Neal Boortz is an author and nationally syndicated libertarian talk-show host.
Full disclosure compels him to reveal that he is also a "reformed" attorney who is being paid massive amounts of money in exchange for his promise not to actually practice law any more.
quote: Perhaps it has already occurred to you that Social Security isn't exactly one of the grandest schemes ever devised by public servants. Maybe you've also come to the realization that our system of government-owned and union-operated indoctrination centers known as "public schools" are doing a less-than-excellent job educating our children. You might even understand that this Medicare prescription program that seems to be the political rage right now will eventually become an uncontrollable $100-billion-a-year nightmare.
Believe me, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.
Brace yourselves my friends, for it's time for a nasty dose of reality. Socialized medicine is inevitable in the United States. It's coming fast, and it's unstoppable. There's a perfect health-care storm brewing just over the horizon comprised of two converging fronts. This storm is going to destroy what's left of competitive influences in American health care and, eventually, the system itself.
On the one hand, we have an onrushing public front which overwhelmingly believes Americans are entitled to medical care - that medical care is a basic right that they should neither have to pay for nor be denied. We also have an extremely dangerous political front made up of thousands of politicians and bureaucrats who are collectively approaching a level-5 (as measured on the FDR scale) state of terminal drooling over the possibility of having the entire population of this nation by their medicinal short hairs.
Logic cannot support the premise that health care is a right. Health care is a service that is administered by another human being with the requisite skills and knowledge. To claim that healthcare as a "right" is to claim a right to the services of the health-care provider. In effect, this means you are claiming a "right" to a portion of that person's life - both a portion of the time already spent developing his skills, and a portion of the time spent practicing those skills on you.
Only through a mutual agreement, a contract, can one person claim a right to a portion of another person's life. Anything beyond that is either charity or slavery.
But, as I said, its coming. Socialized medicine is the future of health care in the United States, and many of you couldn't be happier.
Forgive me while I proceed to attempt to burst your little health-care-utopia bubble. There have been a few stories in the media over the past few weeks that you might find a bit interesting.
A few weeks ago, the Telegraph of London had a rather interesting story about major surgery under Britain's National Health Service as compared to the current system in America. It seems that a patient is four times more likely to go on to the eternal celestial dirt nap after undergoing major surgery in Great Britain than in the United States. This study was conducted by University College in London and Columbia University in New York and followed 1,000 patients undergoing similar surgeries. One of the researchers explained the results of the study by pointing out the higher quality of post-operative care in the United States.
I guess the Brits should quit complaining about this disparity, shouldn't they? After all, it's not like they're paying for their operations over there, is it? I guess you get what you pay for.
Another lovely little look into our socialized-medicine future comes by way of a Sept. 13, 2003 New York Times article. Times reporter Gina Kolata finds that visits to doctors offices have become a regular daily part of the social life of certain wizened citizens in Boca Raton, Fla. Kolata writes: "Many patients have 8, 10 or 12 specialists and visit one or more of them most days of the week." She adds: "They bring their spouses and plan their days around their appointments, going out to eat or shopping while they are in the area.
Boca doctors report that there is "no apparent medical benefit" from these daily or weekly visits. Kolata reports that researchers agree that this is "... a case study of what happens when people are given free rein to have all the medical care they could imagine."
There's our future, my friends. You want your "right" to health care, and the politicians want their "right" to your vote. They'll end up giving you what you think you want, and then, during every election cycle, they'll frighten you by telling you that their election opponent wants to take it all away again. In the meantime, you'll stand in line waiting for the Boca matrons to finish their socializing so you can get your turn with your government-employed doctor.
Question: When the post-surgical fatality rate in the United States starts to go up under the auspices of government medical care, where are you going to go for that surgery? Canada? You'll die waiting.
