posted
I still think you need to find the old you in you before you met him, hopefully when you knew how to live your life without checking in with someone else. Did that time exist for you? Then no one can take away your self esteem and self respect. When you find your own center, someone else's whirlwind can't get to you as much.
He appears to be living his own life now. I actually think it best if you not put demands on him, but meet your own needs as much as you can.
And agree with Keebler - no hitting!
No need to apologize for writing here - it's a process to get through this and get stronger as a person again.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Gisele, have you bought that book yet? There is still time, trust me, it will change the way you handle the situation.
"Love must be tough"
It may change the destiny of your marriage, but if the marriage does end you will walk away with self respect and dignity.
Please buy it.
I will buy it for you if you send me your address.
[ 02-14-2015, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Haley ]
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
The social worker from the hospital is working on my case.
I'm sorry people don't understand many people with asberger tend to be
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
My son can be impulsive. He is very protective of me. He doesn't like how his dad treats him. If you thought your parents marriage was fine & his relationship, where he has proposed to his girl friend, is falling apart.
I was warning my husband, because he would not call or text the misunderstanding he wanted to see him in person. He wanted to discuss it personally. I was just trying to protect them both!!
We finally had a normal night when I helped him pack. We've spoken he is better with a more normal relationship. After 33 years together we fit together well.
Our plan of he gets no more crying, sobbing & making his life miserable. I will not tell anyone except my best friend, therapist, & you ladies. In return we will respect each other, be kind & have serenity. I get a husband who will be home at least 4 days a week afterwork,call once a day, & keep his promises.
These last things are issues he has let go especially doing what you say & say what you do. Pretty shocking with 1 therapist visit, my best friend(who would talk many times a day until late in the night), & you ladies I understand many of the core issues within 3 weeks.
I was so worried about him breaking down from my illness. I even kept what most of these disgusting diseases were doing to me. He is a gentle man. Seeing the pain in his eyes is to hard for me to take.
The doctors were like where is your husband I said he cant take it. I couldn't be the reason for him falling apart. He had already given me peace, love & tranquility that I never received from my own family.
I can understand why he points at when I got arthritis as when things changed. He forgets about 5 months before, our second child was 20 months old & was tested by the state special educational program
His diagnoses were so significant. He couldn't speak for quite a while. I had to learn sign language. He had processing issues, severe sensory issues,& was already 2 1/2 years behind with most skills at 4 year old.
I was devastated. This is when my husband pulled away. He couldn't deal with it. How do you learn 2 sign language words thats it. I learned a few hundred after a couple months. I thru myself into my child issues & I mistakenly gave him little attention.
Then my other child had similar issues just not so bad. I had to fight the schools, the insurance, & face their futures may not be so bright. All the therapies & specialists. It was a nightmare, but I was going to do anything possible to help them both.
Thank God my husband was successful. What a realization. I needed that to get them more therapy than the school system provided. Without that they wouldn't be the successful young men they are today. Wow here is something I needed to figure out!
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
No prior to meeting him I was in college where we met & studied together. I had no self esteem. I found out a 2 decades later that I had borderline personality disorder. I was trying to commit suicide & I was in & out of hospitals. I was a giant mess.
He was crawling thru my windows to see if was OK. He was there! But about 10+ years ago I had been off all psych meds for a few years & I wasn't seeing my therapist. My best friend & I helped each other almost daily thru very difficult issues.
I became so clear after a few years. My marriage was healed & they were some of the most amazing years of our marriage. Then I got sick. It was horrible. At first thought I might have something possibly terminal.
The pain went up everyday. He was scared & I was terrified. He has trouble dealing with difficult things even with his parents. He did the best he could. Our plan. Now that I know he isn't falling apart. Gives me the power to enforce our rules.
Those rules force him to think of me in a respective manner. I realized with my 5.5 year Lyme timeout. I only wanted to love him & he didn't see it. He was hurt that I pulled for our kids. Our relationship before my son's diagnoses was good.
I have always been sick here & there. I had no energy left for left him. I begged him to get his own therapist for himself. I knew this was devastating to him. We have no family. He also protects me from things that he know will hurt me.
I know sounds it bazaar. I accept he is not in love with me now, but he loves me in a certain way. If we come back together no one knows. My therapist has met with him 6 - 8 times throughout a 13 year period.
She always says he really loves me. This is why she & even best friend. Say I have a chance a good chance. Even when I couldn't see it. We have both been thru so very much you have to understand there are so many other issues.
