Topic: my old carpet hidden source of mold, dust, bacteria etc...
TerryK
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I have been avoiding having our carpets replaced for a long time due to my health and the fear of off gassing of new flooring.
We are finally having our very old carpets removed and replaced with wood flooring. To my surprise, the person taking out the carpets informed us that 85% of the carpet in the living room, dining room and master bedroom was damp and full of mold.
We could not feel any dampness because it was all being wicked into the pad and particle board where it stayed and fostered mold growth.
We could not see any mold because it was on the under side of the carpet, in the padding and in the particle board.
To make matters worse, there was thick dust under the carpet pad where it could not be removed with a vacuum AND there was thick dust UNDER the particle board which was tightly sealed.
The dust under the particle board had to have been there when the carpet was laid and we suspect that a fair amount of dust was under the pad when we moved in because we have always had a lot of dust in the house.
Dust is a perfect medium for mold growth and where there is mold there is no doubt bacteria and viral growth.
Next, we need to figure out why we have damp carpets. We know some moisture comes from the sliding glass doors. Again, the carpeting next to the doors did not feel damp at all and the sliding glass doors are in good shape. They have aluminum frames which allow for a lot of condensation and that appears to be the source of moisture.
Another hidden source of mold for us was in the bathroom fans. They were installed incorrectly when the house was built. One directly over the bath in one bathroom and the other directly over the shower in another bathroom and the fans were tied together which is a no no. Ya gotta love those contractors.
I had no idea that mold could be hidden in the carpet. I figured I would see it or smell it. Still very surprised that under the carpet could be damp but not feel damp. I would have never thought to look in the bathroom fans either. The roofing guy found the mold there.
Everytime we walked on the carpet we were inhaling mold, dust, bacteria and viruses. I'm looking forward to an improvement in my health and in my husband's asthma.
I just wanted to share this with others in case it is useful.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cass A
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Dear Terry,
Thanks so very much for this!
I hope you really, really investigated to find the source of the moisture in your carpeting!!!!
Otherwise, it will ruin whatever flooring you put down, and keep the mold festering away.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Don't fret over what these people told you.
Allow me to tell you the scientific truth about mold. Mold cannot be visually identified.
If you put your trust in a carpet installer and roofer, and if you take his word that there was mold, then you have been fooled by someone who knows nothing about mold.
I know a thing or two about mold having personally dealt with it.
Mold can only be identified by laboratory analyses. Any visual identification is a mere guess.
Most of the time what people identify as MOLD is a different type of GROWTH and is not harmful in the least.
Most mold remediation firms will visually identify any growth as mold and charge you an arm and a leg to "re mediate" it. It is just another scam.
If you think you have a harmful mold, the only recourse is to find a firm or person that does not engage in remediation, and thus has no conflict of interest, who has a degree in biology, and who will sample the mold and send it to a legitimate laboratory for scientific analyses and identification.
Such a person usually charges about $500 for such a service.
Any person who claims to identify harmful mold visually is either a liar, a poorly trained employee of a mold remediation firm, or a scam artist.
Trust me. A lot of the mold scare is a scam.
And dust under a carpet? Who doesn't have it, especially if you have a pad that disintegrates from the friction of walking on it constantly?
Of course if you remove all dust from your home you will have improved health, but don't put too much stock in what a roofer or carpet installer told you about mold.
It most likely is not mold, just a common growth, like mildew in your bathroom shower.
Not a health risk at all.
Posts: 81 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2010
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TerryK
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Thanks Cass, we are not done investigating and I'm with you, the problems must be solved. One suspicious wall will be opened to check behind it and we will check everything that seems reasonable to check.
One possible cause could be that we use a pet product that tells one to saturate the carpet and leave the enzyme to dry. We got a dog a few years ago that has major problems with accidents and we are thnking that might be part of the problem.
rajon-thanks for mentioning some valid concerns. The person doing the work has been a personal friend of ours for 25 years and we trust him. He actually charges us less than usual because we are friends.
One can look at the carpet, particle board and sub-floor and see without a doubt that there is mold. My experience is that any mold, whether considered toxic or not, tends to cause an immune system reaction in me. I don't think that is the case for everyone but those of us with lyme often seem to suffer more with mold exposure whether it is considered to be toxic or not.
Mold + lyme = disaster. Mold lowers the immune system and that lets borrelia and co-infections grow unchecked.
A few years ago when we decided we needed to delve into the mold issue I talked to the director of a lab that was recommended by one of my doctors. I wanted to have my house checked for mold. He told me not to bother until we were done checking and remediating, then check ti make sure that levels are low. He also told me that any mold would be a problem if one is sensitive and that part of that could be related to the bacteria and viruses that accompany mold.
I have had the genetic testing and I do not make the antibodies to get rid of mycotoxins plus I seem to have an allergic reaction to mold. It runs in my family. We know that my grandfather couldn't be around any mold without having a reaction and both of my sisters and a niece are in the same position.
The dust under the carpet explains a lot. Unfortunately I've been allergic to dust since childhood. When we moved into our house we had so much dust that we decided to buy a whole house air filter that attaches to the furnace. We cleaned it every few weeks and everything was fine until it broke down and we didn't replace it for 6 months. The dust was unbelievable.
Anyway, your concerns are understandable but I've been researchong mold for 3+ years now and I feel very confident that we are pursuing a very useful avenue.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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rajon wrote: It most likely is not mold, just a common growth, like mildew in your bathroom shower.
Not a health risk at all.
Mildew is mold and there are health risks from mildew.
from the same source "Of the thousands of molds that exist, some are known allergens (aggravating or causing skin, eye, and respiratory problems), and a few molds produce harmful mycotoxins that can cause serious problems. But all molds, in the right conditions and high enough concentrations, are capable of adversely affecting human health."
http://171.66.122.149/cgi/content/full/159/3/760 "Rates of respiratory illness were higher for males, those living in houses with pets, pests, mildew, and water damage, those whose parents had asthma, and those living in houses with smokers."