I think I'll be like Alex Baldwin, Barbara Steisand and some on this discussion board, I'll escape the U.S. if I don't get my way:
If we ever get socialized medicine here in the U.S., I'm going to Canada or Australia or Sweden. No - No I can't they all have socialized medicine. What to do, what to do guess I'll just have to eat worms.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
good!
and um, how exactly is it controversial at all to state that healthcare is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT that should be FREE at the time of need for EVERYONE??
we all have a right to live, correct? health care for all is necessary and fundamental to that very basic tenet.
ps. i know you hate him, but since i don't feel like copying and pasting his website addresses for factual backup one by one - from michael moore's 'fact-check' site on 'sicko':
"Canadian "wait times" not nearly as long as some try to allege.
According to Statistics Canada, the official government statistical agency, "In 2005, the median waiting time was about 4 weeks for specialist visits, 4 weeks for non-emergency surgery, and 3 weeks for diagnostic tests. Nationally, median waiting times remained stable between 2003 and 2005 - but there were some differences at the provincial level for selected specialized services.... 70 to 80 percent of Canadians find their waiting times acceptable" "Access to health care services in Canada, Waiting times for specialized services (January to December 2005)," Statistics Canada, click for source
A recent study of emergency care in Ontario found that overall, "50% of patients triaged as CTAS I [most acute] were seen by a physician within 6 minutes and 86% were seen within 30 minutes of arriving at the [Emergency Department]. In contrast, the 50% of patients triaged as CTAS IV or V who were seen most quickly waited an hour or less, while 1 in 10 waited three hours or more. Understanding Emergency Department Wait Times: How Long Do People Spend in Emergency Departments in Ontario? Canadian Institute for Health Information, January 2007. click for source
"Gerard Anderson, a Johns Hopkins health policy professor who has spent his career examining the world's healthcare, said there are delays, but not as many as conservatives state. In Canada, the United Kingdom and France, 'three percent of hospital discharges had delays in treatment,' Anderson told The Miami Herald. 'That's a relatively small number, and they're all elective surgeries, such as hip and knee replacement.' John Dorschner, "'Sicko' film is set to spark debate; Reformers are gearing up for 'Sicko,' the first major movie to examine America's often maligned healthcare system," Miami Herald, June 29, 2007." *
the whole 'in canada you have to wait 3000 years for surgery or treatment and by the time you receive it you'll be dead!!' argument is a complete fallacy, meant to scare us away from universal healthcare. unfortunately, it seems to be working.
pps. ask doctors who practice in canada or france or england if they feel that they are 'slaves' to their patients, because care is free at the time of service. i'm quite sure they will laugh in your face.
posted
It's easy to tell that you and I will never agree on this subject, so I'll just add one more comment;
If you get to have your free health care you'll probably get just what you pay for.
My grandpa used to say be careful if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is just that.
I'm old enough where I don't have to worry too much about my healthcare being controlled by some bureaucratic entity, mainly because I've worked and planned for this time in my life.
Both of my grown children won't be having children, one has Lyme and my daughter-in-law has MS, so I won't have any grandchildren to worry about.
Remember ten or fifteen years from when you who think you're "entitled" to "free" health care as a human right get just that, that this old man tried to warn you against it.
With all the excellent health care being provided to the more progressive, your words not mine, countries like GB, France, Germany, Lyme Disease is still a reality world-wide.
If they are so good with their healthcare why haven't they found a cure yet???
I know my daughter is getting the care she needs to fight this awful disease. She's getting the care because she sees a for-profit, caring physician who is not regulated by health insurance companies or the government.
It's called free enterprise.
Good Luck,
LymeDad
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
Ah Lymedad, remember when we were young and the answers were easy and simple (and we had em all)! The gov er mint will provide for us, cause we never learned to fend for ourselves. (and it's free!!!)
Can't trust government to read your mail but in life and death medical decisions it's ok! Yep yep, sure sure!
Kid ok?
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 380
posted
poor people need to be insured in this country. health care should be better and for all people in U.S.A. no one should be without health care in U.S.A. rich or poor shouldn't make a difference everyone should have it. health care in this country needs to get better no matter how it gets done.
