posted
Totally safe to get tats with Lyme. As always, go to a reputable shop. They will destroy the needles and follow strict safety protocols.
The only thing regarding tats and piercings and Lyme would be to avoid ear piercings done with piercing guns. They are not as sterile. Even for just ear piercing, go to a proper piercing shop and have it done with a needle--which will then be destroyed with any other biowaste.
-AnnaL (one tattoo and one piercing post-Lyme, with plans for many more)
Posts: 398 | From By the Salish Sea | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leelee
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quote: The only thing regarding tats and piercings and Lyme would be to avoid ear piercings done with piercing guns. They are not as sterile. Even for just ear piercing, go to a proper piercing shop and have it done with a needle--which will then be destroyed with any other biowaste.
I was just going to ask about ear piercing after I read the original tattoo post. I don't have any tattoos, but I do have my ears pierced.
Is the piercing gun the thing where they put the earrings in the gizmo and sort of staple it to your ear?
I wonder about acupuncture also. A long time ago when my symptoms first showed up I was in so much pain that I tried acupuncture for a few months. (It didn't help, much as I wanted it to.)
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I was thinking about the immune challenge as well not to mention the metals and other toxins contained in the dye. I don't have lyme but I know I would react to the dyes. I react to red 40 and other colors.
I have heard that the easiest way to get Hepatitis C is to get a tattoo. They may not re-use the needles, but do they use fresh ink on every person??? If not, the ink can be a reservoir for all types of nasties!
Just be careful! Posts: 236 | From Illinois | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
As far as I'm concerned, it is just being stuck by tiny needles...
As a Lyme patient, I've been stuck by needles many, many times anyways (blood draws, IVs, EMGs, B12 shots).
My last 2 tats healed up within a week, the same amount of time the others took. I figure if it compromised my immune system, healing would have been difficult. It wasn't.
Abxnomore
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posted
I think with all the stuff your immune system is dealing with that getting a tattoo is not a good idea. You are introducing foreign substances into
your body, whichever way you look at it. I think it is a bad idea no matter how hygienic the place is. Do you know what is in those inks and dyes. I don't but I doubt they are things that normally occur in the human body and they probably contain
metals, possibly lead (red dyes contain cadmium) and many dyes are suspected carcinogens. These are all substances a sick body does not need.
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kreynolds
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I have to agree with zombie_mummy... all my tatts are in black and grey... I have 8 big ones.
I find getting a tattoo done very relaxing believe it or not.
I also had my ear, eyebrow,lip, and tongue pierced.
This was all before the disease....
I think there are people out there that hate them and say they are bad because they are unsterile, but as you can see from above most places are sterile.
I love tattoos and won't stop getting them... If this disease is gonna kill me, then I'd rather leave happy and tatted up!!!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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There is a big difference doing it pre lyme. Right now your immune system is working 24/7. You are on
a ton of medications and your system is overloaded and your liver is stressed. Why introduce anything
foreign into your system at this time?
NOT SMART AT ALL.
Don't be so sure how sterile all these places are. Most may be but there will always be those who will cut corners.
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posted
To each her own, of course, but I also found getting my tattoo to be a wonderful experience.
It felt like claiming part of my body back--and the endorphin kick made me feel better than anything! And I did not notice any worsening of symptoms post-tattoo.
Also, for Leelee, yes, a piercing gun is that "staple" kind of thing. Like you'd see at the mall or whatever.
If you want your ears pierced, I recommend going to a piercing parlor and having them do it.
It may seem a little intimidating, since most of the employees will have crazy piercings, but a good shop will make you feel comfortable and respected.
And then they'll pierce your ears the "old-fashioned" way, by poking a needle through the ear and fitting the stud in place.
The needles are sterile (usually they open the pack while you are watching) and are disposed of afterwards.
This method of piercing is much preferred to the piercing-gun-at-the-mall. The guns hold germs more, and you're more likely to get an infected piercing.
As always, go to a reputable shop. See who is voted "best of" in your town, or ask people you see with tats or piecings you admire.
And feel free to ask for a tour of the shop and a full explanation of their safety protocols. Any reputable artist will be happy to explain it all in detail.
-AnnaL (who is planning to get a labret piercing in the near future)
Posts: 398 | From By the Salish Sea | Registered: Dec 2008
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I love my tattoo! I am getting vicarious ink joy reading this. *sigh*
I loved my piercings, too, but I'm a bad healer. Have a big keloid on the cartilage of one ear from a piercing there. I had to let them all close over except the ones in my lobes (5 on the left, 2 on the right).
I got my tat before MCS - black outlined snake with purple and green banding looped around a women's symbol. She encircles my calf.
I planned to get more, but then MCS hit, and I'm afraid of introducing anything I might be sensitive to into my body.
Yes, the endorphins are fab. I say, Kreynolds, go get yer tat and come back and tell us all about it. *grin*
-Sharon
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heiwalove
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posted
i have my next three or four tattoos meticulously planned out, but personally i'm too freaked out to get them done now that i know i have lyme. i agree it adds to the total body burden -- it's an injury, a trauma the body needs to heal from. not to mention whatever is in the dyes, heavy metals and god knows what else. it makes me sad because i would love to get more tattoos (i have four from my pre-lyme days).
posted
I have two tattoo's since becoming sick with Lyme. I had no problems with either one. I will say though that since I have adrenal insufficiency it kind of wiped me out afterwards.
