Topic: D3 got long/but see /from D to Thyroid&drinks
nonna05
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I know this is a long post , the second half has two post that start the same ,but different as you read it.
Big question.....Those who are well or close to it ,,did you focus on D3???? dated5-25
next is from original post.starts here:
I know brain short hand. the way I type
.From a post from Muscle Car 55 in general a link ; google Lyme disease news.
I clicked a post about Vitamin D From Lyme disease news site
Basic /jest below. Saying in general taking D is similar to steroids and makes us much sicker>>
PLEASE any input..I'm sicker as it is because of steroid shot's...
I'm sweating right now , babs// I want to know if I've blown it , AGAIN.....
on a post on Lyme disease form something about vitamin D is actually not a vitamin but a secosteroid??? This means it actually is a immunosupressive, Any kind of steroid makes Lyme proliferate
the pop med culture would have you believe that a negative reaction to D is impossible
By Kombuchababy states D makes all her symptoms to go WILD reply :Leigha yes D makes me sick as a dog ,I'm extremely low in d ,so when I take it I get lethargic and muscle ache,,same with fish oil
mentioning Hashimoto's and symptoms like LD
Brie writes...happy to find post. Cant take D either .I feel worn out joint pain and dizzy The forum just goes on like that//
TF, Keebler, GiGi, SIX, TuTu anybody..Is this valid?????/
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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nonna05
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OK my brain short hand thinking wasn't getting through.. His post is long , dated 5-18-12 @ 2:07 pm
He put several link's on there .. I followed one..
About Google "news for Lyme disease...I did Lyme disease news or clicked on his link ,,
That didn't go through so I put in Lyme disease news and saw the above chat on it I hit a chat about Vitamin D./Lyme. basically stating the above,,(my post)
So It's about if D is a secosteroid, what that means. and if it's a Problem.. I too take D3, LOT"S recently I increased it.
Point could it cause the new twitching/numbness /bone pain. If it is a secosteroid?
I was taking it to help those and increase immune...
Sorry so confusing my brain hurts..
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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Rumigirl
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The idea that vitamin D is immunosuppressive is extremely theoretical and controversial. I know of no LLMD's who agree. I really wouldn't worry about it. Being low in D is really not good for the immune system or anything else.
The best way to get D is through careful sun exposure at this time of year. But some people still don't make it the way they should.
Please ease your mind about this!
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nonna05
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Thank you,,Have you heard of this before?? I know about DR.M and the Hydroxy issue.
Know ,not understand....
This sounded different I'll see what is on better health guy also...
Thank you all for your help and I'm so sorry about my lack of computer skills and spelling and short hand thinking.
A couple of years ago this wasn't as big of issue. Getting the lap top is a pretty knew thing to me , needed to stay in touch outside these four walls, and human contact via electronic's.
So I'll take a deep breath, and see if any other comments come through about D3 ( the non-vitamin) Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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Any D experts????
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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But if you need more info on vitamin D to ease your mind, then yes, vitamin D is indeed a secosteroid, but that is chemically different from the corticosteroids that will suppress the immune system.
Vitamin D is associated with bone health and also with immune system function. LACK of vitamin D will SUPPRESS some aspects of immune function, making you more susceptible to some infections such as influenza and TB.
Vitamin D plays an important part in regulating the balance of calcium and phosphorus in the body. Lack of it can lead to osteomalacia, or soft bone disease.
I could get into more detail about exactly how vitamin D is used by the body, but bottom line is that it is important in several functions and there is no good reason to avoid it.
Maintenance of adequate vitamin D levels is important, and can be acquired through sunlight exposure, dietary intake (milk, for example, is supplemented with vit D), or vitamin D supplements.
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AuntyLynn
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BEST Vitamin D supplement (for MY money)...
Carlson Labs Cod Liver Oil! lemon flavor (Available Whole Foods Market or any reputable Health Food Store)
It's a NATURAL, mercury-free source, which also packs Vitamin A and fish oil (EFAs EPAs).
My Mom who has NEURO Lyme, responded positively within 3 DAYS of getting her first few tablespoons!
BF who is prone to psoriasis in cold weather found his condition improved noticeably within 2 days of taking Carlson brand CLO. We had tried Twin Labs CLO before - and the Carlson worked much faster/better!
Also, you can try tanning salon if need be. But at a good day at the beach, your body can make 50,000 IUs of D, so don't worry about taking "too much." Listen to what your body tells you about it when you try it, and dose accordingly.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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Just my 2 cents, but Vitamin D3 has been the BEST supplement for me! It can completely turn a low energy, fatigued day into a good one for me.
I take 50,000 IU's weekly, and at the beginning of treatment when my D level was extremely low, two or three times that dose.
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
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Health revolves around vitamin D the way the Earth revolves around the sun.
Yes it is a hormone, both in how it is produced in the body, and in how it acts at the cellular level. It is a gene transcription regulator, ie: it regulates how individual cells perform their duties. Whatever the cell, it will do its job better with D present.
