re: the article -- I'm getting tired of the secrets!

Secret UK troops plan for Afghan crisis

BRIAN BRADY
WESTMINSTER EDITOR

DEFENCE chiefs are planning to rush thousands of British troops to Afghanistan in a bid to stop the country sliding towards civil war, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

Ministers have been warned they face a "complete strategic failure" of the effort to rebuild Afghanistan and that 5,500 extra troops will be needed within months if the situation continues to deteriorate.

An explosive cocktail of feuding tribal warlords, insurgents, the remnants of the Taliban, and under-performing Afghan institutions has left the fledgling democracy on the verge of disintegration, according to analysts and senior officers.

The looming crisis in Afghanistan is a serious setback for the US-led 'War on Terror' and its bid to promote western democratic values around the world.

Defence analysts say UK forces are already so over-stretched that any operation to restore order in Afghanistan can only succeed if substantial numbers of troops are redeployed from Iraq, itself in the grip of insurgency.

The UK contribution to the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan presently stands at fewer than 500, compared with the contribution of 8,000 troops to the Coalition presence in Iraq.

Planners at the UK military's Northolt headquarters have drawn up emergency proposals to send up to 5,500 troops to Afghanistan to help avert a descent into more widespread bloodshed.

As well as increasing the British presence in Afghanistan 10-fold, it would require additional funding of almost �500m.

MoD sources confirmed last night that the secret plans have been firmed up in response to persistent concerns that the notorious rebel commander Gulbadeen Hikmatyar has teamed up with Taliban fighters in the south.

An MoD source told Scotland on Sunday: "We are going into an area where there's a civil war going on. It's dangerous and it's somewhere new.

"People within the MoD are now saying we will have to deal with this and go into the south of the country. What they are saying is, don't do it piecemeal. We will have to do it properly."

Senior army and navy officers, along with officials from the Treasury, were in the region last week to survey the options.

But American military experts last night claimed an increase in the British presence in Afghanistan would inevitably threaten the numbers committed to Iraq.

Charles Heyman, a senior analyst with the defence information group Jane's, told Scotland on Sunday: "There's no doubt whatsoever that Afghanistan is caught in a very difficult position, where it is very hard to progress without committing more forces.

"There is not enough Coalition power, or Afghan government power, to extend their writ into the areas that have proved impossible to control. This is going to be a very difficult period.

"They might struggle to cover their commitment to Iraq, but even if they do that, it would mean that the UK could not take on any further military commitments anywhere else."

Afghanistan was liberated from the oppressive grip of the Taliban following the al-Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington. American-led forces launched a ferocious assault on the regime, which was accused of harbouring Osama bin Laden and his closest allies. But they have been fighting a largely forgotten war with Afghan rebels, foreign insurgents and tribal warlords ever since.

The treacherous situation was underlined yesterday when a bomb exploded near a US military patrol in Zabul province, southern Afghanistan, killing one soldier and wounding three others.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai is due in Washington this week to discuss the deteriorating situation.

He is also expected to raise concerns about fresh claims that his countrymen had been abused by their US captors in Iraqi jails, allegations that provoked sustained protests around the country.

But a newspaper last night claimed that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had said in a memo that a poppy eradication program aimed at Afghanistan's heroin trade was ineffective partly because of President Hamid Karzai's leadership.

This article:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=559872005

They did raise the subject of serious issue of narcotics trafficking with the huge poppy cultivation.

Karsai's comments were complimentary and hopeful about the elections of governing officials which many women are candidates.

I doubt your going to hear admissions of the realities in Afghanistan at a press conference such as the one you listened to.

The disasterous situation there has been reported upon for some time by human rights watch groups and other sources from within Afghanistan.
Women citizens and children are in horrible, terrible straights as a result of the post War vacuum, Warlords, lack of US support, ect, ect.

It doesn't take much looking to find references to all the above listed in the article here out of Scotland.

It's all easily verifiable (not 'left wing' sources, no need for them)..but one does have to look a little past the political 'face' presented is all.
IMO it's particualrly cruel for political propaganda to highlight female 'politicians', when the masses of women living there are suffering so.

This is very sad indeed for the people of Afghanistan, and of course raises questions as to the fate of Iraquis, as promises made by the US during and after the invasion were not kept (money, ect).

Mo

------------------------

When first elected, he issued a statement about how his party was better than the Taliban because when they (his party) executes someone, the body is only left outside for 24 hours, not 3 days.

Politicians (of any country) will say what they think people want to hear.

