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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Off Topic » What do you think....Is Sex Offender registry uncontitutional?

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Author Topic: What do you think....Is Sex Offender registry uncontitutional?
Softballmom
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I saw the wife of a sex offender on the news pleading her husbands case after the murder of a Sex Offender on the registry.

I myself have viewed our sex offender registry a few times. I know how many are in my local area and know what they look like. Not looking to kill anyone but I like to know.

What do you all think about this?

Add interesting articles if you find any. I mainly found old stuff and board chats.

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It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell!  -

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Kara Tyson
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My gut feeling is that I am for it.

But let me give you an example of where it can go off target:

I have a male friend who lives in a beach house in Santa Cruz, CA. Every day he goes to the beach and lays out in the sun wearing his swim trunks (not speedo's).

(On this same beach women regularly sunbathe in the nude--which I have personally seen since I used to visit on a regular basis).

One time last year as my friend was walking up the boardwalk, a policeman stopped him and said he had been reported as 'exposing' himself.

My friend was, of course, shocked! The policeman took a statement from him and my friend went home.

He called me right away and literally you could hear the shaking in his voice.

About 7 days later he received a warrant for his arrest IN THE MAIL! Because of the seriousness of the charges my friend had to hire an attorney with a $25,000 non refundable retainer fee.

It turned out that he had been reported by a woman in her 20's who the week before had demanded that the lifeguard arrest a woman whose infant was nude (which we found out by hiring a private investigator).

My friend was fortunate enough to have 3 witnesses come forward to say that this woman was literally contorting her body in order to photograph up his shorts with her cell phone. Her friend with her ended up admitting to this in a statement with a private investigator.

Hard to believe, it turns out that the law says that it doesnt matter if exposure is intentional on the male's part. Intention only applies to females.

I was actually a character witness in this case and had numerous discussions with the attorney.

My friends lawyer was going to argue in court a civil rights issue that men are treated inequally under the law.

The attorney gave us this example: If a man is walking around nude in his home and a woman walks by on the sidewalk, the man can be charged with exposure. However, if a woman is walking around nude in her home and a man walks by on the sidewalk, he can be charged as a 'peeping tom'.

My friend ended up paying an attorney $30,000 plus expenses for a private investigator, copying fees, ect. ect.

After nearly 8 months of torture the day before the trial, the case was dropped by the DA. However, my friend still has a police record as a possible sex offender. He has to take this case to court again under a civil lawsuit--but must prove the police intentionally targeted him.

In fact, if he had lost the case he would have been a registered sex offender because a women knowingly and willingly looked up his shorts. He would have listed right along child molesters.

I think the woman ought to be arrested for filing a false police report. Like most women, I have viewed men many many times without them knowing it--it happens. I didnt run to the police like a ninny demanding that they be arrested for 'exposing' to me. That is not molestation. That is a cheap trip by a woman with mental problems (or in the case of Santa Cruz--some bent out of shape fascist feminist).

Flyers would have been send out in the n'hood with his name and photo and address--just listing him as a sex offender...who would ever believe it was for just sunbathing!!?? No one.

[ 08. October 2005, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: Kara Tyson ]

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Kara Tyson
Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter

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lymie tony z
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Hey now lucy...you got some splainin to do.....

I would'nt expect you to know this but EVERY GUY out there knows this ploy...

EVERY GUY also knows that if one does'nt want his "package" viewed he has to wrap it up in underwear or a jockstrap....

I suspect your friend is pulling your leg cuz he got caught.....
I know of no beaches in Calif where they sunbathe nude...they're fictional...yes even Blacks Beach.....
Only place you could possibly get away with it is Imperial Beach... private beach property.....

Anyway....these sex offender guys have no legal rights...they gave them up when they chose to give into their desires regardless of who they hurt....mental illness or not. They are never ever rehabilitated.
They at least should have ankle monitors forever......at most be in jail for the rest of their lives...and if they commit terrible murders they should be fried in the same manner in which they killed their victims instead of euthanised...zman [cussing]

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I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman

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ponytail
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Hmmm - my what a topic we have here!