I am going to get another one this summer..I will go to the same shop since I know they are clean, use disposable needles and ink.
Posts: 343 | From North Carolina | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
IMHO, I can't counsel getting any non-medical tattoos. (Certain alternative medicines give small tattoos for specific medical conditions.) Just one tattoo lowers your life expectancy by up to 20 years.
Rather than rework, I copy something I wrote on tats to one of my students in Iraq - lyme survivior/success story, no further problems 20 years after initial short-term treatment - thinking about getting one: (Edited for national security reasons!)
Did you know any tattoo or piercing location should be approved by an energy field specialist? People seriously mess up their fields all the time.
Every time we get a scar what's called field interference may be generated. Certain body modifications are sometimes introduced for health reasons. (Chinese medicinal tattoos, for example.) But this is rare.
Not messing with energy fields, chakras, and meridians is one reason Buddhism proscribes against any, especially unnecessary, body invasive procedure.
An hour in the tattoo parlor can perhaps leave you with lifetime of depression or misdiagnosed illness, for example.
Or it could mess you up just a little bit and you get older and things just don't seem as happy as when you were younger.
And this may be treated inappropriately by a medical community that, along with the patient him/herself, never even comes close to understanding that it may be because a hole was punched and forever messed up or short circuited an important body point.
Tattooing/piercing may through field interference increase a tendency towards violence and anger. Which may be desirable for some. Especially in prison, where in-house tattoos are big.
Is it a coincidence that the most violent known societies have the highest number of....... tattoos and piercings. These indigenous tribes have murder rates of 40% and more. They haven't reached a stage of development where they understand field concept as well as their less rural cousins, in Asia for instance.
That all being said, should you decide to continue remember, of course, to buy your own set of new needles. Most everybody I know does this.
But what a he.. of a lot of people forget is to buy your own ink wells. Crucial. Everybody has clean needles, but many tattoo artists use the wells for multiple people. Be sure about this.
Well, I guess I know a lot about this for a guy with one tattoo. Maybe that's why..... You won't catch me getting another, (if possible) given everything I just pointed out.
I'm one of the................ I don't want to take the chance of jeopardizing.............. I have though body modification.............
I don't know for sure if body mod would change my skills negatively. (Might make them better, but in the holistic concept this could be like permanent steroids with long-term bad effects.) I wouldn't want to chance it.
I certainly would consult a field specialist before getting anything. What I can say is that among my crew, the more tatts, the more the guy and his life seems/ed a mess.
Most came from single parent homes and/or had attention issues. I also don't think I want any more questionably toxic chemicals and certainly heavy metals (the ink) embedded into my body.
Ever notice an abundance of old people with tattoos? There is a strong school of thought that believes tattoos slowly poison you. One of the worst things may be getting tatts re-inked after many years.
I understand Tatts are huge right now. Especially with your age group. Good Luck!
My best advice to anyone here with chronic lyme & co is consider removing all tattoos and especially non-traditional piercings. (However, tattoo removal is scar producing in its own right, so best to consult the aforementioned field specialist. It may be better to leave certain tats.)
Sorry if some reading can't accept what I've said here. Gonna have to take the "Jack" amendment. (You can't handle the ....!) Wonder how many LLMDs are conversant with above?
Abxnomore
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"I also don't think I want any more questionably toxic chemicals and certainly heavy metals (the ink) embedded into my body. "
Most of us already have heavy metal toxicity and don't even know it, we certainly don't need more. It's just plain old common sense that if
your fighting off all these pathogens the last thing your immune system needs is to have foreign substances introduced into it. Sure you may not
notice a difference, but it's wrecking havoc on your system and interfering with your body's ability to fight of Lyme and co's. Does your
body really need an extra toxic burden to handle?
And if they are not using new unopened ink just for you then it doesn't matter if you have a sterile needle as that bottle is already
contaminated from having needles that went into other people's skin and has been dipped back into the ink.
Anyway you look at it NOT A GOOD IDEA. And, that ink from the tattoo thru the years leaches toxins into your system slowly messing with your health.
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lymemomtooo
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I really appreciate this post. My 22 year old lymie has many piercings and tattoos. I am really afraid of each new one wondering if and when it will be the one that might be too much..
We spent over $3000 trying to save two teeth from a piercing in her lower lip. It rubbed and inflamed two bottom middle teeth and they lost almost all of their bone. Surgeries and much grafting later, we have saved them and damn if she didnt' just get it repierced and said that this stud would not cause a problem.
No not to her because she knows we will spend a fotune we don't have to try to save them again.
With each tattoo, I cry and try to explain some of what Lymeric has said. I had read an article on elec conduction thru the layers of the skin and how it can interfere with nerve signals if damaged. I get a shrug. And this is a brain damaged lymie, so why take any more chances?
Everyone deserves to be able to make up their own mind but it is also good to know the pros and cons. lymemomtooo
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kreynolds
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posted
Wow a lot of mixed answers....
