These are not the halcyon days of George W. Bush. With his approval rating below 40 percent, his reputation as a decisive leader ravaged by Katrina, his conservative base shattered by Harriet and his closest aide facing indictment, the president is said to be shouting at and blaming subordinates for the lost opportunities of his second term. None of the above problems is insoluble. For if or when the Miers nomination dies, and Bush sends up a Michael Luttig or Edith Jones, his base would rally and he could lead his coalition in a decisive battle over whose judicial philosophy should guide the Supreme Court.
The real crisis the president faces, and we all face, is Iraq. If the war ends in failure, no success will redeem the Bush presidency.
By the time this column appears, the remains of the 2000th U.S. soldier to die in a war that has lasted longer than World War I for the United States will be on the way home. And it is difficult to visualize the end of this war or the victory so often predicted and promised.
Even critics now praise the successes of Bush's father: the liberation of Kuwait, unification of Germany, the deft handling of the collapse of the Soviet Empire and breakup of the Soviet Union. But the son's foreign policy is on the precipice of failure. Only a third of the nation still supports him as a war leader, while more than half believe Iraq was a mistake and we should begin to bring the troops home now.
A preliminary list of winners and losers from our invasion seems to show that it is our enemies who have prospered and our friends who have suffered. As of today, the principal winner of the Iraq war is Iran.
While our invasion of Afghanistan smashed a Taliban regime hostile to Iran, our invasion of Iraq was even more beneficial. It brought down a Baathist regime that had inflicted hundreds of thousands of casualties on Iran in their eight-year war in the 1980s. In power in Baghdad today, in place of Saddam, is a Shia regime that looks to Iran as patron and ally.
In 2001, Iranians had demonstrated in support of the United States after 9-11, and in successive elections, a moderate presidential candidate had carried 70 percent of the vote. The Tehran mullahs were on the ropes.
But with Bush declaring Iran an "axis-of-evil" nation, which was to be denied, even if it meant preventive war, any nuclear program or weapon of mass destruction, Iranians responded as nationalists. A hard-liner won the presidency, and Tehran's defiance is now a popular policy. Meanwhile, the U.S. threat of military strikes to effect the nuclear castration of Iran becomes less and less credible the longer the war next door goes on.
With Iraq smashed and perhaps splintering after we depart, Tehran is set to fill the power vacuum. History may yet record that the U.S. Army did all the heavy lifting in the Persian Gulf to make Iran its pre-eminent power.
A second winner of the Iraq war is Al-Qaida. While the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan dethroned the Taliban enablers of bin Laden, killed countless followers and destroyed his base camp, our invasion of Iraq compensated him for his losses. The Iraq war radicalized the Islamic world, recruited thousands of jihadists and converted Saddam's country -- inhospitable terrain for Islamists -- into the world's training ground for Islamic terrorists.
Among the other beneficiaries of America's Iraq war are the Shia fundamentalists who stand to inherit their first Arab country. Among the losers are the Turks, who must contend with Kurdish nationalism inflamed by Kurdish successes next door, and Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait.
If the Iraqi insurgency evolves, as it appears to be doing, into a civil-religious war, the Sunni and Shia populations of those three autocracies cannot but be affected and those nations perhaps drawn in. And peoples' wars have almost always proven unfortunate for kings and emirs.
How does the balance sheet look for the United States?
Saddam and his neo-Stalinist regime are history, the Iraqi people, especially the Shia and Kurds, are free, a threat to U.S. interests and the region is removed forever.
On the liability side, there is the high cost in dead and wounded, in alienated allies, in a radicalized Middle East, and in the creation in the Sunni Triangle of a base camp and training ground for jihadists that did not exist before the U.S. Army crossed the Kuwait border, 30 months ago.
As George Bush's place in history is riding on the outcome of this war, he is right to be angry and alarmed. But this war is not the doing of any subordinate.
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kara Tyson
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posted
I have always liked Pat. And have voted for him a number of times.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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LabRat
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posted
Three thousand dead, and for what? Nightclubs blown up, and for what? Trains and subways blown up, and for what? Homicide bombers, and for what? Now ask me a hard one!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie tony z
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posted
Pat is an out and out idiot.....
Figures who would support an idiot...someone with an iq of 60.....
Ask the soldiers on the ground over there if they did the right thing...for whatever reason...
Don't alienate them like you buttheads did to the vietnam soldiers.....
The politicians make the wars and the people have to fight them...."black sabath War Pigs".
His father should have finished the job the first time when we had the world's approval...that was a great misstep and not the read my lips no new taxes that knocked him out of the white house.....