It also helps white blood cells produce a natural antibiotic, cathelicidin, lethal to many bacteria and viruses.
It is modified enzymatically in the liver and kidneys becoming more potent with each modification. The enzymes that modify it modify other things to aid in their removal from the body, hence taking it spins the wheels of detoxification faster.
A person who becomes ill with it is either having a true herx or has sarcoidosis.
It is produced naturally by exposure of cholesterol in the subcutaneous fat to the ultra-violet B rays of sunshine. In this way, it is similar to cortisol, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and aldosterone, except that the cholesterol precursors to each of these are modified by glands, not sunshine.
One caveat: in it's natural cycle in the body, it is never a crystal or powder, always an oil. It should be ingested as such. throw out tablets or solid form vitamin D and buy only liquid or oil filled soft gels. The best I have ever taken is solgar Vitmain D#3 derived from "naturally occuring fish liver oil" If you don't see that phrase on the bottle, be aware that you may be taking D3 derived from wool oil or lanolin, not as effective imho.
I hope that helps.
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Keebler
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- I agree with others here. And I replied to a previous thread you posted with exactly the same question.
As LymeToo suggests, it's very hard for the reader to know to which thread you refer unless you can post the LINK.
How to cut and paste:
Open a blank "Word" or work page off to the side of your desktop.
Take cursor to highlight URL (internet address / link / website) in the top bar.
Use the "COPY" feature for your computer system (it may be "Control" key plus the small "c" key).
Clink onto the Word work page with your clicker and PASTE the URL there.
That may be from a pull down menu or by holding down two keys, depending upon if you have a PC or a Mac. You may try "Control" & the small "v" key.
The URL / website address should appear on the Word page.
Go back to the web page and, again, with cursor highlight any short excerpt you choose. You can do this one - or several times. If more than one, be sure to separate each quote.
You can use . . . in between or just dashes and a new paragraph. This indicates to the reader that this is not the entire portion of a phrase and they can then go to the link for detail.
If all that is not clear, just search at Google:
How to Copy and Paste
-----------------------------------------------
It helps to keep with your original thread.
If you don't get replies - or the replies that you want -- just advance the thread to the top by posting "up" or ^ or even just "anyone else?"
Making a brand new thread for the same question can be very confusing to the readers and those who previous contributed a reply. It can also make it harder for you to track all the replies.
If you need some clarification to the thread for more targeted replies, you can EDIT the HEADING, just as you'd edit the post. Click onto the "edit" icon (tiny pencil & paper) above the link.
Hope this helps. You might want to copy and save this post to your desk top or research links for easy reference.
Same with threads that are of particular interest to you. Just copy the URL and the topic. Then it's easy to refer back if you have your own file in a folder on your desktop.
Search LymeNet Archives -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Not specifically about lyme, however, many basic nutrient questions can be answered with articles at VRP, an excellent site that has very good research articles, all with third-party references (expert sources not from their own company):
Dr. K Conferece: Lyme and Other Chronic Infections
October 9-11, 2009
Excerpt:
Dr. K on Vitamin D and Lyme Disease
ALS, MS, cancers, etc. are all vitamin D deficient states.
Lyme spirochetes utilize vitamin D3 to stimulate their own growth. It helps the spirochetes to multiply much faster.
Sarcoidosis is a condition of lumps in the lymphatic tissue and lungs. It is often caused by Lyme disease.
Dr. Marshall [as from the Marshall Protocol] is not an MD or a chemist. Dr. K has not seen one improvement on the Marshall Protocol except in a sarcoid patient.
It has not been helpful for pure Lyme cases.
If a person is vitamin D deficient and being treated for Lyme, it seems to take longer for them to recover.
When you give vitamin D and Lyme treatment together, the patient does far better.
Lyme disease multiplies every 22-36 days. With Vitamin D, that process may be every 19 days. The organisms are most vulnerable to treatment when they are multiplying. . . .
- full article at link above. -
[ 05-21-2012, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- To coordinate your replies to this question, here's your other thread that was posted 3 days ago: ------------
manybites posted a reply there for you that details that same information quoted in that article above from the 2009 conference.
All this might be a lot to take in but please do mark this thread, copy & paste, or whatever methods you can to keep this handy.
Hope these techniques all help. There will still be more questions to post here, of course. However, these techniques may be able to save hours of searching - or waiting- for replies. -
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Razzle
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Those of us with VDR genomic variants (I have both VDR taq & VDR fok variants) cannot handle large amounts of Vitamin D, according to Dr. Yasko. When I take a Vitamin D supplement, I cannot sleep at all, even though I am very, very low in Vitamin D (Both the 25 and the 1,25 vitamin D are low on blood tests).
So how would one raise their Vitamin D level if they cannot handle the symptoms from taking Vitamin D supplements (I also can't go out in the sun because of my Lupus-like symptoms)? I do not have Sarcoidosis as far as I know...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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I took Vitamin D3. Made me feel great for years until it didn't and then made me worse.
