LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Well I must declare, it's a darn good thing that we have those among us that can forgive and forget so easily and be so prepared to give our enemies another shot at us. I am glad that we were a much simpler people when Pearl Harbor was bombed. It was pretty simple back then, you did this to us, now we're gonna do this to you! We were by and large a united people with a common cause. The enemy was killing our boys and if that didn't piss you off there was folks that wanted to talk to you! Now we must try and understand the poor creatures and just what all we had done to them to deserve this sneak attack and what can we do to make up for our transgression. Our boys are being killed and we have people telling us it's the fault of our president! Just how stupid would you have to be to buy into that? It seems everyone in NY just managed to get out of the trade towers in the nick of time and bare no ill will to anyone. On a par with anyone from Texas drinking muddy water from a hoof print, (and glad to get it)!
In this age of instant world wide communication, highly talented and skillful organizers bend and break the truth to their employers desires. Sure people will die but this is where the real fighting will be done. It may get so bad that you may just have to pick ``the truth'' your comfortable with and embrace that, right or wrong! Seem to me we are very near that point today!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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You make allot of leaps here, and first off, no NYer or anyone calling this admin to the mat is saying 'fine' to the attacks!
Exactly the opposite..The inept performance in dealing with Terrorism is what is not OK. ..it is NOT OK that the very force that attacked us has been strengthened by this insane War and God-awful administrators. It's not OK that we have money grubbing liars and incompetant posers at the helm of this fight.
And next I gotta go here, of course.. there is really little comparison (other than the shock and effect on nationalism) between Pearl Harbor and 911!
In fact..here's some cud for ya to chew on.. really, think about this..
Those who say it was right to attack Iraq based on supposition, rumor, and predictions of the future.. ought think Perl Harbor was justified.. after all, America posed much more danger to Japan then.. as we made OPEN threats about bombing them and actually HAD the bomb and had tested it !! Talk about reason for pre-emptive action! (I mean, if it's good for the goose...right?)
In any event, there are some significant diferences between 911 and Pearl Harbor.
Tho the reasons for comparing September 11 to Pearl Harbor may seem obvious to Americans, the absence of reference to the atomic bombings is notable given that the scene of urban devastation around the World Trade Center site is referred to as 'ground zero'.. a term associated with the original testing of atomic bombs during World War II. Furthermore, both events involved massive civilian casualties from attacks unimaginable prior to the event.
These comparisons are contested on the obvious grounds that Pearl Harbor was a military strike on a military target.
I take strong exception to comparing the cowardly attack on the World Trade Center to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
911 is far and away much, much worse for all Americans. The attack on Pearl Harbor was a military strike against a military target. Despicable, sneaky, call it what you will, but the attack on Pearl Harbor is not in the same ballpark. . . .
Noam Chomsky comment: "For the United States, this is the first time since the War of 1812 that the national territory has been under attack, or even threatened. Many commentators brought up a Pearl Harbor analogy, but that is misleading. On December 7, 1941, military bases in two U.S. colonies were attacked--not the national territory, which was never threatened. The U.S. preferred to call Hawaii a 'territory', but it was in effect a colony."(2002: 11-12).
For a country that had been in a privileged position of never witnessing the destructive effects of modern warfare on its own soil, both Pearl Harbor and 911 stand out as attacks at "home" that caused sudden, massive casualties and led to protracted war. These similarities, it seems, were enough to compel comparisons from the first moments following the September 11 attacks. References to Pearl Harbor were immediate and widespread in news reporting on the attacks.
On the one hand, the sheer scale of death and destruction was enough to bring comparisons, regardless of the nature of the attacks. We heard it many times.. "the other day of infamy", ect..
At first, media commentators and ordinary people groped to find ways to make sense of these events. Americans felt they were at war, but did not know with whom. Even calling the attack and its aftermath "war" stretches the usual meanings of "war" -- Seemed then references to Pearl Harbor proved especially useful as symbolic linkages between the still fuzzy and contested "war on terror" and World War II, America's "good war"
References to Pearl Harbor and World War II attempt to relate unimaginable events in terms of the familiar, known historical patterns... but they are starkly different circumstances all around.
