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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » as told by Dr. K. at his Lyme Seminar 1/06 (Page 1)

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Author Topic: as told by Dr. K. at his Lyme Seminar 1/06
GiGi
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Lyme Seminar 1/13/06

"Let me sort of clarify a couple of things at the beginning that may be helpful. One of the reasons why some of the more conventional medical types and universities are angry about us talking about Lyme Disease main reason they did not discover it first. The second reason has to do with the definition of what a disease is. Usually you have psoriasis thats a very circumscribed sort of picture; you look at somebody and they have that skin thing and, a yes, hes got psoriasis. Or somebody has hair loss you look at them it is a defined medical entity you kind of look at them and you can see it. If somebody has Parkinsons, they have the rigid gate and rigid facial expressions and have a tremor it is pretty narrow.

With Lyme Disease, those of us that have been into it longer than others, find there is no illness that Lyme Disease isnt part of or Lyme Disease can mimic or contribute to any illness that we know, including delayed healing of fractures, or hair loss for that matter, or bad eyesight. We have not found any illness where it is not involved. And therefore I have to site sort of with my more conventional colleagues -- to call it Lyme Disease, sort of makes it an oxymoron somehow, because it does not fulfill the criteria of a disease, of an illness. Are you with me on that? Lets try and give a little compassion to those people who have been violently attacking us all over the place for reasons that are kind of strange. What benefit are they going to have out of it. I mean, is there going to be an argument by vote does Lyme disease exist or not three people are against it and one is for it; does it mean it doesnt exist? Truth by vote or by expert opinion has never quite worked.

The same history we really had with heavy metal toxicity, when I started out looking at heavy metals as an issue in illness, in almost all illnesses. The same problem was then it was not one illness that was created by heavy metal toxicity, but was contributing or causing all of the known illnesses that we have and therefore because there was not one disease entity, I was viciously attacked in the 80s and early 90s for making the diagnosis of heavy metal toxicity on people. And many of the people that were attacking at the time, are now diagnosing it every day and treating people and have known it all along that it is a big problem.

So there is this evolution in medicine going on that moves a little bit away from looking at one cause, causing one particular symptom picture, rather than looking at, when it comes to toxicity issue, that a toxin can work in such a fundamental deep level in our system that depending on certain cofactors, like your genetics, it can become the cause for everything. I can give you some examples:

Recently we have been testing our autistic children for Lyme Disease with the Western Blot test, the standard conventional test if you want. And all of them, not some of them, all of them were positive. A. was there to witness that. We tested our patients with Parkinsons Disease: not some of them, all of them were testing positive on the Western Blot. But I go further than that: all of our cancer patients we tested in the last year for Lyme Disease; sometimes we had to repeat the test 2-3 times, all of them were positive on the Western Blot test.

So I understand the trouble the conventional community has with this that you are finding one microbe being involved in so many illnesses that then half the people say, well, then it means this microbe is just coincidental and doesnt have to do anything with it. Thats the one camp. And the other half of the more conventional people says well, if you find this microbe positive in all these illnesses, that means the testing must be invalid. That is the other half of the conventional camp.

So in this field, to find our way this that, has been adventure to say the least, and I am most grateful in this field to my original mentor in this work, that was Chris H., who is here Chris show yourself. Chris and I worked together, we shared an office in 1992 and he was basically making the diagnosis he was doing dental surgeries on people that had infections in the jawbone and he was making the diagnosis of Lyme Disease in 1992 very, very frequently, two of three people I would say. At the time there was no decent lab work available at all. He was using muscle testing, just as I do for most of my diagnosing before we confirm it with a conventional test, I kind of initially suspected that it cant be.

I went through the same learning curve as the conventional medical community goes through now. I was first angry at him, then I was denying it, and I was trying to prove him wrong, and then I said to all my patients well, I have known this all along. Laughter. I had the same arrogance and the same resistance to it. And it was really one of my patients, Gudrun here, who sits up here in front, who is also German, and she could see through my German arrogance very quickly and kind of said Dietrich, come and sit down I have got to talk to you. And she gave me the lowdown on Lyme Disease and her experience with it on the medical institutions, how they first of all failed to recognize what her illness was and then recognized it, treated it, treated it inappropriately, too short, too low doses, etc.

When I went to medical school, one of the main things when you treat an infection with antibiotics, the teaching is you treat it hard with a high dose and with the right antibiotic that matches the illness. What we see with the Universities do with Lyme Disease, they are treating it with low doses, with the wrong antibiotic to start with, entraining the bugs that they become so resistant that later on when you actually get to use the right treatment, you have to use astronomical doses for astronomical amounts of time to undo the damage. I remember, it was only five years ago four years ago USA Today on the front page John Hopkins found a cure for Lyme Disease take 2 capsules of Doxy at night, and next morning you are cured. Front page thick new discovery less than five years ago. Lets kind of be aware that this has been a thorny walk, but thanks to Christ I have been having an eye on this since 1992.

Which is kind of funny I did a residency in Neurology short I didnt stay there, because the professor who was my teacher there was an old Nazi and I just couldnt tolerate the environment. But he was making the diagnosis of Lyme Disease in 1973, consistently, on the people where we lived, in Freiburg in Germany, in the Black Forest, which turns out to be one of the most endemic areas for Babesia and Lyme Disease.
I pretty much lost my Mom when I was eleven, because she became very severely ill, she couldnt get out of bed, for years, had several bouts with having to be institutionalized for psychiatric bursts or various things, and she was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in the early eighties, long before it was really known here. She was successfully treated with IV antibiotics and never had a psychotic episode again. So I had some contact with this all along, long before most of you did. Now sort of looking back, before I show you some of the more formal stuff, my feeling is this:

We know there are eight different genus of borrelia, and I will go into that later. Borrelia burgdorferi is just one sub-grouping in there. We are suspecting and there is good evidence that spirochetes have been causing human disease for at least 30,000 years. So this is not a new illness. And many of the symptoms of premature aging, that we always assumed were age related, like when you get cataracts, different eye disorders, become myopic, or many of the cancers, or many of the osteoporoses, we find very very often being a cause by Lyme Disease. I will go into that later the collagen breakdown and how that all works.

A couple of my colleagues and me believe that this illness has been with us forever. However, what is new is the aggressive behavior of the bugs. They have not behaved like this. They are getting increasingly aggressive in the way they are causing symptoms in us that is new. I hope that by the end of this meeting, you will get an idea why this is --- it has to do with the synergistic cofactors, other toxins that are increasingly displacing our human potential, increasingly filled up with toxic material, and in that milieu change that we have, the microbes have changed their behavior. They used to be very synergistic in our system, in a probably beneficial way. One of the speakers I wish I had here this weekend is Gitte Jensen. Some of you may know here. She is a microbiologist, very, very high level, in Oregon, has her own lab. But she was at Mc University in Canada. She basically found out that there is a constant exchange of DNA going on between human cells and microbes. That the human being organism is constantly evolving, a constant inter-exchange, is not separate from our microbial environment. And that the microbes that are in us are constantly communicating with out DNA and exchangeing forth and back with us. The microbes are trying to establish that we become a comfortable host, but also that we live as long as healthy as possible, because they are also benefiting from that.

That in Lyme Disease, things certainly have gone wrong. The symbiotic arrangement has gone wrong. We want to look at some of these causes why that is. The interesting thing that I like to give you at the beginning that at the end of this seminar you are sort of coming back to, that everything we have done in alternative medicine over the last thirty years is valid. The only thing that changes is that the focus is a little more on the microbes in us than it was. But the same homeopathics work for Lyme Disease that always worked before we named it Lyme Disease; the same herbs and vitamins work that we have always given without knowing that we are actually treating Lyme Disease. The same acupuncture points work that always worked. We are coming back to all that, but having in mind that we actually are treating a microbial illness and the outcome of it in the body.