I also am a believer in what Dr. N says in his book The Silent Saboteur. My experience is similar to this quote from Dr. L.
"Vitamin D and the Immune System
When the current vitamin D fad first started, we jumped on the bandwagon (or possibly I should say that we tripped and fell under the bandwagon) and we started testing everyone for vitamin D. We were going to suggest 4000 units or so for people because we "knew" that they needed it . The only problem was that most people tested that vitamin D beyond what is in the multi that we use was toxic for them. How could this be? This made my head hurt. Could Dr. Mercola and so many others be wrong?!! It took me a couple years to find what seems to be the answer. I found it while studying the Marshall Protocol. My summary is at the end of this post.
#############################################
Client PS has problems with fatigue, sensitivity to electrical fields and severe sensitivities to chemicals, especially those that are petroleum based. Her home is the worst possible design from a mold standpoint with both a basement and attached garage.
She muscle tested that she could not tolerate even the smallest amount of corn alcohol (Everclear). So much for using herbal extracts and homeopathics.
During the ZYTO LSA test she was pinged with the electrical patterns of many hundreds of items - glands, organs, tissues, toxins, pathogens, metals, etc. This normally does not cause problems but she became more and more distressed until she threw up into a plastic garbage bag and the test was discontinued.
It was, however, possible to do the electrical patterns test. Mold toxins at 186,000 (yikes!). Staph at 9000. Yikes again. Lyme was not so bad at 400 but babesia at 5700 and bartonella at 8000? Candida at 9000? Metals, prions and EBV were high and biofilm was an astounding 88,000. What could have wrecked her immune system?
She mentioned that in the mist of her struggles she had started taking vitamin D3 and it made her feel better. Ah! That was it. Bacterial infection --> bacterial toxins disrupt vitamin D receptors --> body turns the inactive precursor form of D into the active form too fast --> the active vitamin D is too high (Blood tests test for the inactive precursor and she would have tested very low. Blood tests appear to lie if you do not understand what they are saying.) --> she took vitamin D3--> the D3 crashed her immune system -> infections took off. She felt better temporarily because her immune system could not kill any candida/Lyme/bacteria so there was no die-off.
She was able to tolerate Cholestepure, molybdenum and two homeopathics that were made with without alcohol.
The molybdenum is needed to detoxify the candida toxins. More on that later.
###########################################
My summary of the vitamin D problem:
*Vitamin D3* in supplement form is needed by some people.Those who muscle test know that the idea that all people need 4000 or more units a day is wrong.If you want details on vitamin D, Google "Marshall protocol".By way of quick summary:Many bacteria produce materials that interfere with vitamin D receptors.This reduces immune system activity.These bacterial infections also produce inflammation which results in the rapid conversion of the vitamin D precursor called 25-D to the active form called 1,25-D.So the levels of the inactive 25-D are low.*And that is the form that is measured on blood tests*.But the levels of the active 1,25-D are unnaturally high.Excess 1,25-D affects receptors for cortisol, T3 thyroid hormone and progesterone among others resulting in all kinds of hormone imbalances.*At this point, taking high doses of vitamin D2 or D3 will have the effect of further turning the immune system off *along with causing other havoc!The patient may feel better temporarily because their immune system is no longer able to kill pathogens so there are no die-off symptoms.They cannot even have a cold because cold symptoms are caused by the immune system response!So the cold virus and countless other infections increase unchecked.Not a good situation.If levels of 1,25-D rise above 42 ng/ml, calcium begins to be leached from the bones producing osteoporosis.Now if their doctor tests for vitamin D (inactive 25-D), it will be low and they will want the patient to take vitamin D3.Yikes!!Do your homework!"
Keebler
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- jdp710
Is there a link for that?
Some of it looks like it may be your words but it's hard to know.
The link may provide easier reading but also help us know who says what and keep track of it.
Typically, it's best to post paragraphs no more than 3 - 4 lines. Many here can't read solid blocks of text, due to neurological, eye and even inner ear complications.
Thanks. -
[ 05-22-2012, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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nonna05
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Thank you------------ any other thought's?
Keebler, I went back to the 3 day old post and in my mind the issues were a bit different..
One simply implied D feeds Skete's The other that D suppressed immune
I've had the test done for regular D /usual test,,,always low and once was in the teens.
I've also had the D and then the Hydroxy with it,,showed low first way and a slightly high -hydroxy ( 1,25-D) .by a point or two
So for me it was an issue to consider when I saw these comments..
jdp710 just said it in a more medical term for one issue and MarylandMom answered/commented about the other part.
Then doc had his point.......
I see different, fairly strong/ direct opinions about this.
Yes, I have talked to three doctor's, including LLMD ( no-make that 5 if we count the ID & RA doc's)about this , without it being resolved.....
to the point where I know what is best for a Lyme patient with low/high on test and knows little things fall through the cracks and end up making a huge difference..