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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MagicAcorn
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posted
The greatest charity you can give someone is a paycheck, not a handout. That way you get a service, and they get to hold on to there self esteem and dignity.
The poor problem in this country goes a lot deeper than them just not having health care. The poor are a problem topic all there own with many different issues - lack of education, alcoholism, generational example, refusal to relocate, breakdown of the family, etcetera. They have a lot of other issues they must address before I'm willing to toss in free health care. I'm already paying for their food stamps and emergency visits.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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RoadRunner
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posted
A paycheck isn't charity you earn it in most places! Lack of education some people can't afford it or just aren't smart enough for it. So a dying person shouldn't get cared for or someone with a bad medical problem? They should be left on street?
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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SunRa
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posted
wow, I'm not even sure where to start in responding to some of the statements above....clearly we're on such different wavelengths that it's not even worth the little energy I have.
according to the Children's Defense Fund, a baby is born uninsured every 47 seconds...1 in 9 children in the US. we should put those kids to work, make them earn their medicine!!!
and it's not just the poor who are uninsured by the way. it's affecting more and more of the middle class, even those with good jobs.
you guys could be next...
then how will you feel about this issue?
Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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MagicAcorn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8786
posted
You are missing MY point!
I have tried in earnest to educate some folks on Universal Healthcare (being a dual citizen I do have an educated awareness) and it has been a very frustrating experience.
Whiners and crybabies are the biggest problem in this country. The folks that can't keep up for whatever reason are always complaining. Where I come from its called sour grapes.
I can say that because I've earned my citizenship and had to show proof that I was medically/psychologically sound. Most Americans confuse their freedoms for rights and do not appreciate how good they have it.
Start playing the game of life a little better and you'd have a lot less to complain about. Like Lymedad said he planned for a rainy day. Lyme is your rainy day. It's not everyone's else's fault you didn't buy an umbrella.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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RoadRunner
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Member # 380
posted
some people live pay check to pay check and can't afford an umbrella in this country. I know about poor people because some of my friends were poor when I was young and I also had rich friends and saw both sides. I just think everyone should have health care thats all.
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I don't think that "rights" have anything to do with healthcare. I think it is more a matter of what is in the best interests of our society: An insurance company with high earnings or having a healthy population? And what is the best way to reach that healthy society goal?...assuming that is where we want to go.
When large portions of a group/population do not get adequate health care (and that percentage is now rising in the US)...it has the capacity to hurt the rest of the group. (contagious diseses & other Public Health issues spring most readily to mind) But it probably impacts other areas of society too: For instance, it is difficult to work or learn if you are ill, or care adequately for your children...much less be a contributing member of society in almost any capacity. Most of us here have some first hand experience with that. Some of the people in our support group have had lyme since childhood that went undiagnosed for years. They could not work. Shall we just turn our heads away from our brothers & sisters on this earth?
Not only do I think that Universal Health Care is a moral imperative (people vs corporations), I think it will benefit all of us.
Posts: 101 | From CA, USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Here is a website about CA SB840 Universal Health Care Bill. It points out the difference between socialized medicine and Universal or One Payer systems. They are not identical.
MagicAcorn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8786
posted
RR there are people that live like millionaires and who make the money of millionaires who live paycheck to paycheck to keep up there lifestyle never getting anywhere also.
There are others who live modest lives and do everything right and have thought about all the what ifs and have prepared for them. They live in the modest house and drive the five year old cars instead of going for the show. Those are the folks I care about, Middle America. The backbone of this society. They can't afford anymore taxes.
And what about the folks who will just stop working all together since it was only the incentive of having health insurance that has kept them working. I know many people who would stop working if it wasn't for the very real need of health insurance coverage.
Also the foreigners every one complains about now will have even more of an incentive to get here. And they will, because who doesn't want something for nothing. I don't personally because you get nothing for nothing.