By changing the focus in treatment just a little bit and including the microbes and our immune system response to it, we have made great great progress in being able to help a lot of people, and I hope I am going to be able to bring it across here.

To give you a little introduction I am going to steel a little bit of knowledge from my friend, Dr. C, he gave me last year. This picture. Just a bit about recent discovery of Borrelia burgdorferi. (Dr. K. goes into detail of the 300 different borrelia types.)

Explains picture: This is a White Cell being attacked by spirochetes. Now whats wrong with the picture? Whats wrong with the picture is that it is usually the other way around: that the White Cells are attacking the spirochetes. Not the spirochetes attacking the White Cells. Really this picture captures the core of what this group of illnesses is about. They are going after our immune system first, and immobilize it. And then everything is possible. It not unlike AIDS. In AIDS we experience that first.
Remember this, this is different from any other illness that we know. Usually, in illnesses you see the White Cells looking for bugs. This is the bugs looking for the White Cell. Does this White Cell have a chance to fight them? The picture is very similar it reminds me, in Africa, sometimes you see a pack of dogs hunting down a lion, killing a lion; if you have one lion and one dog, the dog doesnt have a chance. But if you got 50 dogs and one lion, the lion doesnt stand a chance. That is what is happening with Lyme Disease.

This picture (one White Cell surrounded by many spirochetes) really expresses everything about it. In this illness we cannot count on the immune system to recover on its own. All these techniques that we have to stimulate the immune system.What do you want to stimulate here??????..... You cant give this guy coffee or whatever stimulates you can give to this White Cell ---- is not going to succeed in killing the bugs around it. The numbers are overwhelming. And so this is the illness where we need to kind of come in with some antimicrobial agents, whether plant based (as later) or man-made. But immune-stimulant therapies are a joke. It is not going to work.

I am not going to go into the transmissions, etc. with the ticks. I will show you later that fleas, biting flys, mosquitos, all the stinging insects transfer Lyme Disease. What is unique with the ticks --- there is only one unique thing about them ---- that in the tick saliva that are a lot of incredible factors that help the Lyme spirochete to propagate themselves for the first few days and set up the housekeeping in the body very quickly.
So a tick bite is highly highly tansmissive for these infections, whereas a mosquito bite, even though they are full of the same bugs is less transmissive. That means you need probably three or four mosquito bites instead of one tick bite.

The question right now is not anymore have you ever been bitten by a tick. The question is is it possible you were ever bitten by a mosquito? Laughter.
I will show you the evidence for that.

Sexual intercourse we know now is high transmissive of the Lyme spirochete. In fact, I have a number of patients they report an interesting symptom: They make love to their wife and for the next two days their urethra burns. The bugs sense when you make love and they are accumulating in the urethra for their chance of propagating themselves and infecting another person. They are highly highly intelligent. That is proven. I am not making this up. The bugs sense whenever there is a possibility of propagating somewhere else thats where they accumulate. If you have that symptom, for me it has become diagnostic, when somebody reports it. Men sense that more because their urethra is a little longer and smaller; people have recurrent herpes outbreaks (genital herpes outbreaks) thats one of the tell-tale signs because the immune system is locally surpressed in the area from the Lyme spirochete and the toxins they are giving off.

Unfortunately, transplacental transfer is now proven. We had a very tragic case of a woman, she gave birth to four or five babies. All of them were born healthy; all of them developed seizures within the first hour of life and died within the first six months of life. Except one. And in that one child, I accompanied the pregnancy and treated here completely coincidentally with various courses of antibiotics for other reasons (I thought other reasons) and that child came out healthy. Now we did the Western Blot test on her and she was highly positive on Lyme Disease and so is her husband. No symptoms whatsoever, but the only symptom there was losing the babies, very tragically , healthy born babies, but they were metabolically damaged nobody could figure it out, including myself. They died young. You have to be aware of that --- if you accompany pregnancies as a physician, it is no longer allowed not to look at Lyme Disease. You need to know if your pregnant Mom I just got through with another pregnancy, a friend of mine from Canada, she was positive for Lyme Disease. And we put her on the herbal treatment, ignoring all the herbal rules; we put her on PC-Samento which is not allowed during pregnancy; we put her on PC -Noni which is not allowed during pregnancy ----- nothing is allowed during pregnancy, but if you dont treat it, you have a crippled child, or a crippled adult if it makes it into adulthood. The herbal treatments have turned out to be extremely safe, the herbal treatments that I am recommending, and have worked beautifully in accompanying the pregnancy.

In Germany, I have a large indirect practice there over a thousand physicians who follow my guidance and so my experience that I am sharing is not just based on what I do here, but is based on the feedback I am getting from a large group of practitioners. So just kind of be aware of that it is not a one-man show that I am representing here.

Unpasteurized milk. Thats a big one. Because pasteurizing milk makes it almost undigestible for most of us and not pasteurizing it is ---- from all the cows that we ever tested they were infected with Lyme Disease. You are not going to find a single cow in the US without having Ehrlichiosis, Babesia and Lyme Disease. I tested through a friend, a vet, many cows. He could not find a single one that is not infected. So cows milk has Lyme Disease in it. If you pasteurize it, most of the Lyme bugs die, not all of them, some of them in cysts, and you get the Lyme cysts and they survive into you.

Breast feeding is another big one. If you have a Mom with Lyme Disease and she is breastfeeding. I have stopped a few Moms from breastfeeding. I know it is an unpopular thought. We are checking two things in breastmilk. We are checking PBDEs thats a chemical from flame retardant thats now in all breastmilk. Breastmilk is fat, FDA study on it that shows in general American breastmilk is now so toxic that you are not allowed to flush it down the toilet. If you want to dispose of it, it has to be disposed of in a special landfill when you take the toxic criteria of breastmilk of the general established criteria for it. The PBDEs we are checking for that with a lab in Texas..its a little bit difficult because it needs to be in a glass container, the early milk that shows it the best, you send it in.. Unfortunately we find it in most women in high levels.

You need to also be aware that when Mom has Lyme Disease and toxic milk for other reasons, it may be a good idea not to breastfeed. I am taking that position today, I may change it again. But just the general push that breastfeeding is better than not breastfeeding is just not true anymore from a scientific point of view. It was a complete lie in the sixties, when we told women to not breastfeed. But today, breastmilk is mostly fat and fat accumulates fat soluble toxins, and so breastmilk has become a dangerous item and it is a very, very difficult decision to make. We had a baby two years ago, of course we breastfed, and we found that you can completely clean up the breastmilk from the environmental toxins by giving Mom a high dose of chlorella. That is something we have shown. In fact, the breastmilk turns green if you give Mom a lot of chlorella. Breastmilk gets a greenish shine to it showing that the chlorella does end up in the greastmilk. We did a couple of breastmilks and could show that it completely removes the known toxins from it --- which is a wonderful discovery. But we also know that Lyme Disease is passed on and its not every day; it follows the lunar cycle, so every time the full moon comes, your Lyme cysts and spirochetes are transmitted to the breastmilk and into the fetus and we know that most babies handle it well. Most babies are asymptomatic until high up into their teens before the symptoms start. But they may start earlier and earlier because of the co-toxicity from other issues.

Lyme spirochetes form cysts when they are in danger or when they are outside the body and these cysts can be exposed to open flames, open fire, they will survive that. There is no known way of killing Lyme cysts. I think that is a very important pearl for you, because when we treat people with antibiotics or any other treatments we cannot sterilize the body. We canmot eradicate the bugs from the body once they establish themselves. We can push it back from time to time. We can try to create a more harmonious relationship with them, but we cannot get rid of them. Even incinerating your body does not get rid of the Lyme Disease in it. So what else do you want to do to try to get rid of it?