I hate war...unfortunately sometimes it's necessary.... I did'nt agree to go to Iraq...I did'nt believe the "inteligence reports" I happen to know a little about propaganda and supposed intelligence reports...blah blah blah.....
The saudi's wanted saddam OUT...not to mention the Jews......gee....don't you folks get it? We were not there because of WMD...we were there to clear the way for our "allies" regiems. Too bad Georgie Boy was'nt smart enough to figure that out for himself......
ah well even my rhetoric does'nt change anything......just
Don't turn on the troops like ya did on the vietnam vets............zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Kara Tyson
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posted
I dont know what your problem with me is exactly, but you sir have one.
Perhaps someone named Kara didnt pay you enough attention in high school. Perhaps they rejected you??
Maybe Tyson chicken made your tum tum sick when you were a baby.
I dont know. But I will never believe that you actually have Lyme or anyone you know has Lyme. I think you come here to cause problems, to put people down, and to give your life meaning in some way--
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Ya know, I'm gonna side with Mo and Kara here.....not right to characterize someones IQ, but equally not alright to tell someone to go to h*** Kara.
LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Pat has books to sell and not much else! You could spin his story 5-10 ways just by changing the names and some of the wording. He's telling a story as he sees it and to sell books. No responsibility for anything going wrong. Getting dated advise from pat is like getting advise on gambling, ie; any advise is bad advise!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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this War is not addressing the 3000 dead here on 911.
say what you will about Pat, but why not address the content? if this is so right, wouldn't you have answers?
Tony Z, yes..do stop going after Kara, that's totally innapropriate here.
IMO supporting this administration's abuse of the troops is what is harming them.
Of course they themselves cannot question, their lives depend on following orders and they are trained to do nothing but.
It's those in their charge that must be called to the mat. It is the responsibility of civillians hold those in top charge accountable for their actions.
So I might say it is those who believe as you do have turned your backs on our troops.
Those who blamed troops as individuals after Vietman are dispicable, IMO.. but equally so are those that turn a blind eye and accept White House PR without question, and them flame fellow citizens who look upon the situation with discerment.
It is our right, our responsibility, and we owe our troops who give their lives for us at least that much.
Many of their faces were posted in the Times this week.. the faces we were not allowed to see as per the current admin.
Have you seen them?
Mo
[ 29. October 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
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posted
No, nor do I want to anymore than I would run to a car wreck to gawk at the injured. You want to lead mo but your unfit. You don't have the skills, knowledge, or the ability to lead men. You have no training in any type of warfare except maybe propaganda that you spread for our opponents! Last I heard, the ragheads had over 1,000 web sites. They are not all stupid, they saw what defeated us in the last war and they are using the same weapons and paid organizers. The organizers don't think of their future, just payday and getting the dupes out to scream and slobber!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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Kara Tyson
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posted
Meg,
At this point I really dont care.
EVERY time I post, no matter what the subject I am called stupid, idiot, dummy... I have had it.
And I dont care.
And YOU might feel differant if you were the one being called names EVERY time you posted. Every time.
I have had enough.
I also given the moderators warning that they can kick me off if they need. But I will NO LONGER put up with this ****.
[ 29. October 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Kara Tyson ]
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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If posters can just repeatedly call those who disagree idiots.. either outright or within their text..
why not just make it a free-for-all? I have more respect for a straight comment than this semi-covert junk that goes on here.
Why is it so hard to just stay on topic?
What is evident in those kinds of posts, is that the poster has nothing else to offer.. but it is out of line just the same.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I never called anyone stupid or dumb...
I never had a bad chicken.... My sister even has stock in Tyson chicken.....
I never had a bad relationship with anyone named Kara....till now...I've been enjoined in this because Kara decided I was a "pathetic human being" one that is only here to cause trouble....
someone who does'nt even have lyme disease.... SHE MADE it personal....not me......I just won't roll over......
Kara decides it's pertinent to hear all about her cuz she likes to see her name all over the place..... Meg you ought to think about it...telling someone to "go to hell" is just what I would expect from someone with low intelligence...but she brought it up ya know...and it becomes fodder after that....
She remarks that she does'nt care...well hey she does'nt care much about the afflicted as most of her comments and posts are in off topic...I question whether she has lyme disease...because if there's one thing I've learned in my years...it is those that accuse are usually those that are being deceitful...... Why is it we don't see more of her dedication in medical where it can do some good instead of in the "political arena" where it does no lymie any good at all.....
I have a right to be here like anyone else as long as I follow the rules....which I do believe were vilated by ms Kara a couple of times already.....but unlike her I won't ask the moderators to bar her from being here....even if she has broken the rules.....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Kara Tyson
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posted
I dont give a damn if the moderators kick me off.