Like STEROIDS
I'm trying
Many have said they had to be active in their part of getting well,by
collecting info etc...
The last time I tried to get this test added to a regular blood check, It was totally done wrong...
.They just didn't understand how to order or process the request.
I spoke with nurse and Quest directly to make sure it didn't get missed/or messed up .
Now I simply don't know where I stand on the 2 tests. Except 34 on usual, basic test.....
Thank you all for your help, Nonna
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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up
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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Nonna, At the risk of inciting those who have disagreed, the ideas that D "feeds sketes" or "suppresses immune" are just theories, and simply are not supported by medical studies. I have not seen a single peer-reviewed medical journal article that supports these theories.
What HAS been proven is that D has many important functions in the body, as I got into a little earlier. doccludite's post gave you more detail about how D works.
I think there is sometimes a little hysteria in reaction to the term "steroid" since Lyme patients have been so conditioned to think that steroids are "bad."
"Steroid" is the name of a type of organic compound, and there are literally hundreds of different ones. Cholesterol is a steroid. Many hormones, such as sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen, are steroids. They are named steroids because they are produced by the body within cells using a sterol called lanosterol.
CORTICOSTEROIDS, specifically the subtype called glucocorticoids, are the "steroids" typically used in medicine to suppress immune function. These are the steroids that Lyme patients should avoid.
SECOSTEROIDS are not actually steroids, although they are chemically similar to steroids. This is an important distinction.
Vitamin D plays a critical role in immune function, as I said earlier, and insufficiency has been shown to be related to osteomalacia, and some studies also link it to MS and some types of cancer.
The safety of Vitamin D supplementation has been questioned, but to my knowledge, it has not actually been proven as unsafe.
Ultimately, whatever you do has to be your decision. There is so much medical information available on the internet now, but as you've found, it can often be conflicting and cause confusion. Not all the information is always accurate and medically sound.
If you have an LLMD that you trust, I suggest you follow his or her recommendations for your health care, and try not to let all the other opinions and information overwhelm you.
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AuntyLynn
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Good points, MarylandMom - big difference between corticosteroids and the "steroidal" hormones that our bodies make every day.
Nonna - If you are worried about getting "too much D" why don't you simply try to sunbathe a bit every day? Say 20 - 30 minutes whenever possible... to start. See if it makes a difference in how you feel!
But Docluddite above has posted an observation with which I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY! One NEVER finds D in nature that is not bound with an oil! (So it makes me just shake my head in disappointment, to see folks pounding down D3 tablets and thinking they will get the whole "benefit" that their well-meaning doctors think they can.)
Do you know that up until very recently (say, last 5-10 years), one could earn a medical degree without taking even ONE COURSE in Nutrition? The medical community is often just as illiterate when it comes to nutrition, as they are in Lyme issues.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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The first two paragraphs in my post above is from me. Everything else is verbatim from Dr. L. I went back and added quotes.
And again, would also recommend to read the book The Silent Saboteur from Dr. N and highlight key parts.
In short, the low Vitamin D levels that is at epidemic levels in the population is part of the disease process.
Raising Vitamin D levels through supplementation will make one feel better and severe ailments and health problems in general will subside short-term at the expense of long-term complications. And is true in my experience.
Spirochetes and other pathogens are responsible for the low Vitamin D levels.
To raise Vitamin D levels one should
*get moderate sunshine. Although this may make one herx due to the increased immune system. Those with mercury issues (most with lyme) may also have an issue.
*reduce pathogenic load... including kill the trillions of spirochetes that live in the gingival sulcus (gums). See Dr. N for more info or ask me for more info.
*take co-factors. For example a study done by Fruit-ex shows 19.6% increase in Vitamin D levels just by taking co-factors. Osteoboron is a cheaper version of Fruit-ex. http://www.fruitexb.com/about-fruitexb/research
In my opinion/in my experience, those with lyme would be better off by focusing on lowering their mold toxins which make one feel better in the short-term as well as long-term than Vitamin D supplementation.
Lower the mold toxins levels and everything becomes less mysterious and lyme and co-infections are easier to reduce and with very little herxing!
The majority of anyone ill, including those with lyme, have a mold problem in my opinion.
Radionics activation of 803,000 ohms and/or diffusing thieves oil I would recommend. But I think "everyone" with lyme should be doing the radionics activation of 803,000 ohms.
hope this helps
Posts: 52 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2011
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I agree that sun exposure is an excellent solution, provided there are no photosensitivity issues from antibiotics.
Nonna, did you know the reason vitamin D is technically not really a vitamin is because the body has the ability to make it? And, the way that happens is through sunlight and the use of cholesterol--one example of how cholesterol isn't ALL bad. ;-)
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Razzle
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Getting sun is a problem in Northern latitudes and places where it is cloudy a lot. So what is a person to do? A tanning salon is out of the question, as I cannot lie down flat...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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nonna05
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Last Summer I was in the sun pretty often at all times of day, The triplets were here.. ... So plenty of sun, pretty consistant varried meals and I was still low with the basic D blood draw,
Of coourse when I tried to sit in sun and ground myself in Earth ,I'd usually just get bites and go back in house.
