underwent painful nitrogen freezing treatments, topical creams that caused intense burning (that cost me $150), and no guarantee that I would clear the infection.
To some people, the less than 1% chance of having a mild reaction at the injection site, or the 0.00016651% of a chance of going into anaphylaxis from the shot, might not be worth it. But exposure to HPV causes the cancer, not failure to clear HPV. That's how the vaccine prevents cancer.
HPV might not sound threatening to people out of the high risk dating game, but as someone who has never had children, the thought that 10,000 woman contract cervical cancer each year, and some of those woman die or undergo hysterectomy's doesn't seem worth it to me, since there is no cure for HPV.
If anyone can provide data showing that this particular vaccine is unsafe, by all means post it. A hysterical fox news report isn't scientifically valid. Here is a recent 2013 study on HPV vaccine safety:
posted
Maia, you were lucky that you did not have problems from the gardasil shot. I'm happy for you.
But others have died or become crippled from it. I did my research when CA went for it. I don't have the urls from then, I just know I had them then. Total tragedies. I also spoke with the anti-gardasil campaign and heard about more reactive cases.
I testified before the school board in SF and said don't do it. They agreed. This is one county that will not follow any state law as they are aware of possible consequences and do not wish to kill or maim any students.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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beaches
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posted
Maia, perhaps you should hold your opinion until you are faced with vaccinating a newborn with numerous shots (many more than even 20 years ago) and/or are faced with vaccinating very sick children with compromised immune systems.
There are plenty of other mothers here who will second that. We know what we know from EXPERIENCE and discussions with physicians.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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surprise
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posted
Maia no offense, but you are completely out of touch to what is happening out here in the real world with young children.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Keebler
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posted
Oh yes, I always believe the CDC. Yepper. Sure. Right.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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poppy
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posted
I think the CDC has decided that if they admit to vaccine problems, everyone will just stop taking them. They must figure that some casualties along the way don't matter if the majority are protected.
What other explanation could there be for such stonewalling? Some do have vaccine patents and presumably make money, which means they might be less than truthful on the subject.
IMO this was a terrible decision on the part of Congress to allow CDC and NIH employees to personally profit from things under their jurisdiction professionally. A real conflict of interest. Leaving us to wonder when they are telling the truth and when they aren't.
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Breaking up paragraph...
[ 08-15-2014, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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surprise
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OMG, I need a break from the Internet. I refuse to get into a vaccine debate.
Just this morning I read a thread on a private group I am on where many mothers painfully told their REAL LIFE stories about LOSING their children after vaccines. It was a congenital Lyme group, and a vaccine triggered the disease into action. I am not even speaking about autism!
I have been reading for years these tragic stories in relation to autism, ADHD. NOT ONE HAD BEEN REPORTED TO THE CDC.
Just like when I tried to report my positive Lyme test, no- one to report it to! They do not want to know! The vaccine manufacturers even have a law that they cannot be sued! A 'special appointed' separate court!
The CDC spends millions counteracting the truth about their excessive and damaging vaccines, and vaccine schedule. Wake up! We are destroying our youth!
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
If I am so completely "out of touch" with what is happening with young children, where is the evidence of all this malfeasance? If 32 woman "died" or were "maimed" by the HPV vaccine, one would assume a positive correlation was found.
That no one has linked the deaths in any readable pattern, makes your claim suspect. You don't know, but you WANT it to be true because it fits in nicely with your predetermined beliefs.
Posting links to websites with authors peddling books to sell ON the subject matter isn't an unbiased source. I get it that the medical community has failed many of us with lyme disease, but that doesn't mean there is conspiracy lurking in every facet of public health.
Our privatized health care industry may be inept at treating chronic disease, but that doesn't mean that we haven't taken great leaps forward in other areas.
My problem with the Anti-vaccine movement is, it is hysterical anecdotal claims that have not lived up to scrutiny. One of those links takes aim at herd immunity, but doesn't even seem to understand the concept. Many vaccines do not induce lifelong immunity and require boosters.
This is not a failure of vaccination as there are usually enough children being vaccinated as to not pose a public health risk, thus a booster as adults is usually unnecessary.
Finally, I know it's easy to equate Big Pharma with all things bad, but i don't think many of you even understand how vaccines are developed.
Basic research for vaccines comes from the government via the NIH. The data is published in peer-reviewed literature.
It can take half a billion dollars to license a vaccine, thus research into development of vaccines is not going to occur unless there is a real public need
as those companies will not take risks to development a vaccine with no guarantee the FDA will allow a license and they can recoup their expenses and make money.
I have an autistic family member, and there was once a point in time that I believed that he may have developed autism from the MMR vaccine. But the new research coming out is starting to show pretty direct evidence of a prenatal origin. Thus autism arises from genetic susceptibility and yet unknown environmental factors.
It can be pretty compelling to claim a vaccine gave a child autism, but the reverse is that they are given the vaccination right at the time of development of autistic symptoms.
No one disputes that for a very small percentage of the population, immune dysfunction can occur when exposed to a vaccine.
We understand how the dysfunction occurs, but without knowing the exact genetic and phenotypic makeup of every single person, predicting exactly who is going to be affected is impossible.
You also can't discount the fact that many people have underlying medical issues that may or may not have been triggered.
But based on the large amount of credible evidence available, risks from vaccines are minimal, and the benefits are huge and greatly outweigh what small risk there is. That is why each person must weight the pros and cons individually.