To me, this isn't a black and white situation and having worked in the Tx prison system over 17 years and the last 10 w/ the parole division and the programs and services division (provides sex offender treatment), I can say that at least in our state there are some issues w/ registration.

Regardless, I do feel there should be registration and notification.

While it is unfortunate that some offenders are convicted of crimes that they perhaps should not have been, there are far more offenders who plea down severe crimes and sexually oriented crimes that should have been convicted of far worse.

The cases of consensual relationship between 16 year old female and same age or older male (or very rarely vice versa) that parents don't approve of often carry a "sexual assault of a child" title. Those guys are lumped in w/ the pervs who stalk and abuse defenseless children. This is very unfortunate but, the numbers of these are very few.

However, the numbers of offenders convicted of say "Burglary of a Habitation" or "Assault" which consisted of an attempted sexual attack or completed sexual attack yet, plead to the lesser titled offense are far greater. By title, these guys don't illicit the same "concern" or fear; however, they are perhaps more dangerous because they don't! I always termed them - "undercover" sex offenders!

In these cases, the system is supposed to tag them for registration yet, they can be missed if the correct penal code wasn't applied or, if during intake the interviewer missed it in the offense description. Believe me, it's not like they are gonna raise their hand and tell you - hey, I didn't steal anything - I just had a little unconsensual sex!

As for rehabilitation, there are cases where it is possible. The treatment program is structured much like the Therapeutic communities used w/ substance abuse using a system of accountability and support.

As w/ substance abusers, those offenders who are "ready" to be treated very often succeed and don't reoffend. However, forced treatment strictly based on the offense isn't always successful. However, we continue w/ the concept of "treatment surely can't hurt" and if we're lucky, we'll get through to someone!

Each case is individual yet, there isn't a way to "register" based on individual case.

If you talk to 90% of convicted felons - they didn't do it or were "framed" - across the board! Yet - the actuality is about reverse! Yep, there are folks convicted of crimes they didn't commit and yep, there are folks convicted by title of crimes worse than what they did commit.

Why just register sex offenders? Why not everybody? Personally, I'd like to know if my neighbor breaks into houses or sells crack!

Basically, all you can do is hope for the best and try to secure yourself and your property and remain observant of your surrounding wherever you are!

Even w/ registration, the sex offender isn't wearing a glowing tag that says - "Hey, I rape women in mall parking lots or, UMMMM your kiddo looks yummy to me - can I have her". Not a funny topic at all but, basically, you don't know everything about anyone EVER.

So as Mr. Spock once said on Star Trek - "the needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few".

Unless of course . . . you are one of the few!

Sorry I ramble, my mind just doesn't put stuff together right anymore. I think I probably didn't say this the way I should have. If I untangle it better - I will edit!!

Figure - I got close though!!

While not foolproof or the BEST system - registration is important.

Sherry

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Kara Tyson
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I think that with children...the registry is important.

If other offenses are included, a brief discription of the offense should be there also.

Instead of rape..consensual sex with a minor in those cases in which it applies.

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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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However, I do think that it should be ackhowledged that women do lie about these things (and so do men)--and many people are accused of child abuse because of a bitter divorce.

For those convicted of multiple child sex crimes, I think mandatory chemical castration is appropriate. Also, a lifetime sentence to a mental institutution.

I dont believe in any outpatient 'treatment' per se--I think it is a waste of money. And I dont think the American taxpayer should have to pay for rehab (for anyone or for any condition).

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Kara Tyson
Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter

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Softballmom
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In our local area we don't have any peeping toms listed. I am sure that some of the "indecent liberties with a minor" were sometimes consentual. However I have a problem with some of those too.

Say a 19 year old has a 16 year old girlfriend. I don't have much of a problem with that.

However a 19 year old with a 13 year old I have a problem with.

The adult in the cituation has to know where to draw the line. He knows it is a crime.

Our youth are very impresionable and naieve.

Look at it like this. A pediphile works his vitems until they are very comfortable and like them and are vulnerable to them. They could probably argue that sexual encounters with a 10 year old were concentual. Bull crap.

