What I like is a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren (if my kids would get on the ball) to grow up in.
The idea that we have to have some amount of information held within the government to protect our safety does not bother me in the least.
I'd like to remind you also that the article spoke about all 50 states, not just the federal government.
quote:Security concerns were found to be the main driving force for state action, but concerns about identity theft, medical privacy and computer vulnerability to attack also drove legislatures.
According to the report all 50 states have enacted legislation that affects public access to government information.
There are many of those states that have a clear liberal bent to them politically, yet they to find it necessary in today's threat-ridden world to keep some information classified.
(I make that point not because you're a liberal, but it appears that the more liberal the state's legislature, the more prone they are to worry about secrecy).
I personally find these facts to be comforting. I appreciate not having my gun registration made public, my identity information protected, etc.
Teques - there are bad people out there!!
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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What I like is a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren (if my kids would get on the ball) to grow up in.
Well, do you consider national ID cards, then proceeding to RFID chips implanted in your body, retina scsns, cameras on every street, eavesdropping on all your phone calls, emails, etc., having someone snoop into your financial records, anyone arrested and thrown into a gulag without due process if they criticize the President's actions, making you more safe? You might just get your wish.
Then, your gun might just get confiscated. After all, you already told them you had it.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
LymeDad, you do not adhere to any conservative principles I have ever seen.
The idea that we have to have some amount of information held within the government to protect our safety does not bother me in the least.
I'd like to remind you also that the article spoke about all 50 states, not just the federal government.
quote:Security concerns were found to be the main driving force for state action, but concerns about identity theft, medical privacy and computer vulnerability to attack also drove legislatures.
According to the report all 50 states have enacted legislation that affects public access to government information.
There are many of those states that have a clear liberal bent to them politically, yet they to find it necessary in today's threat-ridden world to keep some information classified.
Well, you must be calling Bush a liberal then. Because he has lengthened times for documents being classified, such as with Reagan's papers, and has done a lot of reclassifying of previously declassifed documents.
(I make that point not because you're a liberal, but it appears that the more liberal the state's legislature, the more prone they are to worry about secrecy).
Your point is null and void.
I personally find these facts to be comforting. I appreciate not having my gun registration made public, my identity information protected, etc.
Yes, but you let the government know all about it. Must I remind you why your Founding Fathers wanted you to have a gun in the first place?
Teques - there are bad people out there!!
Ok.. let me get this straight. You trust everyone IN government. You think the problem is with everyone NOT in the government. People are people. There are good and bad ones everywhere. The difference is... the people IN government have a lot more chance of abusing your privacy and taking away your freedom.
[ 13. March 2006, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: tequeslady ]
Posts: 856 | From Texas | Registered: Jan 2005
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I wish I had more time right now, but I've got to work sometime.
I just wanted to quickly comment:
WOW - you got all of this:
quote:Ok.. let me get this straight. You trust everyone IN government. You think the problem is with everyone NOT in the government. People are people. There are good and bad ones everywhere. The difference is... the people IN government have a lot more chance of abusing your privacy and taking away your freedom.
out of my saying:
quote:The idea that we have to have some amount of information held within the government to protect our safety does not bother me in the least.
You assumed that:
quote:LymeDad, you do not adhere to any conservative principles I have ever seen.
Because I stated:
quote:I personally find these facts to be comforting. I appreciate not having my gun registration made public, my identity information protected, etc.
Teques - there are bad people out there!!
Amazing!!! I've just got to re-read my posts more clearly in the future. I do think, however, that you may be reading too much between the lines.
More later, when I have time.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Ok.. let me get this straight. You trust everyone IN government. You think the problem is with everyone NOT in the government. People are people. There are good and bad ones everywhere. The difference is... the people IN government have a lot more chance of abusing your privacy and taking away your freedom.
Excellent point. I'd like to know what you think about that statement, LymeDad.. plus -- many of the issues raised here on OT lately have had groundwork laid in Clinton, Bush and other administrations. It just happens to be moving faster now due to Congress control (more of a portion of them are on this bandwagon) - and the ability to use the War on Terror to accomplish some of the agenda.
You seem like a very reasonable man. I would like it if you might take a different look at some of the things posted here. Not all, but some. We really do have to stop thinking along party lines.