If vaccines arent safe then someone should do a proper study, publish it in a peer reviewed journal, have their observations verified by independant third parties.
Edward Jenner tested his initial hypothesis in 1796. That is 218 years worth of evidence that vaccines work.
Polio has seen a 99.9% reduction since the WHO began its eradication program.
If vaccines on the market aren't safe, why hasn't that come out in the past 200 years? The data is all public, surely someone out there can extrapolate it and prove it?
Of course you are all free to read mommy blogs and websites created by health guru's looking for profits to be had on scaring you all.
Science is super important in our fight against Lyme disease, and in the end, science will prevail as peer reviewed research comes out.
Until someone can present compelling research into vaccine induced dysfunctions that are as widespread as you claim, I'm disinclined to support internet hoaxes.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- The work of Robert Kennedy, Jr. is a wealth of excellent information. It really is. Sadly, the government would not listen to him.
Please don't let the government "experts" and the puppets behind them cloud the truth. Much of the "accepted" studies re: autism / vaccines are contrived and ignore a great deal of evidence and correlations. He could talk, interact perfectly . . . until that set of shots.
I've seen it with my own eyes, with a friend's child. Fine little lad . . . and all of the sudden, right after a new round of vaccines, he was autistic overnight. No other variables for him.
To overlook the wealth of information that Kennedy compiled with doctors, parents, etc. . . . well, it's going to cause more harm by ignoring that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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beaches
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posted
Maia, you are assuming that "we" are part of an anti-vaccine "movement." You are mistaken.
It is one thing to give a child vaccines to prevent polio and meningitis. Gardasil and flu vaccines are a whole other ball of wax.
You want evidence? My "evidence" was watching my child have an adverse reaction to the flu vaccine. And watching the other as a newborn having an adverse reaction to the DTP vaccine.
That doesn't meet your criteria as my observations of my children were not conducted in a CDC lab and officially documented.
Physicians have told me it is not prudent to vaccinate a child with chronice lyme whose immune system is compromised., unless absolutely necessary.
And even then a protocol cosisting of herbs, homeopathic and supplements should be followed so as to minimize vaccine side effects or reactions.
So like I said, perhaps you should reserve your opinion on children and vaccines until you have a child or two of your own.
posted
There is a special vaccine court because some people have an immune dysfunction when exposed to a vaccine. With 30-40 vaccines given to each person that means you're going to have a few thousand people with adverse reactions. The court has never found that a vaccine is deadly or overtly harmful to the population at large.
No, I don't have children yet. But I would vaccinate them on an alternative schedule for things they *would* be at risk for. It's rather bizarre to think that people really believe that a weakened virus that can't cause disease is MORE harmful than actually getting the disease itself.
Risk of measles shot: Mild irritation at injection site or allergic reaction in less than 1 out of a million doses. Risk of measles: pneumonia, a serious lung infection, lifelong brain damage, deafness, and even death.
I would 100% embraced a Lyme disease vaccine if it was found to not interfere with diagnostic testing or induce a negative immune response, which seems to be a concern with the original vaccine.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- It's not just the vaccine that is the question here, it's all the additives in them, too.
It's not about vaccine theory, but all the other chemicals, neurotoxins in those shots.
I also had my own experience, twice, with vaccines as an adult. I cannot describe the neuro damage in just overnight, with each of those, too (years apart. One a flu shot, the other a tetanus booster). And the neuro damage has never left me.
Tests for heavy metals help connect some dots but there should be ZERO HEAVY METALS in anyone's vaccines. Zero. And the same for the other additives. They must be held to a higher, proper, standard of safety that totally eludes them now. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I have adverse reactions to the flu shot. I used to have to get them in half doses as they would induce 3 days of fever and swollen lymph nodes.
But, as a person with asthma and chronic immune dysfunction, the short 3 days of discomfort was more preferable to dying from a respiratory infection, which would have been way more damaging to my immune state. Its always a cost/benefit for each individual.
For DTP, I would still vaccinate despite the slight chance of adverse reaction. Whooping cough can induce pneumonia, encephalopathy, earache, or seizures.
Children die from it, most deaths occur among infants younger than 3 months of age.
The fact that more deaths don't occur is because most people choose to vaccinate. If we reversed to a state without vaccination, I'm sure people would be clamoring for vaccines once their children began suffering and dying from preventable diseases.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Again, missing the point.
We don't have to just take the toxic shots as offered, suggested, required. We can change that - insist on a full list of all safe ingredients.
But we have to also not bury our heads in the sand about it. Why so many are willing to ignore the toxic additives is beyond me. We must start looking for safer ways, that will be safer for all, not just the lucky ones who manage to not be affected. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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surprise
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posted
Maia, sorry for your relative with autism.
Honestly, I didn't read past the next few lines of your post.
We have very different views/ read different studies / read different evidence on this issue.
I am signing out on this thread. There is a lot more I could say, links to posts, citations,
but I am just not interested.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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I find your comment interesting. Because, could not your neuro symptoms be originating from lyme? It's entirely possible and no one disputes that vaccines can induce immune dysfunction, but if you have an underlying immune dysfunction, it's hard to point fingers at a vaccine.
Of course, the antigen in the vaccine could have triggered a response, yet, a lot of my neuro symptoms may have been triggered by natural antigens. I worked in a horse barn 2 years ago, never had a horse allergy in my life. Suddenly, I can't even be around horses.
Did being in the barn trigger this allergy? Sure, but I'm willing to bet its the Lyme that is making me more susceptible.
