-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
The doctor who runs quackwatch has been discredited in court repeatedly. Last I heard he hadn't held a medical license for over a decade. His own wife has fibromyalgia. Too bad he will never consider that she may have lyme. Maybe you should check out what they have to say about chronic lyme disease.
Sub toxic levels of mercury make it harder to get rid of borrelia not to mention that it can cause many overlapping symptoms with borrelia.
Clin Exp Immunol. 2007 Aug 2;
Mercury exposure as a model for deviation of cytokine responses in experimental Lyme arthritis: HgCl(2) treatment decreases T helper cell type 1-like responses and arthritis severity but delays eradication of Borrelia burgdorferi in C3H/HeN mice.
Ekerfelt C, Andersson M, Olausson A, Bergstr�m S, Hultman P.
Division of Clinical Immunology, and Unit of Autoimmunity and Immune Regulation, Department of Molecular and Clinical Medicine, Faculty of Health Sciences, University Hospital, Link�ping, Sweden.
Lyme borreliosis is a complex infection, where some individuals develop so-called 'chronic borreliosis'. The pathogenetic mechanisms are unknown, but the type of immune response is probably important for healing. A strong T helper cell type 1 (Th1)-like response has been suggested as crucial for eradication of Borrelia and for avoiding development of chronic disease.
Many studies aimed at altering the Th1/Th2 balance in Lyme arthritis employed mice deficient in cytokine genes, but the outcome has not been clear-cut, due possibly to the high redundancy of cytokines.
This study aimed at studying the importance of the Th1/Th2 balance in murine Borrelia arthritis by using the Th2-deviating effect of subtoxic doses of inorganic mercury. Ninety-eight C3H/HeN mice were divided into four groups: Borrelia-infected (Bb), Borrelia-infected exposed to HgCl(2) (BbHg), controls exposed to HgCl(2) alone and normal controls. Mice were killed on days 3, 16, 44 and 65 post-Borrelia inoculation.
Arthritis severity was evaluated by histology, spirochaetal load determined by Borrelia culture, IgG2a- and IgE-levels analysed by enzyme-linked immunosorbemt assay (ELISA) and cytokine-secreting cells detected by enzyme-linked immunospot (ELISPOT).
BbHg mice showed less severe histological arthritis, but delayed eradication of spirochaetes compared to Bb mice, associated with increased levels of IgE (Th2-induced) and decreased levels of IgG2a (Th1-induced), consistent with a Th2-deviation. Both the numbers of Th1 and Th2 cytokine-secreting cells were reduced in BbHg mice, possibly explained by the fact that numbers of cytokine-secreting cells do not correlate with cytokine concentration.
In conclusion, this study supports the hypothesis that a Th1-like response is required for optimal eradication of Borrelia.
PMID: 17672870 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
That's okay, hadlyme, some people don't want to know the truth and would rather suffer, and the fellow you linked is one of the worst of them.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Actually everything he said is exactly what the ADA believes in and backs as truth. He didn't get this info all by himself.
Believe what we want. Do what is best for your body.
I for one know the inside track on this topic, and geez.... some day you all are going to cry wolf when those plastic fillings in your body wreck more havoc than the alloys.
Somehow, it's pretty weird. Working with amalgam with my hands (gloves on) for over 17yrs in the office and not one Urine test came up that I even had a trace in my system. Even had the hair tested. And gee... I have a few alloy fillings to. But then again, I don't chew as strong as a sheep..... do you?
Sorry... For me, I don't buy this at all... But again... believe as you want
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I am obviously in agreement with hadlyme. As a dentist, I have not had any problems at all with amalgam fillings. The fillings that keep failing and cause repeated harm to teeth are composite white fillings. I would like to see published, accredited studies about amalgam. Not useless, bogus articles. Dentists that believe this about lyme are in it for the money. The leader of the anti-amalgam movement is now practicing dentistry in mexico because of all of the lawsuits against him.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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I must admit, his writing style is very professional. Stephen Barrett comes across as extremely credible and intelligent, doesn't he? Not quite as intelligent as myself, but pretty close.
quote:The antifluoridationists' ("antis") basic technique is the big lie. Made infamous by Hitler, it is simple to use, yet surprisingly effective.
I'll be sure to remember Hitler's effective techniques. I put them in my journal.
But please remember folks, if you swallow a tiny bit of toothpaste, make sure to call poison control immediately, but keep drinking that tap water to try to wash it out of your system!
If the ADA says it's good for you, it must be.
Everything he said is exactly what the ADA believes in and backs as truth. He didn't get this info all by himself.
All I care about is white teeth. I've been considering knocking out all my teeth and going with dentures. Is this a good idea? I need a professional opinion. Does the ADA think it's a good idea?
---------
Truth be told: I was given fluoride pills as a child and all it did was screw up my enamel and give me spotted teeth.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
I have two amalgam fillings and my Dentist says he won't remove them just because they are amalgam.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
BigZ and Hadlyme, show us all the ADA studies not the corrupted one in Spain that mercury fillings (by weight is the most prevelant of the alloys in a filling) is safe. Then please show us the studies how mercury does not send one molecule into the body because it is an alloy. Then share with us how mercury anywhere in the body is ok.
Ok, guys show us, you opened the topic of amalgam safety -- proof it!!!!!!!!!!
And guys, your right the ADA is no better then Stephen Barrett.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I am a dentist in Canada, all though the guidelines are the same. Amalgams do release mercury. The amount is extremely small compared to the other environmental exposures such as canned fish. The scientific database that all professionals use is pubmed or cochrane reviews. Please go online and find me some articles that prove its not safe. I am just curious, do you guys think there is a huge conspiracy concerning it? If it was so bad as everyone is saying, why would it not be banned? Why would the government want to make sure it is still used, they are getting nothing out of it. If it was so dangerous as everyone says, it wouldn't be used anymore. Gold foil fillings, for example, were proven to be harmful, so dentists don't do gold foil fillings anymore.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Hadlyme and Big Z -- If someone has elevated mercury levels in their urine and/or hair, do you think then it is a good idea to have the amalgams removed?
If so, what do you think are the absolute safest fillings available? I imagine there are several different companies producing various different options, so which would be the safest and best?
I've wondered for a while about the safety of amalgams. Since know one knows anything for sure..... My guess is that it may not be a problem for some, but perhaps it can be a huge problem for others. Maybe this is where using a tensor on the individual may yield a truthful answer.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Hi Tammy, The other option for a filling material would be a composite resin. This is an inferior treatment option unless working in an esthetic area. It hardens by polymerization with uv light and this creates polymerization shrinkage. This leads to microleakage in the filling/tooth interface which can reintroduce bacteria. I agree, mercury in the blood is not good. I am just saying from my personal experience, which I have seen many many patient with amalgams, all are doing just fine. I myself have four large amalgam fillings, and when tested for heavy metals, my mercury was completely normal. Replacing amalgam fillings unnecessarily will lead to repeated trauma to the tooth in question. By exposing it to the heat from the drill, it will become inflamed and later down the road probably need a root canal. And I know how people on this site feel about those. What I'm trying to say is, yes, I agree mercury is not good for you. But the amount in dental amalgam is next to nothing. Just like the polymers used for removable partial dentures, temporary crowns, etc. All are carcinogenic, but not in the amounts used. To answer your question, I would say that the majority of the amalgam in your urine and blood is coming from other sources. If you insist on getting them replaced, make sure the dentist explains the consequences. If you have a deep amalgam filling near the pulp, and want it replaced, you will more times than not need a root canal on that tooth. Hope this helps.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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TerryK
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posted
Norway and Sweeden have banned them.
Guess proponents of amalgams don't care that mercury (sub toxic levels) can change the way the immune system works making it harder to get rid of borellia??
I have huge cracks in my teeth because amalgams expand and contract and crack the teeth according to my dentist.
Some people have genetic issues that make it harder to get rid of heavy metals. When I used nutrigenomics to work around mine, heavy metals started to pour out. YOU may not think you are affected but I know for a fact that I am and others like me are.
Perhaps some day you will open your eyes even if you think it doesn't affect YOU personally. Remember do NO harm?!
edited to add: On the comment: if they aren't safe why haven't they been banned? If there really is chronic lyme, why isn't it recognized by the government and main stream medicine?? Apparently you are fooled into thinking that the government is doing a fantastic job of protecting us.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Have you heard of treatment of oral spirochetes with various lasers - there are videos of that too.