This was before my bodies total fry in Aug, .same month diagnosed., jpd710 I could follow everything but that last paragraph..
Then there is taking D ,but it's a short term help, but hurts in the long run..
This D issue has come up in several ways with my health for a few years..I learned quickly the D from pharmacy was D2 and that wasn't good, although an oil substance.
There have been a couple of times were my bones go into pain overdrive, mostly thigh and it takes me a day or two to remember that I didn't do my drops.
At that time I would quickly put in 10,000 to 50,000 units for relief,
So that could be the short term fix part and yet cause a tougher fight to get well, it's a consistant issue,
If I read this correctly we have two different schools of thought???or saying the same thing in different ways??/
I could add that my potassium has dropped several times over the last 4 years.
.It's another one I take on occasion ,if it seems like symptoms warrant it...
Razzle the Carolson drops at 2000units per is easy, cheap and oil...
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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Razzle
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Can drops of the oil form of Vitamin D3 be absorbed in sufficient quantity through the skin?
I gag on the taste of the fish oil (plus am allergic to fish), and can't swallow caplets...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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nonna05
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Last Summer I was in the sun pretty often all different times of day, The triplets were here.. ... So plenty of sun, pretty consistent, varied meals and I was still low with the basic D blood draw,
Of course when I tried to sit in sun and ground myself in Earth , Before they came and I still functioned some...I'd usually just get bites and go back in house.
This was before my bodies total fry in Aug, .same month diagnosed.,
jpd710 I could follow everything but that last paragraph..
Then there is taking D ,but it's a short term help, but hurts in the long run..????????OR NOT
This D issue has come up in several ways with my health for a few years.
.I learned quickly the D from pharmacy was D2 and that wasn't good, although an oil substance.
There have been a couple of times were my bones go into pain overdrive, mostly thigh and it takes me a day to remember that I didn't do my drops. Or had just pushed my body ,as in travel,,,
At that time I would quickly put in 10,000 to 50,000 units for relief,
So that could be the short term fix part and yet cause a tougher fight to get well, it's a consistent issue,
If I read this correctly we have two different schools of thought???or saying the same thing in different ways??/
I could add that my potassium has dropped several times over the last 4 years.
.It's another one I take on occasion ,if it seems like symptoms warrant it...
Razzle the Carolson drops at 2000units per is easy, cheap and oil...
It seems as though D3 in oil form is a yes ??????
That's a question,
Please remember I have asked ,
#1-no, #2 yes/no #3 yes... it kinda looks like the results we get from our tests for this disease.
I think of Lance Armstrong who swears by taking ton's of it as does Dr. OZ
jpd710, Maryland Mom, Aunty Lynn,Keebler, doc, TuTu...also anyone who has gotten WELL... yeah? or nay???
Or just one big maybe//??//
This D3 issue is recent , so some who are well either did or did not take EXTRA....
It's late, I've had very little sleep, and just found out one of the Triplets needs surgery Fri.. and has had a couple of Seizures.
( I knew in my heart something was up these last few days that needed extra prayer. Thank you)
They are in the Rep of Georgia....
Here I sit ,trying my hardest to fight this, not fall through the cracks and I can't even think of trying to get to the kids at this point...
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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This isn't-- OH I just read 5 words about D and freaked out,,,,,,There's a history here . (not freaked,just don't want to postpone healing.
It's kinda like the pain,,,if it gets real bad I take something.. helps short term, but not great for long haul...
infection/disease/bug's/worm's/parasites etc.
It' s war, TuTu you're right
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo It's a yes ? no? Maybe ?
It still seemed like two different opinions.. Razzle I wonder about rubbing it in like you asked,,I have the Mag. that you rub on so may it would work... Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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Wait a minute ...What does Dr.B say about this,,Or would that be older info..... I have a natural 50,000 units capsule ,,just waiting to see which way the scales tip...
I did do a couple drops a day or so ago,,,,,,,,
Well. the birds are chirping, must mean my ,melatonon moment is over.... Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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Marnie
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Vitamin D and a "fatty liver" (not caused by alcoholism):
Fatty liver is part of the "metabolic syndrome" (= diabetes, hypertension, obesity and dyslipidemia)
There are, however, other ways to help a fatty liver heal...berberine chloride is one.(Wikipedia)
Depakote to control seizures raises blood glucose levels and causes a fatty liver. All of the antiseizure meds do.
High levels of blood glucose -> excess stored as tryglycerides in fats for emergency use.
Cells become "insulin resistant" ultimately because Bb is PFK (phosphofructokinase) dependent.
That enzyme controls glycolyis.
Bb needs glucose AND amino acids.
Insulin carries glucose into the cells. Cells starved of glucose will die.
