Topic: anyone worse from true homeopathic treatment?
AZURE WISH
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I am so bad it is hard to tell what is going on . I was wondering if anyone had a bad reaction to a true homeopathic product. (any increased or new symptoms)
people (especailly drs throw the word homepathic around alot to things that arent) when i say homepathic i mean something that is supposed to have the energy imprint of the thing but not actually be the thing in a biochemical way... i hope that makes sense.
Haley
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I have just started treatment with the Asyra tincture. I had HUGE headaches at first, teeth hurt, face hurt. I'm much better now. I've been on it one week. I also bought the Lym deseret biologicals but I'm too chicken to try it yet.
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I think JohnNY (or NYJohn?) got better from using the Bionic then finishing up with homeopathics.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Razzle
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Yes, this can happen with Homeopathy, especially with higher potency remedies (i.e., 200C and up; X potencies rarely ever increase severity of symptoms). Consider it similar to a herxheimer reaction - some call it a "healing crisis."
The book, "The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease" by Peter Alex, has a few case reports in which the patient given a particular remedy (custom-prescribed for that specific individual) had a worsening of symptoms or development of new symptoms briefly before improvement occurred.
I've also experienced symptom flare-up from a high potency homeopathic remedy - apparently I needed the remedy but in a lower potency to start with so that I didn't respond so intensely.
Make sure you are working with an experienced Homeopathic practitioner if you do take remedies that are higher than 30C.
Bach Floral Remedies (energetic extracts from specific flowers, similar to homeopathy) can also elicit "healing crises" ~ these are used more for emotional issues, but sometimes can be helpful for physicial ailments as well.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Brussels
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I didn't understand your question...
What homeopathic product did you take?
Homeopathy can kill most of borrelia by itself (just check the threads on the Bionic and PE1), so I just wonder why it is always considered a weak treatment...
It can knock you down, with fevers, blisters all over you body, whatever. My husband thought he was dying once, while on classical homeopathic treatment.
The worsening of symtoms initially is well known and documented after starting homeopathy.
The only difference is that this is caused by your own body, mostly, and less by the chemical content of homeopathic products.
If you check old threads about people getting better from bartonella using Deseret Biological nosodes, you will see this can be pretty real and strong!
Tell us what you are taking so that we can give you a hint (in case we know what is the susbstance).
Hope you feel better soon!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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AZURE WISH
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actually tbds are the least of my problems right now. treatment for them created all kinds of problems and now i am in super bad worse than tbds could have ever been shape. (and yes i know how bad they r)
my body reacts badly to everything sulphur. (sulfa sulphur sulphate sulfite)foods, supplements, soap.. u name it
so I was prescribed a microscopic dose of homepathic sulphur pellets. I had diareahea the next day and more pain specifically it seems joints and muscles. just wondering if i am alone in the bad reaction AND if next dose (1 dose every 10 days - told ya microscopic dose) (normal dose 3-6 pellets 4 x a day) it has gotten a worse or less bad reaction in others.
Just very worried because I am in such bad shape and my body reacts so badly to almost everything on the planet (that is not near as big of an exageration as it sounds) so many treatments to help my mcs are off limits to me.... but i am not sure how much more my body can take... there has to be a way for my body to start to heal.
and so much medical care is off limits due to my mcs.. no er. no hospital. i can barely go to the dr. it takes mom and my brother, a mcs mask and a portable air purifier to go to a dr who doesnt use smelly stuff because he specailizes in mcs.
I hope i explained it right. pain is so far past excruitating . it makes it difficult to get thoughts out coherently. thank you
Brussels
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Azure, what was the potency of sulphur?
I have no personal experience with sulphur treatments when your body can't take suphur...
It sounds awful, but it could be a healing reaction.
I know what is MCS and I wish no one could ever live such a hell ever in life. I take my hat off for you people, that are still battling so hard.
I wouldn't take a second homeopathic dose until I stabilize if I were you...
I would give my body a bit of time for healing until taking second dose.