More can be found with a google search for mildew and human health studies.
rajon - this seems to explain the confusion with mildew. I can't guarantee that this is absolutely correct but I've looked a several definitions and I believe this is correct. http://www.lrs911.com/LRS/mold_and_mildew_definition.htm
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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I have known many people for 25 years, but I would not trust them to identify mold for me.
I just want to repeat what I was taught by a PHD in Biology specializing in mold.
A fuzzy growth, like what most people describe as mold, is most likely not mold but another type of growth.
Mold absolutely cannot be visually identified. Mold can only be identified as mold through laboratory testing.
Suit yourself in what you believe, but I'm going with the PHD biologist who specialized in mold and had no ulterior motive in what he taught me.
If you believed in every so-called health risk brought up on the web none of us would ever be healthy.
The body is very resilient to everyday exposure to multiple organisims like mildew which is why very few of us ever fall victim to mildew toxicity. Do we?
Remember people get paid to write articles about things they know nothing about, like roofers and carpet installers advising you on "mold".
Suit yourself, believe what you want to believe, I just offered you my take on what I learned from a PHD Biologist concerning mold in houses and how mold cannot, absolutely cannot, be identified except through laboratory analyses.
If you wish to trust your roofer and carpet installer, who would seem to have no expertise in mold whatsoever, then so be it.
Good luck.
Posts: 81 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I think TKO Orange (concentrate form) or Orange Guard (sold in hardware and healthfood stores) takes care of mold and odors very well.
Just put a couple drops in a spray bottle, fill up with water and spray.
It's also a good tick repellent, as it repels/kills bugs but is nontoxic for us. Can be sprayed on clothing, immediate environment, lightly rub/mist on dog/cat fur.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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TerryK
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rajon
you wrote: I have known many people for 25 years, but I would not trust them to identify mold for me.
You implied that the person doing the work was trying to rip me off. My point is that he is not.
you wrote: Mold absolutely cannot be visually identified. Mold can only be identified as mold through laboratory testing.
It does not take a PHD in biology to deduce that a moist environment will produce mold and I would bet that most things that look like mold growth are mold.
you wrote: A fuzzy growth, like what most people describe as mold, is most likely not mold but another type of growth.
Yes, a few things look like mold but aren't.
you wrote: Remember people get paid to write articles about things they know nothing about, like roofers and carpet installers advising you on "mold".
I posted information from fema and scientific studies not just any old articles.
you wrote: The body is very resilient to everyday exposure to multiple organisims like mildew which is why very few of us ever fall victim to mildew toxicity. Do we?
Those of us who have been sick with chronic lyme disease do not have normal immune systems and we are not as resilient as most people.
Your point of view is noted and I thank you for taking the time to explain your opinion.
BTW - the person that is doing the work does have some experience with mold. He is not a PHD but then I don't think one needs to be a PHD to know when they are looking at mold. They are likely not able to identify the exact type of mold but luckily I don't need that. In addition, I research things thoroughly and I am satisfied that I am doing the right thing.
If you look around you will see that illness caused by mold is as controversial as our non-existent chronic lyme disease. Big money is at stake and not enough research has been done on the effects of mold on human health. That said, I don't need a study to tell me that molds make me sick because it is very obvious.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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But the truth is that mold can only be identified by a lab analyses. It cannot be visually identified.
I never implied that anyone was trying to rip you off, only that a roofer or a carpet installer are not qualified to identify mold.
Like I said, suit yourself, believe what you wish to believe if it suits your purpose, I was only telling you what I learned from a scientist who specializes in mold and trying to ease your mind that the carpet and the so-called mold is probably not at the root of your health problems and that remediating what was identified as mold will not likely make much of a difference.
Perhaps I'm wrong and with getting rid of the growths they identified as mold all will be corrected.
Ultimately we must do what we think is best and discard what we don't want to believe. So for you to feel better, I think it is important that you take care of that so-called mold with all due haste.
I hope it makes a huge difference for you.
Posts: 81 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Nov 2010
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TerryK
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Thanks Robin. I've heard good things about that product but have not used it myself. The mold person is using the standard professional mold remediation products to get rid of the mold and discourage future growth in moisture prone areas. They have also washed all the walls etc..
I use thieves oil with a motor driven diffuser to remove spores from the air along with a hepa air filter with a UV light. Thieves oil has been written about in the book Nature's Mold RX by Dr. Edward Close. He conducted some case studies which show the usefulness of the product I also use his advie in the book for cleaning window mold etc..
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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rajon
you wrote: I was only telling you what I learned from a scientist who specializes in mold and trying to ease your mind that the carpet and the so-called mold is probably not at the root of your health problems
Thank you for caring enough to post. I think mold is only part of the picture but my LLMD and I agree that it could be one that is keeping me from a faster and better recovery.
I remember a few years ago that groovey (a poster here) said that he felt so much better when he was away from home. I advised him to check for mold. He posted later saying that he took out his carpets and had an amazing recovery. I would LOVE to have that kind of response but I'd be happy to feel even a little better.
In any case, a damp carpet in 85% of our living area simply had to go. Many doctors who deal with people who have my health issues recommend getting rid of carpets if one cannot vacuum everyday. I'm looking forward to much less dust around here. That alone is worth a lot to me.
If yoy haven't already, you might consider looking into the information from the doctor who wrote the book "Mold Warriors".
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tammy N.
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Hi Terry - I hope you see huge improvements!!!
I still have two rooms with carpet.... the most important rooms in the house, my family room and my bedroom. I've been so caught up in so many other health directions, that I keep dropping the ball on this. And, of course, there is the added expense. Ugh. Another big thing to deal with.
May I ask - what air filter did you have for the house? And did it make a very big difference for you? We have a TON of dust. I mean A LOT. Hard to keep up with.
Thanks, Tammy
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TerryK
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Thanks Tammy:)
I know what you mean about being caught up and letting the carpet wait. Years ago when one of my sisters found out the impact that a carpet could have on her health she pulled up all the carpets and painted the plywood floors. She did it because her doctor told her that she needed to get rid of her carpets ASAP.
She had painted plywood floors for years before she could afford to buy new floors. I thought it was an odd thing to do at the time but now I think she was pretty smart.
