posted
Hi everyone...I have major intestinal issues from lyme and coinfections. I have noticed that my intestinal issues seem to have not changed even slightly since going entirely gluten free, and I also cannot gain weight to (literally) save my life. Do you think it would be safe for me to add some gluten back to my diet to see if it causes no ill effects and if it helps me put some weight back on?
I am down 2 lbs this morning-I was 85 lbs but now I am down to 83 again and its scaring the hell out of me. Has anyone here added any gluten back to their diet and suffered no ill effects, or must I remain gluten free no matter what? I cannot put into words what it is like to watch yourself fade away a little more each day. Scary as hell. Thanks in advance for any responses. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
Hey- Just objectively, someone who reads your threads (and cares)
do whatever you have to do to gain weight. I'd say that is paramount.
Sending good thoughts your way----
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
chastain,
Have you treated for parasites at all? Weight loss can be a symptom of parasites because they literally eat what you ingest.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Sounds really serious, chastain. I don't think adding gluten back into your diet will benefit you. It does sound like you need to treat for parasites.
In the meantime, have you tried something like Ensure? Also, have you tried digestive enzymes? I use one called Digestzymes by Designs for Health, from my Dr., which has helped my digestion a lot.
There is also a powder called Ultraclear Sustain from Metagenics. It helps heal gut issues and also has protein in it. It's spendy, at $64 per container, but it is medical food.
Wondering what your doctor is offering you, what is your doctor currently having you do for this? And, as Gael asked, have you treated for parasites?
Your situation sounds urgent. Please take care and let us know how you're doing.
Posts: 873 | From WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
chastain,
I am worried about you too. Adding some weight back on is much more important at the moment than remaining gluten free.
I agree with hopeful4, try the Ensure or something similar and get in touch with your Dr.
posted
Oh I forgot. While many do not believe that paragone is strong enough for parasites, it does have bismuth citrate.
There was a study that indicated that bismuth citrate kills lyme. Steve Buhner has mentioned this and it is one of the first suggested treatments for lyme in gut.
It used to be given with those who had h pylori in rantinidine. Don't get it confused with the bismuth citrate that is injected by IV.
Just a thought.
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Jess, forget the Lyme diet. Just eat anything and everything that sounds good. Weight is the number one priority in my view. I added back gluten last week. Has made no difference either way. I'm determined to stay above 100 lbs! My body needs to be strong to fight this!! Please go see someone who specializes in this--a GI? Even of they Are jerks. Just use them to help you get your weight up. You can always treat again after you gain some weight. Pleas keep us posted. Jessie
Posts: 342 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Dec 2011
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beths
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18864
posted
Eat gluten-just make sure it's healthy carbs like whole wheat grains smeared with butter.
You need to do whatever you can to gain weight.
Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Thanks so much everyone..What makes this extra hard is I vomit up a lot of my food and also I am extremely nauseous all the time. I also have lower intestinal issues too. I am definitely going to look into treating parasites. In the meantime, I am going to try to just eat what I can whenever I can, gluten free or not.
I am really so tired of this. Everyone that I love is freaking out and crying and I have people coming by all the time to my house just to "check up" on me. I am scaring myself and others with this and I need to try to arrest it.
I really do think if I could desire food and keep it down, my health would improve so very much. My goal right now is to just push through and keep eating even if it makes me sick. I can't starve myself unintentionally as I have been doing to try to avoid symptoms. Food is a necessity. I appreciate so much the support and suggestions. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First, there are likely many factors. Parasites should be considered fully.
Just about gluten, though, I don't see the reasoning here as to why adding back in gluten would help you gain weight. There are plenty of other foods that are gluten free that are full of GOOD calories and KEY nutrients.
Black, Red, Brown and WILD Rices, Millet, etc. . . in addition to the full plant kingdom. There is no reason to ever go hungry when avoiding gluten.
IMO, it's vital to remain gluten free until this is figured out. But many who think they are gluten-free may not actually be so.
Unless you've had a genetic test for celiac and came out of that with flying colors, IMO, it's very dangerous to keep eating gluten at this point.
You need to know if you have celiac or not. Genetic test is the best way to determine the likelihood of that but, still, with lyme and "leaky gut" from lyme, it is really best to refrain from gluten until a good recovery has been made, even in the absence of celiac.
With infection, the gut is so damaged that gluten can further damage it even if one is not celiac.