Are doses the same potency? It makes a huge difference to take them either same dilution or different dilution.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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The way my classical homeopath prescribes is he starts with a remedy at 6c or 30c (low dose) and has me dose ONE TIME at that potency.
By once, I mean I usually take 2 pellets (or 2 drops) diluted in about 250-500 ml water (depending on the dose and remedy) and then take one sip - or - one sip x3 (spaced 30 mins apart).
THEN, we sit and wait. Sometimes we wait for weeks to make sure the remedy is "done working".
IF it is the right remedy for you, you will experience mental improvements and physical maladies such as worsening of your current symptoms or bringing back old symptoms, and sometimes bringing about "new" symptoms.
If it proves to be a positive remedy then he bumps me up to 200c, 1M, and even LM potencies.
I am currently on Lycopodium LM1. I have also gotten up to Pulsatilla LM5 and LM6. These are 2 remedies that have given me the most noticeable improvements (and yes..they made me feel the most crappy). My dreams literally changed with these remedies.
MY HOMEOPATH ONLY GIVES ONE DOSE OF EACH POTENCY! this is because that is all that is needed to slowly peel away layers.
Yes, it's slow. I've been working with him (and many different remedies) for 2 years now. But there is a lifetime of layers to uncover especially in deep rooted chronic illness.
Also, i am not supposed to, but I take the homeopathic remedies while on herbal supplements. He is not a fan of this, as it can interrupt the action of the remedy itself, but I don't feel it's in my best interest to use homeopathy alone to beat this multi-faceted infection.
I agree with Brussels...don't dose any further until you stabilize or hit a "plateau".
Again, this is just my experience with my homeopath, but I never use the same remedy at the same dose more than once. So this means I buy a small bottle of pellets, take two from one bottle, and probably won't ever use it again. He may keep me on the same remedy, but will always increase in potency, never by increasing the dose of the same potency.
I hope you get well, and remember that the physical pain you go through with homeopathy IS a good sign, in most cases, that healing of a miasm is occurring.
** if you are physically AND mentally worse, it's possible that there is an aggravation ** and that remedy may not be the one for you. Consult with your homeopath.
while under the care of a different homeopath, she had me take 15 pellets under the tongue, spaced 12 hours a part 3 x for a total of 45 pellets of Stront. Carb 200c.
2 months later I had a 102-103 fever for 3-4 days.
The reason my homeopath now doesn't do those high doses is because they can create severe reactions such as what you might be going thru.
consider smaller dosing in the future. homeopathy works.
Razzle
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quote:Originally posted by AZURE WISH: my body reacts badly to everything sulphur. (sulfa sulphur sulphate sulfite)foods, supplements, soap.. u name it
so I was prescribed a microscopic dose of homepathic sulphur pellets. I had diareahea the next day and more pain specifically it seems joints and muscles. just wondering if i am alone in the bad reaction AND if next dose (1 dose every 10 days - told ya microscopic dose) (normal dose 3-6 pellets 4 x a day) it has gotten a worse or less bad reaction in others.
Sounds like a sulfur detox reaction - the homeopathy could have triggered a sulfur dump. I've had this happen from other things (BioSET treatment for methylation pathway enzymes caused my body to dump sulfur).
I'd suggest getting some supporting mineral supplements - Magnesium, Molybdenum, Zinc, and Iron (only if low in iron) - and also Vitamin B12. These nutrients support the sulfur processing/detox pathway and may reduce symptom severity. The B12 helps with the detoxing process. These nutrients shouldn't interfere with the homeopathy because these are things the body needs to function correctly anyway.
And yes, if I were you, I'd contact the doctor who prescribed the Homeopathic sulfur to make sure they are aware of your reaction to the remedy. Keep them updated on your symptoms through this process - it is important that they are able to follow your progress carefully with homeopathy.
A detox bath using baking soda or hydrogen peroxide might also help - don't use epsom salts because that contains sulfur and may interact with the homeopathy or give you too much sulfur exposure.