Reguardless of consentual or not these are our childrens and no matter what the cituation the adult is preying upon the minors vulnerabilities.

If my 14 year old were in love with a 20 year old his tail is still going to jail. The question is what did that twenty year old see in my child before the relationship started. What was appaeling to that grown man about a very young lady? Maybe she looked older but her mind and actions are still that of a child.

I agree that these people used up their rights when they chose to prey on our children. Maybe they could rethink some charges they place on there, like peeping toms and stuff.

I have no tolerance for pond scum and have no belief that a child preditor can be rehabilitated. Therefore it is in the publics best interest to keep track of them and enable citizens to know they are liveing in their neighborhoods.

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lymeloco
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I know in some states second and third sex offenders have gps bracelets, and they have cell phones that can only take in-coming calls from police telling them that they're out of their boundaries.

They have caught a few that were in areas they were'nt supposed to be. One was headed to an amusement park, another near school grounds.

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24bit
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I also think there needs to be a mandatory tatoo on their forehead indicating that they're a sicko perv. [Smile]
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Softballmom
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I wish they were not even released back into society.

Also did you know that the ones that choose their own children as victems get a lesser penalty than if they were strangers to them.

So it is not as bad if they breed their own victems that look to them for safety, love and assurance! Bunch of crap. Lock em all up and throw away the the key.

They screw the children up and some grow up to be pervs. We are just letting em keep up the sycle!

I think crimes against children should be looked at as the worst kind of crimes. Quit treating their abusers as victems of illness or what not. The more we keep off the streets the less we will have in the future!

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Kara Tyson
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Many offenders were at one time a victim. We do have to ask, where was law enforcement when these now offenders were being victimized as children?

I do believe that many of these men (mainly men) were made this way from their own abuse.

HOWEVER, it has to stop somewhere.

If a 'mad' dog bites people it must be put down. The dog was probably not born mean--something/someone made it that way. It isnt the dog's fault--but to protect society the dog has to be dealt with harshly.

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Kara Tyson
Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter

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lymie tony z
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Yes...Spoc...the good of the many do outweigh the good of the few...

Beam me up scottie...oops he's dead now too...crap....zman [Big Grin]

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I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman

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snowboarder
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Registary is good however...people get very upset when one is living in close proximity of there home.

Two years ago my husband was president of the HOA and it was reported to him that a sex offender was in our neighborhood and a bus stop was located right out his door.

The school immediately relocated the bus stop then a few weeks later this mans house was spray painted with profound language.

He moved about 15 minutes away and I saw on the news his house was burned down.

He also had a Winnie The Pooh tatooed on his arm...lovely.

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Softballmom
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What is sad is the people that break the law in the name of good.

Someone that would spray paint their house or burn it down are showing that they have their own criminal issues.

What good did they do anyone by doing that? Their are so many ways they could have benifited their community rather than doing something like that.

We have to seperate ourselves from the criminals, not join them!

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Kara Tyson
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In some states you have to put a sign on the door/ in the yard that children cannot be on the property.

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Kara Tyson
Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter

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Softballmom
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Missing Child resources
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/resources.cfm

Deadly Loopholes for Sex Offenders
http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=356

Get Involved
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=245
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This is a long but interesting article

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Data missing on missing children: despite intensive media coverage, authorities insist that no child-abduction epidemic exists. Yet statistics prove unreliable. So just how safe are America's kids? - Nation: child abduction

By now the stories are all too familiar. A child is missing: vanished from the family's back yard, snatched from the bus stop or stolen from his or her own bedroom. The pictures on the evening news have become a ghostly reminder of childhood lost. These stories are heartbreaking for everyone; parents' grief is all but unbearable.

Meanwhile, across the nation, parents fear their child could be next. Justice Department research indicates the risk of abduction by a stranger is relatively low for preschoolers, but increases through elementary school and peaks at age 15. Teen-age girls are considered most vulnerable.

Frightened parents wonder how the society in which they are raising families got this way. Some blame the media for reporting these cases. The FBI charged that reporters were distorting the facts with fear-driven stories about monsters preying on children.

