posted
If you think it's not, here's proof that you're wrong. I've always felt that the war in Iraq has forced Al Quada to put their money and resources into fighting rather than spending on plotting US attacks....AND....attacks in Kabul. But apparently it's still possible. Could you imagine if we had not engaged them over there.....what could've happened by now here?
The purpose of this post is to show that, even if this threat turns out to not be real, it shows the intent and thought process of carrying out an attack from Iraq.
You can argue whether Al Quada was in Iraq before the invasion or not, but the fact is that they certainly are now, and if we leave it will certainly be their home base. More proof that the radicals are lame and not intelligent.
I am VERY disappointed in the Dept. of Homeland Security for downplaying this threat. Some heads should roll for this IMO. Bush has come out and supported New York City's choice to go on full alert.
For those that say I never criticize the president, well listen up. Bush needs to show a little more leadership and get these folks on the same page. I'll bet he will now, but it's embarrassing to have two enforcement groups disagree on a threat.
Softballmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6235
posted
President Bush backed New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's decision to announce the threat publicly, despite questions by some federal officials about its credibility.
Suppose they didn't take it seriously and we had another atttack, then fault would be thrown at doing nothing or not enouph.
Some folks will claim al-Quada went to Iraq afterwards, but I have always believed they were there in part.
I am sure some of the terrorist cells were born and raised in Iraq. Despite what everyone thinks or says.
-------------------- It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell! Posts: 1331 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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Foreign policy has been abducted by chicken-hawks.
Those (such as Wolfowitz, Cheney, Abrams, Bush, ect) ..who NEVER served, yet say things such as 'Bring it ON' as far as insurgent attacks.
Bring it on --- to our working class, poor, minority soldiers in Iraq...just not on themselves (they were all AWOL or, Bush -- a deserter during wartime) or their kids. Double chicken-hawk.
All the senior players mentioned above and several others.. were working for Reagan and Bush senior..
and wrote back in the early 90's (govenment document) of a govt that would rise out of the Cold War and prepare to make unilateral, pre-emptive attacks -- without allies.. in order to secure RESOURCES. Secure RESOURCES.
and one of the countries they named was Iraq.. and the interest named was oil.
ALL the military bases there and in Afghanistan are strategically placed around oil pipelines and/or military points of interest in controlling the region.
However..the MAIN reason, above oil.. is World intimidation. Like all empires in history.
Remember "Anyone who isn't with us is with the Terrorists" .. that was surely not a neccesary statement.. it was a CHOSEN one. Propaganda. Look past it!
911, God Rest Their SOULS.. the victims, that tragedy.. was used and manipulated into getting the country behind a unilateral invasion of IRAQ. Tho Iraq has nothing to do with it. (documented, 911 commission)
they use fear, manipulate fear, make false connections to those who have what they want..
(Remember? Iraq has WMD's, WMD's...WMD's...mushroom clouds, Axis of Evil, ect, ect.. the tapes from the inception of the War are unreal.. don't you remember? What all of them repeatedly asserted that later was nothing more than smoke?? Documented, 911 commision...it wasn't 'faulty' intelligence, it was manupulated intelligence to get the country behind a War that is waged in actuality to further a pre-existing agenda. Now it's new reason for being there )
In any event -- this has been a DOCUMENTED long time agenda of these guys..that is an important thing to consider, unles you secretly agree with it..meaning CONTROL...World domination..
.. 911 was the catalyst with which they could manipulate the public a bit faster.
Don't buy it. Look beyond the imagery and propaganda and do some research. Even just a little will raise important questions.
America is in deep trouble.. on top of all the harships and military abuse, deficit, killing of innocent Iraquis in unimaginable numbers.. and much more..
the GLOBAL terror threat (that means us, too) has risen considerably.. (documented, look it up or ask.. ) ..Iraq is not where they operate... NEVER was (!).. this is public domain. READ it.. terrorists are there now mainly in insurgency.. and in training camps as a direct result of the occupation (documented!)
The acting govt. can't make it this way unless folks continue to buy into what they say wothout a lick of research, looking outside the 5'Oclock news.. once you do, you'll see. If you don't, you are duped. Think about it. If the stand is so solid... why fear looking past the rhetoric?? Why ignore all other sources?
This is no new tactic by leaders.. btw.
manipulation of fear, and extreme secrecy (as this admin has exemplified more than any we have seen, documented) ..this method has been the mode of operation of all empirical leaderships..including dictatorship. America is acting as an Empire now.
These guys NEED fear...or they'd never last in office. Look up all the above for yourselves.. those who CHOOSE to even read any piece outside their 'box' (which IMO is critical..tho some say they never do..read anything other than their party line interests (how limited!) --
Meantime...
A quote .. all too chillingly familiar:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
..and also look deeply into what happened in Katrina.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Man! Listening to her just makes me tired all over! Makes you appreciate delete and mute buttons. I'll never look at remote controls the same way again!
PS.Having not served herself, she sure gets in the face of others, but I think this is a leftists thing! (WE don't want to serve, we want to lead!)
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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You and others who hold the same opinions give yourself away so many times.
Your excuses are just cop-outs. You "hide" behind bushie/his and their cronies, religion, the military, anything so YOU don't have to be held accountable.
You and others revel/gloat in "leading/controlling" "dominating" the world. That is your whole agenda, even if it means "wiping out" your own people, and probably your own kin.
And then when of course things don't work out as planned, you blame anybody and anything, everything that is except yourself.
Politicans and the sheep here in canada and worldwide are no different. Greedy, greedy, greedy ....
Corinne
Posts: 461 | From Abbotsford, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Labman, I didn't even read her post because after the first couple sentences I realized that I already read it 367 times before. LOL. What a waste of time.
