posted
I've been off antibiotics for about 6 weeks now.
I had to go off them because my liver enzymes went up and my wbc was so low.
After 6 weeks my enzymes are still high and now my iron serum is high (163) range is 35-155.
Has anyone else had any experince with this? What could be going on?
My symptoms were almost gone until I stopped meds, now they are all back ....
Not sure what to do....
Posts: 29 | From North Carolina | Registered: Jul 2010
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lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
Have you been detoxing at all? Taking milk thistle? My daughter had to go off abx as well due to elevated enzymes but her wbc was still in range. I suspect once you get your enzymes back to normal your wbc will normalize as well.
posted
I had been taking Milk thistle and NAC, along with a slew of other things.
The levels were slowing coming down and then they doubled 2 weeks ago.
I had started some new supplements and thought they might have done it so for the last 2 weeks I've been taking nothing.
They have come down a bit in the last 2 weeks but they are still elevated. I've not been able to get them in normal range for 6 weeks now.
I guess I will start back to milk thistle and NAC and nothing else right now.
Anyone know why my iron serum would be high?
Posts: 29 | From North Carolina | Registered: Jul 2010
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Detoxing IS a most IMPERATIVE PROTOCOL....(not yelling just emphasizing)!!
I have never in all the antibiotics I have done from 1997 thru present have ever had any liver
levels go up at all....I might be lucky or I did detox in different and various methods....
Probably the same methods seen here to detox...
so I cannot say why....you have had this problem....
of course...unless you are negative on the detoxing...
I don't presently see an answer to the first response concerning detoxing...
???
Please, please, please, don't be like almost every other person who is prescribed antibiotics
for whatever reason....and NOT do yogurt or acidopholis or detoxing remedies....
I know the mainstream boys and girls NEVER mention these things....
I guess they get a kick at return visits for colitis dhiarrea and other complications of
antibiotics when not prescribed with backup medications that mainstream medicine is totally
lacking in providing...gee....why is it they won't throw a LITTLE business to the health food
industry!
MY GAWD!....IS BIG PHARMA THAT GREEDY!(yes I am yelling this time)!
but not at you or anyone else here...just the trolls that monitor this place...
for their next assaults on our intelligence or whatever....extra credit points in their biology
or healthcare doctorates! tee hee.... zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
My son had low WBC high Liver function tests when on abx... not rising now that he is off abx.
Many, many weeks of round the clock research and I found what I feel to be the key to recovery. Dr. K says 80% of chronic lyme patients have HPU and TBD will not go away until it is addressed.
Hemopyrrollactamuria(HPU) - also called Kryptopyrroluria(KPU). Here are some links to some of the documents I am using for reference. There is tons of info on the web. My LLMD agrees this could be my son's route to wellness. Do research for yourself...
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
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lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
It's encouraging that they were coming down.. Even supplements can increase enzymes, so when they are high, there are few supplements that you can take safely.
Even your diet can affect how your liver is detoxing, so be sure to try and eat liver healthy foods.. Beets and greens are great for that.
It is disheartening when you are so close to getting well and you have to stop treatment, but you have look at it this way. You are giving your body a much needed rest from the medications you are putting into it. It will give your immune system a chance to rebuild on its own. Take this opportunity to get all those toxins out of your system and rebuild your immune system.
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
I agree, detox is crucial!
Hope you're pushing lots of lemon water and taking some epsom salt baths.
I also hope you didn't really stop EVERYTHING. Lyme patients are usually very debilitated, so we need appropriate, high-quality nutritional support(s). Re-read the ILADS Treatment Guidelines by Dr B. (October 2008, 16th edition).
Found this essay by Dr Palmer upon a quick web search: ***************************** Iron (Fe)
There are two types of dietary iron. Heme, or animal iron (i.e. red meat), is well absorbed from the diet.
Nonheme, or plant iron (i.e. spinach), is poorly absorbed into the body (Popeye was wrong - spinach is not a good source of iron).
In fact, only about fifteen percent of ingested animal iron, and only three percent of ingested plant iron, is actually [utilized] by the body.
The average American consumes about 10 - 20 mg of iron per day. In order to increase the absorption of plant iron into the body a vitamin C supplement should be consumed at the same time. On the other hand, tea, which contains tannins ( a plant substance), inhibits the amount of iron absorbed from the diet.