For the media, it started out innocently enough. With no juicy summer sex scandal such as the Chandra Levy or Gary Condit cases to sell papers or build ratings, reporters slowly dissected the tragic kidnapping and murder of Danielle van Dam in San Diego. That story consumed the national press until 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart was snatched from her bedroom in Utah, seizing the attention of the electronic media and making still more headlines. That case seemed to strike fear into the heart of every parent of a beautiful child.

The coverage of child-snatching became even more intense when 5-year-old Samantha Runnion was dragged from her driveway. Samantha's body was discovered after the perpetrator had raped her and discarded her remains a short distance from her home. By now the fear had become a runaway train as new cases were reported in headlines from Philadelphia to Milwaukee.

Writing for Time magazine, Walter Kern put it bluntly: "One wonders if the abduction reports are a runaway habit whose internal momentum can get the best of reporters and editors, flattening everything else that lies before it: stories of war and preparations for war, of corruption among the elites, of floods and droughts. What, no kidnapped kids this morning? Well, find some!"

Many welcome the coverage. Curtis S. Lavarello, executive director for the National Association of School Resource Officers, says: "For critics who claim that copycats may arise as a result of media coverage, I would counter that in all reality, for every case of a possible copycat case, there are most likely hundreds, if not thousands, of parents doing a better job of supervising their children."

The FBI, in fact, insists that child abductions by strangers actually have declined. In the 1980s the number of such child abductions averaged annually about 200 to 300, according to the FBI. In 2000, the number of cases dropped to 93 compared with 134 in 1999 and 115 in 1998, when the FBI first began tracking these statistics.

But that may not be an accurate assessment. Neal Rawls, a security consultant in Palm Beach, Fla., and author of Be Alert, Be Aware, Have a Plan: The Complete Guide to Protecting Yourself Your Home, Your Family, calls the FBI statistics misleading. "OSHA reports workplace accidents better than the government tracks missing kids," he says.

Rawls contends no one can say for certain if there has been an increase or decrease in the number of missing-kids cases because everyone defines kidnapping differently. "Is luring someone into a house, and then releasing them, considered kidnapping?" he wonders. If so, consider this: One out of seven people who are sexually assaulted is a child younger than age 6, and 67 percent of sexual-assault victims are children. That, he says, indicates a problem bigger than the FBI admits.

According to Rawls, if a child is lured by a stranger and then sexually assaulted and released, the FBI downplays the crime by boasting that most of these missing kids are returned. "The FBI makes it sound insignificant if a child is not killed," he says. "The fact that these kids are returned does not mean that we don't have a monumental problem. The huge problem of sexual predators attacking children is getting swept under the rug."

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) also has tried to calm the waters by advising that most of the 725,000 children reported missing in 2001 were returned. Of that number, the NCMEC claims, 3,000 to 5,000 were nonfamily abductions or stranger-kidnapping cases with most being returned. NCMEC statistics don't match the FBI's compilation. About 6 percent of abductions by strangers result in murder.

Most of the general statistics on child-snatching are extrapolated from a 1990 Department of Justice study called National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway and Thrownaway Children. The study claimed 354,100 abductions per year are committed by family members in custody disputes. The same study says about 114,600 stranger-abductions are attempted per year, of which about 3,200 to 4,600 are successful. (The FBI doesn't track or bother to inform parents how many child-snatching attempts were reported.) The Department of Justice study says about 200 to 300 kidnappings per year involve children taken overnight, transported to another location and killed.

How accurate these statistics are is unknown. David Finkelhor, a sociology professor who heads the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Center, recently told CNN that "for a crime that gets as much public attention as it does, it's pretty appalling that there are not better statistics."

A follow-up study was published in June 2000 in the Justice Department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Juvenile Justice Bulletin. That report says 24 percent of all kidnapping cases are "stranger-kidnapping" compared with 49 percent family kidnapping and 27 percent acquaintance kidnapping. However, it based its findings on reviewing 1,214 cases from 1997 in the National Incident-Based Reporting System. Written in part by Finkelhor, this report contradicts the 1990 study, stating "it is impossible to project a reliable national estimate of kidnapping incidents ... because there has been an absence of reliable statistics about the crime." In fact, the FBI does not even include the crime in its Uniform Crime Reporting System.