My mother was severely hurt by a root canal. She had a heart infection after a root canal and it took her 2 years to recover. She has also had 2 rare genetic heart conditions that were discovered. Her rate rate would go over 300 bpm and required ablations for her rare genetic heart conditions. She could have died in the CICU as that heart rate took days to come down and no meds worked.
Where does the ADA talk about these risks? I can't seem to find it. Is it hidden?
I assume since they are such a trustworthy association, they would openly talk about this. Excuse me if they do, I just can't find this important info on their site. I'm sure they are not trying to hide anything.
What do you think about the 25 years of research of Dr. Weston Price. Apparently he had over 1100 pages of careful research. Was he ignored? If so, why?
[ 10-25-2010, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: kday ]
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
Older article, but nothing has changed as far as toxicity is concerned.
http://www.saveyourteeth.com/metals2.htm - an even older article, and nothing has changed, except people are becoming more toxic and chronic infections are a bigger problem than ever
Read some of my 7000 posts - not a darn thing has changed, except I am living proof that Lyme Disease can be eradicated at any age if you clean up the body and lighten the toxic burden.
Someone mentioned rubber gloves - I remember the research being discussed by Dr. K. where it was found that mercury slipped through seven layers of gloves......
I remember the Canadian Health Department reporting 20some% of their dentists living on disability. I know personally two of them falling ill in their thirties with heart problems...
No toxic metal found in urine or blood? It doesn't live there - it lives in your joints, reproductive organs, and anywhere but the blood. Do a hair analysis and learn to understand and interpret that test.
Don't fight it, because most people who are suffering from metal and chemical toxicity and the fungal problems these create have a heck of a problem with Lyme and associated problems.
I have done it - I am well - and I have learned what it is all about. A severe case of Lyme for me has long ago vanished and I have learned that I am getting rid of any stubborn metals right now by doing Allergie Immun. The stuff that I had accumulated during my many years of life is now literally dripping out of me. It is life-changing and wonderful.
Everybody who lives with a chronic case of Lyme is heavy metal toxic. Doesn't matter which one - one is as bad as the next and all are ruining our health. If not the metals, the fungi will get you for certain. If the body holds on to metals, it saves it self by creating more and more fungi. Fungi in the brain will eventually ruin what's left for sure. You can starve yourself with your anti-yeast diet -- fungi grows nevertheless. The only way to stop the fungi is to get rid of the toxic metals.
The sad part is that we pass them to our children.
There is more mercury put in the air through chlorine manufacturing than all the power plants combined in the U.S.
Several years ago there was a huge movement in Switzerland to outlaw burning of bodies -- should they break out the fillings before they burned them or buried them??? They were discussing special liners in coffins that supposed to last 20,000 years. I don't know how they solved it.
For each step in the food chain from one animal to the next higher concentrates mercury about 10,000 times. Read "Our Stolen Future".
When the little fish eats an aquatic plant, and the plant has a little bit of mercury in it, the fish over its lifetime concentates that concentration of mercury by a factor of 10,000 times in its body. Now if the next bigger fish eats that one, it concentrates that by 10,000 times. By the time it comes to the fish-eating human being.........
This and the Chemtrails.
It's time to stop it.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
Lets start with mercury in the environment more then an issue inside the mouth:
So amalgams by themselves contribute about 729 lbs of mercury a year.
Lets examine how much mercury is contained from those who are cremated, or how much they are finding from the living based on urine and feces. If the body is excreting so much mercury, I'm pretty sure it isn't eating too much tuna fish. The data is there gentleman, how does the ADA explain it. And stop chickening out, start explaining your position, or I'll assume the ADA can't explain it. It is a public health problem of the worst kind. We as a society shouldn't be playing around with such a toxic substance.
If you guys think a hair analysis or urine and feces examination without a mercury dpms challenge, your naive. You need the challenge to move mercury.
If you really want to run a test and feel mercury isn't a problem. Create a cilantro pesto and have three tablespoons a day, if you don't get sick you don't have a mercury problem.
I gave some facts guys, if mercury from amalgam isn't an issue show us some proof. Not just the ADA says it isn't, show us the long term university studys. Don't just pander us, give us facts, the great ADA has facts doesn't it.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Mercury is bad for you: Fact Amalgams are ~ 50% mercury: Fact Amalgams leak mercury vapor: Fact Ability to eliminate mercury from the body varies from individual to individual based on multiple factors: Fact As we age the metabolism slows: Fact A slower metabolism will eliminate less mercury, increasing the likelihood of the appearance of toxic symptoms: Conjecture
I only know my own experience with amalgams: Progressive Anxiety/depression/irritable bowel syndrome since amalgam placement at age 29, resolution of symptoms with removal and chelation at age 44-46.
Population studies tend to hide detrimental effects because they focus on only one detrimental effect at a time, and select out people with pre mercury morbid health problems which could be the canary in the coal mine.
The best solution is prevention, vitamin D adequacy from gestation throughout life coupled with healthy eating to promote the building of healthy teeth.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
The ADA owns the patent on amalgams. Of course they support them.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
if amalgams are damaging to tissue around the tooth what happens within the rest of the body as mercury moves toward the stomach liver kidneys, please counter with and official study not 150 years of apparent safety nonsense, some more facts to argue against:
Dr. Murray J. Vimy DMD Responds to Dr. Robert M. Anderton DDS, President of the American Dental Association
CALGARY, CANADA, July 4, 2001
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
The news release by the American Dental Association (ADA) dated June 13, 2001 contains a very significant error. The ADA President Dr. Robert M. Anderton is reported as saying, ``There is no sound scientific evidence supporting a link between amalgam fillings and systemic diseases or chronic illness''. Yet, it is well known in the published, peer-reviewed dental journals that mercury leaks directly from amalgam into adjacent oral tissues causing periodontal disease (gum disease).
Critical Fact #1:
In 1957, Zander (JADA, 55:11-15) reported "materials used in restorative dentistry may be a contributing factor in gingival disease."
Critical Fact #2:
In 1961, App (J Prosth Dent 11:522-532) suggested that there was greater chronic inflammation around amalgam sites than non-amalgam areas.
Critical fact #3:
In 1964, Trott and Sherkat (J CDA, 30:766-770) showed that the presence of amalgam correlates with gingival disease. Such disease was not present at contralateral amalgam-free sites.
Critical fact #4:
In 1969, Sanches Sotres et al (J. Periodo. l40: 543-546) confirmed Trott and Sherkat findings.
Critical fact #5:
In 1972, Turgeon et al. (J CDA 37:255-256) reported the presence of very significant erythema around amalgam restorations that was not present at control non-amalgam sites.
Critical fact #6:
In 1973, Trivedi and Talim (J. Prosth. Dentistry, 29:73-81) demonstrated that 62.5% of amalgam sites have inflammatory periodontal tissue reaction.
Thus, as early as 1973, a case can be made that the presence of dental mercury-amalgam results in chronic inflammation and bleeding in the gingival tissue adjacent to it; in other words, in situ amalgam produced chronic Gingivitis.
Critical fact #7:
In 1974, Freden et al. (Odontol. Revy, 25: 207-210) showed that gingival biopsy material from sites not adjacent to amalgam had 1-10 �g mercury/gram of tissue (mean=3); whereas, gingival biopsy sites near amalgams contained 19-380 �g mercury/gram of tissue (mean=147).
Critical fact #8:
In 1976, Goldschmidt et al (J. Perio. Res., 11:108-115) demonstrated that amalgam corrosion products were cytotoxic to gingival cells at concentrations of 10-6; that is, micrograms/gram of tissue.
Critical fact #9:
In 1984, the year of the NIDR/ADA Workshop, Fisher et al (J Oral Rehab, 11:399-405) reported that at amalgam sites alveolar bone loss was very pronounced and statistically significant as compared to control non-amalgam sites! In other words, in situ amalgam produces chronic Periodontitis.
This suggests that placing mercury fillings leads to a dentist-induced disease, periodontal disease, which the same dentists then treat. This is iatrogenesis.