You know what really gets my goat. The employers who offer their employees cash incentives to opt out of covering them. These employees gamble, and me and you get stuck paying their bills. This should NOT be an option at all.
But if you think this has any real possibility of happening go on thinking that. I happen to have enough confidence in our representatives that they have already seen this issue for what it is - wishful thinking in a perfect world.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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MagicAcorn
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posted
Thank you Meg.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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heiwalove
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posted
it's really easy to blame the poor for being poor, the oppressed for being oppressed. that way you don't have to look at how YOU (yes, you, me, all of us) contribute to the incredible problem of poverty in this country. that way you don't have to look at how the system makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. that way racism doesn't exist, and black people and other folks of color are just complaining and making life difficult for themselves.
what a great and comfortable theory for people already in power - white, middle/upper class, etc.!
MagicAcorn
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posted
There are more poor whites than all others...lose the racism card.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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RoadRunner
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Member # 380
posted
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn:
Also the foreigners every one complains about now will have even more of an incentive to get here. And they will, because who doesn't want something for nothing. I don't personally because you get nothing for nothing.
well we already have a lot of foreigners here so what if more come I don't mind.
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: But if you think this has any real possibility of happening go on thinking that. I happen to have enough confidence in our representatives that they have already seen this issue for what it is - wishful thinking in a perfect world.
I have no confidence in representatives because this should have been fixed along time ago.
they are all crooks.
people that spend all there money is their business but you have to have it to spend.
the health care system is broke it is time to fix it.
do you know that congress get the best health care coverage for the rest of there lives.
maybe if they had to go on SS at retirement things would change.
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
magic acorn, i'm certainly not saying there aren't poor whites (there are plenty).. but your assertion is wrong.
you need only open your eyes to see the huge overlap between race & poverty in this country. katrina is one very obvious example.
proof: "Poverty rates for blacks and Hispanics greatly exceed the national average. In 2004, 24.7 percent of blacks and 21.9 percent of Hispanics were poor, compared to 8.6 percent of non-Hispanic whites and 9.8 percent of Asians."
source, national poverty center, university of michigan *
please check your facts before you make such an egregiously incorrect statement.
SunRa
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posted
quote:Originally posted by MagicAcorn: Whiners and crybabies are the biggest problem in this country. The folks that can't keep up for whatever reason are always complaining. Where I come from its called sour grapes.
Start playing the game of life a little better and you'd have a lot less to complain about. Like Lymedad said he planned for a rainy day. Lyme is your rainy day. It's not everyone's else's fault you didn't buy an umbrella.
Well, you can call ME a crybaby because the first thing I did after reading your post was cry.
I cried because I was blindsided by this hellish illness too young to have had a chance to buy an umbrella.
I cried because the umbrella my parents worked so hard to create for me broke 3 yrs into my illness.
I cried for all the people on lymenet who were similarly affected by your insensitivity but are too sick to post.
I cried for all the people who would be equally offended if only they were as fortunate as we are to have a roof over their heads, let alone a computer.
But, mostly I cried for all the children being born into such an unjust, selfish, and egotistical world.
Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
heiwalove and sunra
Excellent post
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
SunRa - (((hugs)). i'm crying right along with you, girl.
acorn - a huge number of people do not, and have never, had the resources necessary to buy your cute little metaphorical 'umbrella.' you are lucky. others may not be, through absolutely no fault of their own.
i worry for a country (and a people) so seriously lacking in basic empathy for our fellow human beings.
The "kid" is actually feeling better. Great LLMD, great medicinal/herbal protocol. Still miles to go, but can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I've raised two of my own and probably 200 maybe 300 that belonged to "Uncle".
I don't seem to have the energy or the motivation to continue to try to raise 'em here, but I sure do like trying to see if they can defend their misguided opinions.
I'm seeing a lot of regurgitating of other's point-of-view and very little original thought, but that kind of goes along with the entitlement mentality.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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dontlikeliver
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Member # 4749
posted
Deleted. Just not worth sharing my experiences living with both systems as I had typed out here.