The amount of iron in the body usually amounts to about 3-4 grams, (50mg per kg in men and 40 mg per kg in women).
The body has a limited ability to eliminate excess iron from the body. In fact, only about 1-2 mg of iron is capable of being excreted each day.
Therefore, if too much iron is ingested (whether in the form of food or supplements), any excess iron is stored in body tissues, primarily the liver. As such, the liver is the part of the body that is most susceptible to the toxicity of iron.
Iron is an essential component of hemoglobin, a protein responsible for delivering oxygen to the body�s cells and organs. (One red blood cell carries approximately two-hundred and seventy hemoglobin molecules, each of which contains four iron molecules).
Iron is also a component of myoglobin, a protein responsible for delivering oxygen to the muscles. Finally, iron helps make ATP (adenosine triphosphate), an important component of energy. Thus, it is common to associate iron with energy and strength.
And, the link between fatigue and iron deficiency was pointed out to the American public via the Geritol commercials which aired during the 1960�s popularizing the term �iron poor blood�. Individuals with liver disease often incorrectly assume that when they feel weak and tired, they need to take iron supplements. But, taking an iron supplement under such circumstances is not a wise move and may, in fact, be dangerous.
The symptoms of iron deficiency and iron overload can be quite similar - fatigue, headaches, shortness of breath. Also, the fatigue associated with liver disease is more likely to be due to something other than the amount of iron in the body.
Therefore, prior to taking an iron supplement, it is crucial that a person with liver disease get his or her blood tested for an iron profile (iron, ferritin, and total iron binding capacity).
Excessive iron in the body of a liver patient can be extremely dangerous. In extreme excess, iron is toxic to the liver, and can lead to cirrhosis, liver failure and liver cancer.
Furthermore, there is growing evidence that even mildly increased (or sometimes even normal amounts of iron) may cause or enhance the amount of injury to the liver in the presence of other liver diseases. This applies especially to people with alcoholic liver disease and chronic hepatitis C.
In fact, iron overload is commonly seen in patients with alcoholic liver disease and chronic hepatitis C, and has been found to worsen prognosis, and to decrease the responsiveness to treatment.
Liver scarring and liver cell damage are directly related to the iron content of the liver cell. Since a person�s body is unable to eliminate an overabundance of iron, neither iron supplements nor vitamins containing iron should be included in the diet of a person with liver disease, unless it has been determined that there is an iron deficiency.
Patients with chronic hepatitis with high iron levels should avoid cooking with cast - iron laden cookware and should avoid eating with cast-iron laden utensils.
These individuals should consume only moderate amounts of those foods which are high in iron content, such as red meats and cereals or breads enriched with iron. (see table below for the iron content of some common foods).
Furthermore, some herbal preparations commonly taken by patients with hepatitis( for example, milk thistle, dandelion, licorice) often contain iron. Therefore, patients who are found to have an overload of iron should avoid these herbs.
IRON CONTENT OF SOME COMMON FOODS [chart not translating well, so I've edited.] In descending order: Beef, liver, chicken, shrimp Iron-fortified cereals, Spinach
By reading this article, you have acquired some useful knowledge about the relationship between minerals and the liver. For additional information on the broader subject of nutrition and the liver, you may wish to consult my book. Until next time - continue to keep up the fight for a healthy liver.
All contents of this article are Copyright � Melissa Palmer, MD
Melissa Palmer, MD is the author of "Dr. Melissa Palmer's Guide of Hepatitis and Liver Disease". (Published 2004. Penguin Putnam).
The office of Melissa Palmer, M.D. is located at: 1097 Old Country Road Suite 104 Plainview, Long Island N.Y 11803
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posted
My guess is that your serum iron is elevated due to babesia. In some patients babs causes low iron and in others high iron. Pretty sure someone on LymeNet posted about this in the past.
If this is due to babs I don't think diet and detox will do anything to bring down the iron levels quickly.
And the high liver enzymes may also be due to infection -- if infection is the cause then again I don't think detox or diet will change the levels.
These enzyme levels can change very rapidly and some patients do have more genetic issues which affect their enzyme function and fluctuations.
Bea Seibert
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