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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Off Topic » Democratic Congressmen that said Bush lied about Iraq, Really??

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Author Topic: Democratic Congressmen that said Bush lied about Iraq, Really??
weeza3
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"[WE] urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002


"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction...So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


SO NOW EVERY ONE OF THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED--THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND HE TOOK US TO WAR UNNECESSARILY!

Send this to everybody you know..
The media and networks won't do it.
Why do you suppose that is?


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Mo
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The information given these men at the time was all they had to go on. The intelligence reports "presented" were skewed to fit the agenda to go in..

As deliniated below. Check out what even Powell later admitted about the situation.

People must look at the whole picture, not just extract what supports thier own beliefs.

*******************************************
CBS News


The Man Who Knew
Feb. 4, 2004


In February, Secretary of State Colin Powell made a surprising admission.

He told The Washington Post that he doesn't know whether he would have recommended the invasion of Iraq if he had been told at the time that there were no stockpiles of banned weapons.

Powell said that when he made the case for war before the United Nations one year ago, he used evidence that reflected the best judgments of the intelligence agencies.

But long before the war started, there was plenty of doubt among intelligence analysts about Saddam's weapons.

One analyst, Greg Thielmann, told Correspondent Scott Pelley last October that key evidence cited by the administration was misrepresented to the public.

Thielmann should know. He had been in charge of analyzing the Iraqi weapons threat for Powell's own intelligence bureau.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
``I had a couple of initial reactions. Then I had a more mature reaction,'' says Thielmann, commenting on Powell's presentation to the United Nations last February.

``I think my conclusion now is that it's probably one of the low points in his long, distinguished service to the nation."

Thielmann was a foreign service officer for 25 years. His last job at the State Department was acting director of the Office of Strategic Proliferation and Military Affairs, which was responsible for analyzing the Iraqi weapons threat.

He and his staff had the highest security clearances, and saw virtually everything - whether it came into the CIA or the Defense Department.

Thielmann was admired at the State Department. One high-ranking official called him honorable, knowledgeable, and very experienced. Thielmann had planned to retire just four months before Powell's big moment before the U.N. Security Council.

On Feb. 5, 2003, Secretary Powell presented evidence against Saddam:
``The gravity of this moment is matched by the gravity of the threat that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction pose to the world."

At the time, Thielmann says that Iraq didn't pose an imminent threat to the U.S.: ``I think it didn't even constitute an imminent threat to its neighbors at the time we went to war.''

And Thielmann says that's what the intelligence really showed. For example, he points to the evidence behind Powell's charge that Iraq was importing aluminum tubes to use in a program to build nuclear weapons.

Powell said: ``Saddam Hussein is determined to get his hands on a nuclear bomb. He is so determined that he has made repeated covert attempts to acquire high-specification aluminum tubes from 11 different countries even after inspections resumed.''

``This is one of the most disturbing parts of Secretary Powell's speech for us,'' says Thielmann.

Intelligence agents intercepted the tubes in 2001, and the CIA said they were parts for a centrifuge to enrich uranium -- fuel for an atom bomb. But Thielmann wasn't so sure.

Experts at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the scientists who enriched uranium for American bombs, advised that the tubes were all wrong for a bomb program. At about the same time, Thielmann's office was working on another explanation. It turned out the tubes' dimensions perfectly matched an Iraqi conventional rocket.

``The aluminum was exactly, I think, what the Iraqis wanted for artillery,'' recalls Thielmann, who says he sent that word up to the Secretary of State months before.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Houston Wood was a consultant who worked on the Oak Ridge analysis of the tubes. He watched Powell's speech, too.

``I guess I was angry, that's the best way to describe my emotions. I was angry at that,'' says Wood, who is among the world's authorities on uranium enrichment by centrifuge. He found the tubes couldn't be what the CIA thought they were. They were too heavy, three times too thick and certain to leak.

"Wasn't going to work. They would have failed," says Wood, who reached that conclusion back in 2001.

Thielmann reported to Secretary Powell's office that they were confident the tubes were not for a nuclear program. Then, about a year later, when the administration was building a case for war, the tubes were resurrected on the front page of The New York Times.

``I thought when I read that there must be some other tubes that people were talking about. I just was flabbergasted that people were still pushing that those might be centrifuges,'' says Wood.

The New York Times reported that senior administration officials insisted the tubes were for an atom-bomb program.

``Science was not pushing this forward. Scientists had made their determination, their evaluation, and now we didn't know what was happening,'' says Wood.

In his U.N. speech, Secretary Powell acknowledged there was disagreement about the tubes, but he said most experts agreed with the nuclear theory.

``There is controversy about what these tubes are for. Most U.S. experts think they are intended to serve as rotors in centrifuges used to enrich uranium,'' said Powell.

``Most experts are located at Oak Ridge and that was not the position there,'' says Wood, who claims he doesn't know anyone in academia or foreign government who would disagree with his appraisal. ``I don't know a single one anywhere.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would the secretary take the information that Thielmann's intelligence bureau had developed and turn it on its head?