I am no fool I know I could also end up alone. I asked him when this all fell apart if I should go on a dating site. He said NO!
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
I really dont know what to tell you.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
Haley, that book looks interesting. my sister is going through something similar to what Gisele is and I am passing that book info onto her, as well as considering reading it myself! ALL marriage is very hard. very very hard work.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
GIsele,
I cannot read everything here, but I tried to read most of what you wrote.
I will tell you there are many similarities between us in our relationships with our men.
my husband used to be sort of like what your is doing.
First of all-- I really think tick disease plays a bigger part than you may realize. your husband probably has it too. the way you say he is acting sounds like it to me.
and your actions/words are saying to me that a lot of what you are experiencing is from the tick diseases too.
my husband and I went through years of torturous arguing and battling.
we also have kids with learning disabilities. all 3 were dx with dyslexia and ADHDI and all kinds of other things.
it has been no picnic! life is very tough, and throwing kids that are not typical into the mix really can rock yor world. we heard more than a few times from drs that 1 kid with LD is like having 5 normal ones. !!
and just when you think you've made some headway, someone in the family circle starts acting crazy and messes it all up just when you thought things were getting evened out!
my DH was similar to yours in that he seemed to not be able to make contact with his feelings in a communicative way. it was like talkking to a wall or a pile of rocks for me. blank blank blank.
some people just don't know how to relate to others.
I used what you are- that is giving comparisons that HE will understand and relate to.
it is good you started that and I say you should keep it up. use it every chance you get. this is what started to break the barrier between me and my DH. It really eases his mind when I use comparisons. it makes things real for him
I say, "when you do XYZ it makes me feel like (insert something he can relate to )" very simple and then let it go. I can really see his brain churning when I do this. but keep it to the point and very plain and simple. and then walk away, or look away or whatever.
I think this is what really saved my marriage. other than non stop prayer, or course.
we tried therapy. it was always horrible because I forced him to go.
I went for myself some times but never found a therapist that I could much relate to.
my DH used to hang out in the basement (unfinished) and did whatever down there and sometimes I would hear him cry out in horrible anger, like he was really struglling with himself.
honestly I think he was on verge of killing someone. that is how angry he used to be and how crazy it was here.
it is hard to keep things giong in an even way when we are sick.
now that I finally was dx and so were the rest of us , we are starting to heal. 2 (out of 3) kids are away at school now too, so that makes it a little easier to work on each other. rekindle lost love, etc.
I agree with Robin I think who said you need to find your own self.
you and your husband both do, I think. it sounds like he may never have even met his true self? that was my husband's thing. raised by 2 very dominant parents , the only son in an Italian family, there were many many expectations.
he was pretty much forced into the life my inlaws wanted for him. he was young, just 21, when we married (I am 6 yrs older than he). there are many variables......
I think the bottom line here, in my opinion, is to get yourself as well as possible first. put your energy into that. you have lots of energy and it needs a better direction than worrying about how he used to look at you with nice eyes or whatever.
we all had the best Romeos before marriage or early in marriage or none of us would be married, right? haha.
after you get your mind in the righ t place for you to heal the best way possible from your illnesses, *then* focus on other people.
I know this is very hard to do . you sound like a giver, like me. give give give.... that is what we live for, but as it was hard for me to hear a couple years ago too, it will make a differnce later and you will see.
if you can keep on track with personal healing, the rest will fall into place.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Editing out some previous thoughts because this just comes back to my mind, often, and it's the most immediate matter to consider:
So, please ask again, for your LLMD to be sure BARTONELLA has been assessed.
And be sure that your LLMD is fully "bartonella literate" so to speak. Tests are not always going to provide the answer so an experienced LLMD who has studied bartonella well is important.
This is so very important for brain & mood issues. Could be THE most important question to pursue right now. -
[ 02-18-2015, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Re Keebler's last line, and your statement about having had no self esteem early on, I'd like to say that anyone who's done battle for two sons with schools, insurance, etc is one strong person!
Also that you said you learned some sign language - to me that shows communication resourcefulness.
You may be in the midst of trying to get what you need, but I think you are also someone who could be proud of what you've accomplished so far.
You could try doing this -
take some slow deep breaths and then say to yourself:
I am strong I am resourceful I can get through this
I think it's a good idea to start building some positive self talk.
If you like doing this, you could do it throughout the day.
if you find anymore phrases to add, like "I am doing the best I can" is a good one, then you can add them. It would be good to grow a list. People with self esteem like themself and are supportive of themself. It's good to be on one's own side!