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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Do you know how many people can't clear Lyme because of heavy metal toxicity? Heavy metal toxicity causes neurological damage
I think people with Lyme have enough neurological challenges.
Read about what's in tattoo ink and wonder why you would want it in your body.
posted
Girl. I did the same thing I was on IV's and got a dove tattoo to help me through the worst of it.
I would say it's totally safe b/c it was for me and I checked with both my doctors AND the tattoo artist beforehand.
ENJOY Posts: 14 | From VA | Registered: Mar 2008
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Abxnomore
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Not sure I believe what most doctors say. Most have limited knowledge in areas of this nature. They give out drugs, just as poisonous. In our case we need them, but in many cases they give them out when the are not warranted.
You have no way of knowing how your immune system reacted to it, how much more of a burden it put on it.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Any Lymie, no matter how strong or functional, has a very serious illness. Most of us who are completely disabled now were once very strong too. In my opinion it's not a good idea to add to the burden. But people will do what they do. When I was strong I did many things that, looking back, were foolish. Sure they were fun as hell, and I'm glad I did them, but I have little doubt they added, in some way, to my decline.
On the other hand, the life of a Lymie sucks completely -- and if something can bring one a bit of joy ... well, then, maybe that's not so bad.
So it comes down to: risk/reward?
Just think about it.
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LisaS
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posted
Look it, with lyme everything changes. But you have to keep living. Ive read a lot of books on karma and chakras and never read anything about tattoos. I even studied Buddhism, but maybe i missed that chapter. Usually spiritualism teaches that your spirit heals your body. Not that your body controls the spirit.
My point is, with lyme you are supposed to change EVERYTHING. You can't eat what you want, be in the sun as long as you want, stand as long as you want, work a normal job, can't even have a darn beer if I want cuz I get so sick. But you HAVE to keep living. You can't just lay in bed afraid of everything. We are exposed to different bacteria, toxins, electromagnetic fields... everyday all the time, whether we like it or not. We can't hide from everything.
Besides didn't you ever hear of the mom who wouldn't let her kids play outside for fear that they'd get germs? When those kids went to school they had no antibodies built up to fight infections and became sick with every bug they were exposed to.
If ya want a tat, get one, if ya don't then don't. Simple.
quote:Originally posted by Kreynolds: Wow a lot of mixed answers....
Kreynolds, ultimately the decision is yours to make.
It sounds like you are a big boy/girl and, if you've already got 8 tattoos, you have a very good idea of what is involved, your healing time, etc.
We have no idea how sick you are, how your immune system is functioning, whether or not you are chemically sensitive, etc.
Talk to your LLMD. Discuss your concerns about safety/sterility with your prospective tattoo artist. Weigh the pros/cons and make an educated decision.
I wish you the best of luck on your healing journey.
I would be concerned as well with putting more toxins in my already burdened body. I just found out I am loaded with heavy metals which will take awhile to get rid of, besides adding a tat.
I would encourage a new mind set with this for those who are thinking of another tat...
Try to do something else that makes you happy, other than an identifying or symbolic mark.
It's all about a mind set and how you feel about yourself and your situation. and I"ve also learned that in order to truely heal, we need to release emotional bonds, either things we know are hurts or burdens or even those that are subc onsious. I think the Tatoos fall into this somehow, and for many the need cannot be articulated, many are drawn to it for various reasons. Whether for individuality, for artistic beauty, or to make a statement...there are all valid reason...but with major consequences to your life if you have lyme.
Tatoos as well as the metals hold onto the lyme and other pathogens in our bodies.This is known to ND's and those that practice ART and energetic muscle testing. In other countries this is known in the medical communities, but in the USA, there is no good education or testing in general related to lyme and metals. This is coming in the future.
We all need a way to be free of things the hold us down pshcyologiclly and physically.
Unfortuanately , we lymies do need to personally challenge ourselves with new behaviors. Healing takes work and modification.
Ask yourself, do you really need this outward symbol to be happy. If this is the only thing that will make you happy at the time, you must evaluate why? "Do it if it feels good at the moment" approach is death to us lymies.
Thinking about this , may open you up to finding out the deep things that may be holding back your healing...no one can tell you this, only being open and honest with yourself will help you. If you want it.
Abxnomore
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posted
LymeParfait, you have the most sensible perspective on this issue. It's not about tattoos, it's about caring for your body and understanding how doing
things to it effects healing. I spent a huge amount of time and money removing my mercury amalgams and chelating out heavy metals. Without doing so, I would never have stood a chance to get better.
Peter Levine writes a lot about healing past traumas. Here is one of his books. Waking the Tiger : Healing Trauma : The Innate Capacity to Transform Overwhelming Experiences.
Recovering from Lyme is not merely about taking ABX and medications. There is a lot of internal work that needs to be done. Discovering your past
emotional fears, scars and issues. Healing your spiritual body as well as the physical. The physical body is not healed only with ABX. ABX kills off pathogens but destroys many other systems in the body and throws the entire system off kilter.
That's why adding more trauma such as a tattoo with toxic dyes is foolish. If anyone is lucky to get rid of this spirochete you will be spending years getting you body back to homeostasis. You will be dealing with adrenal
issues, heavy metal toxicity issues, candida, GI repair, possibly thyroid problems, nerve regeneration, cardiac issues and whatever other damage the spirochete has left you with.