Picture. This is a very nice thing Dr. C did for us. Dr. C is a great physician in Dallas. Wonderful doctor. He is the guy that I recommend overthere. Here is the link to MS and polyneuropathies. Also brain tumors. I have seen one child that was about a year ago brain tumor with a little psychological stuff - he lost his mom when he was two years old it was very tragic. We did a test for Lyme Disease and sure enough it was positive on Western Blot. There is a high relationship, with children especially, with brain tumors. I talked to B. and older guys that do wonderful work for brain tumors, they never heard of Lyme Disease. Yet in Germany every child I tested in the last few years, the brain tumors, about 20-30 of them. I would say 90% of them or so tested positive for Lyme, on the first try, with using the Western Blot. A huge relationship.

MS relationship. Most of you here are already touched by that or know that. On the first round of testing, when you do one Western Blot test, about 66% of people with MS test positive for Borrelia. And when you repeat the test often enough you find it in everyone with MS. Am I saying that MS is caused by Lyme disease? ----- you make up your own mind on that one.

Usually, we know a couple of patterns now: MS is Lyme Disease plus Herpes Type 8.
ALS is Lyme Disease plus Mycoplasma plus two or three other things, usually Bartonella is in there, Bartonella, Borrelia, Mycoplasma.

It will come down in a few years just to a question of symptoms, you get two bugs here and one there, and maybe a little bit of arsenic and a little bit of mercury, you get this illness --- always against the genetic background of the person. But you can kind of always establish a biological mathematics now, with the different illnesses and different toxins, put them together and you will create a certain ..of illnesses. We are close to that.

I loved it when a few weeks ago, the Australian guy got the Nobel Prize for discovering that stomach ulcers are caused by H-Pylori: I was teaching in the eighties in Australia and I was just there after he had done his first publication on it I was just there teaching at the University of Sidney teaching Prolo-Therapy when I heard about this weird guy and he just had lost his license. It was not at all mentioned when he got the Nobel Prize but this guy actually lost his license for discovering that stomach ulcers are caused by H-Pylori ---- then a year later it was reinstalled when some friend at the University repeated the study just to redeem his license he just wanted to help him, he didnt care about the H-Pylori he just wanted to help his friend he confirmed the results, because of that he got his license back, and now he got the Nobel Prize for it. I thought this was great. That really showed that the Nobel people in Sweden - they are good people, they know the trend in politics and know who to support a little bit.

Here is a big one: Schizophrenia, anorexia and dementia. I had a last time I was in Europe in October-November, I had four young girls that were brought to me with anorexia, all of them with the muscle testing (ART) tested positive for Lyme Disease. All of them are now confirmed with a simple MELISA test being positive for Lyme Disease, and all of them are already (two months) are already responding to IV antibiotics with dramatic improvement. Zinc has to be added to that cocktail. Zinc and abx is a treatment of anorexia. I think it is going to take another 100 years in this country to get that idea across.

We had a young man in Europe that beautiful with episodes of schizophrenia. About three years ago we diagnosed him with Lyme Disease. We put him on my treatment for schizophrenia which is high doses of niacin, Abraham Hoffers treatment or Linus Pauling or all together . High doses of niacin is a wonderful antibiotic for Lyme Disease and then we put him on Vitam C and Salt treatment some of you have heard about in addition to that. He never had that episode again he had like an episode every three four months, had to be hospitalized, and he is now three years schizophrenia-free.

That is very very hard. Schizophrenias that come on in late teens, early twenties, are very hard to treat or used to be very hard to treat before we knew there is an infection involved. Usually, localized deposits of mercury and viral infections in the brain are a big part of that.

(A participant brought up schizo in a relative that was treated successfully with antiparasitics). There is a parasitologist in Mexico City, Hilda Hildalgo, she is sort of the main parasitologist for all of the Southamerican countries In fact she is in charge of the doctors that treat 800 million people. So not a small Supposedly since yesterday we have 300 million people here. Hilda found that many cases of schizo are caused by parasite larvae in the brain and actually developed a special modification of the functional MRI where she can often show those areas in the brain. She turned me on to the idea of treating these often young people with Alinia. In other countries called Daxon. A nitro compound. A nitro version of an anilin dye that is the only anti-parasitic that crosses the blood brain barrier very easily. It can clear especially in teenagers that have the erratic psychotic outbreaks ------ always suspect parasites in their brain.
Of course to do the treatment bioenergetically, you have to know a lot more. Anyone can write a prescription. But to treat it more elegantly with EAV or kinesiology based, you have to know a little bit more.

Chronic Fatique I dont think we have ever seen an exception to it that did not have a Western Blot confirmed Lyme Disease, rare. Same with Fibromyalgia. Parkinson I already mentioned. Most MS and ALS you will find Borrelia in the CSF. Here an interesting one: there are only 24% of Lyme Disease patients have arthritis. So arthritis was the original symptom that triggered the search for the bugs in this country and the modern discovery of Borrelia burgdorferi started with a bunch of arthritic kids in Lyme, Conn. Therefore, falsely, it has been associated in the minds of many physicians --- if you dont have arthritis, you cant have Lyme Disease. But its actually only 24-25% of people that have any arthritic symptoms. Go into detail later. Sarcoidosis, I will go into later with the Marshall protocol To say out front, the Marshall protocol has been largely disappointing it is not the cure that we were hoping it would be. We have one patient that actually was diagnosed with Sarcoidosis before we had him, and he is actually doing very well on it. So it does work for Sarcoidosis, but it works very rarely for Lyme patients. More later.

Lyme Carditis is a very, very serious condition. In fact, a few months ago we lost one of our patients. I had seen her only once. A young woman, late twenties, who already had the diagnosis of Lyme Carditis. Cardiac arrest. End. Do not take Lyme Carditis lightly. I was not aware of .. she was clinically presenting a mild case, but with some cardiac symptoms, and I certainly took that too lightly. We recommend --- So if you have a patient with cardiac symptoms, first of all, no matter what age group they are in, always suspect Lyme Disease as a part of the picture. It can cause anything it starts with the rhythm, problems with the heart, the different episodes of arrhythmia, irregular heartbeat, all the way to angina, or true involvement of the heart cardiac muscle. We know there is a tremendous synergistic effect with heavy metal toxicity. We know people with cardiopmyopathy that had an elevation of mercury in the heart muscle of
22,000 times higher than normal. These are young people, athletes, that have developed cardiac arrhythmias and were diagnosed with cardiac myopathy, their heart is dilated;
Italian researchers did biopsies on the heart (mentions name) she found an average of 22,000 times mercury in the heart muscles. Average. If these people get Lyme Disease, they get dramatically symptomatic and have need to be treated radically and quickly with everything that we know in order to get them through.

References are here if you need them. Unfortunately early reports on Lyme Disease were that it doesnt cause any fetal trouble. Now reports are coming in, pouring in from every country that most of the pregnancy problems that we have known about seem to be caused or aggravated by Lyme Disease, by spirochetes in the system. Toxemia. We used to treat toxemia with magnesium --------life style changes. ----- We are coming back to this. We cannot treat Lyme Disease without doing all these things also. But by actually recognizing that there is an infection involved. We have a much better outcome in the pregnancies.

It takes on average about 24 months before Lyme Disease becomes neurological. We know it takes from a tick bite before spirochetes set up their housekeeping in the brain several hours. Even after a tick bite, thinking that you can treat someone for a week or two with a capsule or two of doxycycline, is a joke. Because doxy does not cross the blood brain barrier in a significant amount. The bugs that are in there within 3-4 hours after the tickbite, they are in the brain. But to actually become symptomatic with it, the brain fog, the memory problems, all the things the chronic neurological Lyme patient has, which is many of us here in the room, takes about two years for the first symptoms to appear. And then they sort of gradually over the years accelerate and then stabilize on a certain level and usually stay there.