That's why I think the vaccine debate is interesting in immune dysfunction. But what would be a more interesting question would be, if I have an adverse reaction to a flu shot..can we dismiss the idea that actually contracting the full blown flu be MORE adverse to my immune system?
Same thing with the fly vaccine, you don't have to give it to your infant..but if your infant is premature, the greater risk is the flu. Infants die every winter at hospitals with the flu, so its not theoretical. Its a risk you run with not vaccinating, which may be more or less than vaccinating.
I got the Pneumonia vaccine last year after developing asthma (from my allergies). Did this vaccine contribute to my very sudden decline over the next 6 months? It's possible.
But I also know I am now not at risk of developing Pneumonia in my lungs, which is important to me as I am very sick, have asthma and two strains of active Mycoplasma pneumonia.
I am hesitant to blame my decline on a vaccine, as there are plenty of other reasons for my decline. I know stress was a huge part of my relapse this time. I may have decline rapidly because of my vaccine, or it is just coincidental.
Either way, without my rapid decline I would not have sought help and be under the care of an LLMD now.
I too have wondered about the additives in vaccines. The vaccines do need preservatives, and the amounts are so low, most people find it negligible. I'm actually more concerned with the chemicals people rub on their skin, under their arms, and whats in our food.
A minute amount of preservative injected in the muscle, I'm not sure there is enough evidence to prove harm. Though, I always request a thermerisol free flu shot
I am completely willing to read different evidence. Probably more willing than you are as evidenced by some of the attitudes here. I read the literature, lots of it.
No one here has actually posted a link to a citation besides me. All that is posted here is a link to a fox news article (fox news, hardly trustworthy) and a webpage of some random guy who sells nutritional supplements.
IF there is alot more you can say, then you are free to say it. I think most people would be interested in actual real data. I WANT to believe, in fact I was pretty convinced once by RFK JR's article a few years back. But it millions of people receive vaccines each year and less than 1% report an adverse event, and every death so far cannot be conclusively linked to the vaccine, then its hard to get on that boat.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Maia,
Immediate damage - ER, convulsions . . . 2 hours after the shot, each time. Other neuro symptoms, too.
Don't know how that is not directly related. Within 2 hours, I nearly died, twice, and left so much worse in so many ways, even today. That was 1987 & 1993.
I was not diagnosed with lyme and other TBD until 1997, but likely did have it long before. Still, until the vaccines, I was managing. They caused real damage to me that would not have occurred had I not had them.
Just because there are other factors does not lessen the damage caused.
Does a person who has other factors not also deserve a shot that is safe? A shot free of mercury, formaldehyde, etc.? I say: yes. Everyone does.
We need to make vaccines safer for all. There is no reason for status quo any longer. Too many have been damaged. The problems are not fixed by saying, well, a certain percentage will always suffer some side-effects. This is damage. Not just side-effects.
And, as a nation, we just lie down and take it, hoping to be lucky to not be the "small percentage" - I don't think so.
And we also don't need a vaccine for everything.
And those who study and come to the decision to opt out, don't deserve to be mocked. This needs to be an individual's decision (or parents). Most who opt out are very well educated in the matter and are mindful of good health practices.
There are better ways to achieve health than just a vaccine for every thing in the world.
The money behind many of these is what's pushing the campaigns, not the interest of real people. The HPV vaccine has many flaws.
A Hep B vaccine does not need to be given to babies at birth - it's a body fluid transmitted disease. For crying out loud, babies, children are not in a high risk group at all. -
[ 08-14-2014, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I got the Pneumonia vaccine last year after developing asthma (from my allergies). Did this vaccine contribute to my very sudden decline over the next 6 months? It's possible. But I also know I am now not at risk of developing Pneumonia in my lungs, which is important to me as I am very sick, have asthma and two strains of active Mycoplasma pneumonia.
I am hesitant to blame my decline on a vaccine, as there are plenty of other reasons for my decline. I know stress was a huge part of my relapse this time. I may have decline rapidly because of my vaccine, or it is just coincidental.
- Think about it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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MannaMe
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posted
When I was in 3rd or 4th grade in school, the measles went through our classroom. Quite a few were out sick with measles. Including myself.
Not one of us had any life threatening events with the measles. We all recovered and went back to school.
My siblings had the measles also. I don't know of anyone who died or was seriously harmed by measles.
I wonder how many children actually die of the childhood diseases? Is that hyped up to scare people into getting vaccines?
Oh and my nephew who got the chicken pox vax had a worse case of chicken pox than his siblings with no chicken pox vaccines.
Posts: 2252 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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The problem with "those who opt out" is most of them aren't relying on scientific evidence.
The link between autism and vaccines started because in 1998 a physician in England claimed to have evidence showing a relationship. The "study" was based on reports from parents of 12 children, not a valid sample size.
That study has been retracted. When comparing rates of autism across the globe between vaccinated and vaccinated children, there was no correlation found.
So if a vaccine is causing autism, how come there is no correlation between the incidence of autism among vaccinated children and un-vaccinated children ACROSS the glove? Isn't that a bit suspect? "Think about it."
There are plenty of studies that look into this. It's nice to imagine medical research is done by evil Big Pharma corporations rubbing their hands together, but most vaccine research is done by NIH funded institutions and academic institutions.
Places like the one that brought us studies like the Tulane Primate study "Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi in Rhesus Macaques."
Research points to autism being caused by toxic exposures during pregnancy and complications disrupting brain processes before birth and shortly afterwards.