Think about the long term and the big picture. This illness is not to be taken lightly and ABX is not a magic bullet.
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kreynolds
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quote:Originally posted by nomoremuscles:
On the other hand, the life of a Lymie sucks completely -- and if something can bring one a bit of joy ... well, then, maybe that's not so bad.
Exactly....
If you are going through crap everday already
and you want to do something that you used to
do before this illness I think it brings back a
sense your old self. Meaning staying away from
things you once did prior to getting sick is
not the answer. The key is doing it safely. If
I enjoy getting tattoos and am willing to
compromise my immune system even more, so be
it. At least it will put a smile on my face. My
point is don't stray from what you love... If
it puts a smile on your face and gets you
through the day, then do it!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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That's certainly your call but one wonders why when one is so ill why one would take a chance on
prolonging your illness or causing new complications and adding both to your financial and family burdens.
There are a million things I have denied myself since being sick....mainly the joy of life. But I want to do everything I can to get well and have made progress. Wouldn't dare think of jeopardizing it nor do I have the extra $$$ to waste of frivolities.
Seems pig headed to me, especially since you claim to have made little progress so far. Seems like you have a long way to go.
Good luck......
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
I personally wouldn't risk introducing anything foreign into my body, but that's because I know my immune system has gone haywire. Autoimmunity is the last thing i need.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Yes, the mental reinforcement and strength you get from the tats may trump other concerns...
The Buddhist proscription against body invasion is why Asian medicine developed a non-surgical methodology, with energy, chakras, etc.
Also, Buddhism and Asian medicine as presented in the west are sometimes different. Much is left out of books and teachings, etc. because of cultural incompatibility.
The same system that gives us chakras and meridians to think about says it's medically necessary for males to have constant sexual gratification to be healthy, thus justifying the world's most extensive and elaborate brothel network.
Those trying to cash in or simply spread some of the Asian way obviously left such concepts in Asia. (Wouldn't sell many books here. Also, maybe they don't believe in this particular piece of Chinese medicine.)
Which leads to advice found in many contexts: Pick and choose. Take what's good for you. Leave the rest.
FYI: There is a term in Chinese for America that translates, "Women's heaven on earth." It's all about perspective, I guess.
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kreynolds
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posted
Abxnomore:
I think everyone in this forum and the Lyme coummunity wants to get well. That's a no-brainer.
Sometimes being spontaneous and frivilous isn't at all that bad. Even when it puts a smile on my face.
Pig headed or not we are all in the same boat stuck in the middle of the ocean... some will stay with the boat, others will wander away...
Yes, I have made little progress so far, by the way I'm glad your keping "tabs" on me.
Yes ,I have a long way to go but I'm ready, with my fists clenched.
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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Don't keep your fists clenched. It could bring on muscle spasms........ Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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kreynolds
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posted
LOL... Yeah don't need anymore of them...
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Keebler
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posted
-
You asked: " . . .safe to get tattoos with Lyme."
I'm so sorry but I simply have to say rather loudly: NO!
Ink is petroleum based. The process itself will put the adrenals in shock from the pain, etc. The risk of infection is huge.
Please. If you want to buy colorful or sharp clothes to look terrific, go that route. Get a new hair style. But it's really best to be very kind to your skin.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
You asked: " . . .safe to get tattoos with Lyme."
I'm so sorry but I simply have to say rather loudly: NO! There is has way more than just the needle sterilization to consider.
Ink is petroleum based. That alone can increase your risk of cancer in the future as petroleum products are endocrine disruptors. Petroleum and whatever else in in that ink does not below in your body. Sometimes, that ink contains lead or other harmful heavy metals.
Would you drink the ink solution? Would you be willing to take a little bit of it under your tongue each day. Having it on your skin forever is about the same thing.
Whatever, you are introducing foreign material into your body. The skin is the prime detox organ we have. We need all that skin to be able to work for us. Inked skin cannot do that.
The process itself will put the adrenals in shock from the pain, etc.
Even under the best of circumstances, the risk of infection is huge, even for "healthy" people.
If you want to perk up or make a fashion statement - to buy colorful or sharp clothes to look terrific. Get a new hair style. There are many other ways to find joy and appreciate art. But it's really best to be very kind to your skin.
kreynolds
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posted
LOL...Thanks for the advice... I new I would get a mixed result.
I completely understand everyone that opposes getting a tattoo.
There is no fashion statement that I'm trying to make, I just enjoy tattoos...
As far as buying sharp clothes or getting a new hairstyle, I'll leave that to someone else...