Thus, for the ADA to conclude ``There is no sound scientific evidence supporting a link between amalgam fillings and systemic diseases or chronic illness'' is incorrect. Periodontal disease is one of the most prevalent chronic diseases in Man, and mercury fillings contribute significantly!
Such statements by ADA spokespersons suggest that the ADA and its advisors may be knowingly disinforming the public through the media or they lack an understanding of the scientific research about mercury release from amalgam published in their own journals.
Murray J. Vimy DMD
Clinical Associate Professor
Faculty of Medicine,
University of Calgary.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Challenge tests are not conclusive. If the body is unable to release metals for a variety of reasons (DNA dysregulations is one of them), it will not release them. If aggravated it may simply shift them into other body compartments. Not desirable - it's not easy to get the metals out of the brain.
According to Dr.K., challenge tests may reveal none or some only after several tests. There is no lab test that will tell what remains in the body, even when the challenge shows some or none. Patients have taken challenge tests that were negative while the body harbored a lot of them. My husband was one of them. I got rid of some during my Lyme-tour, but not all of them and I am dumpting the rest of them now.
My husband did not start to release enough, if any, of the huge amounts of metals he was holding in his system until he cleared the DNA errors with the Allergie Immun Therapy. Another discipline, the An Di Energetic Corrector therapy further helps to release the accumulated neurotoxins of all kinds. I have posted about it before.
As long as symptoms persist, consider heavy metal and other toxicity that will not go away by themselves. Lyme is a multifaceted disease as any other chronic condition, whatever you may call it.
The only evidence of possible metal contamination as well as any other infections that we have found reliable are the different forms of energetic testing, if done properly. My favorite is ART (Autonomic Response Testing) and for my own private use a similar application with the tensor.
There is no shortcut to getting well. The only way, absolutely the only way I got well was by getting rid of the toxic load. And at my age, it took every trick of the book.
Take care.
P.S. Yes, guys, the world is round and mercury plus lead eventually kills.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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who does dr k recommend for jaw surgery and RC removal now that hussar has retired.
you can pm info if you prefer.
thanks, lisa
Posts: 92 | From berkeley, ca, usa | Registered: Jan 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Lisag, I don't know. There are one or two in your area. Inquire of the people who are near you. Scott F. may know. Sorry.
Be sure you look at Allergie Immun before you embark into this area. And of course make sure of KPU.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
The ADA is essentially a journal. Patents are owned or rights given by the manufacturers. We get that! Ok you found an erroneous piece of information. Stick to the facts listed by Doctorluddite and mine.
I know you want to just dismiss all these views, but you say all these facts are sooooo full of whatever. So, I'll throw you a softball, now focus, show me without emotion and with pure science if you can why the following fact is doodoo:
Critical fact #9:
In 1984, the year of the NIDR/ADA Workshop, Fisher et al (J Oral Rehab, 11:399-405) reported that at amalgam sites alveolar bone loss was very pronounced and statistically significant as compared to control non-amalgam sites! In other words, in situ amalgam produces chronic Periodontitis.
This suggests that placing mercury fillings leads to a dentist-induced disease, periodontal disease, which the same dentists then treat. This is iatrogenesis.
Thus, for the ADA to conclude ``There is no sound scientific evidence supporting a link between amalgam fillings and systemic diseases or chronic illness'' is incorrect. Periodontal disease is one of the most prevalent chronic diseases in Man, and mercury fillings contribute significantly!
Such statements by ADA spokespersons suggest that the ADA and its advisors may be knowingly disinforming the public through the media or they lack an understanding of the scientific research about mercury release from amalgam published in their own journals.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I got the info about the ADA owning the patent on amalgams from my dentist. I don't think he would make a claim like that without having done his research.
edited to add that a quick internet search shows that the ADA "only" owns 2 amalgam patents and they are actually owned by the ADA Health Foundation
I'm heading back to the lyme threads now.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Imagine a dentist passing erroneous information to patients. Well the ADA did own patents on some of the formulations and they are expired. There was no financial gain from any of these patents. However, there is always an agenda we will never know.
And jlp38 -- no worries, we all know dentists aren't perfect.
Fact #9: Neither the ADA nor the ADA Health Foundation has ever received remuneration from any amalgam restoration ever placed. An internet search [5] revealed that of 67 patents held by the American Dental Association Health Foundation, the non-profit research arm of the American Dental Association, only two were for amalgam formulations (US04078921 & US04018600). The American Dental Association itself has never had a patent on any amalgam formulations. Both of these patents have expired; neither was ever licensed. In other words, neither the ADA nor the ADA Health Foundation has ever received any royalty from any amalgam ever placed. The ADA Health Foundation has not pursued any research activity related to amalgam or its use for more than 15 years. (Eichmiller F, personal communication, February 3, 2000). There is not merely one patent for amalgam; instead there are many different patents for different formulations and applications of amalgams, most of which are owned by the manufacturers, which do receive royalties for their patents.
If there is an incentive for the ADA to "promote" a particular type of restorative material, then it must be resin composite. The ADA (along with the National Bureau of Standards and National Institute of Dental Research) actually funded the invention of composite restorative materials in the 1950s [6,7]. The American Dental Association Health Foundation holds at least 15 patents related to resin composite. Two of these recently expired, but 12 are still active. Most or all of these are licensed, meaning the nonprofit ADA Health Foundation receives a royalty when its patents are used. The American Dental Association has stated that amalgam is safe and effective despite the fact that its research foundation receives financial remuneration for alternative filling materials and no remuneration for amalgam restorative materials. Furthermore, the ADA continues to support more than US $1 million in research each year through the ADA Health Foundation for the development of nonamalgam technologies. Although the ADA does not "promote" any dental material, it has stated that both amalgam [4] and composite restorations are safe and effective.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Thanks Bob -- I saw this and edited my post above.
I think someone mentioned above; we're all gonna believe what we believe. There's nothing wrong with a little healthy debate.
As for me, I will never ever put amalgams in my mouth or my kids. And I would absolutely pull a tooth rather than do a root canal.
As long as we continue in our American freedom to make our own health care decisions I am a happy camper!
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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It looks to me that if perhaps you excrete mercury correctly (many people with diseases such as chronic Lyme and CFS don't), you can possibly excreting near the same amount of urinary Hg content as the amalgam group after about 7 years or more. There seems to be a negative correlation between urinary Hg and time since placement as Hg content falls to levels near the composite group after 7 years. Do the fillings finally settle in stop leaking mercury after 7+ years or do your cells start sequestering it because of the constant burden? It seems that it takes about 2 years for urinary Hg content to reach its peak.
I wonder if urinary Hg excretion would even rise or fall in groups of chronic disease and mercury poisoning as I know our detox systems can be quite impaired.
With all the ADA experts here, I still think composite would be a safer bet. My fillings are composite and I never had a problem, but literally all my amalgams gave out (I guess my teeth didn't like them). I didn't purposely go mercury free. At the time, I was probably more interested in the aesthetics of the composite fillings, and most likely my dentist talked me into them as well. It was too long ago for me to remember. I thought I had a mercury filling or two left, but I guess they are crowns.
Corruption and misinformation from the FDA, ADA, AMA, CDC, NIH, etc should not be seen as conspiracy theories. Based on history, corruption, extreme bias, and misinformation should be expected from these organizations. Doesn't history generally repeat itself? Or am I wrong?
However, that being said, most Americans ignore history and seem to have blind faith in these organizations. When there is a large enough group of people challenging these organizations, that's when the truth comes out and things generally change for the better. A recent example is the large group of CFS patients along with researchers challenging the NIH. Isn't it amazing they are finally paying attention after 25 years of complete ignorance.
[ 10-27-2010, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: kday ]
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
BigZ123 -- just because someone is still breathing and able to eat doesn't mean there isn't harmful effects. The first amalgam maybe your body accumulated 1.2 ug/ml of mercury second year it 2.5 ug/ml, third year 3.8. The growth accumulates, the person after 10 years with the amalgam develops tendinitus or tinnitus, constant strep infections, or swollen glands around the throat. It's ok BigZ123, your patients won't directly make you responsible for the amalgams, because they'll never make the connection. Oh wait a minute, maybe they will, maybe science will prove the tinnitus and the amalgam is the cause. Oh again, just like asbestos oriented lawsuits, the lawyers may end up trolling the dental waters.