Mutations in the genes associated with autism can affect how the brain develops and functions, and this starts well before birth.
The brain can compensate to make up for the disrupted processes. But, symptoms will emerge when the disruption is sufficiently severe and the compensatory processes are no longer enough, which happens at specific points of time in development. There a replenty of studies tha tlook into this link:
"Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses"
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
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posted
Maia, my DD was given the flu shot because of severe asthma. The reaction she had to the shot was horrendous. Never again.
As for DTP, the majority of the time the reaction is from the pertussis portion. If an infant reacts, he/she can never get that portion of the vaccine again. Just ask any pediatrician.
You do realize that many, if not most adverse affects are not reported, right? My children's reactions weren't. So it's questionable as to just how "slight" the chances of adverse reactions are.
And despite not having any other pertussis booster since the first shot as an infant, my child has immunity to pertussis (tested titers).
In the old days, parents kept their infants at home for the first few months so as not to expose them to germs before their immune systems were developed (especially during the cold weather).
Nowadays, mothers pass their newborns from person to person to person and have them at the mall when they're a week old. I never believed in that. My babies were at home the first couple of months +.
I allowed immediate family to visit, but only if they did not have a cold and only after they washed their hands. Some could not understand why I was so strict about this, but that was their problem. Perhaps if more parents did this, risks to the newborns would be reduced.
The other thing is that vaccines are now combined - MMR, DTP for example. And often one of those is combined with Polio, Hep B, etc. It is just too much to subject a newborn to all of that at once.
Now, you can't even get a standalone measles vaccine. If your college-bound child is not immune to measles, he or she is forced to have the mumps and rubella portion of the shot as well, despite having immunity to those.
As for the varicella vaccine, I wish my youngest had gotten the chicken pox as a young child. Instead, she got the vaccine. Immunity wore off after a few years and we were faced with vaccinating her when she was very ill vs. taking a chance that she would get the disease when she is older. These are not easy decisions, to say the least.
Regarding autism, I am no expert on the subject by a long shot. And I thank God my family has not been hit with this horrendous condition. It is very, very difficult for parents who must deal with this on a daily basis.
But, having been a parent for 25 years, I must say that back in the day, I think I heard the word "autistic" 3 or 4 times. Fast forward years later, and all of a sudden every other kid it seems is on the spectrum. Why???
Well I certainly don't think it's a genetic thing. If it were, it would have been much more prevalent years back. People don't develop a huge upswing in genetic defects over the course of 20 years. And it's certainly not due to better diagnoses. It's pretty apparently early on in a child's life if he or she has autistic tendencies.
I speculate that the increase in autism could be due to environmental issues, the huge increase in the number of vaccines and/or tick-borne diseases.
posted
One of my relatives had the measles back in the 50s, I forget who. I do know that measles is one of the most contagious diseases in the world and is pretty serious disease. Worldwide the deaths were in the millions before vaccinations. It can cause blindess as well. The common diseases resulted in thousands of deaths, which is why vaccines were created.
Thousands of people contracting preventable dieases would be a strain on the health care system, and would impart a cost on the system. The money in the healthcae industry is in treating disease, not preventing it.
The only nefarious thing I can think of drug companies doing is trying to get their vaccines required for school children when they disease they are preventing don't pose a serious threat.
For Hepatitis, you can get it from fluids spread between family members, not just sexual contact. Health care workers are more at risk than babies, but it is a necessary vaccine for foreign travel.
The vaccine is more effective in children, meaning that protective levels of antibodies are reached and maintained throughout life as long as you are vaccinated young. That's why it is given to babies and not adults.
Some vaccines offer lifelong antibody protection when administered before a certain age, and why waiting is not endorsed.
posted
I wish I had had the chicken pox vaccine. I got shingles a few years back and had lingering nerve pain for a year. I blame my mother for that, she put me in the bathtub with my sibling with chicken pox. Any of lyme sufferers here have shingles?
Increases in autism is most def due to environmental issues, but the consensus is more geared to issues during pregnancy (toxic exposures or mother contracting a virus during pregnancy). I personally feel that if autism were link to a shot, it would be really easy to compare the data to non-vaccinated children, which has been done. I think that horse had been beaten pretty hard.
I would be nice to blame my sibling's autism on a MMR vaccine, and believe me, I've looked into it out of fear of having it happen to my own child someday..but it's not very likely to be linked. Immune systems must play a large role in the development of autism, but I think the better tree to bark at is the one when the child is in the womb.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
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I don't have shingles but I know of a lyme patient who does. I don't know whether she had chicken pox in childhood. She must have. My understanding is that the varicella virus has to be in your system already (from chicken pox) in order to develop Shingles. Shingles is very painful, that I know. Sorry to hear you've had it.
Odds are if you had the vaccine, the immunity would have worn off within a few years--that happened to most of the kids I know who got the shot.
As for the measles, that is one vaccine that I am on board with. Too bad you can no longer get it as a standalone shot. There have been measles outbreaks all over the country and on college campuses.
To me, measles, polio and meningitis vaccines are a must (timed apart and while on vaccine protocol mentioned earlier). As for the Hep B, Hib, Flu, Pneumonia, Gardisil, no thank you.
Regarding autism again, what in a mother's womb has changed so drastically from 20/25 years ago? If anything, pregnant women today are eating much more healthily than they did years ago. And what viral infection are we talking about here? Is there a new one out there affecting pregnant women all of a sudden?
posted
There is a theory that the reason so many are getting shingles now is that before the chicken pox vaccine, older people were regularly exposed to the chicken pox. That BOOSTED their immunity.