Google: Hidden Sources of Gluten
Also know that for someone who should not be eating gluten to do so can endanger their life. It can contribute to brain and neurological trouble for up to six months AFTER exposure.
Gluten can kill. And it does.
IMO, Ensure is just a science project and a crime against nutrition. It may keep you alive but it won't allow you to get better. It's not real food and will not give your body the full range of nutrients needed.
Also, you seem to be trying to figure this out on your own. Where is your LLMD with all this? A LL ND could help, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- This was posted a while back for you. I hope you were able to get the book AND contact the author for a consult. In case it slipped by:
Living (Well!) with Gastroparesis: Answers, Advice, Tips & Recipes for a Healthier, Happier Life
December 2011 - About the Author:
. . . currently the only Certified Health Counselor specializing in gastroparesis management and one of very few health professionals with both personal and professional experience with the condition. . . .
posted
keebler, I appreciate the suggestions so much. I disagree with your take on Ensure, but I respect your reasoning behind it. My llmd is there for me and we collaborate on my treatment plans but to be honest-I think we are all obligated to try to figure as much of this out on our own as possible. I don't trust any doctor fully, not even my llmd. I feel a need to verify and to try to come to conclusions through my own questioning and research. I have lost blind faith in all doctors, llmds included.
Thanks again for the suggestions though. I think I will try a week without gluten restrictions to see what happens. I have been biopsied for celiac as well as blood tested and so far absolutely no evidence of it. There is no doubt that I have been gluten free lately especially as I have only consumed apples, eggs, cheese, quinoa pasta and chicken and kale in the past several weeks. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
For what it's worth-- if your system can't tolerate gluten, then eating gluten again will not be a Ok or even neutral thing to do to your body.
My young son is gluten intolerant. When his LLMD first told us that he also told us that our son was actually seriously malnourished. No matter that we had always provided him what was otherwise a very healthy diet, the gluten had prevented his system from absorbing most of the nutrients in that wholesome diet.
Malnourishment can't lead to weight gain, and even if it did, I'd think the weight gain was too high a price for robbing your body of what it genuinely needs to fight on. Only if you're gluten intolerant, of course.
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Ensure is filled with GMO ingredients. GMO ingredients can rip up the stomach and prevent nutrient absorption, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Hi sometimes...I am not gluten intolerant. I stopped eating gluten because it was recommended but have not seen any benefits really one way or the other. I am so completely confused as to what to do with diet. It is so stressful....Ensure is all that soothes my stomach most days, but I know many are against it on here.
I think I am just gonna eat whatever I can and to heck with it. I have spent months eating the lyme diet and I am getting sicker....so I am going to try to just eat what I can. The anxiety over "am I eating the right thing, is this food going to set back my treatment" is so stressful. i almost feel like I am developing an eating disorder now-I am so afraid of food, and thats not natural.
I am gonna just eat what I can keep down and that doesnt make me feel sicker for a week or so and then reassess. Thanks again everyone so much for the suggestions. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
I think you should eat whatever you can. You should be taken Zofran and Phenergan.
Organic Peppermint and Organic Ginger tea.
I too have lost 60 lbs. I stayed off milk and gluten for many months but I was all skin and bones and started eating whatever I want to now. You should ask for a protein shake.
Take care,
Posts: 697 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
chastain - all I can think is parasites, without a doubt. I think you need to act asap.
Everyone I know who has been sick like you, has had parasite issues.
I lost a lot of weight last year and could not gain no matter what I ate. Finally, after starting to treat parasites 5+ month ago, I have been gaining weight and feeling much better. (I am still passing parasites every single day, which is beyond shocking to me.)
Please read some of my past posts.... and of course glm1111's posts. Gael is very knowledgeable in this area. Treating parasites saved her life, and now she is well.
Best to you.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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lax mom
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Member # 38743
posted
chastain: if it soothes your stomach, I would say that's a good thing.
I just started drinking Amazing Meal, chocolate infusion and I love it in Almond Milk.
posted
Thanks lax...yes the Ensure is incredibly soothing to me...it is the one thing I can consume that I actually love and makes my stomach feel decent for a bit. I appreciate the link to the Amazing Meal product...is it easily digestible for you? Thanks again so much. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
I lost over 100lbs in 3 1/2 years. I ate a lot of food, but most of it was like a Atkins diet. It was the only thing that didn't make me sick. I have now added green apples, lemon and lime juice, blueberries, and grapefruit.