One last item for me, I would try like heck not to have a root canal. But I would have one if I needed one, and I'd prefer to save the tooth then have it removed. Once I had the root canal I would deal with any infection with a good dentist. Just my opinion.
2. Mercury in the presence of other metals in the oral environment undergoes galvanic action, causing movement out of amalgam and into the oral mucosa and saliva(174,192,436,179,199). Mercury in solid form is not stable due to low vapor pressure and evaporates continuously from amalgam fillings in the mouth, being transferred over a period of time to the host(15-19,26,31,36,79,83,211,182,183,199,298,299,303,332,335,371). The daily total exposure of mercury from fillings is from 3 to 1000 micrograms per day, with the average exposure being above 10 micrograms per day and the average uptake over 5 ug/day (183,199,209,18,19,77,83, 85,100,335,352,371,etc.). (see further details continued)
A large study was carried out at the Univ. Of Tubingen Health Clinic in which the level of mercury in saliva of 20,000 persons with amalgam fillings was measured(199). The level of mercury in unstimulated saliva was found to average 11.6 ug Hg/L, with the average after chewing being 3 times this level. Several were found to have mercury levels over 1100 ug/L, 1 % had unstimulated levels over 200 ug/L, and 10 % had unstimulated mercury saliva levels of over 100 ug/L.. The level of mercury in saliva has been found to be proportional to the number of amalgam fillings, and generally was higher for those with more fillings. The following table gives the average daily mercury exposure from saliva alone for those tested, based on the average levels found per number of fillings and using daily saliva volumes of 890 ml for unstimulated saliva flow and 80 ml for stimulated flow (estimated from measurements made in the study and comparisons to other studies). It also gives the 84th percentile mercury exposure from saliva for the 20,000 tested by number of fillings. Note that 16% of all of those tested with 4 amalgam fillings had daily exposure from their amalgam fillings of over 17 ug per day, and even more so for those with more than 4 fillings.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Stumbled onto this thread and just tossing in my own amlagam removal experience. Sorry no research to contribute.
For what it is worth, for years I had excrutiating pain on the top left rear side of my molars. Went to the dentist for years complaining and nothing ever showed on xrays. He insisted it was sinus or other caused....not teeth.
Last fall I couldn't take the pain anymore, saw a different dentist and said just pull it. I don't care. I can't go through this. Ready to blow the top of my head off pain. She begged me to please let her try removing the amalgam from the tooth on the opposite right side of my mouth saying the meridian lines from both teeth intersected somewhere in the body and she thought the amalgam could be the cause of the pain.
I was a huge skeptic and this sounded like crazy crap logic to me. I wanted to just have the tooth pulled but my husband was adamant that we at least try her suggestion first. I was not very happy about him not agreeing with me, but far too weak and sick to argue (severe chronic lyme). So, she removed the amalgam. Within weeks the MANY YEARS of dental pain in that tooth on the LEFT side was gone. I still can't believe it and definitely can't explain it.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Very interesting story jam. Research is good, but there are some things the research just doesn't explain.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
Unfortunately, if I had all my amalgam fillings removed I'd be missing at least 7 teeth My old dentist went way overboard filling my teeth years ago. If I could afford it, and deal with that many missing teeth then I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I did have a hair test done and mercury wasn't high at all (I totally expected it to be) I also expected to be high for lead, since I worked in a lead smelting factory for a year. Not high either.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Interpretation of hair tests are often done incorrectly. I posted this on the "Allergie Immun Germany" thread this morning:
How to Read Hair Analysis - Doctor's Data $46.
I learned this many years ago: First one needs to look at the Essential Minerals (which are also shown on Doctor's Data test) - the copper, zinc, etc. and you can tell from there whether they show as fairly normal, moderately disturbed or very severely disturbed when they are all on the under 50percentile side of the test.
Then you check the Toxin levels (upper portion of the test). If the mineral metabolism (below) is severely disturbed and the toxic metals (mercury, lead, etc. not coming out, that means severely heavy metal toxic.
If the toxic metals (upper portion of the test) are not showing and are mostly absent or very low and the good metals are all on the left side of the test below the 50%ile it means severe toxicity levels (being held by the body).
A mild case of "almost-done-with-detox" is the one where the minerals look absolutely beautiful and everything is square in the middle of where it should be.
The moderate (in between) condition is when mineral disturbance is moderate and with moderate toxic metals showing.
With the hair test, you have to look at what is not there and then look at the others. When looking at the hair test, it is the absence of toxic metals and the severity of the disturbance of the good metals/minerals that makes the diagnosis of severe mercury and/or other metal toxicity.
If I knew how to copy my hairtest on here, I would do it. It is easier to understand if you have the test in front of you. But I am still a computer novice.
If you do not show any toxic minerals or barely any on that type test, plus your good essential minerals are shown as deficient (all on the lefthand side of that test, under 50percentile), chances are that you are severely heavy metal toxic. They are only able to leave the body if your essential minerals are not deficient.
Some day I will try to say that more clearly. But right now am busy with a 100 other things.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote: I myself have four large amalgam fillings, and when tested for heavy metals, my mercury was completely normal.
I knew a dentist like you who had a few amalgam fillings and thought that amalgams were safe. Then one day he began having neurological symptoms; couldn't feel his hand and had peripheral neuropathy symptoms. He had hair analysis tests and urine tests done and they indicated no mercury.
After further testing, he found later that he in fact had lots of mercury that was tightly bound to the fatty tissues in the brain (and other places in the body). It was so tightly bound that it was not being excreted by the body and not showing up on tests. Then he became educated.
After a lengthy removal and chelation process, he converted to being a holistic dentist, got certified by the IAOMT, the whole nine yards. Now he's singing a completely different tune.
If you have not had a problem with mercury, it is likely that you have not yet reached a threshold where it would cause problems for you. But the longer those things are in your mouth, the longer you will continue to absorb mercury. Every time you chew, eat acidic foods, hot liquids, you are releasing and inhaling mercury vapors. Metal crowns react with amalgam buildups that cause even more to be released. The amalgams in your mouth are a ticking time bomb. Maybe due to genetics and other factors in your favor, they might not ever cause you a problem, but you're playing a game of roulette. My troubles began immediately after I had an amalgam filling removed without all of the precautions taken per the IAOMT guidelines. I wasn't so lucky.
quote: Replacing amalgam fillings unnecessarily will lead to repeated trauma to the tooth in question. By exposing it to the heat from the drill, it will become inflamed and later down the road probably need a root canal.
This heat and trauma can be avoided using the proper equipment at slower RPMs. I'm surprised that you didn't know this.
quote: I agree mercury is not good for you. But the amount in dental amalgam is next to nothing.
They are at least 50% mercury. You call that next to nothing? The mercury contained in one amalgam filling is enough to kill a herd of elephants.
quote: Amalgams do release mercury. The amount is extremely small compared to the other environmental exposures such as canned fish.
AHA! THERE! You admitted it. And while the amounts in vapor released from fillings in perhaps one day may be small, it accumulates over time. And when the fillings are removed with no precautions, that's when the mega-exposure occurs.
Dentists have very explicit instructions regarding the storage and handling of dental amalgam, i.e., storing under water, etc. What makes them safe all of a sudden when they are jammed in and bonded to a hole in a person's tooth?
quote: If it was so bad as everyone is saying, why would it not be banned? Why would the government want to make sure it is still used, they are getting nothing out of it. If it was so dangerous as everyone says, it wouldn't be used anymore.
I don't know, but it's probably because the ADA and the govt. would probably be held liable for allowing the perpetuation of amalgam's use since the dangers of amalgam have been documented since as early as the 1800s. There would be so many lawsuits, it would be staggering.
quote: As I said before, I am not going to post any more on this topic.
That's a smart move, because you are in way over your head on this. The fact is that there is overwhelming evidence, scientific as well as anecdotal and clinical on the side of the anti-amalgamists.
If I were you, I'd research the topic of mercury-related problems that are common to dentists such as mental illness and suicide. Protect yourself and be well.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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They already know they lost the debate. Science and logic is against them.
Why debate when you can't defend your opinion with science?