Glucose is needed in both the cytoplasm (where glycolysis happens - making some ATP) and in the mitochondria (where glucose + oxygen = oxidative phosphorylation) happens to generate a lot of ATP.
With a lyme infection, the coupling of those 2 actions is disrupted -> "mitochondrial dysfunction".
Now (are you following along?) berberine chloride helps insulin go into insulin resistant cells, but prevents its metabolism (which Bb needs to happen because "he" needs the carbons).
Berberine activates MAPK -> ultimately more ATP and PFK is turned off.
Once again Bb is PFK dependent.
Now the cell is using/burning/oxidizing fats.
Remember, we can make ATP 2 ways...from glucose or from fat. When we exercise and run out of glucose, do we not then "burn fat" -> ketones for energy...as in the "ketogenic diet" - Johns Hopkins...and the original Atkin diet.
Great...except...too many ketones are very very hard on the kidneys so the original diet had to be modified...add back in some complex carbs which do NOT trigger an insulin SPIKE.
Now...vitamin D works along with other nutrients too - calcium is the obvious one, but here's another:
In animal studies, boron has been shown to counteract the some of the effects of vitamin D deficiency due to its influence over calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus status. In addition, studies suggest boron has the ability to increase serum 25(OH)D levels.
There aren't any nutrients to my knowledge that Bb does not effect in one way or another.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
For those that are concerned that sunlight is not a viable option for whatever reason, and are not comfortable taking supplements because of concerns about safety and/or efficacy...
The one option that is left is to get lots of Vitamin D through your diet. Sources of foods high in vitamin D include:
Fish oil, and cod liver oil--a serving of this contains a whopping 2200 IU of D. All fish contains D, including salmon, trout, catfish, tuna, sardines, halibut. Also shellfish like oysters and mollusks.
If you're not a fish eater, there are still lots of options, Milk is usually fortified with D, as are most cereals. Meats, cheese, and eggs (mostly in the yolk) all contain D, although in much lower concentrations than fish.
D is more readily absorbed by the body when taken with something high in calcium.
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
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Marnie
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Cook the eggs over easy to preserve the MANY good components in the YOLK.
Eggs are GOOD for us, not bad...packed with nutrients/
We NEED lecithin in yolk... it is a biologically valuable substance that every cell of the body needs. The more important an organ is, the more lecithin it contains.
Lecithin is a fat molecule that contains important nutrients, such as choline, phosphate and fatty acids.
How are you gonna make acetylcholine without sufficient choline?
Lecithin is a fat EMULSIFIER...in high doses it can LOWER cholesterol. It is in a lot of chocolates to make them "smooth".
An egg contains a ton of healthy nutrients as do certain seeds (pumpkin,etc.) and certain nuts (almonds, macadamian, etc.) which also are good for us...loaded with really important nutrients.
Scared about not cooking the eggs thoroughly? Get the pasteurized kind of eggs for a few pennies more.
Vitamin D...calcium...boron...a "trinity" of sorts.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
The word "vitamin" was coined near the beginning of the 20th century from the two words "vital amines", to refer to compounds (amines) in foods that are essential (vital) to good health; with sufficient sun exposure we should not need to ingest vitamin D, nor would we need to fortify foods with it. Since it does not occur naturally in most plant based foods, it doesn't fully fit the original definition of "vitamin".
The classic "steroid" hormones, like estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, come from a cholesterol molecule modified by a specialized body organ, ovary, testis, adrenal, respectively. Vitamin D is made from cholesterol that is modified in an organ, skin, by the effect of sunlight, hence it pretty much fits the description of a hormone, except that the sunlight changes the configuration of the cholesterol precursor so that vit. D doesn't quite resemble the other steroid hormones when it is in it's completed form.
Since cholesterol takes the ionizing (damaging) energy of sunlight and renders it harmless by turning it into the work of a chemical isomerization, you could say that vitamin D is a byproduct of the detoxification of sunlight, and cholesterol is the detoxifier.
Sunlight has been with us since we rose from the primordial soup, if you chose to believe the evolutionists, or since God created the universe out of the void when he(she?) said "let there be light". vitamin D, by that logic, is the primordial vitamin.
Posts: 60 | From Maine | Registered: Jan 2012
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nonna05
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Member # 33557
posted
doc......was that a big yes.?? Take it......
It's essential..... I don't understand how one test , the usual D blood draw can be low. then the other slightly or just high and that's when it's bad/or not great//
I either need a massive amount of D3 right now to get this through to brain
As I said above I've asked doctor's ...there's a yes , a no and a yes/no from 3 different doc's.If you include the RA or ID doc they are both yes ,but script,so I know that's wrong.
I'm starting to have some pretty bad days /worse that usual, again...
I feel like a Babs flare....
The only other thing I can think of was starting GSE..but that shouldn't be an issue that I know of.
It's like I want to go take 10,000 plus units to put a band-aid on some of this and hope I have something left in me to work with to ask/figure out what to do... It doesn't seem like 2000 units every few days does anything...