Here are some examples of painted plywood floors. These look like special techniques were used. My sister just painted the floor and while they weren't beautiful, they were fine. http://tinyurl.com/4nkukor
As far as air filters, the one that we used for 10 years that really seemed to get rid of dust was a honeywell. It fits in your furnace and you take part of it out and throw it in the dishwasher when it needs cleaning.
MichaelTampa
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My wife and I are actually just in the process of removing carpet from our living room and dining room. We will be replacing with ceramic tile. The carpet was getting very yucky looking and we are looking forward to something that will look nicer to us.
A comment above, if I read it correctly, seemed to imply that carpet, even if not moldy, could cause problems with health, related to dust? Do carpets cause a room to have more dust, or just harder to clean? Hoping to have that explained a little more. We are contemplating changing other rooms from carpet to tile, but, the other rooms, the carpet is in pretty good shape.
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TerryK
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Tile is a good choice.
New carpets emit volatile organic compounds. It is unclear to me how long they off gas but this source said tests showed VOC's coming from a 12 year old carpet. http://tinyurl.com/4r2t6oo
Pesticides and other contaminants are brought into the house on shoes. I believe these are harder to remove in carpeting whereas a tile or wood floor can be mopped.
Even the EPA agrees that dust mites can thrive in carpeting. Some people have dust mite allergies -that is probably why I have an allergy to dust.
As I explained above, it's very hard to know if you have mold under your carpeting unless you pull it up.
I'm sure you can find arguments on both sides of the fence and possibly even studies.
I'm not claiming to be an expert on this subject. I am following the advice of 3 doctors that I've consulted with by removing carpeting.
If you don't have kids or pets and can vacuum everyday, carpets may be fine for you except for the possibility of VOC's.
Replacement flooring can be problematic as well. We replaced vinyl with marmoleum which is considered non-toxic. We are putting tile in the bathrooms and pre-finished wood that has already off-gassed in the rest of the house.
One must be careful with underlayments, glues etc.to make sure they are not toxic.
I would advise everyone to do their own research so that they can decide what is best for them personally. My own bias is that carpets are dangerous.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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A quick update. Apparently we had a leak behind the chimney that allowed a very small amount of water to run down some beams inside the wall and down onto the floor. There were no visible signs on the outside of the wall. I haven't looked at it yet but the contractor left the wall open for us to look at.
At least with a wood floor we will be able to notice a leak that is making the floor damp.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Dogsandcats
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We have a cat who suddenly lost his way to the cat box and used the carpet. The timing was when the new puppy came to live here.
When we pulled up the soiled carpet to have new carpet laid, we were told to put down a thick layer of "kilz " before laying the new carpet. It seals the smell and I think protects from more mold.
Just a thought before you put in new carpet. Good luck.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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Dogsandcats
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We have a cat who suddenly lost his way to the cat box and used the carpet. The timing was when the new puppy came to live here.
When we pulled up the soiled carpet to have new carpet laid, we were told to put down a thick layer of "kilz " before laying the new carpet. It seals the smell and I think protects from more mold.
Just a thought before you put in new carpet. Good luck.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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Dogsandcats
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We have a cat who suddenly lost his way to the cat box and used the carpet. The timing was when the new puppy came to live here.
When we pulled up the soiled carpet to have new carpet laid, we were told to put down a thick layer of "kilz " before laying the new carpet. It seals the smell and I think protects from more mold.
Just a thought before you put in new carpet. Good luck.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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TerryK
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Hi Dogsandcats, I guess you know what your cat thinks of the new puppy. LOL Our older dog was really put out when we took in my daughters dog. Years later he would still like to see her adopted out.
I've used kilz a lot but not for mold. I just want to mention that it does not kill mold or protect from future mold. It kills stains. I've never heard that it kills smell but that would be nice. Did it work for you?
No more carpeting for me.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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NanaDubo
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If you are concerned about VOCs - I would stay away from "Kilz".
I have a nice and fairly inexpensive room purifier with 7 different filters and a small UV light.
It has technology for practically every type of pollutant, mold, bacteria, dust, odors, chemicals etc. etc.
Even if I use a non-toxic cleaning product three rooms away from where the air purifier is being used, it lights up indicating the odor.
I got it because my sons girlfriend is allergic to dust/dust mites. I put it in their room 3 days before their last visit and there was no sneezing from her. Her sneezing always used to wake everyone in the house.
Be careful with wood floors too. You might want to look for a "green" product as new wood off- gases and often is treated with formaldehyde.
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Tammy N.
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Thanks Terry - I am going to look into the air filter for my heater.
NanaDubo - what brand/model purifier do you have?
My two cents on carpet...... It is the most toxic thing in our homes (the second is our mattress). Thousands of chemicals that off-gas for many many years. These chemicals totally overwhelm those who are chronically ill. Carpet really needs to go.
Our family room is on a lower level in our house. Not a basement. But it's on a slab, which I think naturally stays a little moist. So for things to feel warm and cozy, 15 years ago we put down a thick pad and a good quality wool carpet (I felt terrible right after it was installed). I want to get rid of it, but haven't found yet what I think will be the right solution. I'd prefer a wood floor, but underlayments can be tricky to choose (toxic, etc), plus how do you deal with slab moisture under wood??. Tile will feel too cold. So round and round I go, get "stuck" and do nothing. I really have to try to move this up the priority list.
Tammy
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nefferdun
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I am allergic to mold so my nose will tell you if it is in the air! I start sneezing.
We had an old dog that was vomiting on the carpet and I was worried cleaning the rug so often may have caused mold. We removed it and replaced it with wood floors.
I did not see any mold underneath or in the carpet and it smelled ok. I did not experience anything physically either.
It is really nice to have the wood down. So much cleaner.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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NanaDubo
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Tammy - I have the NaturoPure Multi-Technology Intelligent Air Purifier.
Hubby is an engineer and researched a lot of them and we were impressed by their tests etc., and with the results.
The air smells really clean here now.
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TerryK
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Nana wrote: If you are concerned about VOCs - I would stay away from "Kilz".