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Chaps. I am done writing about amalgam as I had previously stated. But please don't try to teach me about dentistry. Any form of heat or friction will cause inflammation of the pulp. No matter how much coolant and air you use, it will still become inflamed, especially as you get closer to the pulp.
You said that in years I will get symptoms from mercury in amalgams. Then why do my older patients that I see in their 60's and 70's with many amalgams are completely healthy??
In regards to your story about the dentist singing a different tune. Haha, what can I say? He is probably doing quite well for himself now financially making tons of people like you, who would be stupid enough to believe his story.
I do not know what you do for a living, nor do I particularly care. But I will not question your knowledge about your profession. I went to university for 9 years, have a BSc. masters in microbiology, and DDS.
I will respect your opinion on the amalgam matter, I hope you will do the same.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
People live into their 90's smoking cigarettes too! You have some smokers in your practice, any in their 60 and 70's. To be a smoker means to sacrifice you health in time. Each person is different it's hard to tell the cancer casualty from a smoker to someone overloaded with mercury.
Check the facts about how much mercury is found at the crematorium. If that fact doesn't bother you, I'm not sure what kind of clinician you are one who'd perfer to act under the guidelines of the ADA or the health of your patients. If I were you in all conscious, I would want to see more science for the safety of amalgams at least from the ADA. And not just assurances there is no problem with the material. The material is also one we inflict on our water supplies in the air by handling. There are bigger issues with mercury then amalgam in the mouth.
You should try and use all the science the ADA has put together, I'm sure they must have some.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote: You said that in years I will get symptoms from mercury in amalgams.
I didn't say that you would, but you're taking an awfully big gamble.
quote:Then why do my older patients that I see in their 60's and 70's with many amalgams are completely healthy??
I thought I explained that about genetics and toxic thresholds, but apparently it went over your head.
My mother-in-law is 79 years old, has smoked cigarettes 2+ packs/day since she was 16 yrs. old. My father, 83 years old drank alcohol every day of his life often to excess for as long as I can remember. They're both alive, kicking, and healthy. Does that mean that smoking hasn't caused premature deaths due to lung cancer and a plethora of other maladies? Does that mean that alcohol is healthy and doesn't cause cirrhosis of the liver among many other things?
Come on, man. Take your head out of the sand. And by the way, don't call other people stupid. It only diminishes your credibility even further.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I went into remission for 12 years until a new tick bite when I had my amalgams removed then chelated metals.
I have KPU, so I do have trouble detoxing. I also grind my teeth at night. I would find that I had more symptoms on the nights I grinded than the nights I didn't.
I had mine removed almost 20 years ago and I'm very happy I did.
I know this is a subject that can be debated from both sides all day long. Neither side will budge in their opinion. I personally think some people detox so well they can be loaded and loaded with garbage their whole lives and have few problems, whereas others of us can't detox even a little. Everyone admits that mercury vapor is released from amalgams, and for some of us that "small amount" is devastating.
posted
No it didn't go over my head. If you could explain to me how genetics plays a role, I must have missed that. What is the threshold for effects to be seen? I am curious, because people that I have seen have about 12-14 amalgam fillings for 20+ years, and are fine.
I am not on here to put people down. I will not change my opinion on the matter. As soon as I start to see this first hand, I might reconsider, but I have yet to see it.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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quote:Originally posted by bigz123: I will not change my opinion on the matter. As soon as I start to see this first hand, I might reconsider, but I have yet to see it.
You will most likely never see it. Most of us who become aware of it go to a dentist who takes more precautions for our removal. I can TELL you first hand about my experience, but there's no way for you to see it yourself.
My health changes were DRAMATIC. I stopped having disabling Lyme flares for TWELVE years until I got bitten again and was under a significant amount of stress.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Well I am a dentist. If someone becomes aware of it, they will come see me! I'm not saying I don't believe you. I've been doing this for a while, and have yet to see anyone with any symptoms or complain of it. I have also never heard this from any of my colleagues. There are no" holistic " dentists where I live also, so I'm a bit surprised no one has seen anything yet.
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
As a person who was considered to be a hypochondriac for decades by family members and medical professionals alike, I would NEVER talk to a "regular" dentist regarding my health problems that possibly originated from mercury fillings. EVER. (except maybe on a Lyme forum, and even now I probably won't participate for long)
I have a friend who is a dentist. I would NEVER talk to him about it. I would NEVER talk to my own dentist about it. I don't need to be treated like I'm crazy and ignorant like I have regarding my Lyme Disease most of my life.
I was ridiculed for my Lyme treatment by my ex-gynecologist, I would never willingly put myself in that position again.
People with "Dr." as a title are the least likely people that I will discuss my health problems with. Fortunately, most LLMD's seem to understand why we Lyme patients tend to be this way.
Because of my openness to alternative ideas, I am 100% better from Lyme and am not on any maintenance program. I have been well for over a year now and off antibiotics for two years.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Well I am glad to hear you are better, I am not questioning you. I know what it feels like being called a hypochondriac with lyme, after going through 9 different doctors. I just think it's weird that not a single patient of mine has brought up the issue, especially with no holistic dentists where I live. If I had a problem with amalgam fillings and wanted to get them removed, the first person I would go to is a dentist. I have had no one approach me for this reason, except for esthetic purposes. Maybe one day I will see it! For now I will stay put. I am off for an emergency call, have a good night six!
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I actually don't think many trace it back to the amalgams just like they don't trace it back to Lyme. Plus, I don't think it's *only* amalgams.
As you have said, many have amalgams and are healthy, just like many smoke and are healthy or many drink diet sodas all day and are healthy.
I had Lyme and KPU so was set up for being toxic with the amalgams. It would have been easy to overlook. My husband had his out, too, but had no health changes whatsoever. He's still glad he did it.
And you are correct about the fish. I don't eat much fish at all for that reason and on the rare occasion that I do, I take zeolite to bind at least some of the metals I'm exposed to.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote: If you could explain to me how genetics plays a role, I must have missed that. What is the threshold for effects to be seen? I am curious, because people that I have seen have about 12-14 amalgam fillings for 20+ years, and are fine.
If I have to explain to you about genetic factors in susceptibility to illness, immunity, toxic capacity, and detox capability, then I'm convinced that you're not a physician.
Yes, I know about the patients with fillings who are fine, I already explained that.
I've answered all the questions in your posts. You've answered none of mine.
You seem to think that holistic dentistry is a scam perpetrated by practitioners who just want to make more money on gullible victims.
The truth is, people who are most vociferous about mercury poisoning from amalgam fillings are not holistic dentists. They are mostly people who stand nothing to gain from people having their fillings replaced, along with people who have already fallen victim to the effects of mercury poisoning and are trying to spread the word and spare others from this suffering.
You promise to discontinue posting on the topic, yet you keep coming back, repeating the same weak arguments over and over after they've been effectively refuted. You can't come up with scientific proof that amalgams are safe, because all of the science proves the contrary.
The lack of depth in your posts makes it hard to believe that you're a physician. Please keep your promise.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Mercury toxicity symptoms are extremely similar to Lyme/co-infection symptoms.
Eerie, eh? You sure you are not mercury toxic? Most, if not all lab tests for determining metal toxicity is questionable at best.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
Chaps. Please find me a single article that shows there is a genetic relationship with mercury toxicity. I'm not a physician, I never claimed to be one. I am a dentist. Like I said. I have never once had a problem with any amalgam fillings in any patients. Don't you think that I would be affected the most, as I am placing all of them? Both of my uncles are dentists as well, no problems what so ever. I guess our "genetics" has really helped us out on this one. hahaha
Posts: 188 | From Winnipeg | Registered: Dec 2009
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
big wrote: Please find me a single article that shows there is a genetic relationship with mercury toxicity.
I spent less than 2 minutes to find the article below.
This Canadian article states that there is a growing database on genetic predisposition to health effects associated with Hg(0) exposure. It also states that there are gender differences in uptake.
Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 2009 Feb;53(1):32-8. Epub 2008 Nov 1.
Mercury vapour (Hg(0)): Continuing toxicological uncertainties, and establishing a Canadian reference exposure level.
Richardson GM, Brecher RW, Scobie H, Hamblen J, Samuelian J, Smith C.