The neurological form of Lyme Disease initially, in an objective way, we can show with a PET scan or Spect scan very early, especially circulatory problems in the fronto cortex as the first symptom. I had that for years without knowing what was going on through it was frontal sinsusitis; I learned everything about the sinuses there is to learn in the world and none of it worked. And then one of my practitioners in Germany, one of my students, tested me with the Lyme slide and said you got Lyme Disease in the frontal lobe, we need to treat this. She gave me a few injections and it cleared it up just like that. With some of the Heel remedies using some of the stuff that increases microcirculation in the brain. But I had it for years without knowing what the heck was going on.

There are really six expressions of Lyme Disease, I will get into later. Depending on your genetics in some people it goes into the joints, some people it goes into the connective tissue; other people its just affecting the immune system; with other people it is just affecting their neurology. It has six different routes it goes through. Other people have just a skin manifestation, and the main symptom there is premature aging of the skin. Some of you here know who you are, that you have that, but you have never put it in association with Lyme Disease ---- Lyme disease propagates itself in the system, it needs to break down the collagen. Its a collagen disease Lyme Disease lives in collagen, it feeds on collagen. Actually those of you who have been in my seminar on the Matrix Therapy, the main constituent of the connective tissue are called GAGS or Glucosaminoglycans; thats what Lyme spirochetes eat. They eat GAGS. They live off the G;lucosaminoglycans, off the matrix, the substance that maintains our skin, our muscle, our bone structure. They eat that. And it breaks down skin, it breaks down bones, osteoporosis, breaks down muscle. It looks like aging. It comes on fairly suddenly. Suddenly, within a year they look twice as old as you looked before. Thats Lyme Disease, how it behaves. Your immune system is holding it, holding it, holding it and finally crash."

** edited to remove doctor's name **

[ 01-24-2011, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

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Dawn in VA
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Whoa mama. Lots of info!

--------------------
(The ole disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.)

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dyna3495
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But wait...... there's more ....
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lululymemom
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Thanks for posting this. As informative as it is, I find it very disheartening to read. I feel much more discouraged now, after having read this information.

So much for cyst busters, and any question about sexual transmission. Babies contracting in utero not becoming symptomatic till early teens. It all appears quite devastating..

Do we really trust this information?

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IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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nybasketball212
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Some of this seems a little ridiculous. ALL autistic kids have Lyme? ALL Parkinsons patients tested positive for Lyme? ALL MS patients have lyme? I stopped reading after that.
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nybasketball212
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A study my doctor showed me, who is a well known Neurologist as well as my LLMD, pointed out that 1% of MS patients really only have Lyme.

The bigger concern is with those who have MS and then are infected with Lyme, accelerating the progression of the disease. MS is very real, and usually consists of a number of attacks with no symptoms inbetween until the progression stage of the disease is reached. This is very inconsistent with the progression of Lyme.

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stork
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the prevalence of lyme cysts in milk seems interesting to me as well. surely almost the entire us population would be infected then, which it isn't.

--------------------
long road since 2010
abx got me over the hump
diet, detox, and herbs have got me to heal

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jl123
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Smart he is. But is Dr K an absolute authority on Lyme, please no. The way he speaks so authoritatively so positively- as if his words are exactly right is as arrogant and stubborn as the masses of md's he correctly dismisses, ironic that.
What is especially ill-logical about DR K is his assertion that hes has put 900 people into lyme remission, so what about the other 10 or 20 or 30 thousand lyme patients he and his "followers" have treated who still have lyme which he cannot put into remission- most will get cancer and MS and ALS and every other severe killer maladay's, REALLY now, is he really seeing that, apparently NO he is not. Most of his patients ARE NOT SO QUICKLY DYING. He is exaggerating and generalizing to make his points and this is a dreadful way to speak with sick people. This man has whats called a- big mouth-. What we need is not these expensive speeches by know it ALL gurus, but real research from many many Lyme-docs as too their REAL RATES of healing from Lyme. WE need to learn how many patients come into offices with Lyme and how many get meaningful help and how many do not. As of now some say 50% or 60% or 70% of cases get put into remission and many say nothing at all, we need information we can USE not negative rhetoric! J

[ 01-24-2011, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: jl123 ]

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canefan17
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stork,

Are we really sure that millions upon millions upon millions AREN'T infected?

Maybe ones who don't show symptoms could simply have an immune system keeping the bacteria at bay?
(The case of my father - the only one in my family that doesn't share the rest of our symptoms)

I'm a congenital Lymie - but didn't come crashing down till I was 25.

So how was I able to function for 25 years with this bacteria?

Things that make me wonder.

Lyme is such a fascinating subject because it's so poorly researched and understood.

I work at a mom and pop health food store and we get a lot of questions about this or that. We get some really sick people.

And, almost every-time, I can't help but think - they have Lyme.

I'm not a "crazy" who runs around saying "everyone sick has Lyme!"

But to be honest - it doesn't seem too far fetched.


nybasketball,

Dr K is just sharing what he's witnessed in his practice. I think he's expressed his number to be around 4 out of 5 autistic children who walk through his door test positive for Lyme.

And why is it out of this world to conclude that Lyme could cause (Parkinson, MS, Autism, Alzheimers, fibromyalgia)
Each one of those "illnesses" has no known cause.


GiGi,

This is great. Thanks a ton.

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Tammy N.
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Gigi - thanks for posting. Always informative.
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glm1111
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Arthur Schopenhauer says it best:

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Blackstone
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Interesting, but I think there are some erroneous conclusions being made through giant leaps of logic. Some things listed here are contrary to what ILADS and other Lyme-literate physicians have found and I don't see a lot of supporting evidence.

If it was this easy to find Lyme everywhere, we wouldn't have this controversy. There being no way to defeat cystic forms has been demonstrated incorrect, through use of cyst busting antibiotics both synthetic and naturally occurring. The milk issue can't possibly be accurate, nor the sexual transmission rhetoric and both seem based on incorrect assumptions.

He's seeing Lyme everywhere and I'm not sure what kind of verified methodology he's using to make these assertions - the fact that he seems to be increasingly involved in "seminars", selling products and whatnot is not helpful. Nor is the use of diagnostic and treatment methodologies that are unproven and supposedly require the "faith" of patients like muscle testing, while charging exorbitant amounts to desperate people. If he really had access to completely new paradigms and understandings of medicine, then they should be given away for free as part of experimental trials demonstrating their effectiveness, not cost thousands and be limited to the "faithful" who have a lot of cash.

This is true of any "alternative" medicine. The only way to get alternative and experimental treatments into the mainstream is through scientific verification. Otherwise, rightly or wrongly everything will be considered bunk or hoax, and patients will miss out on whatever pearls of truth can be found in the mounds of feces that comprise "alternative" treatments today. I'd love to see homeopathy and controlled energy medicine for instance, verified as being effective in controlled trials or even well observed empiric studies, but it seems so many practitioners find any excuse as to why they shouldn't be held up to scientific inquiry.

I'm beginning to think Dr. K is heading "off the deep end" away from the benefit of patients and into the realm of hubris and a distorted view of Lyme.

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blinkie
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yes, thanks for posting this. Lots of good info in there.
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Energyman
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i agree 100% with blackstone.
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map1131
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Gigi, thank you so much for sharing. I bet you feel like his lab rat sometimes. You are so blessed in so many ways.

Lots of aha reading. Thanks for doing what you do.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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cleo
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With a seminar like this....it's no wonder that we are not taken seriously ugh
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lululymemom
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I totally agree with Blackstone.

Why no "controlled" studies?? Instead preying upon peoples fears rather than offering them any hope of resolution. I want to see those studies that show Lyme cysts in cows milk as a possible mode of transmission. Every single cow in the US has Lyme??