[ 21. July 2007, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: dontlikeliver ]
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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charlie
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Member # 25
posted
I see the usual group trying to divert the discussion into stuff about race and making emotional appeals out of what should be a discussion in purely logical rational terms...
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
what makes me so angry is that i worked 30 years for insurance coverage in retirement and then BAM!! the insurance company decides you've filed too many claims and then says, oh enough, we're not paying anymore, your name is going on our bad list.
that's what makes me angry!!!
and just a note -- our church sponsored a foreign exchange adult program. when asked what he thought of our country, he replied "you're all lazy. you want everything handed to you."
i was so stunned i couldn't speak....i almost asked well, what are you doing here then? but he said most foreigners think that....hmmmmmm
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by randibear: what makes me so angry is that i worked 30 years for insurance coverage in retirement and then BAM!! the insurance company decides you've filed too many claims and then says, oh enough, we're not paying anymore, your name is going on our bad list.
that's what makes me angry!!!
and just a note -- our church sponsored a foreign exchange adult program. when asked what he thought of our country, he replied "you're all lazy. you want everything handed to you."
i was so stunned i couldn't speak....i almost asked well, what are you doing here then? but he said most foreigners think that....hmmmmmm
foreigner get loans for small business from government that they don't pay back because then they sell to a family member before they have to pay back,then sell to another family member(husband,wife,son,daughter,brother,sister) and so on.
a foreigner in my area told me this.... who happens to be a friend of mine
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
quote:Originally posted by charlie: I see the usual group trying to divert the discussion into stuff about race and making emotional appeals out of what should be a discussion in purely logical rational terms...
You're right, Charlie.
I deleted my post because I realized it was my feelings and beside the point.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
(for the record, acorn, numbers without percentages are the misleading statistics, not the other way around)
i am not going to contribute to threads like this anymore. like sunra, it just makes me cry - and you can call me overemotional, tell me i'm diverting the topic, whatever - but the fact remains that the absolute LACK of empathy of many people on this board is completely awful and depressing.. AND surprising, as i know we've all gone through at least a fair amount of hell with lyme or we wouldn't be posting here in the first place. i was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that those who suffer are more inclined to be caring and empathetic toward the suffering of others. i still want to believe that people are basically good, and that this board does not represent the direction our country is taking - down the s***hole. a place where selfishness and me-first attitudes reign, and caring about others, feeling deeply, and having a big heart are considered negative traits.
maybe where you live you don't see poverty every day. maybe it isn't staring you in the face from the moment you walk out your door, to the moment you return. or maybe you're just simply blind to its existence. i don't know.
i live in new york city, in a poor neighborhood in brooklyn. there's a homeless man who spends most of his time hanging out and sleeping right outside my apartment door. homelessness and extreme poverty are EVERYWHERE (and yes, magic acorn, 95 percent of the MANY homeless people i come across every day in this city are indeed people of color), right next to (or within mere miles, sometimes blocks, of) some of the wealthiest corporations in this entire country.
it is a stark thing to wake up to every day. but i, for one, am grateful i haven't spent my whole life sheltered from the hellish reality that so many endure in our supposed 'land of the free, home of the brave.' even with the lyme that almost killed me, i know how lucky i am. every single day i'm reminded of it. so, i've vowed to spend my life working for the rights of those who aren't so lucky, who, since they were born (because of racism, classism, and lots of other factors that most people on this board seem to have no experience with) have been swept toward the cracks and pushed right in.
may our children and grandchildren live to see a gentler, kinder, more just world.
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
....but the fact remains that blindly turning over much of our personal resources to a bloated incompetent mess like the federal bureaucracy and then expecting them to take care of us with any degree of efficiency if at all may be more like out of the frying pan into the fire.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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LabRat
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Member # 78
posted
Charlie, want some popcorn?