Karzai is from the royal family of Afganistan and has had hardly any contact with average people throughout his life.

In the 1990's Karzai was a supporter of the Taliban.

In 2001 Karzai named Uzbek warlord Abdul Rashid Dostum--as deputy defense minister.

maybe because whenever anything comes along that doesn't support your beliefs, you blind yourself with rage and don't see the information there. And/or you're getting your news from too limited a base.

That's in stark contrast to many others who live there or are in the region --

then again, it's the same rosy glow the same shrinking groups cast arbitrarily on Iraq. Completely false. Not based in reality.

At this point if anyone dosn't see it, it's clearly because they don't want to..

Mo

However you should understand that because you say your friends say their friends and family say everything is fine, no major problems in the country - that doesn't really hold allot of weight in light of all the documented reports out of Afghanistan. (Also in light of your constant position on all these matters...)

Afghanistan has been in crisis for years (since their election, de'ja vou) and it's only getting worse..sadly it's not my opinion, it's quite real.

Also unfortunately, the state of Afghanistan and Iraq has nothing to do with 'liking Bush' or not. I think people really need to break away from political pride issues now. It does a great diservice to humanity at this point.

The topic post is just one of scores of reports on Afghanistan. Are all the reports making it up?
For what purpose? Human Rights groups are part of a huge conspiracy against Bush?

..again, tons of information is public domain, aid groups, govt. info.. if you don't refuse to look at it, that is..

I'm sure for some it's easier to just assume everything's going OK, for some it's a pride issue I cannot understand when so many of ours and theirs are dying and suffering in the countries we are 'liberating' - but either way things have gotten way too out of hand to ignore.

..the concern of course is not only for them, but the effects of US occupation and supposed rehabilitation on Iraq.
We heard much of the same regarding our
'freedom and peace' mossion, and it's not turned out at all.

In case you're interested..here's just one report..seems I always have to do the homework Do I at least get lunch money?

But - surely if you query you will find much more..non-Partisan information.
It doesn't seem you are interested in what's going on other than ideas that support your political stance..
but..hey, it's out there.

Opium industry, women under siege, society controlled by WarLords, the money and help promised didn't come through, huge refugee problem, and catostriphic crisis among the children. It's bad.

Human Rights Watch --- year of 2004, reports for 2005 predict worsening crisis if something major doesn't happen to intervine.

Afghanistan

President of the Transitional Administration: Hamid Karzai
Death penalty: retentionist
UN Women's Convention: ratified
Optional Protocol to UN Women's Convention: not signed

A deteriorating security situation undermined human rights. Serious human rights abuses and armed conflict continued in many areas. The criminal justice system remained ineffective and was a source of violations rather than a mechanism for providing justice. Women and girls in particular faced discrimination in the justice system. Police lacked pay, training and control structures. Prison conditions were poor. Detainees were held for excessive periods before appearing before a judge. Women and girls faced a high level of violence. Rape and sexual violence by armed groups was reportedly common. Violence in the family, and forced and underage marriage, were widespread. Past human rights abuses were not addressed and the international community did not provide the necessary support to ensure progress in this area. The US-led coalition was responsible for arbitrary detentions as the "war on terror" continued. Refugees continued to return from neighbouring states but in much reduced numbers, owing largely to concerns about the security situation, employment opportunities and housing. There were serious concerns about the voluntariness of returns from Iran and Pakistan.

Background

The security situation continued to deteriorate throughout the country and was particularly serious in the north, south and southeast. The central government - the Afghan Transitional Authority (ATA) - had virtually no control outside Kabul. Local armed groups and regional commanders, some of whom continued to receive US support, consolidated their regional power bases and acted with impunity in these areas. Several pilot projects on disarmament, demobilization and reintegration began in October but had made little progress by the end of the year.

Various armed factions engaged in sporadic fighting throughout the country. Armed groups in some regions perpetrated serious human rights abuses in areas they controlled: reported abuses included abductions and kidnapping; arbitrary detention in private prisons; confiscation of land and property; rape; abduction of women, girls and boys; and forced conscription of boys and men.

In October the UN Security Council authorized the expansion of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) outside Kabul after repeated calls by the ATA, the UN Secretary-General and international and national non-governmental organizations. However, NATO, which took over the ISAF command in August, had trouble securing commitments for the extra troops required. A delegation of Security Council ambassadors visited Afghanistan in November. The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA), established in March 2002, continued to have mixed results in its efforts to support the implementation of the December 2001 Bonn Agreement and was criticized for its failure to fully integrate human rights into its activities. The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), formed in June 2002, made considerable progress, although its work was sometimes obstructed by government officials.

