Quick backstory - I'm a 21 year old college student, infected last November (2012). Got my diagnosis in February, went on 3 months of abx (doxy). After those 3 months, I felt absolutely amazing.
I then when to the Cowden Protocal to clean up anything that was left over. I simply could not do more than 1 drop of banderal/samento twice a day or I would feel the worst I felt my entire life. As soon I stopped, I felt good as new.
I experimented for about 5 months, trying different ways to go up on the drops while in school. I would end up going up by 1/4 of a drop once a day, and it was just as intense.
After 5 months of never making it past 2 drops of samento twice a day, my baseline began to deteriorate. I no longer felt great on herbs or not on herbs, and went back on abx. First penticillin, then switched back to doxy and got better results.
Any tips to make Cowden more manageable? I have a hunch it may be because I haven't taken any abx for the coinfections, as I know doxy doesn't do much for bart/babs.
[ 01-29-2014, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Unfortunately, it does not sound like you had to begin with or after the 3 months on a doxy, ILADS educated doctors.
I have a hard time writing / thinking so pardon me if it sounds too abrupt but while I wish you well and am a cozy sort, it's that task that I focus on.
1. It is bad treatment to treat with just one antibiotic, even if for 3 months. Doxy usually causes chronic lyme, so you may feel good at first because it causes lyme to HIDE deeper.
A combination of antibiotics is required with rotation along the way. Or other methods under guidance of an ILADS doctor who knows the science of all this.
COINFECTIONS? You say you have babesia and bartonella but did not mention any Rx for those. IMO, Cowden may not be enough to tackle it all, especially if it just isn't working for you.
But don't equate not feeling well with any protocol not working. You may need better liver support, etc.
But if you are relying on Samento, you could be disappointed. It sure failed me, and it's failed many. Some have found it to be of help but it's no winning ticket across the board. Not at all.
Backing up:
How just doxycycline (or other antibiotics, alone) can cause chronic lyme:
2. You seem led to believe that at the 3 mo. mark with just one Rx, all you had to do was to "clean up anything that was left over"
Sorry. It's so much more complex. And I am sorry about that, really.
3. The Cowden protocol is NOT for everyone, for many reasons. Some do well, some do not. It's far too simplistic to think that it's all that would be required to zoom in and finish the job. Sorry.
I could never do multiple alcohol tinctures. Cowden would be out of the question for me. I tried it and it was very clearly not going to work for me.
4. There are other ways to address this. Please go right to the end of the "LL ND" thread and find the new book by Dr. H on 16 points "Why . . . "
And, if you can get a real ILADS educated LLMD or LL ND. If you cannot, find something to hold down the fort while you and three of your brightest friends / family embark on the education of your lives, starting with links set below.
Figure out access regarding the best and most flexible experts -- but also with your budget.
This could take a year if you can find the best LLMD / LL ND or it could take 3 - 5 or even 7 years - or longer. There is no way to know right now but the key is getting the most proactive protocol you can with the best LL doctor.
However, if you have $x.00 then figure out the best way to make that work. It's not ideal but if that's all one has to work with, well, then, we all do the best we can.
Take care. One step at a time. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Breathe. Eat. Sleep. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Be aware that integrative doctors can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first. Some have learned on their own from experts in the field. There are many ways to acquire knowledge and most are eager to share basic details about their training. You want someone with a deep knowledge.
Some of the specialities above may not actually treat lyme yet, for things such as physical adjustments, it is just good that they are also LL, at least to some degree (to know never to suddenly twist the neck or spine).
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIOPHOTON - BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links.
Links for NEW BOOKS & ARTICLES as they come out. Start at the end to see the most recently published book by a very well respected holistic ILADS LLMD.
& WHY you need an ILADS-educated, Lyme Literate Doctor (whether LLMD or LL ND, or both) -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Maybe you are sensitive to those herbs? I've heard banderol is hard to tolerate.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - Unfortunately, it does not sound like you had to begin with or after the 3 months on a doxy, ILADS educated doctors.
I have a hard time writing / thinking so pardon me if it sounds too abrupt but while I wish you well and am a cozy sort, it's that task that I focus on.
1. It is bad treatment to treat with just one antibiotic, even if for 3 months. Doxy usually causes chronic lyme, so you may feel good at first because it causes lyme to HIDE deeper.