That made them LESS likely to get shingles. Nowadays, shingles is VERY common.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Maia .. Did you see this regarding vaccines?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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beaches
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LT, yes, I've heard that as well. Little kids are much better getting the chicken pox vs. the vaccine in my opinion and experience, having one kid who got the disease and remains immune vs. having another one who got the shot whose immunity quickly wore off.
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posted
Hi everyone - please break up your paragraphs into one, two or three line units as many people here cannot read chunks of text - thx -
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droid1226
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I scanned through this thread quickly, here's my take.
-I gotta agree with Maia on a lot of her statements. Even on her Causal vs. Correlation points. Though I hate that statement, scientifically it's true and undeniable. Try and prove a negative. That's all it is(for someone trying to state a case in their favor).
-The whole HPV and other vaccinations goes along with the "The Sacrifice of Few for the Good of Many" --said by someone smarter and healthier than myself.
-It's undeniable had this girl not gotten that shot that day, she'd be alive.
I do find this statement by Maia rather odd though....
--It's rather bizarre to think that people really believe that a weakened virus that can't cause disease is MORE harmful than actually getting the disease itself.--
-I'm not going to correct her incorrect (IMO) sentence, I'm just going to say that it's the "weakened virus" that can activate other devastating dormant viruses in a person. Because of other immune system problems.
I think we're kinda saying the same thing.
*sidenote--- another blonde haired, fair skinned girl that died after that vaccine. I've glanced at all 32 deaths....most of them look like the same girl. Idk what that means except maybe one bad genetic father 50 generations ago. Thanks pops..
Autism, ALS, Lyme is rampant in my family. Just depends on how much you like the dr that diagnosed you I guess(in my family)....
beaches
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Still awaiting a response....
Regarding autism again, what in a mother's womb has changed so drastically from 20/25 years ago? If anything, pregnant women today are eating much more healthily than they did years ago. And what viral infection are we talking about here? Is there a new one out there affecting pregnant women all of a sudden?
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droid1226
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posted
Maia???
Here's an interesting video released today. No proof just interesting results.
posted
Sorry, Had a hard weekend..I've developed some pretty bad hip pain and have gone to bed early every night since!
As per vaccines, I agree with the statement "Sacrifice a few for the good of the many."
Studies show that the risk of severe infection is greater after natural infection than immunization with attenuated viruses. Which is why I pondered the idea that some people believe a "weakened virus that can't cause disease is MORE harmful than actually getting the disease itself."
I understand the fear of chemicals in vaccines, but they have trace amounts not yet shown to cause harm. "Toxins" in vaccines is a vague statement. You can encounter formaldehyde off gassing in fuel, fabric, drapes, etc. Formaldehyde is also produced naturally in the human body, so I am not convinced yet it causes harm via IM injection.
Ive only ever had a reaction to the flu shot, just swollen glands and slight fever for 2 days. This is because the shot is a either recombinant or deactivated..it is stimulating your immune response, but it's not infectious the way the actual flu would be. Vaccination can cause mild illness, but noting on par with what the actual wild type virus would do.
I believe it is hard to discuss vaccines in a subset of people who EXPERIENCE chronic illness, because we are all the very people who experience the uncommon side effects of vaccination.
But the original point is, Vaccines are safer now than they use to be. I don't believe gardisil is maiming and killing young girls, if it was, it would be pulled and data would link it. That doesn't mean I don't believe it may have contributed to some deaths or illnesses. Its just 99.9% of the time, it hasn't. I was at risk for developing HPV, so it made sense for me.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
You can only get shingles if you have had chicken pox, as the virus takes residence in your nervous system. If it reactivates, it can cause permanent nerve damage. I don't know how long the vaccine lasts in children (children can develop lifelong immunity if vaccinated early to some diseases, unsure about chicken pox though).
People with weakened immune systems get shingles, which is why it happens in the elderly. I haven't seen any correlation in the idea that more people are getting it because of vaccination. I don't think the vaccine has been around long enough.
Take smallpox, the vaccine is a live virus called vaccinia, which causes a mild infection. This improves its effectiveness, but causes serious complications for people with impaired immune systems.
The original smallpox vaccine contained 200 antigens, as opposed to the total load for all childhood vaccines is something like 130 proteins in total. A child with a developing immune system is exposed to thousands of times greater number of antigens than exposure from the vaccine schedule.
Studies of children with immunodeficiencies respond well to live viral vaccines. Why then do people in our state appear to have issues with vaccines? All evidence is of now, anecdotal.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
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Does anyone know how long it took to pull the lymerix vaccine or how many people died and were injued before it was finally pulled from the market?
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Maia, what studies are you refering to that state immunocompromised children do well with live vaccines?
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posted
Supposedly, more are getting shingles because of the chicken pox vaccine not allowing "older" people to receive a natural "booster" by being exposed to chicken pox on a regular basis. That is what I read.
This is the link I meant to post above... pertinent to the vaccine discussion.
quote:Originally posted by beaches: Does anyone know how long it took to pull the lymerix vaccine or how many people died and were injued before it was finally pulled from the market?
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- I think at least 2-3 years. I was on Lymenet when it happened.
Not sure if anyone died, but at least 1,000+ filed suit against the company because it GAVE THEM intractable Lyme.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Beaches, a lot has changed in the past few generations.Autism is linked to inflammatory diseases, which has increased significantly in that past 50-60 years.