In other words, in my view.. Whether it's Clinton - Kerry - Bush - Cheney .. we are pretty much talking one in the same here as far as many of the issues raised regarding freedoms, World Government, War policies, more power for government, Coorperate control, and a greater divide between the wealthy and the rest of the country -- ect, ect, ect. Many of these things are falling outside 'old school' Conservative values as far as government and balance or power is concerned.
Maybe if you understand that it is NOT a Partison issue for us - you may consider some of these things differently than when you see them as 'Anti-Bush' sentiments.
This post here goes into some of it -- Bush is in power now...but I believe Hilary and a few other Dems would ultimately fall in line with many of the same issues of concern.
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:What I like is a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren (if my kids would get on the ball) to grow up in.
The idea that we have to have some amount of information held within the government to protect our safety does not bother me in the least.
For crying out loud, we're at war!!!
I don't want every Islamic terrorists or Islamic sympathizer knowing everything there is to know about my country's secrets.
I don't even want you two to know anything about my personal life, even though I'm positive you two are not Islamic spies (you're not are you?)
How in the world did my response of wanting a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren evolve to:
quote:Well, do you consider national ID cards, then proceeding to RFID chips implanted in your body, retina scsns, cameras on every street, eavesdropping on all your phone calls, emails, etc., having someone snoop into your financial records, anyone arrested and thrown into a gulag without due process if they criticize the President's actions, making you more safe?
SAY WHAT????
Then it got even curiouser and curiouser:
quote:LymeDad, you do not adhere to any conservative principles I have ever seen.
What conservative principles have I violated??
I'm a registered Republican, I voted for Arnold for governor, I don't believe in same-sex marriage, etc., etc., where have I failed???
Am I a closet Liberal?? Suicide would be the only solution.
Then I'm told:
quote: Ok.. let me get this straight. You trust everyone IN government. You think the problem is with everyone NOT in the government. People are people. There are good and bad ones everywhere. The difference is... the people IN government have a lot more chance of abusing your privacy and taking away your freedom.
Where in the world did you read where I said I trusted everyone in government??? If I made that statement I must have been asleep or drugged.
Guys, remember me, I spent 25 years in the military.
It was the "government" who promised none of my retirement benefits would ever be taken away.
It was the "government" who promised I would have clean sheets and three squares a day.
Me trust everyone in government??
You've got to be kidding!!!
From there Mo, you jump in with:
quote:Excellent point. I'd like to know what you think about that statement, LymeDad.. plus -- many of the issues raised here on OT lately have had groundwork laid in Clinton, Bush and other administrations. It just happens to be moving faster now due to Congress control (more of a portion of them are on this bandwagon) - and the ability to use the War on Terror to accomplish some of the agenda.
Don't you have to read me my Miranda Rights prior to the inquisition??
All I said in essence is that I thought tightening security (physical, informational & others) at all levels of government is a logical thing to do considering the circumstances in which we live.
Finally, if I've pissed you both off because I said you had motherly feelings for HappyCarelessDave and Dave with lots of numbers, I'm sorry. It was just an observation.
OBTW: I am definitely a social conservative. I just happen to believe that these are critical times in our country's history and as my son would say:
we must improvise, adapt and overcome.
If you two don't watch it you're going to hurt my feelings, NAH can't be done!
The only three who can hurt my feelings all have my last name.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by lymedad: You two have got to take a chill pill.
The subject of this thread is
"Gov't Information - Secrecy Surge"
Teques asked me if I liked secret governments.
I simply replied,
quote:What I like is a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren (if my kids would get on the ball) to grow up in.
The idea that we have to have some amount of information held within the government to protect our safety does not bother me in the least.
For crying out loud, we're at war!!!
I don't want every Islamic terrorists or Islamic sympathizer knowing everything there is to know about my country's secrets.
I don't even want you two to know anything about my personal life, even though I'm positive you two are not Islamic spies (you're not are you?)
How in the world did my response of wanting a safe and secure environment for my grandchildren evolve to:
quote:Well, do you consider national ID cards, then proceeding to RFID chips implanted in your body, retina scsns, cameras on every street, eavesdropping on all your phone calls, emails, etc., having someone snoop into your financial records, anyone arrested and thrown into a gulag without due process if they criticize the President's actions, making you more safe?