And many would say it doesn't even have to be conditional, that everyone is deserving of internal good self regard.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I am grasping at why he cannot be kind to me. When he was skiing for 7 days & added a day. All I asked was for kindness. My husband is kind to every one except me. Everyone in my family treats me like I am my old self. I feel so much like a fool. I let my husband and kids drift away due to their huge anxietis over illnesses. I have paid a very very large price. I have faced neurolyme plus all the other infections alone. He can't be kind to me because he just told me he feels nothing for me.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- If he actually says he cannot be kind to you because he feels nothing for you,
please inform him that kindness is still important. You will always be the mother of his sons and although they are now out on their own & even if your relationship shifts, you will all be family, moving forward.
This part may be hard to hear - and in all kindness and tenderness -
if you "hear" that his no longer having feelings for you is unkind in and of itself, that may not be the case [of being unkind in tone but the information may just be too hard for you to hear.]
There is also the nuance that he may feel some need to don a sort of persona of detachment in the need to re-establish this new "place" in the relationship between you.
It may take some time for you each to find your new "voices" here.
There are many variables here. Communication, as usually, it very involved.
You can certainly ask him if he might soften the tone, even if the bottom line information he is trying to convey is painful for you to hear.
You deserve a kind tone and - even if the honest truth hurts - there should still / always be a respect woven into talking.
[ 02-24-2015, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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LisaK
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posted
sounds like he needs a break.
is it fair? NO
but it is a reality in many relationships when big stressors are present: death of a child illness alcoholism drugaddction to name a few things that throw a marriage into dsruption.
may people feel they can't take any more when dealing with someone they love feeling sick - emothionally or physically sick
my husband told me other day that I need to not complain. I need to cope. I was so upset as I really don't complain even 1/8 of the amount I really would like to complain!
it is hard when everything in your body hurts all the time and then people expect you to have a smile or be chipper!
I have a ahard time with that. I am a *real* person and I express my emotions outwardly. if I hold them in I will kill myslef. just can't do it. tried to for years as a teen and almost killed myself many times.
So I asked DH about if he doensnt believe how sik I am sinc ehe told me to suck it up. he responded that he does know I am sick, but that it just takes so much out of him to see me or hear about it all the time because he feels so helpless and can't stand for me to be like this for my own sake.
well, that may be something likewhat your husbnad is feeling???
mine told me his true feelings after I asked the simple question of what he meant by what he said .
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Lisa,
It seems that few can't connect when others are in pain. I wonder if it might help if you explain that you just need to "exclaim" not "complain" and that you don't expect him to do anything about it. You just need to state - at particular times that you are in pain and then move along.
This seems to work for me with certain friends if I need to explain why focusing is hard, etc.
Like being outside in the bitter cold. A lot of folks are more exclaiming the fact - the real bitter fact - it IS cold. The facts are just so strong that putting a voice to the situation is needed to expel some of that pressure.
Our tone of voice, though, can make a big difference in this. And when someone is tired and ill, they just can't "do" a neutral exclamation and others may "hear" their weakness as whining.
I even had a doctor say this about those with fatigue. He just hated hearing their "whining voices" as he actually called it. He should have chosen a different field of work if he could not understand that even in a tired voice, someone just needs to put a voice to what's going on.
When we can, we might try to shift our voice or breath (and still be real) so that we have more freedom to simply exclaim when we need to do so.
Yet, the action of listening - the desire for a spouse to WANT to know how "it is" for the other . . . well, that's very nice when it's there.
Even among strangers, a person wanting to know "how it is" for another - even if it's not all happy times and cheery talk . . . well, not everyone is taught this. My hope is that more will learn it, though, because it's so very important to be able to connect on levels that really matter.
It can be impossible to be a good friend (let along a good partner) if one is not able to be a good listener. No connection without that. Good thing it's a learned skill . . . always hope. -
[ 02-24-2015, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Gisele,
Similarly to suggestion above with tone and intent of message, while it is very hard to hear the content of his message,
ask him to work with you so that you both can give some thought to the way you both talk together as you go through this shift -
with the tone and manner grounded in respect. With a kind smile, just add "because that matters so very much."
[ 02-24-2015, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Lisa, I can relate.. Just tell him sometimes "May I just express what I am feeling right now because I hurt very badly? I don't expect you to do anything but listen."
Tell him what you need to .. and finish it off with "I love you!"