Good point. We have an ionizer that I used to use when around these kinds of fumes but because I keep reading that ionizers are not safe I bought the allerair VOC. I don't expose myself to VOC's anymore unless I absolutely can't avoid it.
They make low to no VOC paint these days. Costs a little more but worth it.
Nana wrote: I have a nice and fairly inexpensive room purifier with 7 different filters and a small UV light.
Looks like a great air filter but it has an ionizer on it. Says it produces relatively no ions though. Not sure what that means - relative in relation to what's natural maybe?
Nan wrote: You might want to look for a "green" product as new wood off- gases and often is treated with formaldehyde.
Pre-finished solid wood floors don't have formaldehyde and are considered non-toxic. Some are UV cured. Most have 7-10 coats of aluminum oxide combined with polyurethane.
I have an e-mail into my ND to get her opinion about whether the aluminum oxide would become dust when the floor starts to wear. Even bamboo floors seem to typically have this coating.
Tammy - I agree with you on carpet.
Tammy wrote: 15 years ago we put down a thick pad and a good quality wool carpet (I felt terrible right after it was installed). I want to get rid of it, but haven't found yet what I think will be the right solution.
Sorry to hear that. Wool carpets are the material used in todays non-toxic carpets but one would have to be very careful about pad, glues etc..
You might consider a floating floor because it is slightly above the subfloor so doesn't contact moisture. It does not require glue and is supposed to be OK for basement type applications.
There are some engineered wood floors that don't use formaldehyde and are floating. I think you can buy cork floating floors as well. My ND put bamboo floating floors over concrete. If you get bamboo, strand bamboo or fusion bamboo are stronger than many woods that are commonly used for floors and they are reasonably priced.
They are finally making some good non-toxic floor coverings these days. One to replace vinyl (really nasty stuff) is marmoleum. We put some downstairs over concrete and I didn't have a reaction to it at all. It lasts 50+ years.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Terry, to clean the mold spores from the air use a box fax, the kind that sits on the floor, cheap at WalMart,Home Depot or Loews. Tape a Merv 11 filter to the back of the fan. Use duct tape to attach.
The Merv 11 filter will pick up the smallest of spores. Within a few days will you will be surprised the color changing on the filter.
I would put a box fan with a Merv 11 in each room that is affected.
Hepa vacuuming also is needed, if you have a central vac that will work as well, as long as it is blown outside the living area. All areas need to be vacuumed, including walls, furniture, surface areas, overhead fans, etc.
Plastic sheeting should be put up in between rooms so the spores don't spread into other areas of the house. If you have only one air handler for the whole house then forget the plastic sheeting the spores will be in the whole house.
Your airhandler should be sprayed with Evirocon, which will kill the spores and any obvious mold in the air handler. Also, spray the return while the A/C in on to get it into the ducts. Depending on how bad the mold is, this may or may not eliminate all the mold and spores. You may have to have a licensed mold remediator come into your house and this can cost thousands of $$$ depending on the size of the house.
Evirocon was recommended to me by the Forensic Building tester. I bought it at a Trane parts store, after I called the company who makes Envirocon. You may have to call the company that makes Enviocon to find out who sells it by your location. Just do a search for Evirocon to get the website of the manufacturer.
If the spores are inside the house and humidity gets over 60% the spores will start growing into mold. So, the spores HAVE to be removed. As well as, any obvious mold growing.
Any filters to be discarded should be put into a plastic bag and sealed. Do not take the old filter and walk through the house with it unless it is in a sealed plastic bag. Otherwise you will be spreading spores around the house again. That includes the filter from your air handler. It is also best to use a Merv 11 filter for your HVAC.
Assured Bio Lab has do it yourself testing and the prices are quite reasonable.
The only reason I recommend this testing site is because it is the lab that my $ 3400.00 Foresesic Building licensed tester used for my mold testing in my house. I could have done the testing myself but I didn't know where to go.
Have some of the rooms tested you don't want to have Stachybotrys, that one is a killer.
Been there done that and hope my experience will help you. Ours was from carpeting on a slab. Also, a defective coil in a Trane air handler.
You should also get yourself tested for mycotoxins in your body. I was positive and that's what started the whole thing with us.
Real Time Labs is the lab used for my mycotoxin testing. It isn't cheap $ 699.00 for testing, this has to be ordered by a doctor.
I wish you the best cleaning this mess up, it's a lot of work and expense. It doesn't matter if it is a $ 60,000.00 home or a 10 milion dollar home, any home can have mold problems.
All homes have acceptable levels of molds, it's the unacceptable levels that affect our health.
Best to you, Elaine
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cactus
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Terry, I haven't been on much lately, but just saw this...
And wanted to congratulate you!
I think getting the old carpet out, and the mold situation resolved, will really help your health.
I hope so, anyway.
You and I have had similar struggles, and I think we have similar detox issues. We have removed all carpet from our house over the past year - and it has been a huge help.
Hoping that this is a good, new beginning for you...
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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MichaelTampa
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Wow, well, my wife and I, last night and today, removed the carpet from our living/dining room, and cleaned up the mess underneath. Yikes! I don't think anything there was mold, but there was probably a 5-gallon bucket worth of dirt under there! Nothing like seeing it to understand that there really is no cleaning a carpet.
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TerryK
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Hi Cactus! Good to hear from you! So glad to know that removing your carpets helped you! I hope you continue to find things that help you feel better and better until all this is behind you and you are well.
I only have 3 amalgams left (started with 14) and then I'll do some very slow chelation. I found that very low dose lipophos edta really helps my energy levels. I do take all the precautions including binders even though it is a very small dose. All these toxins that everyone thinks are benign really are our nemesis. Some of us are affected more than others but everyone is affected.
Take care my friend.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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Elaine - thanks for your detailed post with all the great info. Very clever idea to get the spores out of the air with a box fan and merv 11 filter.
The team working on my house are taking all the precautions including closing off all the vents and turning off the furnace as necessary. We moved downstairs and our area is closed off from the rest of the house with industry standard mold remediation procedures.
Everything is bagged before it is removed and the walls and all hard surfaces are washed down. They are doing a great job.
We were just talking about how we were going to clean out the ducts so I really appreciate the tip on Evirocon. I'll look into it ASAP.