Take care,
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Brussels
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Firecracker, good that you are trying classical homeopathy and feeling some improvements. Keep us posted, I'm always interested in knowing how people react to class homeop for lyme disease...
As for the suggestiong of one pill at once, you are talking about the C potencies mainly. True, we usually don't need a lot, once could do the job. But if she took the lower D potencies (or X in the USA), they can need 'remembering'.
I'm not sure she's on the classical homeopathic treatment either, or the homeopath is only treating some individual problems (like sulphur sensitivity) and NOT addressing her whole personality. Who knows?
I tried so many approaches, and found many to be helpful. Classical or not. D, C,K, M, LM potencies.... Mixed products, individual products, mixed with herbals, supplements, homeopathy only, then lately, introduced photons.
But never ever with lyme, I would ONLY let classical homeopathy heal me. This is because I was already on classical homeopathic treatment very long ago, much before I caught lyme. It couldn't heal me from it, but it did treat deeper layers, I found.
So I'm like you, I take things, specially cleansers, together with any treatment whatsoever I did. Letting my body heal by itself was fine before I caught lyme. During lyme, it was just not possible for me.
I hope Azure is getting better. She didn't post. Crossing fingers she's feeling better.
A hint to Azure: if you took sulphur on X dilutions and crashed so badly, don't ever try the C or K dilutions now. Wait, wait, wait!
If you crashed on the C or K dilutions, it means they are too strong for you now, move down to lower X dilutions. As lowest as your doctor thinks is possible. And raise it slowly, step by step.
That is what I would do in a normal treatmet. But I don't know if he's on a special protocol, so I can't tell exactly.
I experimented LM potencies for the last 3 years while I was on lyme treatment. These were totally new for me. My lyme homeopath was versed on LM potencies. He told me that they have an advantage to loose power fast, like you need intake 2, 3 times a day for them to work.
I did as he follows and my herxes were milder, much milder, as he was giving me LM dilutions of products to help my liver, kidney, GI tract, lymph etc. Taking these LM dilutions made my other killers act smoothly, and I needed less binders.
LM dilutions are still a mystery to me though. But I liked them while I was fighting lyme. Not all homeopaths know a lot about these dilutions though. If Azure's homeopath is familiar with LM dilutions, ask his opinion about sulphur LM???
Just an idea, as I have not enough knowledge of the sulphur path problems in homeopathic treatment...
Good luck Azure!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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I agree, though I could be wrong but I just don't think it's smart to treat Lyme and co-infections with JUST homeopathy.
Brussels I only take the lower C potencies in the beginning of a new remedy. When we find I have a good reaction to it, we bump up the potency.
The remedies I have in LM potencies are Pulsatilla, Arsenicum Album and Lycopodium. There may be a couple others tops.
The LM potencies my homeopath has me take one dose every 3 days (2 drops in 250 mL water, 1 teaspoon sipped from the water).
I do think there is a roller coaster effect, I feel great mentally but lose it quite quickly.
I bought my homeopath the book mentioned in this post for lyme. I don't pick his brain though, so i don't know if he agrees or disagrees with anything in the book.
posted
When I first got Lyme, a homeopath tried to get me to stop the doxycycline and put some nosodes under my tongue. She told me to call her in two weeks to tell her how I feel after that. She obviously had confidence in her words, but I thought it would be crazy to stop the abx at that time.
She also said something about putting a fraction of 1 doxy pill into some water and drinking it 5 times in one day, to detox the body from the abx. Has anybody ever heard of anything like that?
I remain open-minded, and I wouldn't knock it till I tried it, but I think Lyme is too dangerous for doing experiments. Also it sounded a little like hocus-pocus to me. When she was talking to me, I was looking all over the place to see if she hid a broom somewhere.
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AZURE WISH
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Sorry i couldnt post until now... the excruitating pain thing is a good day.. any reaction to anything is on top of that.