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I think a dialogue still needs to happen while you are in this shift phase -
One way to approach it is to say, "Well, I am ill (that's in case there's any doubt about it) and I would appreciate some kindness. What would you like?"
Then listen to his answer. You don't even have to answer it, just listen. And maybe say, "I'll get back to you on that one."
Ideally to have both of you talking about what you each want from the other. Of course you may not be able to give what the other wants. But the first step is just hearing what each wants.
Because the solutions may come down the road, after both of you have thought about it some. Sometimes you have to give some time to figure the new way, and that's ok.
Same deal with your family, who you said doesn't think you're ill? Same opening statement with them. You don't have to like what you hear, but it's important that you and they hear, so that the relationships can begin to be better negotiated.
No, people may not get what we're going through. However, we can change the manner of the interaction with them.
I think it's also important to grow a sense of self that is not a reflection of what someone thinks about us. It means to know that you are a worthy person in your own right.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355
posted
Some people, especially men (sorry to generalize, but it is true) cannot deal with bad situations that they are powerless to change. They don't like the powerless feeling. Perhaps women are more accustomed to feeling powerless! And more often than not, men run away from such a situation. I feel that in this way, women are the stronger gender. Recognizing that some men and women will not fit this characterization.
And I don't get the part about not being able to be kind because he feels nothing for you now. WHAT??? We can be kind to strangers for whom we have no personal feelings at all. Kindness is not conditional.
Whether religious or not, read 1 Corinthians 13:13. Love is not restricted to romantic feelings.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Stumbled upon this today . . . a very nice video.
Other than examining, exploring, altering communication techniques & honing interpretation / clarification of messages of yourself and spouse . . .
in addition to trying to look at the mechanics of all that in a rather matter of fact way [so that it may not hurt so much (?)]
BOOK - Emotional First Aid: Healing Rejection, Guilt, Failure, and Other Everyday Hurts
by Guy Winch Ph.D. - see 38 reader reviews, 4.5 av. stars
- Paperback, Kindle or Hardcover – July 29, 2014 -
[ 02-25-2015, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- A little diversion that I hope you enjoy. Lake Tahoe is first on the list today - I replayed the sunny ski run 3 times ! [in last third of film, you might want to turn down volume as they move in to a dance bar for a bit].
posted
Yes my husband needs a break but from what?? He is living his life already as a single man while I am still so very very ill. He sleeps upstairs & I live downstairs in the guest room. He has not done what a grown man should have done much less a husband.
I have lived these past 5.5 years in so much pain & dysfunction as you all know. When my husband said he didn't love me anymore it was such an immense blow. I love & loved him so completely I couldn't see what was going on. He has never given me nor has anyone else given me much emotional or physical support.
It was the love for my family, just the 4 of us, that was the motivation for me to keep going. He has now altered that idea. I find the fact that I was so sick & unaware, he couldn't deal with my illnesses, thus he developed another life without me in it.
Now that I am becoming more aware of what is going on he seems unaware or unable of how to be kind & respectful or how to be a husband again. It is so painful that he was there for me, so little of the time.
I knew he couldn't handle it, but that doesn't mean he gets to be ugly to me. I don't understand how someone loving can do this. He still cares or he wouldn't be here anymore. He admitted that he said he didn't care anymore out of anger.
I feel it's unfair that he came to a place of not being in love with me, while it gets thrown in my face, while I'm fighting to get my life back. I deserve time to reflect & definitely get some couples counseling. Not sure if we should wait or not for counciling?
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Lisa it is nice to know someone else who lives with a man who won't respond. No one know's how truly difficult that is. My husband was also the oldest child, very important in his culture also. He choose to stay in the states. I was willing to move there for him but he decided to stay.
He is also rarely home. Not much time to talk or remember what to talk about. The kids always have issues I usually have to fix or work on. He says just let them work it out. How do kids on the autistic spectrum just work it out without causing problems somewhere else in their live's.
They both have great futures they are working on & can't be left to drown in needless issues. He doesnt know how to deal with his own kids because he could not deal with their issues. I get it, his coping skills are lacking. He is 53. He needs to learn how to cope better than his own children.
I'm sorry raising our kids took every fiber of my being. I should've been able to depend on him then. He focused on his career instead. I know watching me go thru this illness has caused him great pain & sorrow. I rarely speak of my illness. We both live in some state of denial.
I just expected more from the man I married. We have been thru so many hurdles in our lives. I never ever thought when I needed him he would bale. This was the first time in 33 years I was so broken but his love & care would have meant the world to me.