A combination of antibiotics is required with rotation along the way. Or other methods under guidance of an ILADS doctor who knows the science of all this.
COINFECTIONS? You say you have babesia and bartonella but did not mention any Rx for those. IMO, Cowden may not be enough to tackle it all, especially if it just isn't working for you.
But don't equate not feeling well with any protocol not working. You may need better liver support, etc.
But if you are relying on Samento, you could be disappointed. It sure failed me, and it's failed many. Some have found it to be of help but it's no winning ticket across the board. Not at all.
Backing up:
How just doxycycline (or other antibiotics, alone) can cause chronic lyme:
2. You seem led to believe that at the 3 mo. mark with just one Rx, all you had to do was to "clean up anything that was left over"
Sorry. It's so much more complex. And I am sorry about that, really.
3. The Cowden protocol is NOT for everyone, for many reasons. Some do well, some do not. It's far too simplistic to think that it's all that would be required to zoom in and finish the job. Sorry.
I could never do multiple alcohol tinctures. Cowden would be out of the question for me. I tried it and it was very clearly not going to work for me.
4. There are other ways to address this. Please go right to the end of the "LL ND" thread and find the new book by Dr. H on 16 points "Why . . . "
And, if you can get a real ILADS educated LLMD or LL ND. If you cannot, find something to hold down the fort while you and three of your brightest friends / family embark on the education of your lives, starting with links set below.
Figure out access regarding the best and most flexible experts -- but also with your budget.
This could take a year if you can find the best LLMD / LL ND or it could take 3 - 5 or even 7 years - or longer. There is no way to know right now but the key is getting the most proactive protocol you can with the best LL doctor.
However, if you have $x.00 then figure out the best way to make that work. It's not ideal but if that's all one has to work with, well, then, we all do the best we can.
Take care. One step at a time. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Breathe. Eat. Sleep. -
Thanks for the advice. I forgot to mention, I also have erlichia which is why I went back on the doxy. Believe it or not I do have an LLMD, and a close relative of mine has had the disease and been researching it for 15 years. I'm about to take enzymes then start taking Malarone, and eventually begin refampin. Problem with refampin is how it weakens the doxy, and I need the doxy for the erlichia.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
If anyone else has a combination that would do wonders on erlichia/borrelia/babesia/bartonella that would be fantastic.
For what it's worth, many of the symptoms I struggle with are neurological. Intense brain fog, anxiety, depression, difficulty sleeping especially around the full moon.
I got very very minor and rare muscle twitching and leg pain. Also, a lot of sore throats.
But I actually am still able to run and lift weights, which is a good sign.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- colonel firbin,
It is great that you work hard to stay active. However, aerobic exercise can be very damaging to the heart and neurological tissue in the presence of infection (especially as there are some that are not being addressed currently).
Some detail here helps clarify why -- and what can help:
Dr. Burroscano's SAFE EXERCISE (non-aerobic) and PT Rehab guidelines,
EXERCISE INTOLERANCE is (partially) explained in the article: "when exercise doesn't work out" (and what we can do about that)
ADRENAL, CARDIAC, MITOCHONDRIA & MYELIN SUPPORT - that all helps movement better work for us
Styles discussed: Pilates; Qi Gong; Tai Chi; Yoga; water; strolling; etc. - -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- " minor and rare muscle twitching and leg pain." [and many of your other symptoms, too] suggests magnesium deficiency that often goes along with lyme.
VERY Common with lyme and coinfections. Strep could also be a player, though. If chronic strep is in the picture, aerobic exercise can be even more harmful. See the Nightingale Foundation post in the Cardiac thread about that.
Your LL doctor should know about your throat. It could take a while to resolve but be sure they know about it. Check the back SIDES of your throat to see if there are "crescent arches" -- that can be much more sore for many with lyme. Licorice helps soothe my throat:
Note: an excellent cough drop. Helps nourish lungs and calm stomach. Good for adrenals. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I just backed up to see you say:
"Believe it or not I do have an LLMD" . . .
oh, I believe it. Many are in that boat (myself included). Good thing you have "a close relative of mine has had the disease and been researching it for 15 years. . . ."
still, I really wish everyone had access to a real ILADS LLMD / LL ND. This is so hard to figure out on one's one. And for those who have to do so, you might consider RIFE.