Contaminated Sites Division, Health Canada, Ottawa, Ont., Canada K1A 0K9.
Abstract There are four published reference exposure levels (RELs) for Hg(0), ranging from 0.09microg/m(3) to 1microg/m(3). All RELs were derived from the same toxicological database, predominantly of male chloralkali workers. Some key factors are apparent which make the use of that database questionable for REL derivation.
Occupational studies of chloralkali workers are not an appropriate basis for a REL for Hg(0). Concomitant exposure to chlorine gas (Cl(2)) diminishes uptake and effects of Hg(0) exposure.
There are gender differences in Hg(0) uptake, distribution and excretion, with females at potentially greater risk from Hg(0) exposure than males. Studies of chloralkali workers focused almost exclusively on adult males.
Recent investigations of dental professionals (dentists, technicians, assistants) have failed to define a threshold in the dose-response relationship linking Hg(0) with neurobehavioural outcomes, an observation generally ignored in Hg(0) REL development.
Finally, there is a growing database on genetic predisposition to health effects associated with Hg(0) exposure.
Based on these considerations, we propose a different key study for REL derivation, one that involved male and female dental professionals without concomitant Cl(2) exposure. Adjusting the LOEAL to continuous exposure and applying appropriate UF values, we propose a Canadian REL for Hg(0) of 0.06microg/m(3).
PMID: 18992295 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Sorry, I can't post the whole article because I get an error message. You can look it up using the title in pubmed.
Neurotoxicol Teratol. 2006 Jan-Feb;28(1):39-48. Epub 2005 Dec 15.
The association between a genetic polymorphism of coproporphyrinogen oxidase, dental mercury exposure and neurobehavioral response in humans.
Battelle Centers for Public Health Research and Evaluation, 1100 Dexter Avenue North, Suite 400, Seattle, WA 98109, United States. [email protected]
These exploratory findings suggest that the CPOX4 polymorphism may affect susceptibility for specific neurobehavioral functions associated with mercury exposure in human subjects.
PMID: 16343843 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
"Generally, children (or adults) who are good methylators will have less viral and heavy metal toxins in their body, in contrast to poor methylators who will have more viral load and heavy metal toxins."
"Another way of saying this is that the child (or adult) who does not carrying increase mutations in the MTHFr, CBS, MTR, and MTRR enzyme pathways may be more capable of excreting heavy metals."
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Hadlyme and Bigz : can't you find anything scientific to support using amalgams. Hadlyme's justification for using amalgams, "Us in the dental field will think and know what is correct and right". I'm really disappointed, there must something even trumped up. To think you have dental degrees and you can't support your position on amalgams. All I can say is WOW!
To all of us in the lyme world, some of the practioners we've seen who said our symptoms were in our heads probably also took the course of just knowing. Gee, all those painful symptoms, yep, you got to see a psychologist because those symptoms are in your head. Why I am I so sure, well I took a great course in college called just knowing. I bet we've all seen a lot of professionals from the land of just knowing.
I have theory that just knowing is a lame excuse for not doing your homework. It includes dentists and practioners who feel too comfortable for what they think they know!
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Hadlyme and Bigz : can't you find anything scientific to support using amalgams. Hadlyme's justification for using amalgams, "Us in the dental field will think and know what is correct and right". I'm really disappointed, there must something even trumped up. To think you have dental degrees and you can't support your position on amalgams. All I can say is WOW!
Interesting, too, that both Lymie and I are completely well and addressed heavy metals .... there are two cases.
I will admit that the amalgams are stronger than the other materials and maybe easier to use, definitely cheaper. I will also admit that they were the best technology when they were first introduced, what, a hundred years ago???
They did have a significant negative impact on my health.
It would be very interesting if you in the dental field would address heavy metals and see how it impacted the symptoms you are having that are attributed to Lyme Disease. Lyme Disease is much more complicated that *only* borrelia.
You also may want to address parasites. Parasites absorb heavy metals and I've heard it postulated that perhaps our body allows them to protect us from heavy metals.
Lymie and I both went through many treatments for things other than bacteria in order to get completely well. Maybe the best way for you to have first hand knowledge is to see if chelation affects you at all .... you have two people here, no three, GiGi also said it helped her, who say it made a big difference.
Their use was grandfathered in by the FDA, I wonder if they would even be approved today considering the FDA has them categorized as a moderate risk?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Adding mercury to the detox load of the body is going to have an effect, which may not be noticed immediately, but will be specific to the phenotype of the individual and also related to the rest of the toxin load and nutritional status of the individual. Not everyone will be "mad as a hatter" two minutes after amalgam placement. Whatever the problem though, it is unlikely that the individual will present to their dentist with the complaint, more likely to a/their physician who will come up with a snappy diagnosis but be unable to answer the patient's next questions: "Why me?", and "Why now?"
It is this disconnect between caregivers that we need to address to really illuminate the problem.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Bigz, since you're interested in articles, here's a history of amalgam fillings for you to peruse. Pay particular attention to the discoveries in 1989.
And for those for whom megadoses of antibiotics have not been effective in treating Lyme, pay particular attention to Anne Sommers' discovery in 1993:
1819: A mercury-based dental amalgam filling was invented by the English chemist, Bell.
1826: The dental amalgam mercury filling was first used in England and France.
1830: Amalgam fillings were first used in the United States. Numerous harmful effects were soon widely reported.
1840: The American Society of Dental Surgeons denounced the use of amalgams due to concerns about mercury poisoning. Members of the society were required to pledge to avoid the mercury amalgam fillings. But many dentists continued using amalgams, since they were cheaper, faster and easier to place than gold materials.
1859: Determined to continue, the pro-mercury amalgam faction in America formed its own dental society, first called the National Dental Association; it later became the American Dental Association (ADA).
1926: Prominent German chemist Alfred Stock discovered that mercury was the source of his own health problems. After having his own amalgams removed, Stock then studied the health problems of many of his friends and advised them to have their amalgams removed. He studied the release of mercury vapor from amalgams and published his findings in over thirty scientific papers. Stock led an international movement to halt use of mercury amalgam filling.
1930s: Stock's laboratory and most of his records were destroyed in a World War II bombing raid, derailing the anti-amalgam mercury movement that he had led.
1957: Dr. Karl O. Frykholm of Sweden published a study wrongly claiming that when saliva covers an amalgam filling, the mercury is no longer released. Ever since then, the ADA has cited Frykholm's paper as a proof that amalgam fillings are stable and safe.
1973: An American dentist suffering from MS, Hal Huggins, DDS, met a Brazilian dentist, Olympia Pinto, at a conference in Mexico City. Dr. Pinto shocked Muggins by telling him that amalgam fillings are unstable and mercury from amalgams can trigger illnesses like Hodgkin's disease and sickle cell anemia. Eventually Dr. Pinto sent Dr. Muggins many studies on amalgam research. After learning about the amalgam-health issue, Muggins researched and wrote his first major book on the hazards of amalgams.
1979: Measureable Mercury coming from Amalgam. Gay and others at the University of Iowa reported a measurable release of mercury vapor from amalgam fillings; when the amalgams were stimulated by chewing, brushing or hot beverages the release was far greater. In 1981 Svare, at Ohio State, confirmed Gay's findings.
1987: A Swedish study by Nylander, Friberg and Lind measured mercury levels in the brains of people who had died suddenly and unexpectedly. The mercury levels in the occipital lobe brain cortex correlated significantly with the number of amalgam fillings in the person's mouth.
1987: Nylander of Sweden and Eggleston of California, did a similar autopsy study on victims of sudden, unexpected death. They confirmed a strong correlation between brain levels of mercury and the number of amalgam filling surfaces in the teeth.
1989: Dentists Poisoned. Nylander and Friberg published an autopsy study showing that mercury levels were much higher in the pituitary glands and the thyroid glands of dental staff as compared to a non-dentist control group. The mercury levels in the pituitary glands of the dental group was about forty times higher than that of the controls. Other studies found dentists to have a higher rate of irritability, depression and mood disorders. Dentists have a much higher suicide rate than other white collar professionals.