Thanks for your input!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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heiwalove
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posted
it's an extraordinarily personal decision and although i wouldn't personally do it at this stage in my illness/recovery, i wish i could; i think tattoos can be a beautiful form of self-expression.
i take huge exception to much of lymeric's first post. as someone with tattoos and someone who has dear friends with half and whole sleeves and more, i find his/her opinion to be enormously offensive and discriminatory. i understand that tattoos interfere with the body's energy field and can impede healing, but so do scars of all types: surgery scars, injuries, bullet wounds, the list goes on. to imply that cultures utilizing ritual tattooing (part of various ancient spiritual traditions that extend back thousands and thousands of years) are somehow more 'barbaric' and 'violent' than other, so-called 'civilized' cultures seems like a dangerous statement brimming with racism and xenophobia.
to bring it back to my own personal experience: i have many friends with multiple tattoos, in fact some of them have more tattooed skin than untouched skin. and they are all beautiful, gentle people, full of love and caring and concern for their families and communities.
posted
...more to say later about Heiwalove's post later, gotta go... but please don't put that hatred and ignorance on me. Better to be a little more responsible. I never, and wouldn't say any of those wicked things you imputed. Especially as someone who studied, worked, and lived with indigenous cultures around the world.
Curiously, I was going to add in my original post that most people I've met in western culture practicing "extreme" body modification seem to have super gentle souls. Guess I should have.
Posts: 76 | From tolland county, ct | Registered: Jul 2008
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kreynolds
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posted
Im not hating or ignoring... just find it very interesting to have such a mix in replies...
All input is great positive or negative, I feel....
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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posted
Kreynolds, I was referring to Heiwalove's post, not yours.
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heiwalove
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posted
um, lymeric, i was just reacting to your words. you wrote, and i quote:
"Tattooing/piercing may through field interference increase a tendency towards violence and anger. Which may be desirable for some. Especially in prison, where in-house tattoos are big.
Is it a coincidence that the most violent known societies have the highest number of....... tattoos and piercings. These indigenous tribes have murder rates of 40% and more. They haven't reached a stage of development where they understand field concept as well as their less rural cousins, in Asia for instance."
that's extremely offensive to me. i stand by my post.
kreynolds
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posted
Lymeric:
That is very offensive.... I didn't even see that part.
Obviously you know nothing about people it seems, I agree with heiwalove.... Very Rude!!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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Why are we judging Lymeric before he has had a chance to come back and explain? He said that he would.
Even in the two older threads posts that were posed above, the same themes come thru. Mainly two distinct points.
Even with clean needles the ink wells will become contaminated. That would be equal to getting a shot at the doctor's office with a clean needle for a procedure that requires two doses so he takes the same needle out of your arm and sticks it back into the vile and then back into you.
If he is doing this repeatedly the solution he is sticking into you is not sterile, thou the needle will be. BETTER HAVE YOUR OWN INK AND NEEDLES IF YOU WANT TO BE SAFE FROM PATHOGENS.
The inks used are documented to be made from petroleum based products, contain heavy metals, and other industrial solvents that are unregulated by any government agency for human safety and slowly leech into your system thru out your life span much the same way mercury amalgams do. It like intentionally putting poison into your body that will eventually in some way, shape or for affect your health.
Does this effect one's immune system. You bet it does and your health down the line whether you have lyme or not. But having lyme you are adding a extra toxic burden to the system, a system that often has trouble detoxing. It will further stress your adrenal glands and add to a cascading effect of ill health.
Still, it's everyone's free choice what they do with their bodies. I only hope they would be informed of the consequences before making such choices.
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Keebler
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posted
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'Would you inject car paint into your skin?"
Just in case folks didn't get a chance to open and read this link that was a posted above by Abxnomore,
. . . . car paint, petroleum and mercury make up the dye. I don't see how any LLMD would want to continue trying to get someone well when this stuff is being absorbed into a patient's skin on a daily basis.
Just as some LLMDs dismiss patients for not following the self-care guidelines (such as consuming alcohol and smoking) because it's a loosing battle under such conditions, you might check with your LLMD to see if s/he would be able to work against this huge obstacle.
If you are serious about wanting to recover from lyme, I urge you to reconsider and give your body the care it needs to fight this battle.
FDA Will Review Toxic Tattoo Chemicals - (02.10.2008)
The FDA has launched an investigation into the chemicals contained in tattoo and permanent makeup inks, as well as their potential health consequences.
Excerpts:
The European Commission had sent out a warning already in July 2003, where they asked 'Would you inject car paint into your skin?,' that somehow was summarizing the possible health risks associated with tattooing.
The report of the European Commission said most chemicals used in tattoos were industrial pigments originally used for other purposes, such as automobile paints or writing inks, and there was little or no safety data to support their use in tattoos.
. . .
One of the chemicals known to be used in tattoo ink is thimerosal, also called thiomersal, an organic compound containing ethylmercury.
In the US, thimerosal is commonly included in tattoo inks, vaccines, antivenins, and eye and ear products as a preservative. Due in part to mercury's toxic effects, thimerosal is very effective at killing off fungal and bacterial growth.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Keebler, yes it was all posted already above. Pretty clear how bad this stuff is but some still
truly don't understand the connections between this illness and the outside world. You know we live in a world where we want easy fixes and think a pill
will answer all our problems. There is lots of repair that needs to be done during and long after the pills are gone to getting the body back into homeostasis.
The last thing I would want is to put this kind of toxic junk into mine. There are enough toxins
I have to avoid just by breathing the air, drinking water and finding food that has not been poisoned by Monsanto and others.
Not everyone wants to do the hard work involved that it takes to really take care of yourselves. It's too bad we live in a world where most of the
stuff that is out there is bad for us and we have to research and educate ourselves about everything, even the food we eat.