The comparisons have faltered since tho. This time it was civilians dying in the nation's political and financial centers, not soldiers and sailors in a distant Pacific territory. This time the targets were buildings familiar to every schoolchild.
Also...this attack's perpetrators, or 'the enemy' does not reside in one nation we can bomb or desimate... it's a global network.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
ZZZZZZZzzzz. Sorry, tried to stay awkee^
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Anybody still awake after momo's commercial for what ever she was selling?
Forbes Sept. has an article on bloggers and the damage they can inflict. I would make a point to read it. To be informed is to be armed.
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
After the first few sentences, I can't take the continued negativity and pessimism.....and it does bore me to sleep sometimes.
Posts: 600 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Nov 2004
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
the water in NY makes us all think alike?
how insulting is that?? thanks so much, really. i was raised in minnesota and started coming to political consciousness as a pre-teenager volunteering at a homeless shelter; a consciousness that continued to grow as i witnessed daily racism at my suburban school; and as i struggled with sexual identity issues throughout middle and high school, ultimately came out, and became the target for a barrage of hateful & frightening gay-bashing until i escaped that awful place for a state-funded arts high school (a free charter school i credit with saving my life, literally).
so my political convictions were already quite well-developed before i ever moved to new york city. they are continuing to develop all the time, of course; never could they remain a static thing.
posted
No, the main point is not that because the attack was on a military base it is OK.. but then again, neither should ours be.. right? Especially when based only on a possibility and misinformation..
911 was diferent in that it was a civilian target, with intent to kill as many civilians as they could.
My point is how different Pearl Harbor was/is from 911 in many ways, and how different the enemy.
Heather, "never could they remain a static thing."
That's just it, we have to keep evolving ro surroundings and circumstances, otherwise we are just stagnant.
You don't have to explain yourself, your depth shows! I hope you know that the ones that say this kind of stuff I am beginning to realize do so because they have no response to the topic.
What I never have understood is is, why the need to for some folks to poke and jab? We do have that scroll button always at our fingertips if you don't care about the post topic, eh?
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Mo, I think I have a little bit, just a little bit, of sanity returning. I was on 2 weeks very heady duty abx for UTI, and got the herx of my life, in bed for 2 days, daughter took my keys away for 1 day, but you know my head and thinking is clearer than it has been for a long time.
I think I can put 2 thoughts together now. As for the baiting and sarcasm, etc., do those people who practice these methods, are they not aware by keeping the thread going, they are giving you guys the chance to inform and educate so many more, and the opportunity to open people's minds and hearts. I know there are many who read and never post.
Thanks for the reviewing, posting, etc. With my eye sight now, I just cannot do it anymore.
Corinne
Posts: 461 | From Abbotsford, BC, Canada | Registered: Oct 2003
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Wow, I hope you did a number on those keets and sent them down the drain!!
Drink lots and lots of good water!
-- and thanks I do know many read and do not post .. and I feel we all have to keep talking and thinking, in our communities, wherever..it's so important.
the main reason I keep on over here, actually.. is because I know others are reading.. and I was once too, and somehow the World set straighter when I read Shop and Dan's posts when I was too ill to wrangle the topics.
(despite how it looks, I'm not just here to woo LabRat )
Mo
[ 18. November 2005, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Hi, everybody! Good to see w're all in 'top form'... And there's stil the same stuff being claimed-- actually kind of shocking-- as if we attacked the same people who masterminded the terrorism in NY! NO! In fact ...'we'..., under the, UMMMMM, .... ...'leadership'... (yeah, RIGHT!)... of one gee dubya bush, attacked a third nation which was not very connected with the terrorism in NYC, but who just happened to be much more "important" strategically for ...'our'... ,um. ...'need' to continue wasting te world's natural resources at an ever increasing rate. Though much propaganda was spewed out of washington claiming ...'smart'... bombs would spare civilians' lives in iraq, it soon became clear that civilian deaths were and would continue to be, horrendous, as long as we had terrorists-oops, I mean, soldiers, over there with a virtuallly limitless supply of guns, bombs, and various other lethal toys. And 'we' funded this fiasco how? Why of course-- by borrowing from our children and stealing from our trusting trated 'partners' via massive currency inflation- That scum is just starting to hit the fan now. What goes up must come down- sing it-- There is cause and there's effect There's a reason why we must infect...