I was tested 5 years ago for stachy and several other molds and I do have borderline stachy antibodies. Could be from exposure a long time ago but I'm not taking any chances.
I've been working on mycotoxins for the past 5 years. That has helped me tremendously. As you no doubt know, the treatment for mycotoxins also helps with borrelia toxins. I had the VCS testing for mycotoxins at the start of treatment for lyme and I was negative but 2 years into treatment I was positive.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to post some very helpful information.
Michael, thanks for the feedback on your recent experience. Before we had our carpeting out, I had no idea that so much dirt could be trapped under the pad. It's really gross. I hope you see improvement with the removal of your carpet.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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Elaine - you mention humidity as a risk factor. I got a hygrometer last year and found that our house is sometimes as high as 60%. I'm sure it will be less now that the damp carpet is removed.
I'm looking for ideas on how to keep humidity down and would love to hear of any that you or anyone else has. I know of a few things but none of them seem ideal.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Terry, When we built our home about 6.5 years ago we had a Therma-Stor, Ultra Aire, air purifying dehumidifier system installed. We have 3 air handlers in our home and the Ultra Aire keeps our humidity to what ever levels we set it to. We feel that this system is the reason why we have no mold in the house only spores. The humidity has never gone over 60% to grow any of the spores.
I don't remember the cost of the Ultra Aire system when we installed it. Ours is a larger unit since we have a large home. They probably make them to size the house.
My husband owns a air temperature controls/enviromental controls business for 30+ years so he knows about these things. Although he does not use these specific systems, his controls may control them in commercial and public buildings.
When we built our home we had blown insulation installed in the attic, which is one degree warmer than the master bedroom, also humdity in the attic is usually low humidity. Although we feel that humidity must have reached 60% to grow mold in the air handler when the drip pan was full of water due to the defective coil.
The new coil which was just installed under warranty, now has a coating on the coil. Which leads us to believe that there were many problems with the coil. After checking internet for Trane coil and rust, it confirmed our suspicions.
We also had six inches of blown insulation put on all outside walls. This helps to maintain a constant temperature and humidity which is so important living in Florida. Plus it also saves on energy or electric costs to cool the home in the hot summers.
I would recommend to anyone living in a hot humid area of the country, that has an air handler in the attic to consider having the blown installation installed.
Our house is normally in the 50's for humdity. I don't think we have ever hit 60 in the house. The thermostat, in the master bedroom, has a humidity reading on it. I also check other rooms, especially in the hot summer months, to see if I have to adjust the humdity level in the house. It has worked well for us to keep the humidity low. I can set the humdity to a lower level, say in the low 40's but I find I get cold with such low levels.
Our problem is with two bedrooms that rarely get ventilation, which I found out was a problem. Rooms must have some type of ventilation. I don't open windows in these two rooms. One bedroom does have the a/c running in summer and warmer weather, the other runs also but is set higher in temperature, so the a/c doesn't run as much. I will keep the box fans with the Hepa filters running through out the year, now.
Both bedrooms do NOT have mold in them but a very high count of spores. We have no mold or bacteria in the house. We did have mold in one air handler which had the defective coil. That was sprayed with the Envirocon and we will use it every three months in the air handler.
We looked into UV lights for the air handler but were cautioned that only what goes past the UV light is killed. So if water is sitting in the drip pan on the other side of the coil, the UV lights will not work. Also, some UV lights give off Ozone which is another problem in itself.
I'm close to the conclusion that both bedrooms have the spores because of the lack of ventilation. We will, however, remove carpet in one bedroom first, to see if we have moisture on the slab. Although the slab was sprayed to prevent moisture when the house was constructed.
We have had infrared camera search the house for leaks or wetness.......none.
Our house, right now, is like a mystery. Where are the spores coming from? Lack of ventilation? Could it be from the carpet? There is no sense doing a big remediation job UNLESS we know what is causing the spores. To me, that is like putting a band aid on it.
You might want to do some research on dehumifiers. I know we had a portable one in the basement when we lived in New Jersey. It does take the water out of the air. You do need a place to put the drain hose which expels the water from the air.
My thought is the dehumdifier system works well to prevent mold, unless you have a water breach. It will not take the water out of walls or slabs. It will work well on the air inside your rooms but behind walls and under carpet, it does not work.
It seems like you have a good handle on your remediation.
I don't know if just spraying or misting Evirocon in the ducts, will kill all spores. You may have to get a fogging machine. You may want to talk to the manufacturer about that.
The building forensic tester we used was one of the top 5 in the country (Probably why he cost so much). He recommeneded a remediator. I talked to the remediator who says the duct work has to be scrubbed with special brushes. We have flex duct not sheet metal ducts. I personally think that is overkill. The remediator's proposal is $3400.00 for hepa cleaning, air scrubbing, surface hepa cleaning, cleaning ducts and air handlers.
I can see what is building up on the Merv 11 filters and I can physcially see the filters are now discolored so I know they are doing the job.
I am postive for three mycotoxins yet none of these mycotoxins show up in the house. So, I'm detoxing and hoping it has come from food. Talk about a mystery and even the forensic building tester is scratching his head.
It is bad enough to have TBI's but adding mycotoxins in the soup, makes it worse for a full recovery of TBD. Most of my symptoms have gone away. In 20 months of treatment, I have gotten to about 70-75% better in fatigue (which was my worse symptom). Cognitive is still on the low scale and mycotoxins are probably preventing recovery in that area, as well as, gaining more on energy level. I have been sick for almost 14 years. Only dignosed in June 2009.
We are still in the process of decision making and remediation. Anything else that I can find out I will be happy to share.
I am not an expert on mold and only share what has been my experience and opinion dealing with mold.
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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Cass A
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Dear Friends,
What an interesting thread, full of useful data that is so specific!!
I just wanted to chime in that KILZ is very, very toxic to humans. What it does is prevent any stain on the wall or ceiling from leaking through into whatever paint you put on top of it.
I wouldn't trust it to hold in mold or any other growth.