Fortunately he will never ever know how horrific this illness really was. I feel that he owes me. The only thing I did was get sick & he says I did nothing. He says it's his fault. Where to go now?
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Where to go now? Reclaim your life! The way you want to live it. You may need to think about that, what you want, and how you wish to go about getting it, and who may be allies with you. And yes, I think a good counselor can help you sort through this and be on YOUR side!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Just keep in mind that a good counselor, who will be on YOUR side will help you be strong in your own right, given whatever the circumstances may be.
A good counselor is there to listen to us - to really hear us.
Yet, a good counselor does not so much take sides in that they tell us what we want to hear. They can reassure is in how they guide us to open our eyes and hearts.
They help us sort out the sometimes rough realities, help us build skills in managing emotions & practical matters and help us get stronger. This, over time, helps those rough realities not be really so rough at all.
Much is done though sharpening listening skills - cutting through to the real issues
and also how to organize the major points of our action plans (or inaction where that is appropriate).
How can we learn the difference in talking to air emotions . . . and then talking to solve differences or listening to hear others' needs? Is the signal coming through clearly? How do we ask for clarification to be sure we all understand each other?
Communication skills are very complex. And it can take a lifetime to learn some of this.
No one can change certain facts - or how others around you may feel or what they need.
How to figure out what you need - and that is not always what we might first think.
A good counselor can help you sort out, go deeper yet develop a method / a template to see things in a clearer light, with a lighter heart
and help you see various ways to think / feel about all this, to reframe,
and find various ways to work out what will best serve your sense of peace & inner strength as you move forward in life.
In addition to counseling, it seems that some kind of fun is long overdue. It may be tricky yet I hope you can find some degree of fun, laughter, enjoyment, appreciation . . . if you can't get out to play, bring play into your life somehow. -
[ 03-07-2015, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
What Keebler and I are saying is, it's about finding you again, and not dependent on someone else's opinions of you. So I think it takes a little exploration to do that, and perhaps best done with a counselor's assistance.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Thank you keeper for emotional for emotional first aid. It is palatable to those not in our place. I have shared this. I agaim looking for a new therapist. Thank you!!!!!!
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Hey, you're on page 2! So happy to hear you're looking for a new therapist! Gisele, I want you to take the bull by the horns, so to speak, and start getting your life back, little by little, have patience, and the goal is to have a better time of it down the road...
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
keebler, lymetoo, yes, I have done as you both suggest. I rarely complain. at least compared to how much I COULD complain.
like the other day I mentioned how something hurt "more" today with the weather changing,I think it was my shoulder or omething, I don't remember. and my DH said he didn't know that (my shoulder) gave me pain.
I told him, "yes dear, I don't tell you everything that hurts because I would never stop telling you things" with a smile. I could see he ws thinking.... he got really quiet.
my son told me he thinks I am faking it because no one could have gone through what I did and not been in hospital or dead, so I must have been exaggerating. he is 16 so I fogive him of his stupidity and ignorance.
My husband has told me a few times now that it pains him to hear about my lyme, etc. he cannot take it any more. and it isn't from me "complaining" becasue he has told me so.
I think it is a male/provide thing.
Gisele, that is why I think your husband is avoiding. I suspect he doesn't know what to do for you any more. he wasn't taught when the going gets tough the tough get going. or maybe he was, but just isn't emotionally or mentally capable.
my husband blocks out things when he is suffering from things he doesn't know how to handle that come from other people. my BIL does same thing- he has 5 kids and always gets a job working all night and sleeping all day and then complains about eerything. so obviously avoiding.
pain is like any other thing that needs or deserves a response to help let it out.
we can't punch a punching bag (or other people, haha) because it physically is impossible. we can't run it out, or eat it out , and we shouldn't scream it out..... what else is there besides telling a select few pleople that are as close to us as possible that we are hurting?
I guess I tell Jesus sometimes, and that helps, but I am a sharing person. I share everything with people I love. If my husband told me he didn't want to hear it from me any more I would tell him the same thing the next time he complained about anything. but my man responds well to that type of reverse psychology. maybe yours doesn't
I never found any therapist that could ever help me much. I hope you do. I get most of my help from reading and searching for my own help. when times get really tough all I can rely on is prayer. there is nothing else then.
just realize that it is a long slow process. just like most everything.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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LisaK
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41384
posted
Gisele, I want to add that I know you say you don't complain. that is not what I am saying when I said that above near the bottom of my post.