So how many children are missing, from where and what are their names? No one knows for sure. Dave Thelen, chief executive officer for the nonprofit Committee for Missing Children Inc., has been trying to get reliable statistics for years and would like to see NCMEC back up its numbers with a complete database of names and case histories. So far, no member of Congress has bothered to ask for an accounting of every missing child in the nation. As a result, there has been no national compilation of such rudimentary information as name, age, date missing and status of the case. Experts in the field explain that each jurisdiction defines crimes of kidnapping differently.

Regardless of such problems, both NCMEC President Ernie Allen and the FBI insist that there are enough empirical data to indicate that child-snatching has declined, particularly abductions by strangers. Frank Furedi, author of Paranoid Parenting, insists the FBI statistics indicate the United States is not "experiencing an epidemic of child abduction."

But the White House is not so convinced. "It seems that President George W. Bush regards the threat of child abduction as akin to that of terrorism," observes Furedi. "Recently, he informed the people of America that they were not only under threat from terrorists, they also faced a wave of horrible violence from twisted elements in our own communities." Indeed President Bush has been joined by Attorney General John Ashcroft and Secretary of Education Rod Paige in announcing a White House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children to be convened in September. He also has announced release of a new guidebook, Personal Safety for Children: A Guide for Parents.

Meanwhile, Furedi insists, "The cumulative effect of the ceaseless exploitation of the issue of child-snatching by the U.S. media is to poison the relationship between adults and children. As far as American culture goes, adults and children need to be kept apart." For example, he says, at a playground in San Francisco unaccompanied adults are denied entrance by a security guard. "I was also informed that unaccompanied adults could not loiter outside the park," Furedi says. "The age-old idea that adults derive a simple harmless pleasure from just watching children play has given way to the conviction that such instincts are likely to be those of a predator."

But child-advocacy groups welcome the White House conference. Noting that about 85 to 90 percent of the 876,213 persons reported missing in 2000 were children--a 469 percent increase from the 154,341 reported in 1982, the Klass Kids Foundation points out in its literature that, "if any other segment of our population were so impacted, we would declare an epidemic; the Center for Disease Control would fund a cure; we would pass and enforce legislation and we would increase private and public security. But, since it is only our children, many in our society accept these appalling numbers as status quo."

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It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell!  -

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vitch
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About 15-20 years ago, in my town, a 17 yo boy had consentual sex with his 15 yo girlfriend. The parents found out, pressed statutory rape charges and, as a man he's on the sex offender registry for that conviction.

I believe in the registry but it should be used for predators of children or for violent offenders, certainly not for the case I've mentioned.

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Worthless tests & labs, a dangerous vaccine, insurance companies refuse to pay, undertreatment the norm, all about money. MO.

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heiwalove
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vitch, how is that statutory rape? i admit i don't know all the laws and each state has slightly different ones (i think?), but don't you have to be 18 or over to commit statutory rape?

anyway, i agree that the case you mentioned is ludicrous. i also agree the line has to be drawn somewhere. sometimes it's hard to say exactly where.

and yes, i do agree with the registration laws. it's hard, though, because even though they're terrible predators and should definitely go to jail and serve lots of time, i'm conflicted on whether they should be branded for life. i think it's awful when their homes are burned down, etc.

can they be rehabilitated? i don't know. i admit i'd never want a convicted sex offender around my kid. but maybe they can be, and all the stigma saying they can't just makes it sort-of a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know?

and it's also important to look at how society produces so many predatory men. it's not isolated; it's rampant. it's a societal illness, as well as an individual one.