I think immune dysregulation is a fairly serious disorder. I don't think there is proof that vaccines would cause such a high incidence (though could contribute in a very small subset? maybe?).
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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beaches
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And Maia, I would appreciate an answer to my questions that I asked in response to your statements re autism. What has changed in women's wombs over the past 20 years and what viral infection are you referring to?
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droid1226
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The problem is if you give a newborn the same amount of toxins, even trace amounts that you do a full size human. It's going to do neuro damage.
beaches
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Unable to open the NY Times link. Re Science Daily, no one doubts that maternal illness can affect the unborn child. But this article does not prove anything with words like "might" and "potential."
How does one explain the extraordinarily high incidence of autism/autism spectrum over the past 20 years? There is one thing that stands out: the very aggressive vaccine schedule.
And if you truly believe the CDC wouldn't suppress evidence to the contrary, let me remind you how the CDC has handled Lyme Disease, ignoring SCIENCE to the devastation of very sick people.
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beaches
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And let's not forget - how many times has "scientific proof"' followed anecdotal evidence, even as far back as Lister, who hypothesized via observation that when physicians washed their hands prior to delivering babies, the mother's chances of developing infection was reduced. He was ridiculed by his peers.
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beaches
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And again Maia, what studies are you referring to that state immunocompromised children do well with live vaccines?
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And if you truly believe the CDC wouldn't suppress evidence to the contrary, let me remind you how the CDC has handled Lyme Disease, ignoring SCIENCE to the devastation of very sick people.
- Indeed
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TNT
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maia_Azure: [QB] Beaches, a lot has changed in the past few generations.Autism is linked to inflammatory diseases, which has increased significantly in that past 50-60 years.
I think immune dysregulation is a fairly serious disorder. I don't think there is proof that vaccines would cause such a high incidence (though could contribute in a very small subset? maybe?).
I think that is the crux of the conversation.
One HUGE cause of inflammatory diseases and immune dysregulation is the increase of the undetected stealth infections (lyme, bartonella, etc.) in the past several decades!
So if one is sub-clinically infected with these infections and passes them on to their children...[this is a very strong possibility why a child at that age might have an inflammatory disease or be prone to inflammatory disorders]
...and then the young children (with their immature and overloaded--"dysregulated"--immune systems) are loaded up with many vaccines
(along with all the stuff that is in the vaccine besides the deactivated virus or dead bacteria, such as foreign animal proteins and heavy metals)
... on top of what their immune system is already dealing with....
The result could be.... Autism! Or worse!!
From the New York times article:
But how to address it, and where to begin? That question has led scientists to the womb. A population-wide study from Denmark spanning two decades of births indicates that infection during pregnancy increases the risk of autism in the child. Hospitalization for a viral infection, like the flu, during the first trimester of pregnancy triples the odds. Bacterial infection, including of the urinary tract, during the second trimester increases chances by 40 percent.
The lesson here isn’t necessarily that viruses and bacteria directly damage the fetus. Rather, the mother’s attempt to repel invaders — her inflammatory response — seems at fault. Research by Paul Patterson, an expert in neuroimmunity at Caltech, demonstrates this important principle. Inflaming pregnant mice artificially — without a living infective agent — prompts behavioral problems in the young. In this model, autism results from collateral damage. It’s an unintended consequence of self-defense during pregnancy.
Yet to blame infections for the autism epidemic is folly. First, in the broadest sense, the epidemiology doesn’t jibe. Leo Kanner first described infantile autism in 1943. Diagnoses have increased tenfold, although a careful assessment suggests that the true increase in incidences is less than half that. But in that same period, viral and bacterial infections have generally declined. By many measures, we’re more infection-free than ever before in human history.
Obviously, they don't see what is right under their noses concerning infections of epidemic proportions!!!
...And the fact that the number of vaccines have increased dramatically as well.
I, too, would like to see the studies that prove that immune-compromised children do well with vaccines (or the adults for that matter).
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Judie
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The thing that I don't understand is can't a person use a condom to protect themselves from HPV and other STDs????
It seems like an educational element is being missed in all this.
Is there just the assumption teenagers and young women are on the pill and don't need a condom?
Isn't the vaccine just assuming people are having unprotected sex? Can't you get tested for HPV?
I remember a time (before I was in a long-term relationship) where if there was the potential to have sex, me and the guy would get an AIDs test first. It wasn't weird, it was just what was done.
If you aren't exposing yourself to the potential of getting an infection, shouldn't that be the best bet for not getting it?
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Does someone close to you have Lyme disease? Chances are, the answer is 'yes,' but due to the politically and emotionally charged climate surrounding Lyme disease, you may be unaware of their plight. In fact, many sufferers themselves are unaware of their true diagnosis.
Here is a story that will leave anyone with a conscience asking, "how can we let this continue?"
It has all the elements of a best-selling modern crime novel. It has mad scientists, hungry for money and fame. It has backroom handshake deals between international corporations and corrupt government officials. It has people dying, begging for help, and being shunned, oppressed, and destroyed--physically, emotionally, financially. It has deathly ill children, and doctors losing their licenses for simply trying to help them. It has a whistleblower who was jailed and lost both her career and her children, but continues to fight 20 years later. It is tragic beyond belief, yet 100% true. It is the story of Lyme disease.
Facts: Prior to development of a Lyme vaccine (LYMErix), diagnostic guidelines were straightforward and valid.