``I can only assume that he was doing it to loyally support the President of the United States and build the strongest possible case for arguing that there was no alternative to the use of military force,'' says Thielmann.

That was a case the president himself was making only eight days before Secretary Powell's speech. In his State of the Union address, the president said: ``The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear-weapons production.''

After the war, the White House said the African uranium claim was false and shouldn't have been in the president's address. But at the time, it was part of a campaign that painted the intelligence as irrefutable.

``There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us,'' said Vice President Dick Cheney.

Powell said: ``My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence."

It was solid intelligence, Powell said, that proved Saddam had amassed chemical and biological weapons: ``Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical-weapons agent.''

He also said that part of the stockpile was clearly in these bunkers: ``The four that are in red squares represent active chemical munitions bunkers. How do I know that, how can I say that? Let me give you a closer look.''

Up close, Powell said you could see a truck for cleaning up chemical spills, a signature for a chemical bunker: ``It's a decontamination vehicle in case something goes wrong.''

But Thielmann disagreed with Powell's statement: ``My understanding is that these particular vehicles were simply fire trucks. You cannot really describe as being a unique signature.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Satellite photos were also notoriously misleading, according to Steve Allinson, a U.N. inspector in Iraq in the months leading up to war.

Was there ever a time when American satellite intelligence provided Allinson with something that was truly useful?

``No. No, not to me. Not on inspections that I participated in,'' says Allinson, whose team was sent to find decontamination vehicles that turned out to be fire trucks.

Another time, a satellite spotted what they thought were trucks used for biological weapons.

``We were told we were going to the site to look for refrigerated trucks specifically linked to biological agents,'' says Allinson. ``We found 7 or 8 of them, I think, in total. And they had cobwebs in them. Some samples were taken and nothing was found.''

If Allinson doubted the satellite evidence, Thielmann watched with worry as Secretary Powell told the Security Council that human intelligence provided conclusive proof.

Thielmann says that many of the human sources were defectors who came forward with an ax to grind. But how reliable was the defector information they received?

``I guess I would say, frequently we got bad information,'' says Thielmann.

Some of it came from defectors supplied by the Iraqi National Congress, the leading exile group headed by Ahmed Chalabi.

``You had the Iraqi National Congress with a clear motive for presenting the worst possible picture of what was happening in Iraq to the American government,'' says Thielmann.

But there was a good deal more in Secretary Powell's speech that bothered the analysts. Powell claimed Saddam still had a few dozen Scud missiles.

``I wondered what he was talking about,'' says Thielmann. ``We did not have evidence that the Iraqis had those missiles, pure and simple.''
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last week, David Kay, the former chief U.S. arms inspector, said his team found no stockpiles of banned weapons. His assessment of 12 years of U.S. intelligence was this: "Let me begin by saying we were almost all wrong and I certainly include myself here. ... My view was that the best evidence that I had seen was that Iraq indeed had weapons of mass destruction."

Secretary Powell declined an interview for this broadcast. But as 60 Minutes II mentioned earlier, Powell told The Washington Post this week that he doesn't know if he would have recommended invasion if he'd know then that there were no stockpiles of weapons.

But Tuesday, he added this: "The bottom line is this. The president made the right decision. He made the right decision based on the history of this regime, the intention that this terrible leader, terrible despotic leader had the capabilities on a variety of levels. The delivery systems there were there, and nobody's debating that, the infrastructure that was there, the technical know-how that was there. The only thing we are debating are the stockpiles."

Thursday marks one year since Secretary Powell's U.N. speech. In that time, Thielmann has come to his own conclusion about the presentation. He believes the decision to go to war was made - and intelligence was interpreted to fit that conclusion.

"There's plenty of blame to go around. The main problem was that the senior administration officials have what I call faith-based intelligence. They knew what they wanted the intelligence to show," says Thielmann.

"They were really blind and deaf to any kind of countervailing information the intelligence community would produce. I would assign some blame to the intelligence community and most of the blame to the senior administration officials."

This week, President Bush said an independent commission will investigate the intelligence failures on Iraq.



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Pepsi
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quote:
Originally posted by 24-bit:
I always trust CBS for my news coverage.

ur so smart

[This message has been edited by Pepsi (edited 20 October 2004).]


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Mo
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The content was regarding intelligence reports and Powell.

It seems ANY source that opposes your views is laughed away...numerous sources have been rejected ..

But the content is what is conveniently dismissed. The intelligence reports themselves..and what the admin presented in opposition to those reports as well as the content of the reports themselves is documented in numerous sources. I hope some folks will read the article desoite the dissmisive commentary.

24, you have only one source you have in past posts deemed as credible.. How so?


Friday, September 06, 2002
By Carl Cameron

WASHINGTON -- Intelligence on Iraq that the Bush administration will present to Congress includes information on how dangerously close Saddam Hussein has come to developing a nuclear weapon, Fox News has learned.