Many think if it's available, then it must be safe......not so infortunately.
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posted
Well, it seems that in California (see below) they are required to warn customers about possible toxins in inks. Similar to the warning on Cigarettes.
But we all know they will not ban cigarettes or I doubt these toxic inks either as the government makes revenue from the sales and people would be fighting mad if there "choice" to indulge in these things ,even though unhealthy, was taken away from them.
Just be informed about what you are doing and weigh the risks -- it's your decision.
Personally, I am already so damaged by the toxic metals in almalgams (all my molars which cost a fortune to remove & replace with crowns)& vaccines that I think a tattoo might be "the straw that broke the camel's back" for me.
_________________________ News Release September 19: State Judge Issues Preliminary Injunction Requiring Warnings on Tattoo Ink Products Sold by Largest Ink Sellers in US U.S.
American Environmental Safety Institute
Palo Alto, California
NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release: Monday, September 19.
Contact: Roger Carrick - (213) 346-7925
State Judge Issues Preliminary Injunction Requiring Warnings on Tattoo Ink Products Sold by Largest Ink Sellers in US
Los Angeles, CA - Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Irving Feffer today issued a preliminary injunction against Huck Spaulding Enterprises, Inc. ("Spaulding") and Superior Tattoo Equipment Co. ("Superior"), the largest tattoo ink sellers in the country.
New York-based Spaulding sells the "VooDoo" brand, while Arizona-based Superior sells the "Prizm" brand of tattoo inks.
The preliminary injunction requires these companies to place the following warning on their tattoo ink labels, catalogs and Internet sites for their California customers:
"WARNING: Tattoo inks and pigments contain many heavy metals, including Lead, Arsenic and others.
All of these heavy metals have been scientifically determined by the State of California to cause cancer or birth defects and other reproductive harm.
Pregnant women and women of childbearing age in particular should consult with their doctor before getting any tattoo.
A person is exposed to tattoo inks and/or pigments when they get a tattoo because they are injected with tattoo ink under their skin or the tattoo ink is applied on their skin."
Judge Feffer granted the motion for preliminary injunction brought by the American Environmental Safety Institute in its Proposition 65 lawsuit filed against Spaulding, Superior and seven other tattoo ink and pigment manufacturers.
The lawsuit alleges that these companies are exposing teenagers and adults who are tattooed using their inks to dangerous levels of Lead and seven other toxic metals.
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Keebler
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I'm not sure most of the folks in the business are even told what they are working with. I think they may be shocked themselves to find out or to learn the serious nature of the ingredients.
I was never taught in school about many of the dangers we face with what we have consumed for decades. It takes a lot of research - and reading from many sources - to get the full picture.
The people who mfr and sell the ink don't want buyers to know.
kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
apparently I must have injected car ink into my skin 8 times...
I posted this originally to find out if it was safe to get a tattoo with Lyme and Co's.
I didn't want to infect another person if the artist was unsterile.
Obviously there is good supportive evidence that claims all the stuff in the ink is bad, as Abxnomore and Keebler had pointed out.
I just don't know where getting a tattoo fits in with increased violence and anger?? Prison tattoos??
Thats all I'm saying. Everyone has helped me with my question regarding tattoos and I thank you.
I just don't get where some people think by getting them could increase violence and anger??
We will have to see what Lymeric says....
Thanks again to all that replied!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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sparkle7
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posted
Interesting discussion.
I'm in so much pain I couldn't even think of having a tattoo done. With all of this pain over the years, one would think I would be an honorary shaman by now... tattoo or not.
Aside from the pain, I have also heard that the inks are toxic. I did see a place in LA once that had a Maori guy doing tattoos in the native style. Maybe he makes his own inks based on their cultural traditions or with more natural ingredients?
I don't have any tattoos & I probably won't get any due to my pain condition. I don't need any other toxins in my system, either. I have studied fine art & did textile design which requires good drawing skills in a particular type of style.
I was thinking of learning tattooing but I'm not sure I could do it since I don't have any tattoos... My eyesight isn't as good as it was & my hand isn't quite as steady as it used to be.
I haven't studied enough to know if violent cultures get more tattoos than other cultures... Judging by the amount to death imposed by wars from this country - one might think the president would be covered in them.
I also have a kind of strange idea about tattoos & body piercing... It occurred to me that this trend towards tattoos & piercing was in preparation for implantation of devices under the skin to monitor people in the future. Or, to have a cashless society.
You know, like 666 - mark of the beast & all. I know tattooing has it's beauty & art, rite of passage, etc. but it did occur to me.
They have developed RFID tags that can be implanted under the skin - - - Why not make it a cool fashion statement? I hope this isn't too over the top for y'all...
Just some thoughts.
PS- I would think that they use disposable needles. I can't see why anyone would re-use a needle. They are inexpensive. Who would want to be accused of spreading AIDS, etc. or getting sued over the cost of a needle in this day & age?
Ultimately, it's a personal decision. I studied sculpture & art & was exposed to way more toxins from molten metals, stone, plaster, clay & all kind of paints & solvents over my lifetime...