There was no significant improvement in the economy or infrastructure of the country. Child labour continued to be unchecked and widespread. Drug production increased, orchestrated and controlled by regional commanders and armed groups, and led to a further rise in organized crime and related human rights abuses.

Constitution building

The Constitutional Loya Jirga, which met to decide on a new Constitution, was delayed until December. The delay threatened the electoral process, which was due to be completed by June 2004. There were concerns that the draft constitution was not consistent with international standards. There were reports of intimidation and threats during the selection of delegates for the Constitutional Loya Jirga.

Ineffective administration of justice

The criminal justice system remained ineffective. Wealth and connections to those with power gave individuals impunity, whereas those without such access faced arbitrary justice. The international community's promised program of judicial assistance lacked strategic direction and its start was delayed.

Police failed to protect human rights and often committed violations themselves. Lack of pay, training, proper command and control structures and effective oversight mechanisms contributed to a situation in which violations continued to be perpetrated with impunity. Detainees were held for prolonged periods, sometimes for over a year, before being brought before a judge. Torture and arbitrary detention were commonly used by police to extract confessions or money.

Where courts had been established, they were fragile and lacked the basic facilities such as premises, furniture and necessary legal texts. Violations of fair trial procedures were routine - access to defence counsel was virtually non-existent, there was no presumption of innocence, and convictions based on little or no evidence were common. Many judges lacked proper training or professional skills and the justice system remained highly politicized. Judges and independent prosecutors could not function impartially in many areas because of local politics or threats by armed groups. In many rural areas, jirgas or shuras (informal justice mechanisms) were used to resolve most disputes, including crimes such as murder. Women's rights were particularly violated in both the formal and informal justice system.

AI welcomed the transfer of responsibility for the administration of prisons from the Interior Ministry to the Justice Ministry. However, prison conditions remained poor across the country. In some places private houses were used to hold detainees. Detainees and convicted prisoners were held together, and in many areas there were no separate facilities for juveniles and women, placing them at greater risk of sexual and other abuse. Prison staff received little or no training and went for months without pay.

Limited women's legal and social rights

A major step forward for women's legal rights was achieved in March when the Afghan authorities ratified the UN Women's Convention without reservations. However, inequality between men and women remained enshrined in national laws, particularly those relating to marriage and divorce. In certain regions of Afghanistan, women accused of adultery were routinely detained, as were those who attempted to marry a spouse of their choice.

Women's access to healthcare, education and economic resources, particularly in rural areas, remained extremely limited, exacerbated by cultural restrictions on women's movement and interaction with men outside their family.

Violence against women

Women and girls continued to face a high level of violence. Rape and sexual violence by members of armed factions and former combatants were reportedly common. Forced marriage, particularly of girls, domestic violence and other crimes of violence against women remained widespread and had the active support or passive complicity of state agents, armed groups, families and communities.

In some parts of the country tradition continued to be used to legitimize violent deaths of women. Women and girls alleged to have eloped or committed adultery were reportedly killed by the family. Adultery, "running away from home" and unlawful sexual activity (sexual intercourse by unmarried men and women) - known as zina crimes - remained subject to criminal prosecution. Some women accused of zina were at risk of being killed by their families if released. Women victims of rape remained at risk of prosecution for zina if they could not prove the act was against their will, and had little hope of seeing justice done. Divorce on grounds of physical violence was virtually impossible for women to obtain, even with evidence of severe domestic violence.

In many rural communities, women and girls continued to be exchanged as a mechanism for addressing community disputes or criminal issues including murder or elopement. Women and girls exchanged in this way are married to a man or boy from the victim's family.

The criminal justice system remained too weak to offer effective protection of women's rights to life and physical security, and itself subjected them to discrimination and abuse. Prosecutions for violence against women, and protection for women at acute risk of violence, were virtually absent. The few women who overcame powerful barriers to seek redress rarely had their complaints considered or their rights defended. No safeguards were in place to protect women from sexual abuse while in police custody and detention. There were unconfirmed reports of sexual abuse of women prisoners in official detention centres in Herat, Mazar-e-Sharif and Kabul.

Harassment of journalists

Many independent newspapers, periodicals and radio stations were operating, although journalists regularly received threats for criticizing the authorities.

Two journalists, Sayed Mirhassan Mahdavi, editor of Aftab newspaper, and Ali Payam Sistani, the newspaper's designer, were arrested on 17 June and accused of "insulting Islam" for publishing an article criticizing the involvement of religion in politics. They were released after just over a week, but President Karzai stated that both men would be tried. After their release the men went to live in exile.