Sources told Fox News that there is also new information indicating that Iraq has developed new methods of chemical- and biological-weapon delivery, and also of contact between Baghdad and Al Qaeda before and after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

From Vienna, the head of the U.N. nuclear inspection team said Friday that satellite photographs shows unexplained recent construction at Iraqi nuclear sites.

French physicist Jacques Baute, of the International Atomic Energy Organization, said reviews of images taken since 1999 show "some buildings that have been reconstructed ... and some new buildings [that] have been erected," at sites his team had visited in the past.

Without identifying them, Baute described the sites as having potential "dual-use capabilities," meaning they could potentially be locations for both civilian and military nuclear programs.

Surrounded by security, Vice President Dick Cheney and CIA Director George Tenet arrived on Capitol Hill Thursday to brief the top two lawmakers from each party in the House and Senate.


Afterward, Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott, R-Miss., spoke to Fox News and said: "It was an important briefing -- there was some new information included in it. ... Is there evidence that he is getting prepared to be able to use biological, chemical and nuclear weapons and be able to deliver them? Yes!"

Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert seemed dour as he left the meeting -- and he also confirmed to Fox News that new intelligence about Saddam's threat and pursuit of weapons of mass destruction had been provided.

Despite the new information, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., told Fox News he remains reluctant to support military action.

While President Bush began taking his case for ousting Saddam to Americans outside the Beltway Thursday, members of his administration worked to energize a dialogue for action touched off this week by the White House.

"I take the fact that he [Saddam] develops weapons of mass destruction very seriously. I remember the fact that he has invaded two countries before. I know for a fact that he's poisoned his own people," Bush told his audience at a welcome rally in Louisville, Ky.

"He doesn't believe in the worth of each individual," he added. "He doesn't believe in public dissent."

Bush said Wednesday that he would seek congressional approval before any military action against Iraq. Sources told Fox News that two rough dates have been set for hearings by the House International Relations Committee -- one for closed-door, classified hearings with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on Sept. 16; the other a week later on Sept. 23 for open hearings with Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Hastert confirmed Congress would indeed vote before the Nov. 5 midterm elections on how to deal with Saddam.

Richard Armitage, deputy secretary of state, told a Washington, D.C., luncheon audience Thursday that he believed it "very incumbent upon us to explain our case very well throughout the world, including the Arab world of course, and then to enlist as many like-minded folks to move forward with us," he said. "My own view is all of these efforts are better off done in a multilateral context."

Bush administration officials have also told Fox News that they are looking at a proposal that would utilize 50,000 troops to back up U.N. weapons inspectors in Iraq as they attempt to assess the magnitude of Saddam's arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. Officials concede that it would be unlikely that the Iraqi dictator would go along with such a scheme.

Powell said the proposal did not come up in his discussions Thursday. He also said that the administration did not think it wise to prematurely "pigeonhole" any future move as multilateral or unilateral "but to make sure that the world understands the threat as clearly as we believe it should understand this threat, because it is a real one," he told reporters.

Meanwhile, Democrats on the Hill said Thursday that they are looking forward to the additional information the administration has promised to provide regarding its arguments that a regime change in Iraq is in order. Daschle told reporters that he hopes that Bush will seek out not only the support of congress, but that of the U.N. as well.

"I would think the United States would want to be in the same position it was at the point when we went to the U.N. in the early 90s [for the Persian Gulf War]," Daschle said. "If the international community supports it, if we can get the information we've been seeking, then I think we can move to a resolution.

"But short of that, I think it would be difficult for us to move until that information is provided and some indication of the level of international support is also evident," he added.

The White House certainly faces touch scrutiny of its plans, including that of former President Jimmy Carter, who declared in a Washington Post op-ed piece Thursday that "a unilateral war with Iraq is not the answer," and that such action would "alienate our necessary allies."

But Bush promised Wednesday to approach world leaders with his arguments for ousting the Iraqi dictator. He is meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who has expressed agreement already that Saddam is a threat to global security, at Camp David this weekend. And the president will be speaking at the U.N. on Sept. 12.

Arab League chief Amr Moussa charged Thursday that any strike by the U.S. would "open the gates of hell" in the Middle East, and urged Baghdad to re-admit weapons inspectors.

"We will continue to work to avoid a military confrontation or a military action because we believe that it will open the gates of hell in the Middle East," he told reporters.

Meanwhile, it was reported today that the Army recently moved weaponry and war supplies from the Gulf nation of Qatar to a base in Kuwait near the Iraqi border to check their condition and test procedures that would be used in the event Bush orders preparations for war.

Army Secretary Thomas White said the movement was designed to periodically validate the condition of the military's weaponry and equipment, but "we've done nothing specifically against any particular scenario" for war.

Fox News' Andrew Hard and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


HUH?

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 20 October 2004).]


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