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lymeloco
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Winfrey Offers $100K Reward For Sex Offenders
Chris Noon, 10.13.05, 11:20 AM ET

Oprah Winfrey















Whether or not you see vigilantism as a morally sanctimonious means of meting out justice, the protestations of society's cavilers seem like pseudo-intellectual claptrap when the practice puts a convicted pedophile behind bars. And our new vigilante superheroes are rarely clad in spandex, cape and cowl: Billionaire chat show host Oprah Winfrey has just awarded two women $50,000 each for helping police find a fugitive sex offender.

The viewers recognized William Carl Davis, accused of child molestation and failing to register as a sex offender after previous child molestation convictions, from an appeal on "The Oprah Winfrey Show". One of the women realized Davis was living above the other's apartment, and they informed FBI agents of his whereabouts.

"This is why I say you were so courageous, because you know what courage is. It's being scared but doing it anyway," the doyenne of daytime television told the whistleblowers on Tuesday's edition of her program. Winfrey, who has told viewers that she was sexually abused as a child, will target one purported pedophile on her show each week--with a $100,000 reward attached.

This week also saw the advent of cyber-vigilantism: Yahoo! (nasdaq: YHOO - news - people ) said Wednesday it would bar chat rooms that promoted sex between minors and adults and restrict all chat rooms to users 18 and older. The Internet behemoth said it would bar any chat room whose postings encourage sex acts between adults and minors, and purge such rooms within 24 hours from when it becomes aware of them.

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Softballmom
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quote:
Originally posted by lymeloco:


This week also saw the advent of cyber-vigilantism: Yahoo! (nasdaq: YHOO - news - people ) said Wednesday it would bar chat rooms that promoted sex between minors and adults and restrict all chat rooms to users 18 and older. The Internet behemoth said it would bar any chat room whose postings encourage sex acts between adults and minors, and purge such rooms within 24 hours from when it becomes aware of them.

When did this happen. I have been watching a site that I reported to the Federal cyber unit.

Although they have a warning up to keep things PG13 on the chat itself. It is still full of freaks wanting to chat privately. It is a Teen site.

Although I am sure half of those freaks are adults looking to talk to kids. They have web cams and want to show themselves. I was hoping the site would be taken off all together but it is still there.

What you reported is good news if they actualy really do something about it when you report it.

This one promotes what is said to be for teens talking to teens but they are idiots if they think that is what is happening. I tried to contact a monitor on that site but it was a robot responce. No person there at all.


Some chat rooms don't promote sex period but they don't monitor the sites or don't really care what goes on.

As a parent I would monitor all your kids movement on the net. The webpage could sound totally inocent but be full of perverts.

Kids at school pass websites around to each other and it kills me that they actually frequent these sites.

I monitor my daughter regularly and I have found two sites she should not be going to. Luckily I have not found more than that. But the names sounded inocent. Probably did to the kids that find these places and get sucked in out of curiosity and sheer stupidity!

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It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell!  -

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Kara Tyson
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Some states are introducing legislation that requires a curfew for ex child offenders on Halloween. I think that is perfectly constitutional.

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Kara Tyson
Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter

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lymebrat
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I live in a very small town, in New Hampshire. For the most part things are quite. But when summer rolls around, we have thousands of tourists around to enjoy the lakes and mountains.

last summer a classmate of my then 8 year old son's, was a victim of an attempted abduction. And a week later, a man tried to grab a 6 year old girl from a parking lot.

Yikes!! The community was up in arms. And some folks decided to do a little research. They found out that in our little town, we had 4 sex offenders. 1 live less than 4 miles from my house.

I was shocked!

SO I have to say that yes, I think sex offenders should be registered and I'll even go one step further and say that if someone is convicted of a crime involving a child... I think all citizens should be notified, when this person moves into their town.

How many times have we read or heard about kids who fell victim to the guy next door? Too many if you ask me. And when you check some of these guys backgrounds, you'll see that some of them had past convictions for child sex crimes.

Every time I hear about a child who has gone missing and later found raped and killed, it sickens me.

And when the parents are lucky enough to have the police find their child's murderer, many times the criminal has a past record involving children and many times they live in the neighborhood, but no one ever told them that they had a child sexual predator living amongst them.

So I say yes they should be registered and if one moves into my neighborhood, I want notification!


~LymeBrat

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