I always wear a mask and gloves if I have to use it, and keep all the windows open!!!!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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TerryK
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Thanks Elaine - very helpful. I'll look into the Ultra Aire. Sounds great for controlling humidity.
I also have 2 bedrooms that don't have good ventilation which I know is a big problem for air quality. To increase air flow I'm going to get rid of everything that I can pry from my husband. LOL
Perhaps there is something under the carpeting that you aren't aware of like there was in my living room? We also found a 4" X 6" patch of mold behind the sheetrock where the leak in the chimney caused water to enter the building and travel down beams to the floor.
We could not see anything on the outside of the wall and didn't know it was there until we took the carpets out and started to investigate the moisture under the carpet.
Cass - good advice. KILZ is toxic. It amazes me how most contractors have no clue about the toxicity of the chemicals they use. I know one contractor who insists that he does not suffer any ill effects from anything that he uses and yet he has memory problems off and on and word finding difficulty is very noticeable.
One guy who put in our marmoleum said that he has a lot of pain and other symptoms that might indicate chemical toxicity. I've heard there is lots of illness in the workers who lay carpets. There could be another cause of course but it sure makes me wonder....
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Terry, I am in the process of ordering the tile to replace the carpeting in the two first floor bedrooms. I will let you know if we find anything when the carpeting is removed.
I would really like to get rid of the carpeting in the loft, my office and the master bedroom but tile is a problem on the second floor with load bearing weight. I'm think of maybe bamboo.
I would appreciate any suggestions for what I could use, in place of carpet, on a second floor.
Elaine
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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TerryK
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Elaine We are putting tile in 2 bathrooms and 1 kitchen on an upper floor of a daylight basement. No one has said there would be any issue with weight. I hope we aren't going to have a problem. - I think I mentioned some of this earlier in this thread so forgive me if some of this is a repeat.
If you get bamboo, the hardest is fusion or strand. I've read a lot of complaints about the regular bamboo floors not wearing well but then I was looking for floors that would hold up to dogs.
I don't know the details of the glues they use when they make these floors but quite a few bamboo floors state that they have little to no VOC's.
I also don't know all the installation methods but you would want to make sure if they use glue that it is not toxic. My Naturopathic Doctor got a floating strand bamboo floor installation over concrete. Not sure but I think that would work fine over sub-floor. The floating floor requires no glue.
Then there is the finish. You want to make sure that it does not have VOC's. Formaldehyde is apparently used a lot in floors and my doctor is adamantly against it and I have to agree, it seems to be pretty nasty. There are other chemicals that can be very bad as well.
So far, the bamboo that I've looked at is pre-finished with the same finish as pre-finished wood. They use aluminum oxide and polyurethane or urethane. It makes a very hard finish that is supposed to wear well. My ND seems to think that normal wear would not release enough aluminum oxide to be a problem and I think she is probably right.
The problem comes when you need to sand the floor like if you get big dents or deep scratches. Sanding is difficult because of the aluminum oxide being similar to sand paper (I was told this and read something similar on-line) and a lot of aluminum oxide would end up on the walls etc.. From what I can tell, new methods are being developed to catch the material as it is being sanded off so that it doesn't end up all over the room.
If sanding the floor is not needed and you don't put wax on the floor and you catch it before the finish is worn through you can have wood and bamboo with the aluminum oxide finish screened and re-coated.
If you get bamboo, I'd look for reviews of the brand that you are considering. Here is an example of the comments that I've seen on several different sites. http://www.finishing.com/260/96.shtml
The Janka scale will tell you how hard the wood is and bamboo also seems to have a janka rateing. The hardness determines how easy it is to dent. The finish determines how easy it is to scratch.
You can also get pre-finished wood with the same finish but I would check to make sure that there are no added toxic chemicals to the product you are considering.
Supposedly pre-finished wood flooring has already off gassed at the factory. My ND said they had to leave their bamboo outside for awhile because the packaging was off gassing. Most of the pre-finished wood is nailed down so no glue is required.
Engineered wood floors can have nasty chemicals but I think there are some that don't. Glues are used to make the flooring material so you will want to get a list of all the chemicals that were used so you can check to see if they are safe.
There is also ceramic finish that is UV cured and is supposed to be non-toxic but I don't know much about it.
The problem with unfinished wood is that it has to be sanded and finished on site. The wood itself supposedly off gasses (probably due to preservatives but that is just a guess as to why) so you could have wood that off gasses after it is delivered to you.
You can use water based finishes but they are not very scratch resistant and don't wear well from what I've read. The finishes that do wear well are toxic.
Another option is recycled wood but I don't know enought about it to give you any advice.
Marmoleum can be really beautiful even in bedrooms. You can make some interesting designs. It comes in many different colors and lasts a very long time and it is non-toxic.
You can buy non-toxic cork flooring. You can also find leather flooring, some of which I believe is non-toxic.
Mainly I'd ask the mfg of any flooring that I'm considering for details on how it is made including chemicals used. That's all I can think of at the moment.
I'll try to remember to come back and tell you how we dowith new flooring. I do think brand is important.
posted
This is a very interesting thread to me because we moved out of our house last week while the remediators removed all of our carpeting, our kitchen counter and some flooring near the kitchen slider.
My LLND helped me figure out that we had a mold problem last summer with an ERMI vacuum test. We located the problem under the dishwasher and fully remediated that whole area.
We all hoped that would do the trick, but the ERMI samples of the carpet kept coming back high (tho much lower than originally), so we decided to hire a mold inspector, who guided us in this direction.
For us, the carpet didn't have mold underneath, it just wouldn't let go of the airborne mold spores from the dishwasher disaster and it had to go.
So now we have a house with no flooring, no kitchen counter and NO MOLD!!!
My husband will lay a new floor (not carpet) over the next weeks or months as we can afford it. In the meantime, I'm taking 3 cholestyramine a day and looking forward to finally making some progress in my Lyme treatment.
Good luck to you and thanks for all this wonderful information, Terry.
-------------------- "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain." Anonymous Posts: 450 | From California | Registered: Feb 2008
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TerryK
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4seasons - I'm so glad to hear that you have uncovered something that can help you feel better. Smart that you are taking cholestyramine.