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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SunRa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3559
posted
quote:Originally posted by charlie: I see the usual group trying to divert the discussion into stuff about race and making emotional appeals out of what should be a discussion in purely logical rational terms...
you always talk about wanting to hear more original thoughts...well I've heard this one over and over from the GOP.
And this thread turned irrational a long time ago. I'm sorry if people were uncomfortable with me expressing my true and raw emotions at the moment. I had first written a collected and "rational" response, but deleted it when the tears started coming and felt I had more genuine things to say and I think there's much more logic and truth in it than a lot of what's been written above.
I'm gonna go back to focusing on my healing now in the hopes that I can get well enough to actually get out there and get involved with more meaningful projects aimed at initiating change.
We need to work together though!
``Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism.'' - Hubert H. Humphrey
...so give it a shot! we won't think any less of you Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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SunRa
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posted
I'm with you, heather! we must have been posting at the same time Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Boomerang
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posted
I'm with meg. You said it all Magic.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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Member # 7136
posted
I'm with YOU**!))!! YES YOU!*)*)!!
I have to say I'm with the bleeding progressives*)!*)! I think we have become a lazy undereducated country. Boy, our educational system is so low!! They are literally years ahead in some other countries when it comes to math and science!!!
Racism is institutionalized in this country and if you are white you unconciously partake and benfit from it. If you go to THE DOCTOR for example, you WILL BE TREATED BETTER and GIVEN MORE SERVICES AND TESTS, if you are white, on average, from sea to shining sea in this country. You will therefore have BETTERS ODDS against CANCERHEART PROBLEMS so amny things that so many good hardworking black Americans will DIE from this year when their white counterparts will not!
That is racism.
Contrary to popular ideas did you know there are thousands of adoptable infants out there? Did you know that at any time if you want a baby there ARE available infants??? OH- but they are black!!! Whenever you see baby girls being brought back from China, please if you are thinking about adoption know that there are thousands of adoptable black babies no one WANTS in THIS country languishing in foster care.
That is racism.
In our local Lyme group we have had only a few people that are truly poor because ours is a pretty well-off area- but we had one woman who self-treated with abx because she couldn't get a doctor to treat her and because she was poor. She used animal abx from the feed store and did great btw.
But you know who I think of when I think of this issue lately? Someone I hadn't thought of in years. Lincoln Dixon. Linc "the Lip" Dixon.
I went to high school with this kid in LA. My high school was right on the proverbial train tracks. I came from one side. He came from the other. He was a typical stoner kid in every way, hung out with a mixed crowd of white & Latino rather than the locals from his neighborhood. (Our high school had The Playboy Gangstas and yes, the female gang, was called The Playboy Gangsta Bunnies. ANYWAY, he was not part of them at all.) He hung with The SToner Crew at my high school and his nickname was LIP. Do you know why this young mans nickname was Lip?
Because at age 17, he still had the Harelip he was born with. I don't know if you have ever seen soemone with a cleft palate. It is an easy easy easy operation, very cheap, maybe a few thousand dollars!!! But he had never been able to afford it, his family had never been able to afford it. So he was walking around with a harelip in junior high and high school- and in kindergarten- when it was a 20 minute operation that could have been done years ago.
So he is who I think of lately- I used to feel so bad for him- he had a gerat attitude about it htough- but he looked like this- if you scroll down there is a boy before and after- well, last time I saw him he was 18 years old and he still looked like BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway, Magic Acorn and everyone else on The Other Side, I think you made some great points and nothing is perfect, but for those who have nothing something is better than that*!!!
Take care all-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Itsy_bitsyone
Unregistered
posted
tracy,
very true. Its not going to improve Lyme care. Possibly, it will make it worse because docs will be even more closely required to adhere to "standards" because their paycheck comes from the government. Same for autoimmune disease, endocrine diseases, etc. Any disease group where there are more than one or two camps.
Try to get long term abx when the govt controlls your docs paychecks, and does the audits. You think the insurance companies are harsh in not paying? Wait till you cannot get them at all!!