Our support group stopped giving money to this site over a year ago. We have asked over and over that our group be removed to no avail.
Dont do me any favors, zman. Complain all you want. I have enough of this sh it.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Being careful not to offend, I have noticed some of our left leaning ladies have put me in mind of the classic picture of a matronly opera singer. In full regalia, horns and all, down on one knee pleading for attention and tolerance to her point of view, while swinging a broadsword with both hands!
Who finds it perfectly acceptable to stick a ``chicken foot'', on most of her post, virtually flashing a finger at all who fought for and those that serve this country today.
Who has knowledge far greater than the CIA, FBI, and all the other many intelligence gathering services combined with battle field commanders making life and death decisions. She gets this information from the Internet and because it is slanted to reflects badly on America it must be accurate and we need it poked in our eyes!
Their forte is criticism and boy are they good at it! You'd think they had just spent twenty years in the army, learning how to gripe! A solution is never offered unless it is the over the top asinine, ``bring the troops home now'', which to the anti-war crowd seem perfectly logical, like so many other things the insurgence is hoping for.
They extend the reach of propagandist, gleefully I might add. Early on almost all of the propaganda came from abroad and the theme was America was bad. That got some mileage until some of the people with half a brain looked up and said, you know what, this is crap! So it was quickly changed to attack our president Mr. Bush. Did he serve or run? He's a terrorist, he's Hitler, worst than Hitler, He lied and everybody died. Bush is the point man in this battle on terrorism, bring Bush down and America will fold. Give the stupid Americans something they can get behind! It worked before didn't it!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Wow, I get nailed all the time from our fellow lefties, and even Kara, who is actually extreme on the far, far right often. But I don't let it bother me. If you're secure in who you are and and what you believe, you don't get shaken by people that say incorrect things about you or disagree with your beliefs.
I also think sometimes Kara sets herself up for being criticized because she's pretty agressive herself in giving her viewpoint to others (and even down right cold sometimes), and also can come across as a bit of the "I'm an intellectual and know more than you" kind of thing. And that makes people want to chime in and prove her wrong even more than normal for some.
The bottom line is this. If your views reflect about 1% or less of the US population, the chances are that your views are probably classified as extremist by the vast majority. So, therefore, you better have thick skin if you're going to push them, especially if you push them agressively. Everyone should be civil as possible, but don't expect people to think you're brilliant or smart at economics, foreign policy, politics, etc. if you're views are fringe. If my views were out of touch with most everyone else, I'd have to ask myself, "Geez, maybe I'm missing something and 99% of everyone else isn't so wrong!". An honest reality check can be a good thing.
Some people are brilliant at one thing and terrible at another. I love golf, but I'm terrible at it!! But I'm really good at other things. So no matter how wrong someone may be about foreign policy, the economy, etc., it doesn't mean they're not good at most other things in life.
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Bottom line is, there is a huge difference between disagreeing on topic, and personal attack.
Views and comments on issues and our elected are fair game. Noone is complaining about differing views.
But no - we should not have to 'take' the nasty things you say about us as individuals.. nor the constant beratement of certain views.. (as again relected above, tho tamer than usual.)
That stuff is way out of line.
Mo
[ 30. October 2005, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
I agree whole heartily that it would be very rare to find someone that we couldn't at least learn one thing from. I think we may be closer to mold than we care to admit! That is if you believe mold can communicate with itself. You'll have to forgive me, I've had two of my three beer limit, that is to say drink one, spill one and give one away and head home to bed!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Good Mo, then be consistent and stop attacking people under the definition you use against others you disagree or don't like. Please tone it down. Thanks.
[ 30. October 2005, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: 24bit ]
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I have never attacked an individual here, 24, but have called you out on doing so and you don't fool anyone.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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lymie tony z
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Hey yo Mo...when you agree with someone who is attacking it's the same as if you were attacking...
As far as your thought that I am "covert" in my posts let me put it to you another way...
I don't personally believe anyone here is an idiot or stupid or anything personal...however their opinions and viewpoints when posted are open to public criticism.
Now if you or whoever perceive objective criticism as a personal attack...there's something wrong in your perception. Taking what I or others write here and not reading it objectively and then turning it around and posting a defense does'nt mean we attacked you personally...except in your or others minds.
It could be a mars/venus thing or a yin/yang thing or whatever...that's what makes america great... Being the soul intellectual source on every subject under the sun and never admitting one is wrong...is just wrong.....zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
There is no problem with objective criticizm of viewpoints.
Entirely different issue.
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Well that's good then....
kindly stop accusing those with objective opinions of personalized attacks or harassment...
We'll all get along fine that way...... zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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