I am also looking forward to moving forward in my treatment. I am certain my immune system was being lowered by the mold and the the poor quality of the air in our house.
I know how you feel with everything being torn up for awhile. We will be living in our basement (it's finished but smaller than we are used to and no kitchen).
Please post and let us know how your health fares when all is said and done. I'll try to do the same.
Good luck to you too!!!
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Terry thank you so much for your knowledge on floors, I really appreciate it. I will look into alternative flooring for the upstairs.
As far as the load bearing your contractor will know for sure. We have very large rooms and high ceilings even upstairs, I don't know if that makes a difference.
I am addressing the downstairs first since that is where the high spore counts are. The upstairs bedroom was contaminated by the air handler but yet that same air handler covered the great room (with tile)and we did not have any spore counts at all, in that room.
The great room has a 23 foot high ceiling and we keep the 2 sets of 16 foot sliders opened for ventilation except for the hot summer months. That may be the difference....ventilation. Also, I don't keep the windows in the upstairs bedroom opened because of rain. There is no outside overhang and the rain would come in the windows.
4seasons, I am detoxing every other day. Taking meds on the off days. I am also taking Charcoal capsules (8 in morning) and Benonite Clay (2 tablespoons). I can only manage to take 2 cholestyramine on detox day, although my doctor wants me to take 3. It is really difficult to take 3. I take a magnesium citrate pill because all that will bind me up.
I think 4seasons is right the carpeting just holds the spores and will not let them go. Although the box fan with the hepa filter has turned brown since I've been running it. I just don't want to take a chance that spores are still in the carpeting
Sorry that we all had to go through this but my attitude is that by remediating the mold and spores only makes us closer to getting well.
I will keep you posted on what, if anything, I find under the carpeting.
Thank you for the input, it all helps.
Elaine
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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Just an update to our mold spore problem. We had the carpeting removed from the two downstairs bedrooms. We used the central vac to vac the walls ceilings, mattress, box spring, surface area, furniture, you name it, including lamp shades and floor trying to get rid of the spores.
There was absolutely NOTHING under the carpeting, no mold, no water stains and no dirt ! The pad under the carpet was like brand new. I guess the central vac works !
After the tile was installed, I vacuumed everything again.
I think the detox is helping because I don't know where I got the energy to do all this.
Now, washing and ironing all the bedding.
I believe that 4seasons was right about the carpet holding mold spores.
I will have both rooms tested again. AND......I'll keep the box fan with the Merv 11 filter running part of the day for ventilation when I'm not running the air conditioner.
Now, I have to start looking for something to replace the upstairs carpeting.
Thanks for all your suggestions, Terry.
Let us know how you are progressing.
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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TerryK
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Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see if the spores go away now that the carpet has been removed. I think it takes time for the spores to removed from the air but that should happen with the use of your fans.
I found that after the carpet was removed I felt sick everytime I went upstairs. I would start sweating within 10 minutes and felt sick to my stomach and dizzy.
We decided to run a shock ozone machine so we left the house, took our pets, moved our one big plant that was left upstairs outside and ran the machine for a few hours. That seemed to help a lot. I still sweat after about 1/2 hour but don't have any other symptoms.
I've been meaning to get to the store and buy some fans and filters like you have and will hopefully be able to do that on Wed.. I did run some theives oil in a diffuser which has some evidence behind it as far as mold spore removal.
Looks like a number of our windows need to be replaced because the seals are broken and they sweat. We found mold around the windowsills on several. I am having a hard time getting window companies to follow through and come to give us a quote. So far 2 have said they would but didn't show up or call.
I hope things go well for you in picking a floor. Let us know what you decide. I still haven't decided yet.
Glad to hear that your energy is doing good!!!
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sorry to hear that you are finding more mold. Windows can be a big problem. Hope you get someone there soon with a good price !
I really think that the box fans and Merv 11 filter will help clear the air. I'd be interested to know how you feel after running the box fans. Especially when the filters start changing colors.
The filters were so brown we changed them after the tile was installed and the furniture put back in the bedrooms. Now, I'm going to watch and see how fast they change color.
It's bad enough that the mold effects our health but it is also a darn inconveniece and I didn't even mention the cost !
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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TerryK
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Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Marmoleum makers (Forbos) claim that their product is mold resistant.
We had it installed by a certified installer 18 months ago. It was installed in our laundry room which also has a water heater and furnace/air conditoner tucked away in a closet. There is no way we can lay the flooring under the furnace and water heater so there is an exposed edge next to the furnace.
The air conditioner leaked due to a faulty air cleaner and all the seams came up and in no time we have massive mold growth under the flooring. The flooring is NOT mold resistant. I've read from others that mold will also grow on top of the floor if you get water on it.
We had a water heater flood in the same room a few years ago and had no issue at all with our vinyl flooring.
The marmoleum backing (jute) apparently fosters mold growth. Makes a perfect food. A very expensive ($2,000+) mistake because now the flooring is ruined and we have to get new flooring.
We are thinking of having a prcoess called retroplating done on our concrete. Very low VOC's and can be beautiful. Probably slightly less cost than tile which is the only other option that I can find that is low VOC, water resistant and will work on concrete.
If anyone has any experience with the concrete finish or ideas for other finishes, please let me know.
We are finally getting the new windows installed on Monday and the wood flooring for the upper floor delivered tomorrow and installed in a few weeks. In the meantime I'm living in a moldy basement due to the marmoleum. ugh!
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Terry, why isn't it that we can't get a break???
Is that the coating that they use on garage floors? Those look really nice.
Had a ERMI done on box fan filters. It went from 5.2 to 6.4 after removing carpeting from downstairs bedrooms. Still have to have the upstairs replaced with tile.
So after the increase in ERMI we went up to the attic, today, for the main air hander. We had used a spray recommended by the building forensic guy. We sprayed the air handler when we had the defected Trane coil replaced. Well, today went to check on the air handler again..and guess what... still mold in there. Now, I really have to have the remediators come in for that.