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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Member # 33557
posted
from the above remark/ post by jpd710.
.could this have something to do with Sammy and all the trouble or some of the trouble with the back???
I wonder if she's a D3 taker or not...
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Consider this Nonna, If for breakfast, you have a serving of Kellog's All-Bran with extra fiber, that's 219 IU of vit D. Pour a cup of 1% lowfat milk over it, and that's another 248 IU of D. Eat an egg or two over easy, that's another 41 IU from each egg. Wash this breakfast down with a glass of orange juice fortified with calcium and vit D--259 IU of D. =808 IU, just with breakfast! And the calcium rich OJ will help with absorption of the D.
If you have salmon for dinner, you'd get roughly 600 IU per serving from that. Have a side of mashed potatoes made with milk: 16 IU of D. If you butter your potatoes, that's another 16 IU of D. =632 IU.
And we haven't even covered vegetables, or lunch or snacks or dessert, of which many options would increase your daily intake of D even more.
With the right dietary choices, it is not hard to consume 2000 IUs of D every day.
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
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nonna05
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posted
Maryland Mom , That sounds sane and easy, and I thank you for the visual.
I'd have to hire a maid/ helper or something..wish I could..
I have not found my golden egg yet
I can't cook right now .
Lord I have trouble opening my mail every couple weeks..or get to a doctor .
That's one of the big questions I have about the fatigue/double lead suit on....
Kinda in a stuck situation...
If I had the amount of energy I had before steroid shots (even though I was sick).
I would sometimes do some juices .Cook tons of veggies and fish/chicken, do home soups .etc
When I ask or kinda beg/plead . I might get a day or two..... then ..off goes the switch...
5 of my last 15 meals were straight from a box.. not zapped...not frozen..
My body is not on a normal schedule, so I'm out when breakfast happens on many day's.
Tonight a fruit bowl with nuts and yogurt from am . was my food at 9 PM when I started coming around
I can't handle some of the" Stuff" that is made/goes overboard on creative.
So I have supplement's around to help.
Some meals have good stuff. I can eat etc.......
There are day's I barely get food in me to take pills...just rough days
I do the nutrition drinks when I can or have them here..
Right now , if the food was in house, I could maybe make and egg, or eat a bowl of cereal....
but it's midnight and I can't make the noise...
I have been told ,or read here no, milk, carbs,red meat, certain breads ,on and on etc..
You described a normal everyday ,anybody breakfast, that sounded great!
Don't get me wrong, everyday is not a bad food day , but there are plenty of bumps in that road.
The D drops are on my headboard.
I could put a few drops on a cracker and that would be that.. I can't take B or Multiple's at night ,it makes it even harder to sleep when it's dark out.
Weird, when they tested my adrenal's I said they should do late in day instead of AM because this sleep thing has been goofy for a few years.
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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nonna05
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Anybody that has gotten well..... Did they do vitamin D ,in high doses??????
I'm not sure all new procedures are the answer Like Pam and Dr. B letting go, falling back and then hitting hard with Ceftin...
How lond ago was that??
How often do you see Ceftin mentioned here or anywhere??//
Did TF, TuTu, Six goofy, Maryland Mom , Gigi,,whoever else, take loads of D3
I did the major Detox protocol for 7 days and felt 2% better for 5 days........Juice , supplements, enemas , etc.
That put me off from so many of these extreme treatments.....
Anybody from the "outside" looking at my meds, supps,drops, vits. herbs etc .Think it's all just crazy and EXTREME....
What's crazy is feeling like Cr-- all the time, having so many migrating symptom's ,throwing so much at it and still stare at four walls when not knocked out.....
It's crazy cause you know something IS out there that can get you better, though it will take longer cause went to so many unknowing ducks for so long that these bugger bug's just set up camp..
So if something so simple as extra D3 will help ...Great.
It's just that that's it ...it's not JUST so Simple......
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Nonna, my Rheumatologist was the first to prescribe 50,000IU's of Vit D in prescription form weekly. Traditional docs regularly prescribe this weekly dose for those who are low. Now I take Biotech D3 50,000 IU.
Why not try a high dose and see if you feel better. There's conflicting info on Vit. D brought on by the Marshall protocol. It improves fatigue for me instantly.
Grape fruit seed extract CAN cause a herx. I know you're using it as a cyst -buster, but it is also anti-bacterial, anti-parasitic and anti-fungal.
Posts: 964 | From san diego | Registered: Oct 2009
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nonna05
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Member # 33557
posted
baileypup,,Thanks that's what I was digging for any cross over effect from what I'm supposed to take/..Did you see my post on tingles tonight?
Or the last 3rd of my I need prayer post in general ..They just kinda draw a picture that needs an answer... I know we all need help....Thank you
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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MichaelTampa
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Member # 24868
posted
I use energetic testing for my supplements, to decide if/when/how much to take. I can say that early on in my treatment, first year or so, I tested to NOT take vitamin D. This was so even though the blood levels tested low.