I am just saying that maybe your man needs to know a bit more about how the other side is feeling/thinking.- the other side is you.
it sounds like you have held a lot in during your relationship, is that true?
do you have a journal that you can write in? journaling can reallly help us with our own recoveries and hardships. it sounds stupid, but it really can help.
-------------------- Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen Posts: 3592 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2013
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WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581
posted
I haven't read or processed everything here. But when you said, "He spent every night looking on the computer for answers," that jumped out at me. That sounds like the actions of someone who loves you very much.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lisa,
a few posts up you write:
"keebler, lymetoo, yes, I have done as you both suggest. I rarely complain." (end quote)
I don't think I would ever suggest to not complain - at least not without some qualification to that.
If about expressing one's self, especially. I'm against holding that all in.
Although, certainly the definition of "complain" is often that of not being productive with one person on the offensive, putting the other to take on the defensive mode.
If my words were interpreted as "do not complain" something went terribly wrong with words.
It's just not that clear. One must have open lines of communication and be free to voice what's going on with them.
Oh, now I'm thinking it might have been voice tone I was talking about that really can tank any conversation when the voice tone is off kilter.
And this is why it's so important to seek out professional counselors who can help not just with sorting out issues, getting to the real issues . . . helping sort out WHAT to say to be to the point of the issues . . . and also HOW to say that,
including getting into the right frame of mind for certain conversations, asking if this is a good time to talk - or setting a time so that important issues can be discussed in a sort of business meeting, with all having neutral ground to lay concerns and work toward mutually workable solutions.
As for hurt feelings, that can be very tricky as to voice our deep hurt and not have the ears of others hear that as whiny. Again, a counselor is so very helpful and when one can be centered in the right place (of spirit, so to speak) the voice tends to be more appropriate. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lisa, I can relate.. Just tell him sometimes "May I just express what I am feeling right now because I hurt very badly? I don't expect you to do anything but listen."
Tell him what you need to .. and finish it off with "I love you!"
-
I didn't say anything about "not complaining" either.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I feel like such a fool. I keeping asking him to go to couples counseling. He avoids talking about it. We are going thru a lot of turmoil with my son and his girlfriend. My husband said to me "he doesn't want to be with her anymore. Why are you forcing them together when your not in love with someone anymore you don't want to be together".
He said it like a growl while they were talking in another room. I feel apart later I could not believe what he said. How you go from being an amazing person to an idiot is beyond me.
If his friends, collegues or clients understood how he is caring for me they would be shocked. He still has a lady friend. I don't know what to think anymore! When I say should I look for someone else he says no.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
No I haven't the energy to journal. I started a gratitude journal. I don't know how I made it this far holding my family together inaddition to being severely ill. I have never been allowed to complain since a child. My husband doesn't handle difficult issues well and is a hypochondriac. I listen to everyone else. I think my family doesn't even think of me as ill anymore. I got an ear full from my son at Christmas who is away at college. I can't bbelieve
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Maybe it's time to complain some! My opinion is that he should go to couples therapy with you - the therapist can help you both express what's on your minds and come to greater understanding of one another and what you plan to do in the future. It can be very helpful.
Maybe there's a way to make it sound more like a positive experience - say you want it, in order to help you both and the family. Maybe there's a way to say it with honey, instead of vinegar, so to speak.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- One thing to be very clear about when you ask again is that there is no goal - none whatsoever - other than for you two to talk, getting to the real issues and just express what each is feeling with no one trying to talk anyone into anything.
And there is to zero judgment. Zero. On either part. It is to be safe space for each to be.
If he feels like this will be a safe place for him as well as for you, that can make all the difference.
Expectations are also to be set aside during the process - other than for respect and honesty -- and effort in exploring.
And, yes, at this point it seems that a professional would be best to lead that journey. They can stop you when fluff is flying around and ask the real questions.
They can help you each stop trying to second guess the other and also help not to interpret the other's words by what you WISH to hear.
It's communication from the ground up.
This is neither to save nor end the marriage. As with happiness, one cannot just acquire it. It's a byproduct. Whatever the relationship moves to will be a byproduct of the skills acquired, work done and - well, whatever else the two of you will work out.
Counseling is to be a safe place for each of you to communicate thoughts, feelings without interruption -- to sort out key issues and needs of each as you move forward for whatever stage is next.
That may involve eventually reconciling the marriage. It may not. It may come to ending the marriage, it may not. Neither is not the goal of counseling.