The case definition and diagnostic guidelines were falsified in 1994 at the Dearborn conference of the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) to make LYMErix appear safe and effective, when in fact it made people sick. More than 1,100 systemic adverse events were reported through the VAERS.
In order to rule out vaccine recipients from being diagnosed with Lyme disease, IDSA and FDA fraudulently redefined Lyme disease as "arthritic knees" so that only people of a certain genetic type (15% of the population) could be positively diagnosed.
Not coincidentally, participating labs reported a combined accuracy rate of just 15% with the revised, fraudulent guidelines. Their results were ignored, and the CDC, FDA and IDSA went ahead with the revision despite protests from the labs and some FDA panel members that the new method did not detect "protean" (systemic) cases; only Lyme arthritis.
The other 85% of patients are the sickest, and have no chance of testing CDC-positive on the Dearborn standard, because the actual disease is one of immunosuppression, similar to HIV/AIDS. (The test looks for antibodies. Diseases of immunosuppression do not produce antibodies.)
With more than 300,000 people in the U.S. sickened with Lyme disease every year, Lyme's magnitude is far greater than that of AIDS.
Instead of being treated for Lyme disease, the 85% are given garbage pail diagnoses of Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and psychosomatic disorders, for which there are no cures--only expensive drugs to mask some of the symptoms.
The scientists who developed LYMErix hold patents on the Lyme (borreliae) bacteria and stood to profit tremendously from the sale of vaccines and test kits. They still do, as the primary patent holders for vector-borne diseases.
In a clear conflict of interest, these same scientists make up the majority of the IDSA, in addition to being CDC officers and holding leadership positions at major research institutions such as Yale and Johns Hopkins. Their influence and funding from Big Pharma prevent the truth from being exposed, and patients from being properly diagnosed and treated.
Senator Richard Blumenthal has said this amounts to a RICO Act violation. The result of this violation is homicide.
The LYMErix whistleblower, a former pharmaceutical industry scientist, filed a RICO Act complaint with the U.S. Department of Justice. For more than 10 years there has been a total failure by the USDOJ to prosecute this crime and protect U.S. Citizens.
Activist patients are organizing and mobilizing with national efforts to #CureTheCDC and #OccupyTheUSDOJ. Though we are extraordinarily ill, we have passion and truth on our side.
We also have all the necessary research and documentation to prove this crime. Those responsible will be prosecuted. We will get justice.
This is one of the biggest corruption cases in U.S. history. It involves medical research fraud, and organized crime between government agencies, academia, and the health care industry. As a bonus, the prosecution of the Lyme criminals also will expose the key to unlocking the autism epidemic and Gulf War Syndrome. Your assistance in bringing attention to our movement has the potential to help millions of people suffering needlessly all over the world.
The time is now.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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There is data from children with HIV infection, showing that immunizations are well-tolerated and confer protective immunity (Live Virus Vaccines in Human Immunodeficiency Virus-Infected Children: A Retrospective Survey).
The confusing part of the autism-vaccine link theory is that, if autism rates have increased in the past 20 years, and vaccines expose us to fewer antigens today than in the past..you would expect rates to be HIGHER at the start of vaccination 200 years ago and to be slowly dropping. Also, thimersol has been removed since 1999, so why are the rates still going up?
The theory has further holes in it because when data comparing rates of autism between non-vaccinated kids and vaccinated kids shows no links:
The only suspect part of the youtube link is the idea that African American boys in that study were vaccinated earlier than others, but I can't find more data for that relationship.
For autism and changes in the womb, the only "change" you can think of is vaccines (despite them getting safer and more refined for the most part). But besides genetics, there are a lot of environmental factors that could be at play here: pregnant woman's exposure to chemical pollutants, heavy metals, pesticides, etc, altering a developing baby's brain structure?
There is a lot of work being done at John Hopkins with mouse studies showing infection triggers the mother’s innate immune system, thus it is the reaction of the mother’s immune system to the infection that affects the developing brain. It may be that the presence of these environmental triggers, viral or bacterial exposures that results in the production of antibodies against the fetus or child's own brain tissue.
Its an idea that is gaining traction because many autistic individuals have impaired immune systems (my younger brother has Chrohn's disease and my mother had a virus while pregnant, interestingly).
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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HPV is the human papilloma virus...the same family that causes skin and plantar warts. HPV as an STD just refers to the species that infects the anal-genital region. So you can get it from skin to skin contact without even having sex. Its on the skin, so can be spread even by your hands. That's why it is so common. There are over 30 types that are STDs..and 90% of them do go away on their own, but woman still die from cervical cancers, and others from oral cancers (yes, even oral sex spreads it).
What is a bit frightening is, the age of marriage is being delayed, thus total exposure time is probably increasing for young adults. So the theory is, give the vaccine to girls and boys before they are sexually active and protect them from the forms that can cause cancer.
I don't think it is a bad idea, though if one believes they suffer from vaccine reactions, then the cost benefit might not be in their favor. If you read the vaccine reporting data, it comes out to 0.03928571% of the vaccinated population having an adverse reaction. Therefore it's still in the "win" bucket for public health as a whole, unless statistically something changes. All my female cousins and siblings got the vaccine and are fine, so I think it really depends what someone personally thinks the balance is. Not concerned about HPV, don't get it. But, I know two people who had cancer in their 20s, so that was enough for me to find it important.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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My problem with the lyme vaccine is they don't know enough about the bacteria and how it affects the body..so who knows what exposure to lyme antigens could do. They also haven't even refined diagnostic testing..seems important before you develop vaccines.