I wonder if his opinions have changed since 2006.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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sutherngrl
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I agree with Cleo.

I can't buy into the statement that ALL those with autism test positive, All those with Parkinsons, MS, etc. tested positive for LD.

No wonder they don't take us serious!

And also how do all of those ppl test positive, when its darn near impossible to get a positive Western Blot? I don't understand that. Does he mean that just one band showed up? Is that what he is calling positive?

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seekhelp
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SG, I wonder where he sends all his Lyme WB testing to? [Smile] Hmmmm..
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lululymemom
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quote:
Originally posted by onbam:
Apparently, in the 90', whole herds of cattle were being infected as cows were sticking their noses in each other's urine streams. This prompted studies on the contact transmission of Bb.

So either they don't talk about that anymore, or they took care of it with vaccination.

If this were true, the cyst form of Lyme would not just be in the milk, it would also be in the flesh of the animal as well. Therefore, anyone eating beef would subject themselves to Lyme spirochetes. Even processing the meat and cooking it would not eliminate the cysts according the Dr. K.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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sutherngrl
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Lululymemom, I thought the spirochetes could not withstand high temps. Everyone talks about how a high enough fever for long enough will kill the ketes. Therefore cooking the meat would kill the ketes.

Good question Seek! Makes you wonder!

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momlyme
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Awesome! Love every bit of information this man makes available for us! I wish I lived closer to him.

For a minute, I thought I had posted this on the wrong thread since the transcript had disappeared amongst all the comments.

As I look at my family's ailments... I tend to believe the good doctor K. Sadly, lyme is under diagnosed and attributed to diseases with no cause a no cure more often than not.

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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lululymemom
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SG, Exactly my point. I disagree with Dr. K's theory on this.

Quote"Lyme spirochetes form cysts when they are in danger or when they are outside the body and these cysts can be exposed to open flames, open fire, they will survive that. There is no known way of killing Lyme cysts."

Consider the implications of this statement.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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JunkYardWily
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quote:
Originally posted by canefan17:
I'm a congenital Lymie - but didn't come crashing down till I was 25.

just curious, how do you know you had lyme since birth?

--------------------
sick since 9-09
igg, 18,23,41 reactive
igm, 41 reactive

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Blackstone
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onbam - With regards to human-to-human transmission, I looked through what has been cited and I can't say the methodology is sufficient to make that statement that sexual or even casual transmission is possible. All the theories seem to go back to either studies of other spirochetes, animal studies with a number of vulnerabilities or antibody issues. The first two are easy enough to discount but it is the last one that "looks" legit enough at first glance and gets people in a panic.

One of the MAJOR disadvantages we have in Lyme is that it is nearly impossible with current, standard testing to actually detect an antigen - that is to say, DNA traces (or a culture of the organism itself) that the organism is actually present. The Western Blot even done to IgeneX standards is an Antibody test - it is measuring your body's reaction to the organism, not the organism itself. Combine that with often having to make a clinical diagnosis and we have a difficult time evaluating progress. We can say "We believe you had Lyme at one time" but we don't have a viable test to say "Okay, its all gone". Just because antibodies are present, doesn't mean infection is. In addition, even when there are antibodies and infectious pathogens actually present in some cases, they're not contagious!

Take for instance the Epstine-Barr virus. EBV, the causative agent of "Mono" is present in about 90% of people in society. Its a herpetic virus that is typically pretty innocuous, you get it once, your body produces antibodies and you send the virus into dormancy. You'll have antibodies the rest of your life, but it is only transmissible in the acute phase. Even in the case that EBV reactivates (sometimes due to something like Lyme, or for another reason etc..) it isn't transmissible during that phase!

What I'm getting at here is that present antibodies doesn't necessarily mean pathogenic infection. The Lyme test that seems to spur the most interest in sexual transmission if I recall is one where there were several rodents in a cage and many of them converted to a positive WB despite no insect vector - they were exposed to waste, sexual secretions etc... of the other animal. However, if it is the test I'm thinking of the other animal showed no signs of illness when it would be expected - Lyme in the animal kingdom seems to present much more reliably. Yet people still believe this is enough evidence for sexual transmission.

We need better evaluation diagnostics in Lyme and VBD overall, but we can't fall in the trap of believing exposure is the same thing as infection. Many people will show antibodies to conditions they've never had or don't have any longer.

Contrast this with the fact that there are patients even here who report that they had barrier-free intercourse with their partners for years before knowing they had Lyme, and they never ailed. Many of them did not even come up positive on IgeneX. In my experience I've found more sexually-active couples where only one patient ills, compared to those where both do. Of course, even when both are infected (another issue attributed to sexual transmission without proper evidence), there is often highly suggestive arthropod vector - both partners walking outside, one or more having the EM rash etc...

Finally, if Lyme was so easily sexually transmitted wouldn't that be a perfect diagnostic? If we could use analysis of semen and vaginal fluid to detect the presence of the organism with any reliability it would make things much easier - but we can barely find it in the body to begin with, staying resident in tissue instead of fluids and in multiple forms. Hypothetically, even if it WAS sexually transmissible it would have to be at such a low rate or be completely nullified by any treatment at all - antibiotics would drive the organism to hide in cyst form and out of fluids (of course, cyst busters would kill it as well).

Given what I've read thus far, sexual transmission isn't proven. I'd like to see more research done with human subjects to hopefully close this case

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nybasketball212
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Now I understand why the medical community doesn't take Lyme seriously. Quacks like this guy and his "study and research" completely ruin it for the rest of us. It's too bad there's people out there like this.
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canefan17
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Ya, that's why [shake] ^^^
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seekhelp
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Blackstone makes a LOT of sense to me.
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Pinelady
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Thanks for posting. Dr. K is telling the truth. The borrelia proteins are only defined by what all else they are packing as they fold.

I hate to say this but this is what happened in Europe in 1986 when they had to start slaughtering 200million cattle. I studied it all, but very little was published medicine and is still not today---They knew enough about the protein to know to stop burning the carcasses...

I believe they gave the herds a vaccine that contained the protein

along with something very powerful

and it melded to cause catastropic illness.

Of course then they had no idea what they had done...But we know we had Nazi Germany's top researchers here working on ticks!

WE brought them here! Do you believe Hitlers top researcher had a love for Europe? He surely did not the other ethnic group.

I do believe this fold was once only found naturally, but when they conducted tick studies at Plum they genetically mutated it to now contain the Kuru/CJD/Scrappie/CWD/ protein.

This is Mad Cow--they just didn't know then how to stop it. Like us they could not find it--and depending on what all you are blessed with before and after the immune system shuts off is how the illness is related!

Autism--they have it, but are vaccines making it click on faster?

Alzheimers--they have it, but is it that their immune systems are better off than our for reasons yet undefined--such as they have not had the challenge of 70+ vaccines in their lifetimes?

MS--we know they have it, but is it only virus' that define it while severe MS is constantly adding more organisms every day the immune system is down?

I believe at Plum they were working on both--and we need this information now.

We are lucky to know it can be controlled and put into remission as long as you treat for everything it comes in contact with.

When it is in cyst form it cannot cause more damages unless it is released again/activated if you will by ???

Now we have a big job to do...

Make the Govt. fess us, for every tick vaccine they have allowed, put out to get the people help just as they have AIDS patients, and stop this madness in all syndromes of unknown origin.

Instead of being the sissys they are and not doing anything to protect the profits and ass--sets.

This is why they are playing so dumb, listed on another topic...So very many publishing we need a new Lyme vaccine...

They know there will never be another vaccine for Borrelia any more than there is for Syphilis..

And this is why they "Allowed" President Obama to Lead this nation. They knew the markets were crashing, they knew the people were very sick, and they knew we were broke!