At some point, that all changed and my body started wanting lots of it, to the point where it got in the high end of the healthy range.
So, I do believe that it's not always good. I believe you won't get well until it's in the good range, but that doesn't mean the fastest way to getting well is to always supplement.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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nonna05
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posted
Thank you for that
Still...those that got well a while ago ..was D3 an issue,,,,,,, Like was it usual protocol or was it not really thought about except bacic vit???//
Some one posted that when taking B=shots one needs to supplement potassium...for some reason it draws that...
these criss cross thing's are really confusing..'
wish there was a chart//
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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AuntyLynn
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Member # 35938
posted
To answer the previous question about taking D ... it's my mother who has the Lyme. When I started giving her Cod Liver Oil, I was also giving her Tumeric Force (by New Chapter).
Within a few days, she started asking questions we did not think that she had the capability to formulate!
So was it the D, the curcumin, or the combination of both? I do know that she was slightly on the low side of normal for D at the time I started supplementing with the Carlsons CLO.
She had a history, over several previous years, of having her cognition "fall off a cliff" right around the holidays. This made me wonder if all the D she had stored up from summer sunbathing (she's a sunworshiper)had gotten "used up" by late November.
But THEN I also realized, that she would get a FLU SHOT every year, at about that same time!!
So whether it was the aluminum adjuvent in the vaccine, or whether it was the extra "challenge" to her already diminished immunity, it seems the shot was more likely the culprit, over her "low" Vit D, which was tested at around 28.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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AuntyLynn
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BTW, MarylandMom -
It's my understanding that the D (and some fat) is needed to absorb the calcium. Either way, the foods you mentioned are all good sources. Especially the egg yolk, which some folks have been foolishly convinced to toss!
Just as a personal preference, I avoid Orange Juice with "added" calcium & whatnot. I like to know exactly what sources I am taking in the way of supplements, and in general, food manufacturers tend to "go cheap."
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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AuntyLynn
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BTW, MarylandMom -
It's my understanding that the D (and some fat) is needed to absorb the calcium. Either way, the foods you mentioned are all good sources. Especially the egg yolk, which some folks have been foolishly convinced to toss!
Just as a personal preference, I avoid Orange Juice with "added" calcium & whatnot. I like to know exactly what sources I am taking in the way of supplements, and in general, food manufacturers tend to "go cheap."
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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AuntyLynn
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Nonna5 -
My heart goes out to you girl! If you can't eat, how can you give your body any strength to fight?
The nutritionist Adele Davis might tell you to mix up a batch of her famous "fortified milk" - which starts off as an egg nog, to which she would add brewers yeast (HIGH B vitamins) and some extra pantothenic acid and calcium!
She would say people who are fighting an illness, need as much nutrition as they can get, in small portions. She advised her clients to make a batch of this milk each day, and sip on it whenever they felt hungry.
Do you enjoy milk? If you don't have a known allergy, please don't be afraid to add it to your diet.
Of course, if you want the most nutritious and delicious milk on the planet, you should order from a "certified" dairy, where you can get whole raw milk from grass fed cows. When agribiz tried to pump up production by feeding cows an unnatural diet of grain, it became necessary to pasteurize.
Grass fed raw dairy is very safe, and is loaded with probiotics and digestive enzymes, as well as proteins that have not been altered by high heat pasteurization - just like human mothers' milk!
The campaign to frighten Americans off of animal fats, was based on an unproven "cholesterol" theory.
Mainly, corporate producers wanted us to believe that "skim" milk was healthy, so they could make more money selling the cream. They also had this "new" butter substitute, made from rancid hydrogenated vegetable oil, they wanted to sell at big profit margins - which is, basically, "recycled" garbage.
Tribal people for millenia, thrived on whole raw milk and cheeses, and they treasured eggs, including fish eggs.
When you think of it, these are the foods that Mother Nature has provided to nurture the most fragile of her creatures.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
Been away from my computer the last few days--my daughter got married this past weekend.
AuntyLynn, you make some good points, and what you shared about your mother's experience is very interesting. I hope she is continuing to do well?
I gave some specific examples to try to illustrate the many sources of D that are available, but I too have wondered about the quality of "added" vitamins and minerals in OJ and other products. Just one of many possible options.
Personally, I usually rely on low fat milk and dairy products to satisfy the majority of my calcium requirements, but I know not everyone tolerates dairy well.
Dark green leafy vegetables also have calcium, but also contain oaxalates which inhibit calcium absorption...and other options, such as fish...it seems naturally occurring calcium from dairy is simplest and easiest.
Nonna, I did take a D3 supplement for awhile, but just for a few months near the end of my treatment. I had been experiencing bone pain, a symptom of D deficiency, so my LLMD checked my levels and found I was deficient.
The D3 supplement helped me when I needed it. The bone pain quickly subsided, and overall, I felt better on it.
Posts: 962 | From Charleston | Registered: Jan 2002
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