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Well, I read it two and a half times and I think her drift was, well, no it was, well, hmmm, maybe I better read it again!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
mo, you are absolutely right. we'll keep fighting the good fight. truth will win out in the end. our world (this empire we call Amerikkka) is becoming more and more like Orwell's 1984. it's terrifying.
i won't say anything more, because you covered it. read this again, people. from the NUREMBERG TRIALS, post WWII, trying Nazi criminals/murderers:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
posted
The quote from Nuremburg war crime trials fits like a glove.
This is the core tactic of this admin, and has been the ideal of all of Bush's higher staff since long before 911, the tactic remains the same and is adjusted as we go along to fit changing circumstances and continued public opinion manipulation around the Iraq 'War'.
That coupled with coorperate control of 95% of all media outlets.. the public has been herded like sheep.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Wow, you sure are arrogent to call most American's 'sheep' and refer to us as the people that followed Hitler. I think you have it backwards.
We 'sheep' are actually free thinkers that have understood and learned the lessons of WWII regarding the Nazi build up and threat as Al Queda is attempting to do in the style of catastrophic terrorist events with nuclear weapons.
It's you that hasn't learned anything from WWII......that you have to snuff out the cancer before it grows into a bigger and bigger problem. Al Queda has the goal of a worldwide Islamic state similar to what Hitler wanted for his own 'master race'.
So you might want to take back those offensive comments Mo. I doubt that will help convince anyone that you know what you're talking about anyway. LOL.
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Ues, the thread of Al Queda like groups and their fractions is exactly as you state.
The War in Iraq from it's inception and continuing has only increased that threat and strengthened their resolve.
This administration has manipulated the public into believing we are fighting that threat in the Iraq War, when in fact this War is part of a long time agenda.. these boys started writing about it in 93.
There was never any connection, just an opportunity for them to use 911 as a catalyst to take over in Iraq, and now the threat of global Terror by Al Quada and the like is many times greater as a direct result.
Plus, we've lost world support.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mo: Ues, the thread of Al Queda like groups and their fractions is exactly as you state.
The War in Iraq from it's inception and continuing has only increased that threat and strengthened their resolve.
This administration has manipulated the public into believing we are fighting that threat in the Iraq War, when in fact this War is part of a long time agenda.. these boys started writing about it in 93.
There was never any connection, just an opportunity for them to use 911 as a catalyst to take over in Iraq, and now the threat of global Terror by Al Quada and the like is many times greater as a direct result.
Plus, we've lost world support.
Mo
Elections went great Mo. LOL. Intercpeted communications between the insurgents and captured insurgent intelligence clearly shows that insurgent morale is very low. You're throwing out propaganda Mo.
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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Is that why things have only gotten worse? The insurgency paid no mind to the elections, and the Sunni and Kurds do not support the outcome of elections based on hundreds of years of division and based on the Shiite handling of things, and the strong insurgency will never accept American involvement. They went so great that we have ONE unit of Iraqi troops standing up on their own. ONE.
..they went so great that the current Constitution on deck will either:
1. Not be passed -- resulting in continued increased chaos, death, danger for Iraqis the troops..
or
2. It will pass as written now, and based on the content of the document and the DIScontent of the Sunni and Kurds -- will result in continued increased chaos, death, danger for Iraqis and the troops.
So...the propaganda is in the statement that things 'went great'..
everything that is happening in Iraq before and after refutes that statement entirely. That statement denegrates all involved. The government run media prostitution of the elections and the people voting was despicable.
The people came out, and had hope, and that was great..our troops had hope, and that was great.. but the circumstances before and since have been a downward spiral and Iraqis are feeling defeated and desperate.
And, who exactly says the insurgency is weakening?
You honestly think a mere document is going to have them all line up for government cheese as good Democrats now? When they clearly have no interest in doing so -- especially, vehemently not under US occupation and a 'government' they do not take seriously.
Mo
[ 18. October 2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
a blogpost by Noam Chomsky, fellow "radical" and venerated professor at MIT:
Iraq Controversy In Perspective
The whole front-page controversy is, in my opinion, not only diversionary but a real tribute to the success of indoctrination. There is a simple point that seems obvious to Iraqis, but is unmentionable here in the mainstream: the conquest of Iraq, if successful, is a tremendous achievement for US power.
As pretext after pretext for the war has collapsed, commentators have had to scurry to take the next one seriously. The latest, after the collapse of all others, is that the US goal was to establish democracy in Iraq, indeed the whole Middle East. The assumption is taken for granted in news reporting, and accepted even by the harshest critics, who laud the noble vision but think it is beyond our means, etc. Only Iraqis seem to reject it; in recent polls, 1% of people in Baghdad think the US invaded to defend democracy, 5% to help Iraqis, while most of the rest assume that the goal was to take control of Iraq's resources and to reorganize the region for US power interests -- an option that is virtually inexpressible here, though it sounds pretty simple and obvious.
Surely Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc., understand the significance of obtaining the first secure military base in a dependable client state at the heart of the world's main energy reserves, a tremendous lever of world control. By any rational calculation, within their framework, that vastly outweighs the possibility that thousands of Americans might be killed by terror -- a prospect that has clearly been understood since 1993. We know perfectly well from other evidence that their priorities are ranked this way: the invasion of Iraq, for example, was expected to increase the threat of terror, and did. Therefore, it is only natural that they should have downgraded terror in favor of invading Iraq, from the start, and that Wolfowitz and the rest should have hounded the CIA to provide them with some shred of evidence -- WMD, connections with terror, whatever -- to use as a pretext for the real goal. The revelations of Clarke, the memos, etc., tell us virtually nothing that was not clear enough before. The hullabaloo about them derives primarily from our inability to say, even to think, what seems obvious to Iraqis -- for good reason.
Seems to me worth thinking about all of this rather carefully. **
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