Ok i am really ignorant when it comes to levels but mine is 10m. It is one of the kind that you are supposed to take 4 times a day. It isnt to deal with anything emotional. my body has become reactive (senstive and reactive but not a true allergy). and so many things that are sulphur orientated could be helpful (like glutathione and possible some other amino acids and foods and we are hoping to get my body to change its reaction)
added the vitamins would sound logical and begnin but like i said my body is so overactive ther is nothing that i can assume is safe. I even react to a certain kind of sea salt. (i have less than 25 foods i eat now and i am trying to find a way to get muscle tested)
I am definetely going to contact my dr to see if he wants me to stay on it and if so at that dose. i am supposed to restart trisalts at a low dose and i will tell him my corncerns about being flared and tried ing something else. although doing nothing doesnt seem to make anyhting better.
I think i am lucky and found a good dr. its just that i my symptoms are so severe on a good day and i react so much to so little... i am a complicated case.
James1979 - in my opinion abx are experimental for lyme and coinfections too. there is no certainity they will work. and there is no certain dose or combination. please dont take that to mean i am against abx. I am not against them at all. just i think unfortunately it seems all tbd treatment have a certain degree of experimental elements to them. this is just my opinion though.
Your homeopath does things differently than mine does, so I don't want to suggest going against your current doc.
10M is a pretty DEEP acting potency and it takes time to show results if given one dose.
If it were me, from what I know, i would want to wait until the reaction settles down before dosing anymore. But.. go with your gut.
You can always go to www.abchomeopathy.com and post a question there if you want to question your doc without questioning your doc directly. There are many good homeopaths who go there to help people.
Haley
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Wow, Fyrecracker you know a lot about homeopathy. I should PM you but I'll start here.
I am taking Asyra tinctures and they are kicking my butt completely. I backed off and then slowly went back on. I am not one of the people that is super sensitive to meds. I could proabably get IV cyanide and it wouldn't effect me.
I need to learn more about them but I am giving them a shot. I am still on a low dose of abx. The practitioner seems to think it is fine to take them both. Do you think it defeats the purpose if you take abx at the same time?
Also, I notice physical issues (getting worse and then better) but the function of my brain is still at an all time low (my worst symptom).
You wrote - IF it is the right remedy for you, you will experience mental improvements and physical maladies.
What do you mean? Is it possible that both could get worse at first?
Have you had a lot of brain fog type symptoms or do you mainly have pain type symptoms?
I have always had my doubts about homeopathy because I don't hear many Lyme patients raving about it with the exception of the bionic 880 which is a different process.
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From what I know about Asyra (which is very little) it is not a true homeopathic remedy.
With that said, I've used a "remedy" that was imprinted much in the way Asyra imprints and filters in the "energy" of the remedy into a bottle containing water or oil as a carrier. (if we are talking of the same thing?)
My homeopath is against it. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, I have just chosen to go the classical route because that is what makes the most sense to me.
It would probably be best to avoid abx and any kind of remedy being taken at the same time. If you take one dose, this would be pretty easy to accomplish. I would stick with what your doctor recommends though, since I'm not a doctor
It is possible that both mental and physical symptoms get worse first.
For example, I just dosed 4 times with Lycopodium LM1 (spread 3 days apart each dose). I was very much physically and mentally worse. My homeopath said to wait one more week to see where I'm at then. Last night I was depressed, this morning I woke up much happier and out of my "funk". It can change that quickly.
It's brain fog, listlessness, depression, pain all over, hopelessness, i.e. crappy. It's not me. I can deal with physical pain but NOT when I'm in a low mental state.
The important thing is to wait. When in doubt, wait to see if your mental symptoms improve. This is based purely on my experience with my homeopath.
It's a slow process, one that I have yet to say *works*- but i know that without a doubt it has helped me with my mental clarity. It's a very odd form of medicine that is hard to grasp, let alone measure success rates. I am still in the air myself about it.
I think its because homeopathy is such a slow acting way to improve health (especially in chronic disease) is why it's more of an unpopular route to take in treatment. I know I want to be done feeling crappy, like right now. So that is why I combine it with other therapies.