(yeah, I changed the words, since we be talkin war, not love... ....)
DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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LymeOjai
Unregistered
posted
Mo,
I'm just getting time to read the older posts relative to the war on terrorism in Iraq and here in the U.S.
I read this subject with some interest primarily because I found the following quote from your post:
[/QUOTE] 911 was diferent in that it was a civilian target, with intent to kill as many civilians as they could. [QUOTE]
I'm sure your comment was meant without malice toward the 184 people that died at the Pentagon, a decidely military target.
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Ojai,
What you have to understand is there is a lot of selective memory going on over here.
Like even her posts about Murtha..."never calling for an immediate pullout"
That's funny cuz that's exactly what he initially stated...then backed down a little a day later.
Just like the post about the poll....
Partial or half truths to suit there whimsical opinions.....
I guess that's why some of us don't show a lot of respect for those opinions...
Oh well....cest levi............zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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GEDEN13
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4151
posted
you pick and choose your truth,just like everyone else..
you only believe the people you like,right or wrong.and you run with that..
now come back with some more of your dribble....gary
Posts: 1108 | From PA. | Registered: Jun 2003
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
AW gee and I like you but don't agree with ya on some things...
dribble dribble (oh oh that's a double dribble something they don't hardly call anymore in NBA games)
I try really hard to read it all and stay objective. However it is a little difficult when not given all the truth.
That's the point I was trying to make. Ojai pointed out that the poll about 56% was missrepresented here by someone. Did'nt you read that Gary?
I would probably like anyone on here...I just would'nt always agree with they're politics.
Ojai also brings in an in country perspective to this board which seems to be ignored by some. They're not over there fighting like he is so what the heck do they know about it.
True, I'm not there either. However I have been to at least one war and can understand it a lot better than someone who has never been there.
I can REALLY understand the undermining of the leaders and troops thru accusations and name calling.....and gee I don't like it much.
SO I DRIBBLE ON!
If there are those here that agree with me or I them...what's wrong with that. There was a time not too long ago when I and one other were the only ones here to defend our leaders and troops. Now the tide has turned a little in our favor...so what!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Speaking of oil!
I don't soup pose any of our lefty friends watched Fox's ``winning Iraq'' last night. I found it enlightening and along with a lot of other good news, the nation's oil supply will be owned by the citizens and they will receive royalties on the sale of the oil.
Remember when.....and up to a few weeks ago, America was only there to steal the oil.....this is all about oil, you heard it over and over, day after day in one form or another. No blood for oil!! The organizers had the dupes out slobbering and burning cars. The lefties and outright communist, the anti Bush bashers, the anti war slimers, the anti America mob and TV anchorwomen, everyone had a story to tell, that was their truth, reality will never be as interesting as a story (lie) that can be made up! (My wife can attest to this!)
In my mind, the little island these people were standing on is getting smaller and smaller, some are up to their knees, others just have wet feet, one day they will be gone, only to appear again when, ``America needs their guidance''!
Had the left been successful in undermining America, the story would certainly have a different ending, similar to Viet Nam only much worse and setting the stage for our next defeat. After all, if it worked before and again this time, why not next time? The left would offer creative writing scholarships! They have improved and their targets have dumb down a bit making their job easier!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Aaannddd, maybe we could get fourth graders writing meaningful protest letters from their experiences!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Well I do have the odd thought on the subject buttt, the subject has been gored to death from all directions. I think I'll sit this one out, go ahead and start without me.
So Mo, Charlie, who's buying? I'm strictly a three beer guy. Drink one, spill one and give one away! Do they still have the Rocketts preforming?
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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I do know many read and do not post .. and I feel we all have to keep talking and thinking, in our communities, wherever..it's so important.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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