And this is also why the voted for and approved a fake food bill...To get any profits at all to be had in this mess...You think that new sticker they are putting on meat will change China's minds to not trade beef??? NO..There answer this month when pressured to trade was-"We will consider it."

And we The People that know have been charged by humanity with this duty.

[ 01-24-2011, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Pinelady ]

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Pinelady
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Gigi is this published yet? Weblink?

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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kidsgotlyme
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Thank you Gigi. Very informative.

--------------------
symptoms since 1993 that I can remember. 9/2018 diagnosed with Borellia, Babesia Duncani, and Bartonella Hensalae thru DNA Connections.

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Pinelady
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I'm with you. I think the keys may be in those animals we know carry it but don't get infected.

Like possums have been shown to and rabies in coons.

Every living thing had an enemy that will eat you if you let them. We must find their enemy to seek and destroy.

Unless---they did genetically alter syphilis with Kuru. And then I don't think they are smart enough to figure that fix.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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djf2005
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NY you are strongly opinionated for someone who hasn't been around here for that long. You could not be more wrong in your statements. VERY uneducated. 3-4 years down the road when you reach the mid way of your journey (if you are truly very ill) you will realize the error of your words.

2nd- why do you all look for the points to disagree with, rather than take away from all the great points?

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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nybasketball212
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djf-
To state that I am "very uneducated" is simply inaccurate. If you agree with the statement that ALL MS patients have Lyme, ALL autistic kids have Lyme, etc., then that is really ashame.

If that's the case, I'm sorry that the level of your education does not allow you to filter out the obvious false claims of some. You cannot simply just believe everything you read, especially with something as terrible as the claims above by this "Dr. K." He is not a neurologist, therefore is very limited in his knowledge of MS.

If I'm in need of anymore of your commentary I will be sure to let you know

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lululymemom
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In defense of those of us who "haven't been around that long" it really doesn't mean we are any less educated or haven't suffered as long as any of the oldies on this forum.

I really wish I could take away something positive from what Dr. K. has stated at that seminar, but I really can't.

For someone new to log in and read this information for the first time, would be frankly quite devastating and considering mental health is so important to healing I find this very contradictory.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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canefan17
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nybasketball,

Sadly neurologists have studied autism for years and years and continue to come to the same dead end roads.

Dr K treats autistic kids with his Lyme treatments and they get better.


To each his own I guess.

But to knock Dr K for thinking outside the box is like knocking Dr Burrascano back in the 80's because he's a "quack" - right?

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nybasketball212
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I don't doubt that some of them got better. Probably about 1 in 100 which is about how many MS patients actually have lyme. But ALL of them? How absurd..
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canefan17
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nybasketball,

How hypocritical of you to throw out your own number (1 in 100 MS patients have Lyme)

And this is based on what?

*Food for thought* - how many of us tested negative on our first western blot? Were we one of the 99 that didn't really have Lyme?


PS: When it comes to autism - Dr K goes WAY beyond Lyme (think heavy metals, chemicals, EMF, etc)

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Pinelady
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nybasketball, if you do as all Lyme patients must do, control virus', get rid of all parasites, and kill all organisms that meld with borrelia you will get better, while at the same time doing what you can to boost the immune system to prevent relapse.

The fact they have denied there were even anything wrong with soooo many without being able to find the cause, is alone proof what he says is true.

But your right--we have many organisms they are now looking at with the same problems---no tests that work.

Leptospiro and T.cruzi..for which they have approved a blood test for pooled supplies..

We'll see how that flies...Would you like for me to tell you how its going?

No because you wouldn't believe it...

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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nybasketball212
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Less than 1% is the number of MS patients who actually have Lyme according to a fairly recent study shown to me by my LLMD, who is also a very well known board certified neurologist.

He specializes in Lyme and its relation to MS and other neurological disorders. He has won a ton of awards and is one of if not the most knowledgable doctors about this in the country.

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Pinelady
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Having MS and testing positive for Lyme is two different conversations.

Hey that's me! I have MS but now after challenging I have Lyme!

But they are the same thing.

The only difference is what it is hiding....

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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canefan17
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But again - what is the study based on?
Insufficient lab tests?

All I can say is keep an open mind.
And I'd be careful about knocking Docs that provide a wealth of knowledge to the Lyme community.

Your quote about "it's quacks like this as the reason mainstream medicine won't take us serious" is pure comedy.


Btw, what's the NY basketball? Did you hoop in NY in college?

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the3030club
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Sorry to be the skeptic. But i really believe that:

1. Dr. K is an absolute quack

2. You'd have to be either incredible naive or incredible desperate to buy into 90% of the things he says.

3. The amount of unsubstantiated claims made by this and other "doctors" and members of this website is jarring.

You want talk about activities that put LLMD's at risk? I'd say making claims like "lyme cysts are prevalent in milk" is going to make you look ridiculous in the eyes of anyone who has a little common sense, let along a background in medicine.

I've got an open mind. I'm on alternative therapy. But some people take it too far.


Blackstone put it perfectly, if you can't agree with what he's said you really need to evaluate you're perception of medicine, and reality.

God Bless.

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Pinelady
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If you can't agree with what he says you better do your research from the last 80's to now.

If you have not read the research evidence presented at the Tick Conference in Slovenia much of the same research that has been posted here, you should not make such absconded remarks.

We have far too few doctors who really know this disease as it as and you are placing doubt where doubt does not belong.

There can be no more doubt when we know this immortal protein now.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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nybasketball212
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Well put, 3030.
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BoxerMom
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Where did the remarks abscond to?

Are they with the immortal proteins?

--------------------
 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

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Pinelady
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You do know what Lipids are in breast milk don't you?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21246541
2010 Dec
Borrelia burgdorferi infection regulates CD1 expression in human cells and tissues via IL1-β

It may also help to see the finding of HIV found in breast milk.
http://tinyurl.com/5rm6oo4

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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seekhelp
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I certainly don't buy into many, many things I read here. For those that doubt, your point has been made. Saying it 10, 20, 50x doesn't make it more known. It's understood. What's the point seriously? Do you ever think you'll change the super alternative-minded individuals? Likewise, do you think they'll turn you into believers of all of Dr K's theories? Insults don't help anything.

What is an immortal protein?

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lululymemom
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If you buy into lyme cysts being in cow's milk, then you have to agree they would be in the beef as well. Why did Dr. K. ignore this very important fact. It therefore stands to reason that everyone who eats beef is subjecting themselves to lyme infection.

I have not heard of cows being vaccinated against lyme. Does this include the organic meat as well? If they have been vaccinated, is the public going to be okay with eating meat that has been vaccinated?

Surely, there must be someone here who has either worked on a cattle ranch or has some personal knowledge.

If this one fact is erroneous then we have to question everything that is being reported.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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the3030club
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quote:
Originally posted by lululymemom:
If this one fact is erroneous then we have to question everything that is being reported.

So let's see ...

Is it more likely that EVERY SINGLE cow is infected with Not just Lyme, but Erlichiosis and Bartonella.

or

This ONE guy is spouting nonsense.

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AlanaSuzanne
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Regarding this 06 presentation I am keeping an open mind like a lot of others here.

I do not think Dr. K is a quack, and it is downright shameful that people here are using this label. His work and insight on KPU has undoubtedly helped many people. He definitely thinks outside the box which is so sorely needed in medicine.

"Quack" ought to be reserved for the so-called medical professionals who summarily and arrogantly dismiss CLD as "post lyme syndrome" "depression" "all in your head" "you need a vacation" "I don't know what's wrong with you but it isn't LD"

At the beginning of this journey I read that the gut is 70% of the immune system. I thought that was ridiculous. I read about kinesiology and thought that was ridiculous. I read about gluten-free diets and thought that was ridiculous. There are many other examples I could use.