Impunity for past human rights violations

Despite the ratification in February by the Afghan authorities of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, little action was taken to bring to justice perpetrators of serious abuses in the past. Many of those holding central and regional government posts were allegedly responsible for human rights and humanitarian law violations committed during 23 years of armed conflict. Many also allegedly had connections with armed groups responsible for ongoing violations.

The international community proved unwilling to take concrete steps to ensure accountability for past human rights violations and UNAMA shied away from the issue. In February the UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial executions proposed the establishment of an international commission of inquiry into abuses in Afghanistan since 1978, a proposal supported by the AIHRC. However, the proposal was opposed by a majority of governments and the UN Commission on Human Rights then failed to endorse the proposal. Despite this setback, the AIHRC continued to try to map past abuses, and requested training and technical expertise specifically on investigation and monitoring to undertake this work.

Abuses by US-led military forces

US-led forces, which continued military operations in various parts of the country, made arbitrary detentions. Men and boys were arrested, detained and transferred without charge and without any formal legal process through which they could challenge the legality of their detention. There were reports of ill-treatment in US detention facilities in Afghanistan. Findings from internal military investigations into two deaths in custody in December 2002 allegedly caused by ill-treatment were not published.

Bombings by US-led forces reportedly caused civilian casualties. In April AI called for an immediate investigation into the deaths of four men and seven women who were killed when a bomb hit their house on the outskirts of Shkin, Paktika province. In December, a total of 15 children were killed in two separate bombings by US forces.

Refugees and internally displaced people

Refugees continued to return to Afghanistan from neighbouring states but in greatly reduced numbers, largely because of the security situation and lack of access to employment and adequate housing. There were serious concerns about the voluntariness of returns from Iran and Pakistan because of official strategies of deportation and police harassment respectively. On 28 April 2003 the United Kingdom (UK) deported 21 rejected asylum-seekers to Kabul. This was followed by a second chartered flight on 20 May carrying 34 asylum-seekers from the UK and four from France. There were concerns about the sustainability of these and other returns to Afghanistan.

AI country visits

In July, AI's Secretary General visited Afghanistan and met President Karzai and other senior government officials, UNAMA officials, representatives of nongovernmental organizations, and human rights defenders. The delegation also visited a women's prison in Kabul. Other AI delegates visited the country throughout the year, working alongside an AI field presence that ended in August. In December, AI delegates attended the Constitutional Loya Jirga.

Afghanistan: Police reconstruction essential for the protection of human rights (AI Index: ASA 11/003/2003)

Afghanistan: Out of sight, out of mind - the fate of the Afghan returnees (AI Index: ASA 11/014/2003)

Afghanistan: Crumbling prison system desperately in need of repair (AI Index: ASA 11/017/2003)

Afghanistan: Re-establishing the rule of law (AI Index: ASA 11/021/2003)

Afghanistan: "No one listens to us and no one treats us as human beings" - Justice denied to women (AI Index: ASA 11/023/2003)
********

1. Your sources

2. That you obsessively care so much about it.

..besides, as I said, there are numerous reports from officials and human rights groups and interests, defence and military analysts, UK and UN sources,ect, ect as well as the citizens. (those in the bad areas brave enough to talk)

Hey - I know they aren't Geraldo, but the sources reporting on Afghanistan surely deserve a little more credit.

I'm not sure it should be deemed obsessive to care about what is happening to the people, the women and children.. of Iraq and Afghanistan, especially when our government is orchestrating military action/occupation resulting in their immense suffering and our own men and women die every day.

Not to mention the money spent and the fact that the public is being lied to about the state of affairs in the region throughout, and exploited the stories of elections and 95 year old women going for the vote in a wagon..
meanwhile.........(!!)

Oh, yes...then there's that little thing called Terrorism..
you know, rougue groups af Muslim extremists that first began developing out of similar circumstances when we pulled out of Afghanistan before.. (the vacuum created after we funded the Taliban to fight Russia in the hills, then we pulled everything, and the money.. out in the 80's, remember?)

Terror...the reasons (they say) we are at War.
So many reason's du'jour..but I think that is still one of them.

Our govt's exploitation of the military and manipulations have not only killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of innocents including our own, but has created a breeding ground for groups like Al Quaeda. (which is why the UK is poised to respond if you read the above article)..

Those are just some of the reason's I'm concerned.

I tend to think it's rather odd
not to care.