Something that taste so good to me and seems to be soothing is plain greek yogurt, a tablespoon of coconut cream, cinnamon, and a handful of blueberries.
I sweeten it with stevia. Sometimes I eat it just stirred up and other times I put it in a bullet blender and make a smoothie, either way I don't feel so deprived.
It has helped me gain some weight.
Actually, I am going to have to try to cut back on the food.
I don't want to gain all my weight back.
Posts: 620 | From Ks | Registered: Oct 2011
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lax mom
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posted
Hmmm, now that I think about it, maybe the Amazing meal wouldn't be very good for you right now. It's not very easily digested.
I was looking for something packed with nutrients and protein because I've lost my appetite lately...and I was relying on Instant Breakfast, which I'm sure isn't ideal.
On balance, I'd rather put some Instant Breakfast in my system and get a little bit of nourishment, than eat nothing and starve my body because I'm so nauseated from treatment.
posted
Thanks cozy...that yogurt smoothie idea sounds great. I appreciate it, and will try it ASAP! Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
chastain,
I usually don't do this after I give a suggestion, however I feel compelled to add that you have been posting about this weight loss for a while now.
Several people including myself, soccermom and Tammy have suggested you treat for parasites. You have said that you would look into in the past and now again.
You really need to take this more seriously and take action ASAP and order some antiparasitics so you can start tx and hopefully gain some weight back.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Nothing will work if you have a parasite problem. I hope you consider looking into it. With all of your symptoms and weight loss, it doesn't seem possible that parasites are not a problem. Parasites can only be kept at bay when there is a healthy gut environment. When there is not, they have free reign.
I hope you don't mind my urging. It's coming from a place of concern and caring. I know it can be overwhelming.
Sending well wishes your way.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
No tammy I am so glad you are mentioning it. Where did you get your parasite testing done? What lab was it sent to? I appreciate the well wishes and I definitely agree that parasites are a major possibility. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581
posted
Jess, there are special elemental formulas called Elecare and Neocate that are used by people who can't tolerate any food. The idea would be to go on one those, then once your intestinal issues settle down, try adding back in foods one at a time, keeping track of resurgence of symptoms and backtracking when necessary. Another option would be a g-tube (a feeding tube). It probably sounds extreme but it sounds like your body really needs some nutrition and some weight before you can heal.
I'm sure it's annoying to have everyone checking in on you if you, like me, are someone more used to helping others than needing help yourself, but on the upside it's so wonderful that you have so many people who care about you.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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Tammy N.
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posted
chastain - I had testing in the past that was negative. When I asked my LLMD last year she said don't even bother with the testing as it almost always comes back negative (results are even more unreliable than for Lyme).
I would just start treating right away and see what happens. Maybe start with Humaworm or Parastroy. Then slowly start adding in some salt/c (1/4tsp each to start).
I tolerated meds very well (Biltricide, Ivermectin, Pyrantel, Albenza and Alinia). I seem to handle herbs and salt/c just as well. All of these treatments cause me to pass parasites daily.
I think the salt/c is very important when going the herbal route. For instance, glm1111 was on antiparasitic herbs for 6 months and saw nothing. It was not until she started adding the salt/c that she says 'all hell broke loose'. Then she started passing for months.
I think you will be amazed. By far, I think this is your most important next step.
Wishing you well.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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Judie
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Member # 38323
posted
I lost a third of my body weight once. It was from the effects of antibiotics 2 YEARS after I stopped taking them. My stomach was vulnerable to all kinds of bacterial/parasitic infections and they set up camp.
My doc did a CDSA test (comprehensive digestive stool test) and got to the root of the problem. I got well very quickly after the problem was identified correctly.
After dropping to the body weight of when I was a preteen, it got very scary. It didn't matter what I ate I got sick and lost weight. No supplements helped because my gut couldn't absorb anything. Once I got my gut in order I could eat anything and do fine. I gained weight quickly after that.
Lastly, I do great with dairy and gluten now. No problems. I did rotation diets for 2 years with a nutritionist (eating organic and omitting all the known offenders). I actually do better with dairy and wheat products. Go figure....Adding them back in wasn't a problem for me.
We're all individual. Find a good ND to work with in your area if you can.