Diagnosing Lyme Disease (&/or whatever else is going on)
Other tick-borne infections and other chronic stealth infections - as well as certain conditions that can hold us back - are discussed here.
Foods that cause phlegm can be a "sore throat" stressor for those with stealth infections, too. Gluten, Dairy, Corn & Soy are the top food groups that cause formation of inflammation / phlegm and that phlegm can harbor bacteria.
Protocol for Borrelia and Lyme Co-Infections & Most Chronic Conditions
Scroll down: COWDEN SUPPORT PROGRAM
Protocol for Borrelia and Lyme Co-Infections & Most Chronic Conditions -
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Hi Colonel forbin, sorry to hear that you have had a lot of trouble with Samento and Banderol. I am on the Cowden herbs myself, but even so, it is hard to say why someone reacts strongly to them......
it might mean that they just don't suit you; or that they are causing cysts to de-cyst (see Dr Eva Sapi's research) or that because you were trying to combine them with college, you couldn't cope with fierce Herxing.
I took quite a long time to ramp up my doses of Banderol, which is quite notorious in that respect (the same with Cumanda, which comes after the first three months of the Cowden protocol).
What does your LLMD advise? Can you take some time off from your studies whilst you concentrate on treatment?
If you still can't tolerate Samento and Banderol after that, it is time to try something else, either a rotated sequence of antibiotics or a different herbal approach. Do you have access to someone who does muscle test ing, which might help?
[ 01-29-2014, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Also, Keebler is giving good advice about the exercise: exercise is important, but the weight etc are the way to go, not the aerobics.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
You could ask Dr C by PMing him on Facebook.
Posted by Rivendell (Member # 19922) on :
Perhaps Cowden is not right for you.
Check out the Buhner protocal or Dr. Zhang below.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - colonel firbin,
It is great that you work hard to stay active. However, aerobic exercise can be very damaging to the heart and neurological tissue in the presence of infection (especially as there are some that are not being addressed currently).
Some detail here helps clarify why -- and what can help:
Dr. Burroscano's SAFE EXERCISE (non-aerobic) and PT Rehab guidelines,
EXERCISE INTOLERANCE is (partially) explained in the article: "when exercise doesn't work out" (and what we can do about that)
ADRENAL, CARDIAC, MITOCHONDRIA & MYELIN SUPPORT - that all helps movement better work for us
Styles discussed: Pilates; Qi Gong; Tai Chi; Yoga; water; strolling; etc. - -
Wow, that's incredibly disappointing, but good to know I suppose. Do you think that applies to going in the Sauna? I do that for detox almost everyday, but would definitely be considered an aerobic exercise by some...although definitely not as heavy of an aerobic excercise as distant running.
I really appreciate all the input everyone.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by ukcarry: Hi Colonel forbin, sorry to hear that you have had a lot of trouble with Samento and Banderol. I am on the Cowden herbs myself, but even so, it is hard to say why someone reacts strongly to them......it might mean that they just don't suit you; or that they are causing cysts to de-cyst (see Dr Eva Sapi's research) or that because you were trying to combine them with college, you couldn't cope with fierce Herxing.
I took quite a long time to ramp up my doses of Banderol, which is quite notorious in that respect (the same with Cumanda, which comes after the first three months of the Cowden protocol).
What does your LLMD advise? Can you take some time off from your studies whilst you concentrate on treatment? If you still can't tolerate Samento and Banderol after that, it is time to try something else, either a rotated sequence of antibiotics or a different herbal approach. Do you have access to someone who does muscle test ing, which might help?
I came back home and am taking this, and possibly next semester off. I don't currently have a doctor that does muscle testing but I could find one.
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Difficulty sleeping around the full moon is from parasites. Everyone has them (part of this earth). Lyme patients are busy fighting lyme and company, so their immune systems are weakened, and the bugs flourish.
Parasites are incredibly overlooked, as many just don't want to believe it, and western medicine is clueless about them. Your reaction to Cowden herbs sounds like the herbs were hitting the bugs. I would go after parasites if I were you.
Visit THE PARASITE WARRIOR'S SUPPORT THREAD for more info.