My problem with linking gardasil concerns with lyme concerns, is that there is plenty of medical research that proves lyme disease can be chronic, the CDC and IDSA choose to pretend it doesn't exist. There isn't enough peer reviewed data to back up vaccine fears, though it's not out of the realm of possibility. I'm just skeptical that they do the damage people think they do. Unless we are talking about people with compromised immune systems, we don't know enough about the mechanisms of those conditions to rule out vaccine induced exacerbation.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Judie
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"So you can get it from skin to skin contact without even having sex."
So touching someone can lead to HPV which may lead to cervical cancer?
Hmmmmmmmmm.....
"What is a bit frightening is, the age of marriage is being delayed, thus total exposure time is probably increasing for young adults."
There's flawed logic here. People can still be monogamous, but not married. This assumes people are only monogamous if married.
That's also assuming young, married people were faithful. I'm old enough to remember the 1970s and knew people who hit the sexual revolution in the 1960s. People got married young, but were not faithful.
I think there was more unprotected sex back them before AIDS.
Until there's an AIDS vaccine, condoms will still be needed. That's way more frightening to me than HPV.
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beaches
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Maia, here are the results of a quick google search re: vaccines and immuno-compromised patients:
“Potentially Harmful Vaccines in Immunocompromised Hosts"
"Live, attenuated viral and bacterial vaccines induce immunity by causing a limited infection. Persons with some immuno-deficiency disorders, generally those with impaired humoral or cellular immunity, may not be able to contain infection with live, attenuated vaccine strains. Severe disease can result."
In general, immunocompromised people should not receive live vaccines because of the risk of disease caused by the vaccine strains. People who are severely immunocompromised or in whom immune status is uncertain should not receive live vaccines.
In less severely immunocompromised people, the benefits of vaccination with routinely recommended live vaccines may outweigh risks.
When considering immunization of an immunocompromised person with a live vaccine, approval from the individual's attending physician should be obtained before vaccination. In complex cases, referral to a physician with expertise in immunization and/or immunodeficiency is advised.”
---
But I didn't need to know that. I know enough from PERSONAL experience and knowledge of pediatricians that it is not WISE to inject an immuno-compromised patient with live vaccine. In fact, it is contraindicated for children with parents who are immuno-compromised to receive live vaccines.
With all due respect, I've been around and been parenting long enough to see many "differences" over the years.
Let's remember that that 25+ years ago there was no MMR. There was a measles shot and a rubella shot. It wasn't until relatively recently that shots for all 3 diseases have been combined.
I'd bet that ingestion of "junk food" and diet everything was much more prevalent years ago than it is today. The womb, as it were, was a much more dangerous place years ago than it is today. Yet, every other kid I've encountered in the past 15 years is "on the spectrum"
Vaccines on steroids are not safer for anyone. As I've said, the vaccine schedule nowadays is extremely aqgressive. I've seen a HUGE change over the course of the 25 years I've been parenting. And it's not for the better.
Vaccines are not the "only" change I can think of, but thanks for putting those words in my mouth. If you want to get down to brass tacks here, another huge change I can think of is the drastic increase in tick-borne diseases.
Beyond those two things, I do not see much more evidence. The vast majority of women today are very health-oriented, especially when they find out they are pregnant - much more so than a quarter century ago.
This notion that pregnant woman today are harboring infections that change the environment of the womb is frankly, quite ridiculous as far as I am concerned.
I will stick to my guns and go out on a limb and state that the high rates of autism today is due to the very aggressive vaccine schedule, combined with the extremely high number of those infected with tick-borne diseases.
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beaches
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And thanks for the lesson on HPV. I'm with Judie. I have never heard of it being spread by just touching.
HPV is an STD. It can be prevented by absinence or using a condom.
And honestly who WOULDN'T be using a condom to prevent gonorrhea, AIDs, etc. these days?
I personally know two young women who had cervical cancer in their 20s. Both went on to have a few children each.
Cervical cancer is preventable and detectable via pap smear.
It is illogical to me why anyone would get vaccinated with God-only-knows-what for something that is preventable, detectable and curable.
So glad I didn't subject my daughters to this shot.
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posted
Sorry, I wasn't talking about touching as in, holding hands. You can spread HPV via Oral sex and HPV can infect areas that are not covered by a condom.
Basically, you would have to pretty faithfully use both condoms and dental dams, and you would only be lowering your risk. A virus like HIV is spread via body fluids, but HPV is spread via direct skin to skin contact.
As for the age thing, what I meant was, the vaccine is only useful in young people before you are exposed to the virus. Most older people may have been already exposed to the virus, or may be in a long term committed relationship, which lowers your risk. If you are over 30, then it would only possibly be of benefit to you if you have had no more than four sexual partners in your lifetime.
I'd prefer not to have cervical cancer or oral cancer. I don't think there is anything illogical about getting a shot that prevents it in the first place. Especially if it has a well documented safety record. Being recently separated from a long term partner, I do feel better knowing that my chances of getting the type of HPV that leads to cancer is decreased. I mean sure, if someone would rather get the cancer and have to freeze, burn or remove pieces of their cervix instead, have at it. As someone who has the benign type of HPV, it has been no picnic. It was a no brainer for me, considering at the time it came out I was in my 20s.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
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Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
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You can spread HPV via Oral sex and HPV can infect areas that are not covered by a condom. 
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