Oh, and I just remembered something else. I needed to change the proportion of my food to be protein heavy to gain weight, but this only worked AFTER I got my gut in order after the CDSA test.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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WP-thank you also for the advice. It can be annoying to have people check up on me because I am such an independent person but I to know that I am cared for by some really awesome people-esp my friends and my dad-means an enormous amount to me. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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sparkle7
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Member # 10397
posted
I haven't followed your story... What makes you think you need to avoid gluten? I know alot of people do this but I have never had a problem with it. If you aren't sure it makes a difference - it doesn't seem like you are intolerant.
I ditto the folks saying to do an anti-parasite protocol. The tests are not accurate. You can do it yourself with an herbal anti-parasite formula. There are many. If you have parasites - you will probably know in a few weeks of taking the formula. You will see them in the toilet or your symptoms will increase.
If you need to gain weight - eat what you can tolerate. Some people here are "purists" & there's nothing wrong with that but when it comes down to survival - eat whatever it is that you can.
There are a million different theories about food & diet. If you can eat something & it doesn't make you ill - do so. When you feel better, you can sort it out & look for "healthier" options.
Once person I know was havig a screaming arguement in the supermarket about drinking organic chocolate milk with another person. The person who wanted the chocolate milk was 85 years old & survived 2 or 3 kinds of cancer... The person arguing with her was around 60 & smoked cigarettes for many years but was a food "purist"... Go figure?
I think it's important to just eat.
Some people have found that smoking pot helps with nausea & appitite. People with cancer use it for that purpose.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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beaches
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Member # 38251
posted
FWIW, we were totally GF for the better part of a year. As the mom, I was (and remain) in charge of what food is in the house. It was very difficult to be strictly GF but I was committed to it since it could possibly be the key to help DD.
It made NO difference whatsoever so we went back to including gluten in the diet, though not crazily. I still try to focus our diet on lean proteins, fruits and veggies. The difference now is that we can have a piece of crusty Italian bread with our fresh mozzarella and tomato. And now I can make regular pasta every so often instead of the GF.
But most importantly: regarding your weight issue, I am wondering why your doctor has not recommended TPN (Total Parenteral Nutrition given via IV). This treatment has been around for many, many years and is not at all controversial. Please ask your doc about this ASAP.
In the meantime, forget the GF diet and focus on good foods that could add a few pounds to your too thin self: eggs, ice cream, cheese, meat.
Some ideas: an egg sandwich with bacon and cheese, a loaded omelette, cheesecake, an ice cream sundae, a cheeseburger with fries, a baked potato with sour cream and butter, Chinese food-fried rice, fried dumplings, lo-mein, Italian food-ravioli, manicotti, baked ziti, lasagna.
Hoping and praying you get the answers you need to maintain your current weight and gain several more pounds to boot.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
for nausea a "natural" soda that really helps me:
I use the "double ginger" flavor. It will also help add some calories.
I hate to recommend "Ensure" because it has so many chemicals but when I was in your shoes I used Ensure. When my husband was sick I found something called "Orgain" - a healthy and organic "Ensure" type drink.
I get the ginger drink at Kroger's in the health food section and I purchased Orgain online.
I also ate full fat organic yogurt, whole milk with a low carb protein powder or whatever I could swallow.
God Bless .... I hope you are able to eat soon.
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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poppy
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Member # 5355
posted
Keebler posted about gastroparesis, and I think that is at least as likely, or even more likely than parasites. Lyme is a neurological disease, and vagus nerve infection can cause the GI problems you are having. Read up on vagus nerve.
IMO, all of the weight loss could be due to infection.
A doctor once suggested gluten free to me, because it helped some of his patients. But if you aren't sensitive to this, don't bother. I can't see that it makes any difference to me. Yeast, though, is an issue when I eat carbs, so nystatin and selecting better carbs. They will definitely put weight on you, but it is necessary to deal with the yeast that will occur.
[ 10-28-2012, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: poppy ]
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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glm1111
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posted
In reference to gastroparesis. Parasites can be the CAUSE because they hibernate in the small intestine causing inflammation and blockage.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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poppy
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Member # 5355
posted
I am wondering if a person who can't keep anything down is going to have trouble with parasite meds. In fact, that may be her problem with her current tbd treatment. Her doctor is considering IV, which sounds like a better choice for someone with gastroparesis and major weight loss.