Also, my brain fog went away after treating for babesia, which is a parasite. The parasite meds helped me the most. My babs is almost at zero. Anxiety and depression are either bart, or proto (FL1953) on me. Proto is easily missed, as symptoms overlap.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Good luck, yes, do go ahead with the saunas, as you obviously tolerate them they should help you to detox.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by Catgirl: Difficulty sleeping around the full moon is from parasites. Everyone has them (part of this earth). Lyme patients are busy fighting lyme and company, so their immune systems are weakened, and the bugs flourish.
Parasites are incredibly overlooked, as many just don't want to believe it, and western medicine is clueless about them. Your reaction to Cowden herbs sounds like the herbs were hitting the bugs. I would go after parasites if I were you.
Visit THE PARASITE WARRIOR'S SUPPORT THREAD for more info.
Also, my brain fog went away after treating for babesia, which is a parasite. The parasite meds helped me the most. My babs is almost at zero. Anxiety and depression are either bart, or proto (FL1953) on me. Proto is easily missed, as symptoms overlap.
Interesting. YOu are not the first person to say this to me. I'll be starting Malarone for babesia in the next few days. The plan is Doxy/Malarone/Potentially Zithromycin for a while then switch over time to Amox/Rifampin/Malarone.
You would recommend a parasite drug on top of that? Or would the Malarone be sufficient
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by ukcarry: Good luck, yes, do go ahead with the saunas, as you obviously tolerate them they should help you to detox.
Well in terms of tolerating, I don't feel any adverse effects after a run. In fact, they make me feel great. But the links above were pretty persuasive...sign. Strange cause so many people in the lyme community, including doctors have told me to stay as active as possible and never mentioned that.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Low heat infrared sauna, especially, can be extremely helpful. A regular sauna is often too hot for many (and can stress the heart of those with heart concerns) . . . however, you have obviously found
your best temperature range and time for your body.
"Stay as active as possible" has many different interpretations. And those who say that who are not LL, have a very different idea of what this means.
Still, LL doctors and those dealing with lyme will also say "stay as active as possible" -- but there is a whole different foundation to that . . . and it can vary from person to person.
Best with a LLMD's guidance and, if that is not possible, just become educated about the science of lyme, what happens with lyme / TBD / stealth infection in the body and how aerobic exercise affects that. When you have as much detail as possible from the best experts, then you know better the range of considerations as you move forward.
Still, even dodging aerobics, there are so many - so very, very many - other ways to stay active.
And, yet, rest is also a cornerstone of recovery. That balance can shift from day to day, hour to hour for some folks. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- colonelforbin,
Re: reposting entire posts
It's appreciated that you repost so your reply is in context but you can relax and not have to go through all that. Usually, your posts will make sense to anyone who is reading along.
Or you can just "address" it to a particular person so the reader can go back to their last post for context.
Still, whatever works for you. -
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
Sounds good Keebler, getting the hang of this whole thing. FYI just also went on a Lipsomal-Atrtemesia-Enula mixture.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Be sure to check out other threads, some will have "Cowden" in the subject line, others will have the specific item in the subject line.
And, as time goes by and you might want to find previous threads of yours for certain details, just click onto your "name" over to the left, in bold, and you can trace posting history.
When you find a particular poster who has a handle on something, you can also do that to see if they have similar posts for reference. -
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Malarone helped but it wasn't enough.
I would wait and see how you do on malarone and abx. You need to see if you can tolerate those meds first. Then you can try adding some parasitic herbs after a while.
Some people do salt/c protocol but I wasn't able to do this while on abx (kidney pain). I never did abx and parasite meds. The parasite meds are surprisingly strong, so IMO it is not worth taxing your liver/kidneys.
I think it's best to be conservative and go with the herbs while on abx. Check out THE PARASITE WARRIOR'S SUPPORT THREAD (so much more info there).
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
If you still have ehrlichia or anaplasma then I don't understand why the doc is not combining the doxy and rifampin. The 2 drugs at the same time is the standard treatment for hard to cure ehrlichia/anaplasma.
For you info -- sith and rifampin both treat lyme, babesia and bartonella all to some extent as well.
If you have never taken a cyst buster then that is something else to consider. Either tindamax or flagyl.
Doxy or mino plus zith plus tindamax or flagyl plus malarone is a pretty good combo. But first I would try adding in the rifampin -- as you are aware rifampin does not mix real well with other meds.
It does not sound like you have been treated for either bart or babesia up to this point. Generally the ehrlichia/anaplasma would be the first priority, but some people do better by treating all known infections at the same time.