Brussels
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Azure, keeping fingers crossed you will feel better soon!!!
--------- Firecracker, ALL classic homeopaths believe only in classical homeopathy.
Mine too.
But it didnt' work for lyme.
I read recently in Scott's site that dr. K. says that for lyme, classical homeopathy is not working anymore (go to the conference part of betterhealthguy). Dr. K. sees hundreds of lyme patients, and has a solid base of classic homeopathy. Plus other types of homeopathy.
I would bet MORE on ASyra though. But it is not bad to use classic.
M and LM potencies are very strange, to my view. I took LM potencies 3 times a day during my whole treatment.
In my own homeopath's word (he's a MD, basic education is homeopathy in Switzerland, he's also a psychologue), LM the way he uses are VERY WEAK, and that is the advantage. That is why he prescribes to all his lyme patients 2,3 times a day for at least 2 weeks.
C or K potencies, this stuff is POWERFUL. That is why we don't need more than once. I agree with Firecracker!
I don't agree that one can always see improvements with CLASSIC approach fast. Sometimes yes, but basically, it is to be seen in months. I was treated with classic homeopathy for stomach problems many years before I caught lyme. And it worked to reduce symptoms (down to 40% of what I had before), but never cured my stomach problem.
Same for my hubsband's skin problem, or my daughter allergic problem. It helps, but it is slow (because too profound), but never 'cured' anyone at home.
I suppose that if we don't include the parameter POLUTED ENVIRONMENT in classic homeopathy, it will lose its sense for many cases. Just my opinion.
I didn't regret using classic homeopathy, not at all. But it is the other types of homeopathy that work fastest for lyme, in my experience.
Anyway, one does not have to stop abx to take homeopathy. But the body is so sick that sometimes it doesn't trasmit well the message anymore (due to toxins or advanced sickness condition of most lyme sufferers).
ingesting nosodes (I did, many years before I started photons) will not cure you from borrelia, but it will create reactions (like it did). It helped, but was not enough.
-------- Asyra is not homeopathy, you are right. It is a frequency remedy.
Ergopathics use also only frequnencies, and many people swear by these too. I don't have too long experience with these, only about a year experimenting, I do think they work too (at least, that is my feeling), but I only use it for a year to be sure.
Homeopathy, I know for decades. Dr. K. uses homeopathy for ALL his patients, that I know. All of them! The 2 practioners I went following his approach were strong on homeopathy too.
Anyway, I hope Azure will get better. I don't know if stopping treatment is good, but back of killing or toxins building up, that would be good, I suppose?
Sorry you have no more foods to eat. Did you see my thread on how lyme causes allergies?
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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I was treated homeopathically and have been in remission for 2 decades.(Classical Homeopath, remedy was Sepia, but it was specifically chosen for me, that's the thing about homeopathy, what works for one person, does not necessarily work for another, even for the same disease/symptoms).
I had classic Lyme symptoms (contracted on a trip to new england), undeniable bulls eye rash, severe headaches, stiff neck, swollen joints, facial paralysis, etc).
To the OP, I got worse before I got better. After I was given the remedy, I broke out in rashes all over my body, circluar rashes about the size of a dime, everywhere - it looked awful). Anyway, it was a process, but Homeopathy really cured me. I never did antibiotics! If anyone had been able to diagnose me at the time, I probably would have been on antibiotics, but no doctor coudl figure out what I had. So, only the homeopath could help, since homeopaths don't have to have a diagnosis in order to treat.
However, my mother also contracted Lyme disease about 6 years ago, also had the bulls eye rash, plus the joint pain and chronic exhaustion, and even memory loss and cognitive impairment. Homeopathy has not been very effective in treating her...
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Brussels
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Congratulations on your classic homeopathic treatment! I'm glad to know it worked for you (so simple, and so effective!).
I also treated with classic approach (mine was Nux vomica) and my daughter was Lycopodium , we didn't heal from lyme.
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