Gael, it is good to think about parasites, but you sometimes seem to me to go overboard in projecting your own experience onto others. That is always a temptation in patient support forums.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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glm1111
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posted
I understand what your saying poppy, however it is not just my own experience that has brought me to that conclusion. There are others here who felt the same way about my continuos posting about parasites and called me on it as you are doing.
Some of these same people are now experiencing an exodus of parasites when they decided to take antiparasitics because they couldn't get well.
I receive e-mails and pms quite often thanking me for my persistence and that they are now getting well due to parasite tx. They said they would have not considered that angle otherwise and would continue to be chronically ill.
Dr. K. treats ALL of his patients for parasites FIRST and Lyme SECOND. I apologize if my postings are annoying to anyone, but I really feel it's that important to make people aware.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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MannaMe
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Member # 33330
posted
My husband uses Garden of Life protein shake for the extra nutrition.
He has been totally gluten free for 6 months and saw no difference. We continue to keep his gluten foods to a minimum, but aren't stressing out if he gets some gluten occasionally.
He has been wondering about parasites also. The choices of parasite cleanses were overwhelming. He decided to start out by rifing for parasites. So far he didn't say anything about passing any parasites. But he did say sometimes when he has a BM it smells awful. Figures the rifing must be killing something!
By rifing he wasn't adding anything that could potentially mess up his already sensitive gut. He used GI-Revive from Designs For Health to heal up his gut.
Posts: 2249 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
The doc told me I need to cut out gluten AND casein, as casein can be a poison for some.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Thanks everyone for the replies..poppy, I share your concern about anti parasitic drugs being possibly too harsh for me right now. I just got an email back from my llmd telling me that is his conclusion as well, and I think he is correct. My gastroparesis is a major factor in why I cannot eat well, and it is def from nerve damage due to lyme.
I am eating whatever for a week and seeing what happens. I am not going to deliberately eat gluten, but I am not going to avoid it either. I am literally going to eat whatever I feel I can keep down at any given time. This is about survival right now. Once I am out of immediate danger, I can worry about treating all these infections and/or parasites and/or gremlins I have inside me. I need to assure I live first.
Thank you so much everyone for the support and suggestions, btw! I appreciate it a lot. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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Just about gluten, though, I don't see the reasoning here as to why adding back in gluten would help you gain weight. There are plenty of other foods that are gluten free that are full of GOOD calories and KEY nutrients.
Black, Red, Brown and WILD Rices, Millet, etc. . . in addition to the full plant kingdom. There is no reason to ever go hungry when avoiding gluten.
IMO, it's vital to remain gluten free until this is figured out. But many who think they are gluten-free may not actually be so.
Unless you've had a genetic test for celiac and came out of that with flying colors, IMO, it's very dangerous to keep eating gluten at this point.
You need to know if you have celiac or not. Genetic test is the best way to determine the likelihood of that but, still, with lyme and "leaky gut" from lyme, it is really best to refrain from gluten until a good recovery has been made, even in the absence of celiac.
With infection, the gut is so damaged that gluten can further damage it even if one is not celiac.
Google: Hidden Sources of Gluten
Also know that for someone who should not be eating gluten to do so can endanger their life. It can contribute to brain and neurological trouble for up to six months AFTER exposure.
Gluten can kill. And it does.
- I agree!! Eat any grain that does NOT contain gluten .. and there are plenty of them!!
If you are gluten intolerant, and you eat gluten, you will be BLOCKING nutrients from getting into your system via the gut.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Oh my goodness!!! *raises hand excitedly* Ok, I've been having the EXACT same problem - finally, a couple of weeks ago my gut just completely caved. I vomited everything I ate and when I wasn't vomiting I wanted to and was extremely nauseous. Even water made me sick to my stomach.
I'm not sure WHAT exactly has been causing my issues - gastritis, gastoperesis, h pylori, leaky gut, candida?? After multiple doctors visits no cause was found (shocking, I know). Out of desperation I got on the internet and stumbled across bone broth. This is the single most nourishing thing that you can put in your stomach right now.