The bottom line is that the things I thought were ridiculous and unbelievable turned out to be at the very least worth a second look.

I quickly realized that I had so much more to learn and I continue to learn something new every single day about this damn disease and its coinfections.


nybasketball...

Your neuro might be well-known and board-certified and have won a ton of awards.

I've been to many, many doctors offices where awards are plastered all over the place. It means nothing to me when they haven't been able to help my family (despite mega $$$ out of pocket).

The people who have helped us the most are what I call "working-class" medical professionals. They haven't necessarily won accolades and awards. They are humble. They aren't in it for the money. They are in it because they want to make people better. (OK, major tangent here, I know).

What study did your neuro show you re: less than 1% of MS pts have LD? How were these pts tested? What lab? Were they evaluated by an LLMD? The 1% figure you cited is no more or less believable than what Dr. K cited.

3030...

Ouch---"unsubstantiated claims made by...members of this website is jarring"

Do you expect that we should all do clinical studies to prove our personal experiences?? Yikes.

I thought the point of us all posting was to share our experiences to help and support others. I have surely benefited from the experiences of and help from people here and I hope I can return the favor.

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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the3030club
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:
I certainly don't buy into many, many things I read here. For those that doubt, your point has been made. Saying it 10, 20, 50x doesn't make it more known. It's understood. What's the point seriously? Do you ever think you'll change the super alternative-minded individuals? Likewise, do you think they'll turn you into believers of all of Dr K's theories? Insults don't help anything.

You're right.

I think the medical section of the forum should be broken down into Conventional and Alternative.

Ouch---"unsubstantiated claims made by...members of this website is jarring"

quote:

Do you expect that we should all do clinical studies to prove our personal experiences?? Yikes.

That's not what i'm talking about. I've been pretty critical on here - but never in regard to ones personal experience.

Infact, i'm done talking about this. It's your time and money and you're more than entitled to spend it in any way you choose.

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Pinelady
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http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article

/S0306-9877%2806%2900275-1/abstract

Recon why they were and are being purged...You will have to put them together--something about parenthesis.

As for the vaccines--for over 10 yrs. they have been giving cattle a tick vaccine made from the saliva of ticks they now know carry over 120 different organisms.

Including Wolbachia-Dengue/
Coxiella-Q Fever/
Borrelia-MCIDS

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21211038

Scroll down---http://journals.cambridge.org/action

/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1298808

Commercial tick vaccines for cattle based on the Boophilus microplus Bm86 gut antigen have proven to be a feasible tick control method that offers a cost-effective, environmentally friendly alternative to the use of acaricides.

Commercial tick vaccines reduced tick infestations on cattle and the intensity of acaricide usage, as well as increasing animal production and reducing transmission of some tick-borne pathogens.

Although commercialization of tick vaccines has been difficult owing to previous constraints of antigen discovery, the expense of testing vaccines in cattle, and company restructuring, the success of these vaccines over the past decade has clearly demonstrated their potential as an improved method of tick control for cattle.

http://www.parasitesandvectors.com
/content/3/1/103
-----------------

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Pinelady
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21233200
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1933350/
-------------------
http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/gkp027#SEC5
The present studies extended characterization of the B. burgdorferi EbfC protein,

demonstrating that this small protein both specifically and nonspecifically binds DNA,

can bind DNA independently of context
and alters DNA conformation.
------------------
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/ScienceResearch/ucm238437.htm
Proof-of-concept Dual Vaccine against both Smallpox and Anthrax
www.fda.gov
You do know it was made with Cow Lymph.

I have more if you would like to see them. Most are posted here as well.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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AlanaSuzanne
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Well then what the heck are you referring to when you say that unsubstantiated claims made by members of this website are jarring??

IMO we all just posting based on our personal experiences and that should not be subject to biting criticism.

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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AlanaSuzanne
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pinelady, thank you for all the links you have provided in this thread and numerous others.

and thanks gigi for posting this info.

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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lululymemom
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So even with tick vaccines, they are still finding lyme cysts in the milk??

Quote "You are not going to find a single cow in the US without having Ehrlichiosis, Babesia and Lyme Disease".

This statment was made in 2006 just 5 years ago.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Pinelady
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lulu I am saying as they said--

Although commercialization of tick vaccines has been difficult

owing to previous constraints of antigen discovery,

the expense of testing vaccines in cattle, and company restructuring, the success of these vaccines over the past decade has clearly demonstrated their potential as an improved method of tick control for cattle.

Fact is they did not care then what they were capable of and now that we know they still don't care...

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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lululymemom
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pinelady:
[QB] http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article

/S0306-9877%2806%2900275-1/abstract


As for the vaccines--for over 10 yrs. they have been giving cattle a tick vaccine made from the saliva of ticks they now know carry over 120 different organisms.

Including Wolbachia-Dengue/
Coxiella-Q Fever/
Borrelia-MCIDS

I was referring to this statement. Is this not the borrelia that is being referred to here?

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Pinelady
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Yes they found Borrelia. But what is most alarming is they are capable of packing Dengue and Q fever as well and be asymptomatic..

Most likely because they are packing borrelia...Or they would fall like flies...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21211038

One hundred twenty-one bacterial genera were detected in all the life stages and tissues sampled.

The total number of genera identified by tick sample comprised: 53 in adult males, 61 in adult females, 11 in gut tissue, 7 in ovarian tissue, and 54 in the eggs.

Notable genera detected in the cattle tick include Wolbachia, Coxiella, and Borrelia.

The molecular approach applied in this study allowed us to assess the relative abundance of the microbiota associated with R. microplus.

------------------------
They changed the name---but its the same tick.
----------------
http://www.parasitesandvectors.com/content/3/1/103
Anti-tick vaccines are an alternative method for the control of R. microplus. Bm86-based vaccines represent the first generation of anti-tick vaccines to be commercialized [12].

Identifying new vaccine targets and anti-tick strategies for cattle would benefit greatly

from a further understanding of the molecular basis underlying tick-host interactions.
--------------------
Just what we need --another one....
--------------------
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1298808

A ten-year review of commercial vaccine performance for control of tick infestations on cattle

* Article author query
* fuente jdl [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
* almazn c [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
* canales m [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
* prez de la lastra jm [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
* kocan km [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
* willadsen p [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

Jos de la Fuentea1a2 c1, Consuelo Almazna3, Mario Canalesa2, Jos Manuel Prez de la Lastraa2, Katherine M. Kocana1 and Peter Willadsena4

a1 Center for Veterinary Health Sciences, Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK 74078-2007, USA

a2 Instituto de Investigacin en Recursos Cinegticos IREC (CSIC-UCLM-JCCM), Ronda de Toledo s/n, 13071 Ciudad Real, Spain

a3 Facultad de Medicina Veterinaria y Zootecnia, Universidad Autnoma de Tamaulipas, Km. 5 carretera Victoria-Mante, CP 87000 Cd. Victoria, Tamaulipas, Mexico

a4 CSIRO Livestock Industries, Queensland Bioscience Precinct, 306 Carmody Road, St. Lucia, QLD 4067, Australia

Abstract

Ticks are important ectoparasites of domestic and wild animals, and tick infestations economically impact cattle production worldwide. Control of cattle tick infestations has been primarily by application of acaricides which has resulted in selection of resistant ticks and environmental pollution. Herein we discuss data from tick vaccine application in Australia, Cuba, Mexico and other Latin American countries. Commercial tick vaccines for cattle based on the Boophilus microplus Bm86 gut antigen have proven to be a feasible tick control method that offers a cost-effective, environmentally friendly alternative to the use of acaricides. Commercial tick vaccines reduced tick infestations on cattle and the intensity of acaricide usage, as well as increasing animal production and reducing transmission of some tick-borne pathogens. Although commercialization of tick vaccines has been difficult owing to previous constraints of antigen discovery, the expense of testing vaccines in cattle, and company restructuring, the success of these vaccines over the past decade has clearly demonstrated their potential as an improved method of tick control for cattle. Development of improved vaccines in the future will be greatly enhanced by new and efficient molecular technologies for antigen discovery and the urgent need for a tick control method to reduce or replace the use of acaricides, especially in regions where extensive tick resistance has occurred.