1990: Lorscheider and Vimy at the University of Calgary School of Medicine placed amalgam fillings with radioactive mercury into pregnant sheep and monkeys. After just 29 days after the placement of the mercury amalgams, the mercury was traced and found in the kidneys, the liver, the gastrointestinal tract, the brain, and many other parts of the body including the unborn fetus. For both the mother and the fetus, the highest mercury level was in the pituitary gland, explaining the clinical association between amalgams and depression and mood disorder.
1983: University of Calgary research dentist Murray Vimy, joined with Michael Ziff, an American dentist and author, to found the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT) to educate dentists and other professionals about evidence based dentistry. With his father, Sam Ziff, Michael Ziff went on to author books on such topics as mercury free dentistry and dental mercury detox 1988 DAMS groups, formed in Albuquerque, Denver, Chicago and elsewhere, begin to educate the public.
December 16, 1990: The CBS television show Sixty Minutes, hosted by Morley Safer, and viewed by 30 million Americans, exposed the hazards of mercury amalgams; the host interviewed scientists Lars Friberg, Fritz Lorscheider, Murray Vimy and Boyd Haley. The program also exposed the biased attacks by state dental licensing boards on mercury free, holistic dentists. The ADA spokesmen squirmed under cross examination by the host. This sort of dental amalgam expose was never repeated again on any TV network. This entire segment can now be viewed on YouTube.
1993: Its All in Your Head, by Hal Huggins began making further headway in expanding public awareness of the amalgam mercury problem.
1993: Anne Sommers, Ph.D., a microbiologist, reported that the placement of mercury amalgam fillings in monkeys and in humans causes a major shift in the kinds of bacteria found in the intestines. Through natural selection, some bacteria survive the mercury poison and are mercury resistant. Interestingly, the mercury resistant were found to have become anti�biotic resistant; Sommers concluded that amalgams tend to produce more anti-biotic resistant bacteria.
1993, December: The largest German manufacturer of amalgam, Degussa AG, stopped making amalgam.
1994: Sweden announced phase out of amalgam fillings, starting with pregnant women and children.
1994: Lorscheider, Vimy, Pendergrass and Haley reported that elemental mercury vapor from amalgam fillings is toxic to brain neurons. Low-dose mercury causes the neurofibrillary tangles in the brain regarded as a key marker of Alzheimer's disease.
1994: A human autopsy study on babies who had died of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) was published by G. Drasch and others at the University of Munich in Germany. They found a strong correlation between the mercury levels in the brains and kidneys of the babies and the number of amalgam fillings in the mothers' teeth. These findings were confirmed by another autopsy study conducted in 1996 by Lutz. These studies showed that mercury from a mother's mercury amalgam fillings is typically the major source of mercury for the unborn child. The German government then acted to curb the use of amalgams in children and women of child bearing age.
1995: G. Mark Richardson, Ph.D., released a report for Health Canada, Canada's chief health regulatory body, on mercury exposure from dental amalgam fillings. He found that amalgams contribute about 50% or more of an adult's mercury exposure and present an unacceptable hazard. Dr. Richardson advised Health Canada to ban dental amalgams; although it was unwilling to go that far, in 1996 Health Canada established guidelines for dentists cautioning against the use of amalgams in children, pregnant women, people with kidney disorders and other vulnerable people.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by bigz123: Chaps. Please find me a single article that shows there is a genetic relationship with mercury toxicity. I'm not a physician, I never claimed to be one. I am a dentist. Like I said. I have never once had a problem with any amalgam fillings in any patients. Don't you think that I would be affected the most, as I am placing all of them? Both of my uncles are dentists as well, no problems what so ever. I guess our "genetics" has really helped us out on this one. hahaha
You seem to be ill. No?
So much for those genetics.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:Originally posted by DoctorLuddite: Adding mercury to the detox load of the body is going to have an effect, which may not be noticed immediately, but will be specific to the phenotype of the individual and also related to the rest of the toxin load and nutritional status of the individual. Not everyone will be "mad as a hatter" two minutes after amalgam placement. Whatever the problem though, it is unlikely that the individual will present to their dentist with the complaint, more likely to a/their physician who will come up with a snappy diagnosis but be unable to answer the patient's next questions: "Why me?", and "Why now?"
It is this disconnect between caregivers that we need to address to really illuminate the problem.
Very well said.
If your patients start getting irritable and angry 10 years after a few amalgams were placed, do you honestly think they are going to come back to you?
Most likely they will see the primary care physician. And unless they are a "quack" doctor (as you would probably like to put it), they aren't going to be looking at your amalgams. Their physician will blame everything on stress, and probably refer you to a psychiatrist. Perhaps the body will be able to eventually handle the burden on its own, and you will be able to go off psychiatric medication. If it's more severe, perhaps they will keep you on psychiatric medicine. Perhaps you will start developing other true PHYSICAL symptoms, but despite your intuition, this will all be attributed to your anxiety/irritability, and then you end up on more "psych" medications (maybe something like Lyrica) in attempt to control your increasing symptoms.
Our medical care system doesn't see the body as one. It's a problem.
Mercury toxicity may not make your teeth/gums hurt, but even if it does, the symptoms will be seen as and most likely addressed as periodontal disease, and your dentist is not going to care about or even question you about all the other symptoms you have. That's for your physician/psychiatrist to manage.
You've probably never seen a case of mercury toxicity, and most likely you never will. That's not what your looking for as a dentist. Or am I wrong again?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming you for not seeing it. After all, are you even allowed to order things like mercury toxicity screens (I don't know the answer to this question)? And even if you could, I'm sure you wouldn't as that may just throw up red flags, and put your license at risk. Insurance companies don't like doctors that do things that are not medically accepted in our current system. That's a reason why doctors who are not trapped in the box of western medicine (and focus more on diet, nutrition, supplements, and wellness) usually don't take insurance.
I think in many cases, when a patient has MUPS, or "idiopathic diseases", the physician fails to look as the body as a whole. It's not their fault. They aren't trained to be holistic.
Posts: 967 | From A deserted island without internet access | Registered: Sep 2009
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BackinStOlaf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23725
posted
I'm in the process of removing mine. 6 down, 10 to go....
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
The anti-amalgamists have cited abundant examples of anecdotal and scientific proof of the deadly effects of dental amalgam. And all the pro-amalgamists can say are things akin to "Oh yeah, well you're wrong, you're gullible" with nothing to back it up except statements like "I haven't seen it."
Let me tell you something--I WISH amalgams didn't cause a wide variety of problems. I WISH they didn't have a synergistic effect on Lyme that makes it resistant to treatment while also causing other neurological diseases. I can't tell you how I wish you were right. I WISH you could come up with scientific proof that they are not harmful. I WISH you could explain away all of the scientific and anecdotal proof of amalgam's harmful and deadly effects on the human body. In a way, I was secretly rooting for you, hoping you could come up with a good argument, some new proof that hasn't yet been brought to light. But unfortunately for myself and many others, you haven't done this.
Don't give me this "you believe what you want to believe, I'll believe what I want to believe" baloney. This is a debate. You're supposed to provide evidence that proves your case. When you say things such as that, you're admitting defeat.
The door is still open to making educated rebuttals with some substance, but you've already failed to do this with ample opportunity. The reason is simple. The science is simply not on your side. You can't win a battle with no ammunition.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
I do have to say, though... my regular dentist who knows nothing about Lyme told me that all the amalgam fillings in my mouth could probably be a major cause of my neuro. issues.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
The dentist I went to before having problems admits that some of his patients were given instructions by their doctors to have their amalgams removed. He removed them (not using the safe amalgam removal equipment or procedures other than a rubber dam) and he said that the patients' subsequently recovered from their respective illnesses.
Although this dentist is not a holistic dentist, he has not placed amalgam fillings for at least ten years. He does remove them though.
It's funny about the ADA. They don't want dentists to remove and replace amalgam fillings with composites unless there's decay under the amalgams. They say that removing them for no other reason than the dangers (which they deny) can cause more problems due to the exposure incurred while removing them. Well, isn't that the contradiction of the century??!! They claim they're safe, but they they turn around and tell you don't remove them if you don't have to because of the additional mercury exposure it causes. That's unbelievable!
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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quote:Originally posted by bigz123: The amount is extremely small compared to the other environmental exposures such as canned fish.
If that is a true statement, I think it is pretty important to this discussion.