Some people die from eating tainted spinach or meat with e-coli from the health food store...
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kreynolds
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posted
sparkle7:
Thanks for your input!!!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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disturbedme
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posted
H, I know some places have vegan inks (most ink isn't totally vegan), but not sure if those are non-toxic as well.
I have no tats, though I'd love to get one or two. As of right now, I have more piercings and am more into piercing than tattooing. Though I'd love a tattoo at some point.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
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lymielauren28
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posted
My husband is a tattoo artist and has MANY tattoos. I don't have not a one, lol.
I've asked him to give me a tattoo for over a year now, and have even resorted to begging a few times.
He's a stubborn guy and refuses to give me one bc of my Lyme disease. He's concerned that it'll put to much stress on my already overly stressed body, or that it may not heal properly or as quickly as it should - tiny cuts and scratches seem to hang around for forever on me.
After reading all of these posts on the toxicity of the ink (which never even occured to me before) I'm really glad that I wasn't able to talk him into it.
I think I'll leave my body just the way it is
Lauren
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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Abxnomore
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posted
Your husband is a smart man.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
I got my first tattoo over a year after my many neuro symptoms first started. It healed quickly and my symptoms didn't increase or worsen at all.
The tattoo shop that did mine used sterile equipment, sterile needles and squirted ink into sterile ink holders. No sharing of ink, equipment, etc.
For those harping about the extra toxins, stress to the immune system, etc -- how many of you smoke or have an occassional drink? How many of you are out in the sun with no sunscreen? How many of you have children/are around children during cold and flu season? How many of you eat McDonalds or drink a Coke? How about the hairspray or make-up you use? Deodorant or lotion? And all those Lyme tx?
Seems to me that many of the anti-tattoo comments are really just that -- anti-tattoo. I find it hard to believe that all of the detractors are leading truly toxin-free lives...
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Abxnomore
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posted
I know we can't avoid all toxins but I try my best. Don't smoke, don't drink, don't use commercial deordorants (use a mineral one), use mineral
based makeup (Jane Iredale) no lead, tar, cat guts, don't eat at McDonalds, don't eat junk food eat organic real
food, don't drink any thing but filtered water or organic tea and I read labels and understand what they mean. I research as much as I can because knowledge is power.
I am not anti tattoo. I am pro health as I know that more than 90% of the stuff that is on the
market is bad for me and there are already enough environmental toxins that my body has to deal with, coupled with this illness. I want my health back.
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sparkle7
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posted
Lauren - How did your husband get into tattooing? You can PM me if it's better for you to respond that way.
It's probably best to try to avoid toxins if possible. I was into health foods & being healthy since I was 14 or so. I'm 47 now. I don't smoke, drink & rarely eat anything but healthy foods. I still got CFS, herpes, fibromyalgia, & Lyme & who knows what else...
We go outside & there are chemtrails everywhere. Who knows what we are being sprayed with. If it makes someone happy to get a tattoo - I'd say go for it.
Would any of you say they are never going to walk outside in fear of getting bitten by a tick again? We can't all go live in a bubble somewhere.
I'm not so convinced about the whole scar trauma theories. It's an interesting topic. I'm sure there are people who have gone through very severe trauma in this world & seem to be healthy... healthier than most of us, in any case.
I don't think it's trauma that has caused our illnesses. It may be through going through pain that we are able to transform our minds. If one choses to do this in a conscious way - it seems like it can be helpful.
There are some traumas that we can't control. Maybe this trauma induced rite of passage is a way for people to feel they have control over their lives? In this case, the benefit may outweigh the risk...
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Keebler
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posted
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emh2l,
It is not true that everyone who is against tattoos smoke or drink, etc.
I don't smoke, drink, eat sugar, gluten, diary or corn. I stay to a good glycemic index and eat healthful foods. My body has little leeway in this but I've come to appreciate that my body's requirements are the better choices.
I am not anti-art. I am not against self-expression (unless it is harmful).
I am against putting toxins into our bodies. It seems that no matter how many articles explain what goes into the ink or what mercury can do to the brain, that this seems to be a "freedom of expression" thing.
But it really is not. It's about having full knowledge - doing all the research from many sources.
It not that I want to spoil anyone's enjoyment of life. Quite the contrary. Once the body is so affected by infections such as lyme, one wrong step can make progress impossible.
I would never consider putting anything into or onto my body that might be harmful. We have choices. I even use hand lotion that is free of petroleum products because of the damage they can do even from absorption.
For more about petroleum products in the human body:
There are many other professional articles about what mercury can do.
--
I wondered if henna might be an alternative art medium but just did a basic search and it seems that there can be problems there, too, with additives such a mercury and scaring from "black" henna.
-
[ 03-25-2009, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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merrygirl
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posted
I have multiple tattoos and I love them. I havent had one done for 10 years now, but I look at them and remember the times in my life that were so good and fun. Its a permanent reminder of where I have been in my life. Someday I will get another (likely a symbol of my defeat of lyme and a tribute of some kind to my children), but while I have Lyme I am going to wait, as I dont think my body can handle that now. as a side note..... my heavy metals tests were great!