The ERMI combined two filters one from upstairs and one from downstairs. My doc lent me his mold testing machine and all those counts were really low... super low and acceptable. But, the ERMI on the filters went up. It's that darn air handler making me sick. I feel like shutting if off and just run the ceiling fan for ventilation and bathroom fans for withdrawal. Then sleep downstairs on the first floor which is free of mold and on a clean air handler unit until this gets remediated.
I am at a standstill with Lyme treatment with this mold. It is bad enough fighting tick borne disease but mold is a real problem for us. I am breathing in more than I can detox out.
Maybe you should go back to vinyl if you had no problems with it. Just think of all the money it has cost to make things work right and then it didn't. Did you send a letter to Forbos, they made a claim, they should pay for it. I would try.
Forget Trane, they did replace my coil but there is so many complaints on internet about rusted Trane coils, it's pathetic. The new coil has a coating, the old one did not. They should have had a recall with all those complaints. Everyone check your coil if you have a Trane.
Is the retroplating just a concrete finish? I would think would be a lot easier to clean, how is it with mold? Any claims on the product about mold. There are no seams, correct. I would think that would work a lot better.
Terry, I feel for you living in that moldy basement, get some box fans and filters in there, that will help.
Elaine
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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TerryK
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Elaine - thanks for checking in. I can't believe we are both still dealing with mold after trying so hard to get rid of it. You get a pat on the back for being on top of it so fast.
Our problem was apparently caused by dirt that got into the coils due to a broken electronic air filter. Cost us $300 just to get the furnace cleaned out of all the dirt. The air cleaner was still under warranty so we may have a claim with them however we will probably find the same thing that you found, they will not take responsibility.
Most warranties state that they will not pay for any consequential damages from the product failure. I called Forbos today and they acted insulted when I said the floor installer said the jute backing fosters mold growth. They said it's our fault that water got under the floor.
I won't ever install new vinyl flooring. It has formaldehyde and other nasty chemicals in it. 3 out of 4 of my aunts have died of cancer and both of my grandfathers died of cancer. Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen and not something anyone should be exposed to let alone someone who is already sick. It can off gas for a long time from what I've read.
Our previous vinyl floor was already in for 10 years before we moved in so it had already done most of it's off-gassing. We had to get special plywood for repairs to our sub-floor in order to get away from formaldehyde. It's in so many things. Here is a link that explains a little about formaldehyde. As you can imagine many ppl think it is worse than the government is willing to admit so this is probably the tip of the iceburg on health effects.
No, the retroplating actually changes the concrete. Here is how they explain it.
"The RetroPlate product, being a water-based sodium silicate, works by chemically interacting with the calcium hydroxide in the cement component of concrete. We are not creating a topical floor covering, nor are we creating a flooring product that will require extensive maintenance, stripping, ongoing topical treatments or future disposal in a landfill."
Seems like Trane should at least try to figure out why their unit is causing this mold problem. I hope you can figure out what is causing the mold issue soon so you can get on with your treatment. Mine is being held up too until I can get this taken care of. ugh!
Looking forward to hearing that your problem is solved and you are able to get back to treatment. I know I'm anxious get going on IV.
Take care, Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Just wanted to share that it became clear after a while that my 5 year old was reacting to something in my parents' home. We'd even arrive at night, while she was sleeping, and she'd wake up screaming as soon as we carried her in and started to go up the stairs. We'd go out for an activity on Saturday, and she'd be great, but Sat morning and Sat evening back at their house, she had significant behavioral problems.
We told them it might be the (old) carpet. It was 23 years old. It was in the stairs, upstairs hallways and some of the bedrooms.
They pulled it all out and refinished the floors. We waited to visit until well after the fumes were gone.
My child is now fine at the house - dramatic shift.
We need to find room in our budget to get rid of the rest of the carpet in our house. It's so expensive - AND - I really like softness under my feet.
-------------------- Garden
"Fibromylagia" for 8+ years Pos IgeneX WB per both Igenex and CDC Pos Neuroscience MyLymeImmuneID Started tx for Lyme in March 2011 Posts: 245 | From East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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TerryK
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Garden, Glad you figured out that the carpet was the problem. I sure sleep better after getting rid of our carpet.
My sister didn't have the money to replace their carpet so she removed the carpet and painted the subfloor and they used it like that for a long time until they could afford wood floors.
I don't know if there is a down side to using the subfloor like that. I suppose you could damage your subfloor and need to replace some of it. That didn't happen to my sister and they have dogs.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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An update: The good news is that the pre-finished wood floors that we had installed don't seem to have much if any off-gassing. They are Kentwood saratoga prefinished oak. http://www.kentwoodfloors.com/us/originals/products/30400
Pre-finished don't look as natural as some other finishes but water beads up on them and they look like they will be durable.
The bad news. As soon as the contractor brought all the boxes of wood into the house the humidity started to climb. We thought maybe the wood moisture content was high but would stabilize.
I mentioned that the humidity was climbing since they brought the wood in but they seemed mystified. The contractor didn't measure the moisture content of the wood like they should have before they installed it and now that it is installed it is slightly cupped and humidity is even higher in the house.
If the cupping gets worse it could cause damage to the wood so we bought a dehumidifier a day ago and have already taken almost 4 gallons of water out of the air. That has brought the humidity to 57%.
Before we had the carpet replaced, we had the whole house checked for mold and leaks, got new windows and new higher volume bathroom fans.
Because the house was humid even before the wood was installed I'm still looking for reasons why we would have humidity hovering around 60% and sometimes as high as 65%.
More on the marmoleum... We had a small leak from the faucet in our utility room a few days ago. We fixed it the minute we noticed it and since it clearly leaked for only a short time we figured there would be no mold. Now, a few days later the laundry room smells like mildew and my gums hurt and throat is sore (both a sign of mold for me).
Marmoleum seems to grow mold quickly, apparently because of the jute backing. I would NEVER buy marmoleum for a laundry room or any other place where water might be an issue.
Our old vinyl floors never grew mold with minor leaks or even when our water heater broke. I think the marmoleum does not adhere very well to the floor and water gets underneath it very easily. I would go back to vinyl if it weren't so toxic.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
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You get a pat on the back for being on top of it so fast. 
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