You are probably aware of this, but I will mention it anyway. It is always best to only change one med at a time and wait at least 3 -5 days or even a week before adding in or changing another med.
Bea Seibert
Posted by jlcd1 (Member # 18138) on :
I have all your co infections plus Brucelliosis. Im on minocycline, rifampin, plaquenil, and zith. Also take crypto plus and art for babs for right now. I just started the crypto plus and holy ****. Its really hitting something.
Every time I try to go off rifampin all he'll breaks loose.
Posted by jlcd1 (Member # 18138) on :
Where do u get the liposomal artemisia enula mixture
Posted by Chipster (Member # 43143) on :
You could also get a more robust detox program going if you have one and if you don't start one.
Also, Stephen Buhner has some great books for treating Lyme and coinfections.
Please note that I don't practice medicine, but everybody in the US needs detox - Lyme or not.
CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta -
Posted by Chipster (Member # 43143) on :
Keebler,
Roger that thanks.
Chipster
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I agree with Catgirl. Parasitic worms migrate on the new and full moons...you will feel worse then from them if that is your issue.
Check out the CD baby bottle protocol and parasite protocol which is much gentler than the systemic parasite meds. Look up Kerri Rivera's book for autism which spells out the protocol. Autism is caused by worms (among other things) so that it why the protocol focuses on autism but many others are on the protocol.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: If you still have ehrlichia or anaplasma then I don't understand why the doc is not combining the doxy and rifampin. The 2 drugs at the same time is the standard treatment for hard to cure ehrlichia/anaplasma.
For you info -- sith and rifampin both treat lyme, babesia and bartonella all to some extent as well.
If you have never taken a cyst buster then that is something else to consider. Either tindamax or flagyl.
Doxy or mino plus zith plus tindamax or flagyl plus malarone is a pretty good combo. But first I would try adding in the rifampin -- as you are aware rifampin does not mix real well with other meds.
It does not sound like you have been treated for either bart or babesia up to this point. Generally the ehrlichia/anaplasma would be the first priority, but some people do better by treating all known infections at the same time.
You are probably aware of this, but I will mention it anyway. It is always best to only change one med at a time and wait at least 3 -5 days or even a week before adding in or changing another med.
Bea Seibert
I was kind of drawn to the logic that killing parasites then moving to co infections is the way to do this. I'm attemping to go up now on a alcohol based parasite killing concoction that contains lypsomal-artimesia-enula among other parasite busters that aren't labeled.
The formula was made custom by my relative's LLMD practice, so unfortunately I can't disclose that information. It's a potent combination that made my aunt excrete tons of worms, visibly. I wanted to get to the killing dose, do it for a couple of weeks or a month, then double back to the Rifampin and switch to a non alcohol based artemesia.
The grand question for me is treat parasites first, or treat bartonella/erlichia. Doxy+enzymes gives some coverage for erlichia and borrelia.
The other school of thought here is Stay on doxy+enzymes+parasite mixture+another bartonella abx, but that wouldn't have the erlichia 1-2 punch
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
Please ignore my post before my most recent post, I realized I was wrong and forgot why, accidentally submitted it. Little sleep will do that to you :-)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- For your posting ease, you can always edit or delete whatever you want - anytime you want (as long as it one of YOUR posts!).
Just click onto that itty bitty paper & pencil icon over the post, right of center, halfway to the outer edge.
Editing is pretty straightforward. Deleting requires noticing a little "Delete" box to the left on the edit page. Then just click the "edit post" box below and all is well with the world.
It took me a while to figure all that out, actually. -
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
It all depends on the person as to what order to treat infections in my opinion.
Many patients on this forum will argue that one month is not long enough to treat parasites -- even G.I. parasites if that is what you are attempting to treat.
And definitely one month is insufficient to treat babesia which is a red blood cell parasite.
A systemic approach of course is a good idea, but for many people real life does not follow a straight line and what you think is a good long range plan may not even last a month before you have to rethink your plan.
Treating tickborne diseases is not quick and easy. It is trial and error unfortunately. There are innumerable variables and obstacles that may crop up so just don't be too inflexible in making any long range treatment plans.
Any time you start combining multiple meds you can get unexpected side effects. Also even if one med lowers the effectiveness of another the meds may have different mechanisms of action that still make them an effective combo.
