Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Thanks for the detail as it's really important to understand protein's building blocks. Lyme patients' reactions to some of those can be quite different, though.
Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine
Each of these can cause far too much nervous system and adrenal system stimulation for many who deal with lyme. -------------
This information is especially for those with any degree of:
it is best to avoid these three particular amino acids (other than in normal doses from food or maybe in a balanced formula with other amino acids & other nutrients, but not above the average daily dose.
Even at that, some people need to avoid excess foods that contain one or both of those as they can be too stimulating for the brain when it's already overstimulated from neuro-toxicity issues.
with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
[Just beyond half-way down, see the section:]
Excerpts:
. . . GLUTAMATE IN NEUROLOGICAL DISEASES . . .
. . . In some neurological diseases, it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology.
This can occur, for example, if the rate of degradation of glutamate is slowed by an impairment of the enzymes that are involved.
Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS. . . .
. . . The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; at high enough levels, the nerves exposed to glutamate can be completely and permanently damaged, so that they are no longer capable of transmitting signals.
Thus, while glutamate is a major component of the body, and an essential part of the nervous system, high levels localized in the nerve cells can be quite toxic . . . .
. . . Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.
In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).
[poster's interjection: lyme also causes demyelination, what that is:
Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20). . . .
. . . The role of glutamate in neurological disorders has raised the question as to whether persons with such neurological diseases might have to be careful
not to get high levels of either glutamine or glutamate via their diet and/or by taking glutamine supplements. . . .
Food reactions can trigger epileptic seizures. The main culprits are the following foods that are rich in glutamate and aspartate, two very excitatory amino acids:
------ See list at link above -------
. . . and the entire article as it may not seem like it by the title as not all lyme patients experience seizures.
However, the content relates very much so to the neuro-excitatory problems seen so very often in lyme disease & heavy metal toxicity. -
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Glutamate is in all protein foods, MSG, and all the other stuff MSG hides as on food labels. Best solution: gluten-free, MSG-free, additive-free diet...and some may even need to eat low-protein...
I also wonder what role Lyme/Coinfecitons play in the increase glutamate in localized areas...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
- Razzle,
We still need a basic amount of glutamate, balanced in whole foods but, as the authors above state, the problem is that the degree of excess can be surprisingly low for those with neurological conditions.
I think, basically, the role excess glutamate plays with lyme is due to the fact that lyme is very toxic, connected to the NMDA hyper-excitatory situation - and excess glutamate can be like rocket fuel, blasting us to the moon.
-----------------
Dharmananda article above: "The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison."
-----------------
Magnesium balances Glutamate. And we all know how very important magnesium is to lyme patients. It helps calm glutamate, among other things.
Russell Blaylock, MD, explains this much better in his book and at his website: "The Taste that Kills"
It is not about lyme but it explains the neurotoxicity issues, and glutamate, in excess.
I also have some very serious concerns over "natural flavors" that are in so many foods. I think they can be very much akin to MSG. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTIONS
Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148
- by Anura V. Kurpad
Fifteen pages of text.
Excerpt from abstract on page one:
. . . In general, the amount of extra protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . .
[note: see what author states about lysine supplementation appearing to help immune function.] -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some report problems with endurance & muscle building. Details here can explain a few thing about all that:
Topic: Interesting link - doc with MS gets cured with diet
[Editing to add: later, it turns out, we found out that she also had minocycline, but it was not mentioned in the book, or that lecture (and other things) as part of her treatment plan.
This really matters, too, if there were any infection connections. Still, I have no doubt that the diet she outlines was / is a also a key component.]
Repair Damaged Mitochondria and Reduce Fatigue Up to 45%
- by Karen Lee Richards, August 6, 2010 -
[ 08-06-2014, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Sorry, I am a little confused.
Daughter and myself had some 'alternative' type testing done, came back saying we could both use supplement L-glutamine.
Now I'm quite worried about adding it.
Thoughts?
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Actually, after reading the link from the original poster (thank you, great link) sounds spot on for both of us.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- That "alternative testing" may not understand what lyme can do to a body and a brain. It just cannot take that into account.
Technically, glutamine / glutamic acid has some good properties. But lyme changes so much about the brain. So much.
We get some in food, anyway. You might start with those foods (see Wilson's article above) and see how it goes. -
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Keebler
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posted
- I have had horrible reactions to even tiny doses, at different times. Just horrible. It lowered the seizure threshold tremendously.
Lyme predisposes one to seizures, anyway and it's just best not to mess with anything that can lower the seizure threshold. Once seizures start, it can set off a long chain reaction over months and years.
Now some here do say they did fine with it. But, after reading all the articles above, my reaction makes sense.
I do not think it is good for anyone with the kind of over-stimulation that can occur with lyme.
Otherwise, just start low & slow. Tiny dose, gradually work to suggested dose. Back down if any sign of over-stimulation.
It can be balanced with magnesium. Be sure you have that on hand. Best in balance with all the amino acids, really. Charts showing best amounts should be consulted from several different sites to be sure they match up.
If for stomach trouble, DGL can be used instead. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- SixGoofyKids just posted this article that helps shine a lot of light:
posted
I agree with you Keebler there are things to avoid for certain people with tolerance issues and consult your doctor first on any supplements as directed on the supplements.
I don't think everyone is the same this is what works for me.. If it gets me into the gym or gives me a boost to get through my workouts I'm all for it..
I have GI issuers food intolerances and these don't bother my stomach.. They are natural substances found in meats.. I know that a vegan diet is ideal for lyme from what I have been told
If we were to follow everyone's lyme protocols and diet protocols we would surely starve.. I think ever individuals diet/treatment is based on that individuals needs.
All in all do what works for you everything in moderation if it makes you sick stop discontinue food supplements most importantly consult your doctor first..
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Keebler
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posted
- No, "boosting" with glutamine can be absolutely disaster for adrenals, heart and nerve signals. "Boosting" any organ function with any supplement is never, ever, suggested for anyone with lyme.
Dr. B's guidelines - and advice from every ILADS educated LLMD and LL ND is to avoid all stimulants, even caffeine (other than maybe in green tea which has calming L-theanine to balance the lower amount of caffeine in green tea)
Glutamine, used to boost gym pushes can also really crash immune function even further -- but the oopph, the ride, may not crash one until it's far too late to reverse the damage.
Gym work needs to be carefully planned, too. See Dr. B's guidelines in set below for a PT plan that works for many.
Support is an entirely different matter and there are many safe ways to offer support. Glutamine is not one of them, not in that way, not at those doses in the gym workout products. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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The bottom line is that once glutamate reaches a certain level, neurological damage has already occurred.
To avoid getting to that point, the goal is to limit the amount of glutamate that comes into the body every day.
As you learn the sources of glutamate and aspartate, you can make informed choices about limiting intake to keep excitotoxins to a minimum; you will never avoid them completely. . . . -
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