The goal is to facilitate healthy communication so that it's possible to see the issues like an outline - get to know what you each need - and what common goals you may have -- before you make decisions.
This is about meeting in the middle - at the foundation and take a look at where there may need to be some supports added here, some stuff that is not working removed there. And how you each envision the end product.
Talking is easy. Words can fly out fast. But communicating - that is a real skill and a true art. And most of us are never taught to even listen properly, the first step.
Beyond that, most of us are never taught how to sort out the real issue. And when our emotions get in the way, it can be nearly impossible to sort that without a neutral guide. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks, Keebler! You've just spelled out what safe and effective therapy sessions are all about!
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Thank you. I know from another source he wishes to separate. He knows I cannot take care of myself and have nowhere to turn. How fair is it when we were good 5.5 years ago before I got sick and for more than 4 years everything was fine. We were looking to relocate to the city and spent lots of time looking at condos. After he was going to see them he begged me to come. I was exhausted, I still am. I sat him down and said at that time I couldn't go. I now wish I would have dragged myself. It broke the spell and ever since he has slowly moved away. Every time the reality of my disease is front and center he falls apart. The reality of my disease was too much for him to bare. Yet where does that leave me. I never ever thought to be here. I thought he couldn't deal with my disease which is why I never leaned that hard on him. It was excruciating to go thru this oddisey alone. I still have a good year 9r so
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
I have done more for him than most women ever would. I put up with a lot. I have always waited for so long to be alone with him. Away from our 2 special needs children. Who took all my attention. Who still today & probably forever will need our help.
There needs are draining and my husband is incapable of being there for our children. I kept telling him to go to therapy for himself knowing all this was too much to take in. He had never gone before.
It seems the therapy has not helped at all to give him perspective or coping skills. He seems like my child rather than my husband. We have a new roof to get he just looks the other way. He doesn't want to deal with any reality than work and fun.
I am embarrassed at my husbands lack of coping with reality and the way he treats me. What grown man of 53 looks at his sick wife and goes and party and on trips with his friends. I know he is going thru his mid life crisis and doesn't want to waste his life with pain and agony. But I am living in the real he'll with no support
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
That's too bad about your husband not being there to meet responsibilities.
Don't know if this is appropriate for you or not at this time, but can you think of anything you could do that would earn you a little money?
Or anything that would start to give you more of a life for you? You don't have to know what that is right away, but to be looking at the question of some life activities that might belong to you that you could start to engage in.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I cant drive yet. I cant get to my Dr's on time. This has been going on since the last year. He doesn't seem to care. He took me to my pain Dr,but I still need to see my LLDR & my neurologist before my son comes back from college.
I was using my son's girlfriend but she is busy everyday now. My Picc line got pulled because it was clogged and I probably need another one. I tried to find a taxi service and I'm not having a lot of luck. Most are not in business.
I feel like I don't matter. My needs have no worth. He is going to be out of town for Easter. I said we could celebrate next week. We celebrated few holidays last year after over 34 years of celebrating all the holidays he didn't care.
If I don't know he thinks its OK to let it go.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Im still very ill I cannot hardly care for myself. I rarely wash my hair because it is too hard. He always said he would help but he still has not. I need any good ideas for ENERGY!!
I know if I could clean he would be more happy. We have the money for help,but he never hired anyone. I thinks its unfair everything falls in my lap. 5.5+ years of little cleaning.
My house is a wreck. I feel like he has some ownership in taking care of things. Its like a child who closes his eyes & hopes it will go away
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Gisele, you do matter and your needs do have worth. You just happen to be partnered with someone who doesn't understand that and reflect that back to you. But you are a person on this planet, as much as anyone else.
No taxi service where you are? Could you keep trying to find transportation to get to the doc?
Any Lyme support groups near you at all? You could use some friends, I think.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I feel unloved and rejected. Its like I have no worth. I have to go to where he is to sleep with him before he fell out of love with me which require me to go upstairs.
I just cannot recognize this person. He is depressed. I just want him to see how much better I am. I want him to see life in our family again as s
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
I will carry on as always. I don't require someone to get me well. I have gotten this far almost strictly on my own strong desire to be well. If anyone had scene us before giggling like kids.
We have a strong bond. Our marriage was one people admired. If I had had his emotional support I would be further in my recovery. I don't understand how a partner can justify to himself that he has little responsibility.
How he even gets up everyday and looks in the mirror without disgust is beyond my comprehension. He should be ashamed of himself but he is not. Why is his life more important than mine.