Is that the case, that normal environmental exposure is a greater contributor than amalgams?
Posts: 152 | From West Palm Bech, FL | Registered: May 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
******** MODERATOR'S NOTE - KEEP THIS THREAD ON TOPIC. The insults and irrelevant conversation need to stop. I have deleted many posts that included insults. It's too time consuming to edit. Please limit discussion to amalgams and their safety. Thank you! **********
PS Please let me know if I missed any snide comments by reporting the post. Editing this thread was quite a project. Thanks.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Most Lyme Disease specialists that I've spoken to agree that it's better "not" to have the mercury fillings because Lyme Disease patients, especially chronic cases of long duration, often have compromised immunity or abnormal immune responses.
Dr. H, perhaps the foremost authority still treating Lyme Disease since Dr. Burrascano retired also treats patients for mercury toxicity and asks his patient's to have them removed if possible. Upon speaking to him he said "We find that many patients with Lyme Disease, often also have abnormal heavy metal levels. The sicker the individual, the more common it appears to be. We also find that when a patient is co-infected with things like Babesia, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, or Bartonella, that this compounds the problem. We prefer to use gentle methods of Chelation, but we will prescribe DMSA if necessary and pulse the protocol accordingly."
What it comes down to is this. We were told Lyme Disease wasn't serious. It is. We were told co-infections aren't very serious, they are. We were told no conspiracy existed, a conspiracy was found by the Attorney General of Connecticut involving conflicts of interest. We're told a lot of things, but Lyme Disease defies the nature of what seems reasonable. It constantly creates deeper and deeper controversy the deeper your dig. Patients with Lyme Disease -- for whatever reason -- are much much more sensitive to environmental toxicity, infection, and stress. We don't understand why.
We're told a lot of things, and science doesn't have a whole lot of answers for us that aren't tainted by someone's agenda.
If my specialist recommends I have Amalgams out, I'd do it. If my LLMD told me it wasn't a big deal, I'd probably listen to him/her if I trusted them and the routine they had me on was already working.
Fortunately, I never even had cavities growing up, and I still don't. I was tested however, and sadly I did in-fact have high levels of Lead, Mercury, Cadmium, and Aluminum. I did chelation for about 6 months. Unfortunately this did not change my symptom picture. Medicare paid for the testing and treatment.
At any rate Nicholas Davis, DDS, president of the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry says: " As far as mercury in fillings goes, "If I had immune problems or anything that would make me subject to getting an infection, I would do anything I could to boost my immune system and decrease my chance of infection including purging all metals from my mouth," Davis tells WebMD. But "for the general public, mercury in fillings is not that much of a problem."
This article is pretty interesting and covers the different view points over the issue. I lean towards having them removed when Lyme Disease and neurological symptoms are involved.
posted
I had my amalgams removed about 8 yrs ago. Funny that that is when I turned the corner with my Lyme disease treatment.
I never said anything to my dentist about my illness. I found out that the amalgams could be part of my problem and began searching for a biological dentist to remove them.
I'm glad I did it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I have been interested in doing this for quite a few years now, but had forgotten about it with everything else going on.
I'm in Maryland. Anyone know of a good holistic dentist that does mercury filling removals?
Posts: 217 | From Earth | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:But "for the general public, mercury in fillings is not that much of a problem."
It's not that much of a problem until it becomes a problem.
It seems that this Dr. is confused about know which came first, the chicken, or the egg.
It's the mercury exposure that causes terrain issues in the stomach which lead to digestive problems, which lead to a compromised immune system. Amalgam fillings are the first domino that sends the rest of them tumbling.
quote:I'm in Maryland. Anyone know of a good holistic dentist that does mercury filling removals?
If you contact DAMS International, they will mail you a list of practitioners in your area. This web page contains the phone number: http://www.flcv.com/dams.html
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
For those of you who have had mercury removal would you mind sharing the cost of your procedure?
I'm trying to get an idea of how much per tooth I would be looking at as I do not have dental insurance at the moment.
If you know of any good dental insurance that would be great too!
Posts: 217 | From Earth | Registered: Feb 2010
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Problems are not eliminated simply be removing the amalgams. The toxic metals/mercury move into the central nervous system within hours of the installation of the amalgams. This is clearly evidenced by the Lorscheider, etc. study and all the other research available. To eliminate metals, detox has to be done addressing all the body. It can take months or years. If not removed/detoxed/, often problems will persist and fungal problems becoming more severe to the point where they eventually penetrate anywhere and become systemic. Fungi and mold problems are the worst - they definitely can move into the brain.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
The estimate I received was $30,0000.00 for my case. That includes the removal and replacement of 3 teeth with amalgam fillings, the removal of a root canal tooth replaced by bridge and crowns of two adjacent teeth, removal of 7 crowns with amalgam buildups underneath, replaced with composite buildups and porcelain crowns, and bridging of a missing molar.
I would not consider replacing any missing teeth with an implant after reading about the risks pointed out by DAMS International which are as follows:
1. The bite can be too hard, the fixture, collar, and tooth system lacks the periodontal ligament shock-absorbing cushion that a natural tooth has.
2. The gums do not snug up to an implant the way they do with a natural tooth, leaving an opening for bacteria to travel down into the jawbone.
3. Patients who have lost teeth may not have properly healthy jawbones for holding the implant. Smokers, diabetics, people with osteoarthritis, periodontal disease or jawbone disease are poor risks for implants.
4. There is the concern over the implantation of the titanium or titanium-aluminum-vandadium alloy into a jawbone. It raises allergy and toxicity concerns. The titanium alloy is used instead of pure titanium in order to decrease susceptibility to corrosion and to improve the material's strength. But vanadium and aluminum need to be avoided because of toxicity concerns. Even titanium can cause allergic reaction in a significant fraction of the population. Hal Huggins says "I have personally seen multiple sclerosis stimulated within one week of placing titanium implants. The compatibility test showed titanium to be compatible, yet it caused MS." Some dentists are using zirconia as a better alternative to the metal base.
5. Given that the typical life span of a tooth implant is 10 years, neither the high cost, nor the risks are justifiable.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
I spent about 8k for 3 amalgams, 4 cavitations, one root canal retreated, and a TMJ support device. I had a test called a heart rate variability to show level of health. According to the test I was very very ill. The cavitation were extremely necessary for me, I had a definite jaw infection, I noticed the biggest changes from those procedures. I noticed a big improvement after all that was done about 50%.
I'm now well, and looking to get even better, I know that wouldn't be the case without addressing my dental situation.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Wow, $30k? What an insane pricetag for dental work. Not fair.
quote:Originally posted by chaps: The estimate I received was $30,0000.00 for my case. That includes the removal and replacement of 3 teeth with amalgam fillings, the removal of a root canal tooth replaced by bridge and crowns of two adjacent teeth, removal of 7 crowns with amalgam buildups underneath, replaced with composite buildups and porcelain crowns, and bridging of a missing molar.
I would not consider replacing any missing teeth with an implant after reading about the risks pointed out by DAMS International which are as follows:
1. The bite can be too hard, the fixture, collar, and tooth system lacks the periodontal ligament shock-absorbing cushion that a natural tooth has.
2. The gums do not snug up to an implant the way they do with a natural tooth, leaving an opening for bacteria to travel down into the jawbone.
3. Patients who have lost teeth may not have properly healthy jawbones for holding the implant. Smokers, diabetics, people with osteoarthritis, periodontal disease or jawbone disease are poor risks for implants.
4. There is the concern over the implantation of the titanium or titanium-aluminum-vandadium alloy into a jawbone. It raises allergy and toxicity concerns. The titanium alloy is used instead of pure titanium in order to decrease susceptibility to corrosion and to improve the material's strength. But vanadium and aluminum need to be avoided because of toxicity concerns. Even titanium can cause allergic reaction in a significant fraction of the population. Hal Huggins says "I have personally seen multiple sclerosis stimulated within one week of placing titanium implants. The compatibility test showed titanium to be compatible, yet it caused MS." Some dentists are using zirconia as a better alternative to the metal base.
5. Given that the typical life span of a tooth implant is 10 years, neither the high cost, nor the risks are justifiable.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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My old dentist went way overboard filling my teeth years ago. If I could afford it, and deal with that many missing teeth then I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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