DOes anyones tattoos get raised and sorta itchy? happens sometimes to me.
melissa
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I didn't say that everyone against tattoos smokes and drinks. My point was that it is nearly impossible to live toxin free. We all make choices that involve exposure to toxins. It is nearly impossible to live toxin-free.
It's great that you live as "healthy" as you do. I am healthy and live healthy, as well. Other than LD (or whatever this is), I am healthy and have been even with my choice of tattoos. In my experience, tattooing did not worsen anything. No heavy metals here. No mercury. A really cool tattoo, though.
I guess my problem with this thread is that it went from asking a simple question to an outright condemnation of people's individual choices.
Some with LD have chosen oral abx, some natural treatments, some IV, some the ILADS approach and some the IDSA way. People don't have to agree with other's choices but to say they are blatantly wrong is, IMHO, wrong.
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kreynolds
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posted
Abxnomore:
Must be tough reading all those labels and getting that deodorant!!!
More power to ya!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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I have not meant to condemn anyone's choice and I don't see that in the other posts based on the ingredients.
It's not condemning people's choices, just what the industry has put out there for us in the products and sharing the experts and researchers' work on that. We, as consumers, have to step up to the plate. We have to learn more.
Just as with vaccines, with what Jenny McCarthy has done - it's all about safety.
I'm glad you did not suffer any ill effects. But with the experts' assessment of the dangers, for someone in ill health, their findings are what alarms me, as a consumer and someone who is genuinely interested in helping others feel good - as long as they can.
My father was a product liability attorney. I cannot tell you the kind of machines or products that were touted as safe - when the manufacturers knew for a long time that they were not.
Once, a woman showed up at our house with her head raw and bleeding from a bad hair treatment. Still, in my teens all though to my forties, I either bleached or highlighted my hair.
I was rather slow to get it. My lungs now are in poor shape. I don't know how much of that was from breathing in harsh fumes and even powdery stuff from mixing the bleach but I am sure I did not help. And all those chemicals that soaked into my head did not increase my IQ, I'm quite sure.
This is just one example of how, because I wanted to look prettier or have that extra spark of light that I put my body at risk. My lungs have to carry me through the rest of my life and now I have much work to see that that is possible.
Many of the LLMDs tell us to avoid mercury in some varieties of fish. It would follow, then, that we should avoid mercury in other sources, too.
It's not about condemning someone for wanting to perk up their appearance. I totally get that.
It's about the products. It's about how the body will deal with that for the rest of time. Some seem to do fine but it is clearly a risk with a compromised body.
The world may be filled with lots of toxins but we have a choice in not having to add to that.
And I can start thinking about the next step. What might be a safer method. I can see someone making money on some sort of tattoo patches or tattoo armbands, etc. With art, there is much to explore. With ingredients, too, there are alternatives. We just might not have found them yet.
I can actually see putting some of the more elegant tattoos on fabric and framing them for wall decor. Many artists are talented and deserve to find a medium in which they can prosper.
-
[ 03-23-2009, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Abxnomore
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posted
So who said that life was going to be easy?
When you live in a world run by large corporations whose main interests are profits, you bet you have to research, educate yourself and know what you are putting in your body.
Seriously, you should not be using commercial deodorant. It is full of aluminum salts and keeps your body from sweating. You need to sweat to detox all the toxins in your body.
I've been using this stuff over 25 years when I tested high for aluminum. My doctor told me to stop using commercial deodorant.
It stops the odor but allows your body to sweat and detox and won't clog up your lymph nodes. It's cheaper, too.
kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
Abxnomore:
Huh...
I'll have to check it out... Your are right about checking everything out though..
I just don't have the energy to do so... What about shampoos and soaps????
Organic is very expensive....I know its the best route, but it is very costly...
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
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Abxnomore
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posted
Well while you are home sick use the time when you are up to it to read and learn. There's nothing you can't find on the Internet.
Soaps and shampoos are loaded with chemicals, dyes and lots of bad stuff, too. Stay away from artificial dyes and colors. Commercial tooth paste is terrible, too.
It has fluoride in it, a known carcinogen, and saccharin. I use PerioBrite and find it to be a good product. It does not contain Sodium-Lauryl-Sulfate, as other natural toothpastes do.
Soft drinks are loaded with sugar and robs the calcium from your bones. Fruit juice is basically sugar, you are better off eating the fruit. You get the fiber and the fresh vitamins of the fruit.
Basically, if you look at a product and can't pronounce the ingredients or don't know what it is, it's most probably not good for you. Or research it and find out what it is before you eat it.
Yes organic is often more expensive but not always.
That deodorant I use is probably cheaper. Haven't bought any other kind in years but I bet the kind you buy in the drug store is more expensive.
Local farmer's market, when in season...buying local is not necessarily more expensive. It's about making good choices. If you go into ethnic
markets, especially middle eastern ones they always sell olive oil soap. They sell it at a reasonable price, compared to the fancy shops.
In the long run, if you take care of yourself, your medical bills will be less down the line.
It's about learning and educating yourself.
Try subscribing to Dr. Mercola's newsletter as a place to start. I don't always agree with him but he brings up good issues and information.
There are many health newsletters and radio shows you can learn from, as well as books. And, of course, there is lots to learn right here on Lymenet! Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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