SAY WHAT????
Nothing "curious" about it, Dad. You are apparently willing to give up your liberty for what you consider to be "safety". Do you really think that is a wise thing to do? You, being ex-military are well aware that we have fought long and hard to maintain our freedom and liberty. You yourself took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Yet, now, you seem to be so willing to let the Constitution be trampled upon.
Furthermore, Dad, it's not JUST this post. You have expressed this attitude through a plethora of your other posts.
Then it got even curiouser and curiouser:
quote:LymeDad, you do not adhere to any conservative principles I have ever seen.
What conservative principles have I violated??
I'm a registered Republican, I voted for Arnold for governor, I don't believe in same-sex marriage, etc., etc., where have I failed???
Am I a closet Liberal?? Suicide would be the only solution.
We've been through this before, Dad. Being a Republican, does not make you Conservative. Traditionally, Conservatives believed in limited government. i.e. federal government involvement in the life of citizenry should be minimal. i.e. The majority of the powers should be left to the states and the people. Government should be responsible. i.e. it lives within its means. Government should promote self-reliance. i.e. no hand-outs. These are but a few of the traditional conservative principles.
How does what you believe correspond? I don't see it. You back everything Dubya is doing right now. He has spent more $ than all previous Presidents COMBINED. We are in debt over our eye-balls. Our country is increasingly owned by foreign entities (not just his fault, but he did nothing to deter it), he has pushed the most draconian legislation in the history of our country (Patriot Act I, II and other assorted Constitutionally violating legislation). He got CAFTA passed and asked to be able to fast-track FTAA, which will further break our country and eliminate our sovereignty.
Even though many have asked for further investigation into 9-11, he has made it clear that he does not want that done. This doesn't even broach the topic of the Carlyle Group (did you ever watch that video on this group?) AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.
Yet, you still back him.
As far as your man, Arnold is concerned. His father was a Nazi officer. Arnold has been quoted as saying:
"People need somebody to watch over them. . . . Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave." (US News and World Report)
"At that point, I didn't think about money. I thought about the fame, about just being the greatest. I was dreaming about being some dictator of a country or some savior like Jesus. Just to be recognized." (Rolling Stone)
And you're proud of voting for this guy? Sorry, not Conservative at all. Nada. Zilch.
Then I'm told:
quote: Ok.. let me get this straight. You trust everyone IN government. You think the problem is with everyone NOT in the government. People are people. There are good and bad ones everywhere. The difference is... the people IN government have a lot more chance of abusing your privacy and taking away your freedom.
Where in the world did you read where I said I trusted everyone in government??? If I made that statement I must have been asleep or drugged.
Guys, remember me, I spent 25 years in the military.
It was the "government" who promised none of my retirement benefits would ever be taken away.
It was the "government" who promised I would have clean sheets and three squares a day.
Me trust everyone in government??
You've got to be kidding!!!
Yet, LymeDad, you seem to support everything they're doing. You are supporting them trampling on our Constitution and are not holding them accountable.
From there Mo, you jump in with:
quote:Excellent point. I'd like to know what you think about that statement, LymeDad.. plus -- many of the issues raised here on OT lately have had groundwork laid in Clinton, Bush and other administrations. It just happens to be moving faster now due to Congress control (more of a portion of them are on this bandwagon) - and the ability to use the War on Terror to accomplish some of the agenda.
Don't you have to read me my Miranda Rights prior to the inquisition??
All I said in essence is that I thought tightening security (physical, informational & others) at all levels of government is a logical thing to do considering the circumstances in which we live.
How is this "logical"?. We were warned.... "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Benjamin Franklin)
This looks exactly like what you're willing to do.
I'm sure you know history and are aware of countries that followed this give up your liberty for security principle.... didn't turn out too well, did it?
Finally, if I've pissed you both off because I said you had motherly feelings for HappyCarelessDave and Dave with lots of numbers, I'm sorry. It was just an observation.
OBTW: I am definitely a social conservative.
Interesting that you would call yourself a "social" conservative. Where do you stand, fiscally?
I just happen to believe that these are critical times in our country's history and as my son would say:
we must improvise, adapt and overcome.
Well, you're allowing our Constitution and our country to be improvised and OVERCOME. I fail to see the conservatism or patriotism in that.
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