And where exactly do you think the funding will come from? Remember Daycare and earned income credit at tax time? Remember when getting a refund was fun? Say bye, bye. Ask someone from England what they pay in taxes...
I have been poor, unable to pay my bills, lost my home and everything I owned and wasn't able to get decent care or testing because I wasn't insured and considered a pay risk. It took me several years and I have to work for a living even with Lyme for 30+ years. I have to live with family to make ends meet to pay my bills, and there was a time I did't even have THAT. I have an inalienable right to nothing but life, love, and the pursuit of happness. When the constituion was written, churches and families took care of their sick, not the government. And there was a reason for that. Because they KNEW what a mess it would make!
However, I still would not change our capitalistic health care for socialism. Our system is broke, for sure. But it could be worse.
Like, the govenment could be telling me what I need, rather than me having the freedom to choose!!! AND, the government would have access to my medical records, my personal business. Cops probably wouldn't need a warrant to get your medical and psychological background if you were being investigated. Is this what we want? No, thanks.
As an American, I may have to pay for it, but I still get to choose, and I will continue to vote for and fight for my right to do so.
We HAVE goverment help for those folks who are sick, retired, or disabled and need care. We have something in this country called SSI. We also have Medicare and Medicade. What, you say? They are broken? They are a joke?
What in the WORLD makes you think they will do a better job with healthcare for EVERYONE? Its a disaster waiting to happen. I love my country, but I am not foolish enough to think that this country could financially support or intellectually support universal healthcare!!
Come on now...name me ONE health centered government project or program that works for the patient. And I'll consider opening my mind.
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Somebody on another site that I don't have permission to quote mentioned that the Israelis have a health care system that's sort of a blend of the two and might be useful to us.
I know nothing about it...does anybody?? If so could you post about it??
It would be nice to hear suggestions rather than the same old crying jags...
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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Michelle M
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7200
posted
Ever notice that the most vociferous opponents of universal healthcare are people who already have insurance?
I cannot even get insurance due to medical records referencing MS and lyme.
However, even when I had insurance, I had empathy for those who do not.
And I have worked my entire life except for a 90-day maternity leave.
There are many middle class Americans in the same situation.
Fortunately, recent polls indicate universal healthcare is not some weird fringe idea, but something desired by more than half the population.
posted
Only problem with socialized med would be that we would not get treated.
1. We would not get tested properly (because a quest diagnostic test in our govt's eyes are just as good as an IgenX test)
2. Govt aproved treatment is 30 days doxy... which for most of us is not enough.
Your government is not going to pay for something it feels is not proper treatment.
for us, That means slow painful death by Lyme Disease and any other tickborn illness.
Socialized Med would kill us, and is not the answer.
We need to look at shades of grey. Fixing the system, not doing the total opocite of what we have now. There is more than one way to fix this. Completely socializing it is only going to make things worse.
Our public school system is the biggest joke I have ever seen. If the govt can not teach a person to write in complete sentences by graduation of highschool, they should not be put in charge of our health!
RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 380
posted
quote:Originally posted by Skyler: Our public school system is the biggest joke I have ever seen. If the govt can not teach a person to write in complete sentences by graduation of highschool, they should not be put in charge of our health!
this is so true but on the other hand someone sick should get treatment and not turned away.
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
I ask for some info about the Israeli model of national health care and all people want to do is keep this emotional catharsis going.
could we do nuts and bolts please and quit pretending to know how other people 'feeeeel' about things???
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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SunRa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3559
posted
quote:Originally posted by charlie: I ask for some info about the Israeli model of national health care and all people want to do is keep this emotional catharsis going.
could we do nuts and bolts please and quit pretending to know how other people 'feeeeel' about things???
Charlie
yes, Israel has a unique universal coverage plan.
why not do a little research on it yourself and then post your findings rather than use your time to berate people on here?
I dunno..that's just what I FEEL.
Posts: 1563 | From MA | Registered: Jan 2003
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