But, to each his own.

Mo

LOLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Set, game, match. If that statement isn't the ultimate proof that you're confused and so far left that conservative Democrats look like right wingers, I don't know what else could prove the point better.

Nice effort. I swear I'll be laughing to myself about this one all morning. Oh my!

You get an A for effort, but ya can't go around discrediting every source that disagrees with your personal opinion without seeming a tad closed minded.
Not to mention totally ignoring the 'meat' of the thread.

But that's nothing new.

I urge you to read, read..expand your cranium! Look beyond Fox, because they're about the only ones not reporting even the slightest on the realities in Iraq and Afganistan at this point.

You express consistantly that every piece of information that is not in line with your personal opinion is false or 'left'.

Everyone around the World might as well stop reporting, and just ask you

Interesting perspective on the human rights watch group.. I hope anyone interested in the topic will learn for themselves.

No matter how many times you asert your opinion doesn't make it true.

Mo

For anyone else then:

Aghanistan: We'd Like the Taliban Back, Please

Washington Post
May 18, 2005

A wave of crime in [Kandahar] ... has evoked a growing local nostalgia for the Taliban era of 1996 to 2001, when the extremist Islamic militia imposed law and order by draconian means.

Residents reached their boiling point last week, after a second kidnapped boy was killed. Hundreds of men poured into the streets, demanding that President Hamid Karzai fire the provincial governor and police chief. Some threw rocks at military vehicles and chanted, "Down with the warlords!" Witnesses recalled some adding, "Bring back the Taliban!"

Both provincial officials are former militia leaders -- commonly called warlords in Afghanistan -- whose fighters reportedly preyed on residents before they were driven out by the Taliban. They regained power, like a number of other current officials, by joining the U.S.-led military forces that defeated the Taliban in late 2001.

...

The Kandaharis' complaints echo those of Afghans across the country. Last Monday, demonstrators in the northern city of Mazar-e Sharif called for the resignation of Gen. Attah Mohammad, the strongman who governs their province, complaining that he had stolen people's land.

Human Rights Watch, a U.S.-based advocacy group, charged last week that numerous former warlords, who hold many provincial governorships and top police jobs, "have been implicated in widespread rape of women and children, murder, illegal detention, forced displacement, human trafficking and forced marriage." There are also allegations that some militia leaders and civilian officials are involved in drug trafficking.

...

There is much about Kandahar that underscores how far it has progressed since the Taliban's ouster. Bazaars are filled with merchandise, from photos to VCRs, that would have been unthinkable during the Taliban era. Picking through the wares are scores of women -- most of them veiled because of tribal custom, but far more numerous than they would have been in the days when the Taliban morals police prowled markets with leather whips.

...

Still, residents say, the outward trappings mask entrenched problems, from lack of jobs to street crime. Many said they personally knew someone whose motorbike, car or other property had been stolen, often at gunpoint. Zahir Jan, 35, a stadium painter, said he longed to find a better job but would be satisfied with the government if it weren't for the kidnappings.

"Imagine how things are, that we are wishing for the Taliban again," he muttered

We held a class on the word, ``progressive'' the other day so time for a new word. Let's try ``evolve''. I'm sure at least one of the pilgrims fell off the mayflower and started bitching because I-95 wasn't finished. It didn't evolve for a couple hundred years! Germany and Japan were virtually destroyed by the end of the war and at that point began evolving into what they are today. They will never stop evolving as long as there are people.

Iraq and Afghanistan will evolve to suit the people that live there. To think it should happen over night is not realistic but makes a good point to argue, it use to be better, they were better off, they had more freedom, there was less crime, there were more jobs, now it's too hot!

If things improve in these countries it'll be because the people make it better. They have the option now and like a kid with his first bicycle, we'll have to help keep them steady till they gets that balance thing down pat. No shortcuts! Bitch and complain all you want, it won't happen any faster, but then your object in any case was to make our president and America look bad right?

The situations in both Afghanistan and Iraq are a direct result of our administrations military actions, withdrawal, failure to deliver promised aide and funding..
creating a vacuum..
and in Iraq .. dessimating an innocent population, installing another puppet government, and inciting Civil War.

Sorry there, Darwin.. your description sounds good, if you don't think about it all very much..

tho - everyone can now hope that gtenerations into the future the people of these two countries can eventually 'evolve'.

In the meantime..

This admin has spawned a current generation of Gihadist extremists (under circumstances not unlike before 911, only worse now as America is hated by these groups like never before) and made life much worse for the people our leaders say we are saving.

Mo