(Received November 30 2006)

(Accepted January 29 2007)

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Pinelady
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Most people don't realize McD's gets most of their beef from AU....

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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lululymemom
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I'm not a scientist and alot of this information is over my head. From what I understand these ticks have now invaded our food chain and nobody is safe from infection. Especially anybody who consumes meat or dairy.

I'm not sure what to believe at this point.

I suppose it just confirms my belief in a vegetarian diet.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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canefan17
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When thinking about this thread blowing up...

All I can picture is GiGi walking into the imaginary Lymenet room and throwing us a bone and walking out

lol She's the puppet master

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Pinelady
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I'm still wondering who and why someone killed John Wheeler!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/10/wife-white-house-adviser-dead-burning-car/

Wife of White House Adviser Found Dead in Burning Car

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Pinelady
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Heres something else I think you should see. They are trying to pull the same stunts with this for profit...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212089
Results: The study enrolled 204 patients, 80 in the non-MS and MS stable groups and 44 patients in the MS exacerbation group. Overall, 27.0% of patients were colonized with S. aureus

with no significant differences identified between study groups.

Amongst individuals colonized with S. aureus, the prevalence of sea was significantly greater in the MS exacerbation versus non-MS study group (p < 0.05; odds ratio 7.9; 95% confidence interval 1.2-49.5). Conclusions: The ability to rapidly screen patients for the presence of S. aureus producing sera may serve as a useful marker of a potential MS exacerbation.
---------------
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20110107/IDSA-releases-MRSA-treatment-guidelines.aspx
--------------------
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/01/04/cid.ciq146.full Scroll down to parties interests reported...

Now what really happens if you have stealth in StaphA? Is it really MRSA? Or something hiding in MRSA? I'm not saying MRSA is not very serious, what I am saying is I believe there is a lot more to it than just resistance...

This is the same resistance for which they are building their hopes on a new Malaria vaccine/TB vaccine/HIV vaccine and if it is hiding stealth...They are taking the public and the Govt. for a very long ride....

If it takes as long as Lyme is taking to get the public help--we won't live that long....

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/171/1/18
January 10, 2011
Conclusions More than half of the current recommendations of the IDSA are based on level III evidence only.

Until more data from well-designed controlled clinical trials become available, physicians should remain cautious when using current guidelines as the sole source guiding patient care decisions.
---------------

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pinelady
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http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110114/full/news.2011.19.html

Is breast not best for babies?

New evidence contradicts World Health Organization breastfeeding advice.
----------------
Moveover Wakefield, companies coming...LOL

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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lululymemom
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I have always been a big advocate of breastfeeding but yet again, not according to Dr. K.

Quote "You need to also be aware that when Mom has Lyme Disease and toxic milk for other reasons, it may be a good idea not to breastfeed. I am taking that position today, I may change it again."

"Breastmilk is fat, FDA study on it that shows in general American breastmilk is now so toxic that you are not allowed to flush it down the toilet."

Even though, his own wife breastfed 2 years prior.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Camp Other
Unregistered


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Pinelady,

For those reading along who are either limited by time or illness so that they aren't going to look at every reference you have cited, could you please offer a summary of your position?

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Pinelady
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I believe everything Dr. K said is possible and most -- likely probable.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21257811
We identified 25 closely related B. burgdorferi strains using an rRNA gene intergenic spacer marker,

the majority (68%) of which had not been reported previously. ----These were not I.scapularis ticks!

This is more proof---the borrelia species is dependent on what it comes in contact with.

By watching them very closely they could avert a catastrophe.

But they have lied so long===

now that everyone is getting on board it is going to take a while to wake up the minds of those who don't want to believe.

I did not want to believe it either. And it took a while to sink in....I read everything I could get my hands on regarding the protein. And what happened in Europe.

I was scared to death, I was angry, I panicked, I cried. I even wrote researchers asking them to protect themselves on their travels because of their findings...

Now I have a even better understanding--that the worst patients have a lot more coming in contact with borrelia proteins...But one things for sure--we all need a lot better treatment--

Now I have work to do. The Autism epidemic is most likely being caused by live vaccines and other opportunistic organisms and they must get the word of what is happening...

Now it is not just Lyme patients we work to help---it is all syndromes of unknown origin who can be helped with this knowledge...

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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tick battler
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Well said AlanaSuzanne...the word "quack" should be reserved for those who truly are...it is shameful for those on this forum to use that word for anyone who is dedicating his life to healing lyme and autism.

Seek - Those who believe Dr. K are NOT necessarily the ultra alternative...rather I like the think we are the ones who think outside the box and look at EVERY angle to heal ourselves and our families (as Dr. K does)...I gave my 3 young children 2 years of abx (3 drugs at once per Dr. J) which ruined their guts...now I have been forced to move to the alternative route...to heal them from the meds as well as the lyme...and that is what ultimately got rid of their lyme/coinfections as far as we can tell right now.

My husband did 3 years of abx as well...now we are looking at other angles to get rid of his unrelenting headache and insomnia...guess what...he is sleeping somewhat better since we have been turning off his fuses at night...he's not healed yet...but this we think is a factor in his healing. And guess which LLMD told us about this angle? Dr. K.

For those who choose to stick to only abx...good luck to you... it may work and it may not. What will you do if it doesn't? Stop looking at options? You may be eating your words.

tickbattler

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canefan17
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^^^ What she said
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Lauralyme
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by lululymemom:


Even though, his own wife breastfed 2 years prior.


Lulu...she probably took chlorella.
It is possible to clean up breastmilk

--------------------
Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

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lululymemom
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Yes, you're right Lauralyme, she probably did take that. I just don't understand why he stopped some of his patients from breastfeeding if it's possible to clean it up.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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minerva
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the only issue i take with this is that where was this taken from? he has a lot published on his site as well as great DVD's i ve seen.

i am a little concerned with "re-printing" information one without consent and two having no idea what context it was written in... and we have no real idea that he said exactly what was printed.

i think it is great to share information ....we need it and i am not saying gigi's intent was bad but .....

when you are posting things as "the way it is" without the context the footnotes the permission it makes me question the validity of the information.

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seekhelp
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I think about this a lot and what baffles me is how any man/woman on the face of this Earth could really be as smart as we think Dr K is. I'm not saying for a second he may not be brilliant. He obviously has credentials.

What I mean is this guy is a proclaimed expert in damn near everything: heavy metals, Lyme, autism, morgellon's, EMF, methyl cycles, neuro issues, KPU/HPU, parasites, dental, and how much more? Do you realize it would literally take hundreds of years of experience to acquire this much? Even the smartest men in the world strive to become experts in their individual fields (i.e., parasitology).

In light of all this knowledge, he has managed to find time to develop his own ART system too! There's another on here much like Dr. K with knowledge. Her name is Marnie. She has posted endless excerpts of information on how to battle Borellia in the greatest level of detail.

This doctor has somehow become the end all be all on this forum many times for all of this. Tickbattler, I'm not disputing your comment for one minute that when Abx fails, we'll look for other means. I do right now in fact.

I just get the impression that whatever Dr K posts/says in whatever forum/seminar/book is taken as gospel. Questioning things doesn't make people naive or ignorant. Because conventional failed someone does not mean alternative won't as well.

I don't know what to make of it all....

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