There are unfortunately very few studies of med combos involving tickborne diseases and that is where an experienced doc makes the difference.
Good luck.
Bea Seibert
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by tick battler: I agree with Catgirl. Parasitic worms migrate on the new and full moons...you will feel worse then from them if that is your issue.
Check out the CD baby bottle protocol and parasite protocol which is much gentler than the systemic parasite meds. Look up Kerri Rivera's book for autism which spells out the protocol. Autism is caused by worms (among other things) so that it why the protocol focuses on autism but many others are on the protocol.
Yes, full moons have been horrendous for me.
I've been going back and forth all over the place since I started this thread. The parasite warriors thread certainly gave me some guidance.
At this point, I decided I'm gonna take enzymes with the doxy, ramp up on my Lipsomal-Artemesia-Enola, then try Cumanda, and see if Banderal/Samento is easier after those previous 2. At the very least, the previous 2 should do a good deal of work for me.
I've always preferred herbals and less antibiotics, I have been considering a lot of antibiotics lately but I don't think I'm ready to give up on herbs entirely cause Banderal/Samento didn't work the first time I tried. Lots of good advice in this thread though. I'm going to look into the baby bottle protocol
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Good - keep reading...there are a lot of options out there. I think you are trying a lot of good things....but you are still not adding anything to kill the worms....
We had good success with Samanto/Cumanda combination along with Agrisept-L for babesia. Even better is the Dr. K lyme cocktail. Those worked for lyme but we still needed to treat parasites.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
By going more herbals, I can stay on this Artemesia/Enula Mixture for a long time, and continue adding more and more herbs into the picture to tackle everything at once
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by tick battler: Good - keep reading...there are a lot of options out there. I think you are trying a lot of good things....but you are still not adding anything to kill the worms....
We had good success with Samanto/Cumanda combination along with Agrisept-L for babesia. Even better is the Dr. K lyme cocktail. Those worked for lyme but we still needed to treat parasites.
As I said, when my aunt started taking this Artemesia/Enula mixture, she began to pass worms into her toilet everyday. I assumed then it would do something for my parasites?
Also Tick battler, in Cowden's video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29GnjMPSqbs), he says that a woman went on Cumanda and began to pass worms as well.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Yes, that's true those both do hit parasites so that is a good start. You may need to rotate other herbs after a while. I'm glad you are going to research the CD baby bottle protocol/parasite protocol. We see worms every day from all 5 family members.
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
quote:Originally posted by tick battler: Yes, that's true those both do hit parasites so that is a good start. You may need to rotate other herbs after a while. I'm glad you are going to research the CD baby bottle protocol/parasite protocol. We see worms every day from all 5 family members.
Easier said than done, but if I can tolerate an herb that hits one of my lyme coinfections AND parasites...it seems to make a lot of sense that I should take it!
By the way, didn't mention this earlier, but due to various screenings my LLMD believes i have some heavy metal poisoning, so I recently threw zeolite in the mixture. I haven't experienced any negative side effects (if there are any)
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
That's good that you are aware early on that reservoirs of environmental poisoning with certain chemicals and metals, usually lead and mercury, can really hold you back.
These bacterial infections, viruses, fungal issues, heavy metals, other chemicals such as formaldehyde, parasites form a synergistic relationship, so that treating one aspect of the illness alone often does not work.
Just as with the parasites, you will probably need to rotate approaches to the metals (and keep different antifungals thandy, as fungal problems tend to come to the fore whilst you are treating metals).
Using a sauna, as I know you are, should help too.
Posted by Chipster (Member # 43143) on :
Colonel,
I think if I was taking a lot of pills and capsules a day I would make sure you were getting high quality brands without alot of fillers like magnesium stearate and stearic acid.
Big doses of those can really rip up the gut.
Chipster
Posted by colonelforbin1992 (Member # 43154) on :
Update: Just passed what appears to be some kind of parasite after being on the Artemesia-Enula for 4 days...currently at half the dose I'm supposed to be at, working my way up.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I have a total different opinion. When I take something and I react strongly, but after I see I got improvement, I stick to minimal dosages and DO NOT INCREASE.
Buhner knows that many people IMPROVE with minimal dosages. His book was written before he knew that. After thousands of emails with patients trying his protocol, he is now more than convinced that NOT EVERYONE reacts the same way and that people may improve with minimal dosages.