Why he isn't responsible to give me some care that allows me a quality of life. He is teaching our sons not to live up to their responsibilitis. It is not the man I know. When I was so sick he choose to slowly move away I did not.
Why do I have no recourse. I need go to couples counciling. He doesn't want to go. I can't even get to my own therapist. He can schedule a car. I am shocked and appalled to see the man I love dissolve into this uncaring entity.
How sick do you have to be to let your wife rot while you are out having fun. I gave him so many idea's he is a very selfish man!!! I just think he is disgusting.
He still has his lady friend. What can I do. Ive said do you want me to meet someone else. He says no. I said I should get dresses up and go to the bar since he wont have sex with me even before this last year.
I don't want to get into petty actions. I just want him to talk to me and treat me with respect and kindness, as I have always done to him. Why I don't deserve that treatment is beyond me.
I have only tried to love him & our children. I have done all I could to makes his life and our children's lives seasier. We shared
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
His actions are already being reflected back in his children's actions. He thinks he is being a good dad taking his kids to hockey games, bowling & movies.
He doesn't want to have the deep talks and teach his boys to be men. He already acts like a divorced dad. It is disgusting. He wont make any effort to include me.
why I am not fun!! I don't know where my husband went, but it's like he is an alien. I know it is impart due to his lack of coping skills but this is ridiculous. Why am I stuck dealing with this.
I need peace, respect, & kindness I should always be treated in this manner.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Gisele,
The pain of all this is one matter. The fear is another. The exhaustion another - and being ill & exhausted likely hampers being able to . . . (even think, for me, now, apparently).
Likely, no matter how my idea of a "safe" place to learn to talk again counseling is not going to make much of an impression if he is intent on not going.
Try again, and tell him you need help with all this communication stuff - as many do. And you would really appreciate his involvement, with no strings other than to open up good foundation for communication between you two.
As sad as loss can be, in my experience it can be made so much worse by continuing expectations that just don't line up anymore. We cannot make someone feel for us any particular way. And, usually if we sway that, it can spell doom, anyway.
I'm concerned that at least three times you suggest finding someone else, even now, right now - or getting dressed up and going to bars to find a guy so that you can feel loved.
Please, with such a tender heart now - and some bits of anger that can spin us into danger - that's not a safe direction to be headed.
No one else can just step in and fill the picture. You need to find and reclaim yourself first. Enjoy live on your own terms without a partner for a while.
Do not let fear to spin you like a top.
I have to stop now. can't finish any thought. Please get some professional guidance on all this, emotionally and legally. It just makes sense to find experts in these matters.
And keep trying to find independence as best you can with volunteer suggestions posted earlier for you. You have strength. And you can feel strong, just within yourself, even if your body isn't ready to rock 'n roll.
There are many ways your relationship might be reconfigured. You deserve some clarification. A good certified marriage & family therapist likely has some legal suggestions, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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momindeep
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7618
posted
I think when a spouse cheats it oftentimes causes the injured party to enact revenge and/or desirability...totally understandable but an unwise move.
Sinking to you husband's level lacks class and you sound like a classy woman Gisele.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I learned today he is so traumatized by the last few years he can't even remember happy memories. We have been together for 33 years and married 28.
I was shocked. I know he is depressed. I know he never deals well with upheaval. I just never knew how badly this affected him.
No wonder he doesn't want to spend time with me. I feel so bad that we didn't go to couple's counseling before. I pushed him to go to his own counseling.
He seems worse from even that. I just wanted him to be as whole as possible to deal with everything on his plate. I just want him to be happy.
I only spoke of looking for someone else to see how he felt. He has a lady friend whom he is just friends with. I am glad he had someone to talk to.
It hurt my feelings when I have only one friend who is very busy. I now feel horrible for yelling at him this morning to see his shell shocked face.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
I wish I could leave to do something else. You guys don't understand I can hardly care for myself. I cant drive, cook, clean or wash my hair. Ive come about 50% but I have little energy.
If I push I get migraines & can cause me so much pain. Writing this gives me migraines. If anyone know a good way to get energy. I'm all ears. I take a good amount of vitamins or I would never move.
-------------------- Homebound with Lyme since Nov 1, 2009. Diagnosed with Lyme & confections in July 2011. IV antibiotic therapy for 4 & 1/2 years still on oral. Originally ill in '97 with arthritis that quickly spread to all my large joints, then CFS & fibro. Posts: 51 | From Chicago | Registered: Jun 2011
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