You can find several "recipes" online and I'll tell you how I did mine. I bought a whole chicken and cut most of the "muscle meat" off. Then I hacked at the bones, breaking them into smaller pieces (splitting the bones releases the marrow and gelatin and all the nutrients during cooking) it took me about ten minutes total. Put the all the bones, heart, liver, some fat and a little meat in a stock pot, fill pot half full of water, covering all bones and add two tablespoons of any kind of vinegar that you have on hand. The vinegar softens the bones and helps to further release nutrients. Add a couple of carrots chopped and a couple of of stalks of celery chopped. I also added shiitake mushrooms. Cover and bring to a boil, then reduce to a simmer and cook for about 8 hours. After three hours you may consume the broth But continue cooking for several more hours.
The bones of animals are full of nutrients and minerals that cant be found in anything else - when you boil them the broth is so nourishing and EXTREMELY healing to a damaged gut. I can't tell you how much this has helped me.
For the first two days I consumed nothing but bone broth with the veggies. The only other things did - I increased my probiotics x three - whereas before I was taking three per day I began taking nine. I also began taking a TBLSP of apple cider vinegar in morning and evening, plus a teaspoon of aloe Vera juice morning and evening. Just this for two days.
Third day I added a small bowl of organic brown rice in morning and evening and a banana at lunch. I also added cayenne pepper pills, one in the morning and one in the evening. The cayenne pepper pills made me nervous at first, but I've had nothing but positive results from them. The capsaicin in the cayenne dailies the blood vessels in the stomach allowing nutrients to be absorbed more readily. It also kills h pylori and stimulates the appetite naturally.
After a few days of this my stomach felt remarkably better and I have gradually increased a couple of things at a time back into my diet - especially kefir and kiombucha. I plan on making the bone broth, apple cider vinegar, aloe vera and cayenne a regular part of my diet. Google GAPS diet - its very similar to this.
I totally disagree with other posters suggesting a parasite cleanse right now. You're digestive system is too fragile to handle the die off. You need to focus on healing and nourishing your gut. IMO parasite killing will further damage it and at 80 pounds you simply can't afford that! Focus on bringing the gut back into balance FIRST.
Please, please, please try the bone broth and other things I mentioned. I can't tell you how much it has helped me and I literally thought I was dying - wasting away. Let me know if you have any questions or just need support in general. Hugs ~ Lauren
-------------------- "The only way out is through"
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I have a hard time getting good beef bones but always turn chicken bones into a broth - and found a very easy way:
In just a small, two-quart pan, bones from a whole chicken will fit, break them down, cover with water, about one inch over the bones. Be sure there is plenty of room for some boiling but once boiling, then it's on to just a simmer with some rumbling but not full-on boil.
A four-quart pan works for the bones from two chickens.
Best done in heavy iron pot (such as Le Creuset) or at least with a heavy lid. Bring to a boil but then turn down to a simmer for hours.
A heavy lid will keep the liquid in the pan better than a lighter weight glass one. But, if you use glass, just check the water level now and then.
After a good long simmer, cool for just about 10 minutes and then scoop into a smooth colander similar to this - over another 2 quart pan (a lighter one will do - best if not teflon/non-stick. Stainless steel or enamel covered are best:
- link will come for "pasta scoop" - Stainless steel (not aluminum, not plastic and not even silicone)
The smoothness of the strainer is much easier than a wire mesh one.
cool a bit and then put in fridge overnight. Remove the fat and then you can put the gel broth into sturdy glass jars to freeze. Just leave some room in the jar. This will be very condensed so a cup per jar will go far. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
THANK YOU LAUREN!!! I will PM you for more info!! Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Stainless Steel, SMOOTH interior. Fits very nicely over just about any pan, from 2-quart to 6 or 8.
Best to avoid all non-stick coatings, plastics and all silicone types, too. (Search: Endocrine Disruptors).
After bones drain and are cooled a bit, just put into a used plastic bag with a turn of the wrist. If you are not going out soon (if you have pets), bones can be frozen until garbage day or a walk to the trash bin.
I detailed above how making broth is so much easier for me in a very small pot. However, if you like a big soup pot � or later for a big batch of soup or stew, here�s a fabulous one with a safe interior. While not cast iron, the heft of this pan is very good and the lid is substantially heavy and tight. This should last a lifetime, and then some.
You can find at many sites and kitchen stores. Other sizes, too.
To clean, be careful but a safe srubby can be used - &/or BARKEEPER's FRIEND.
Enamel is the best stick resistant interior, though, so sticking is usually not a problem. If so, soaking lifts anything off.
Enamel is just melted glass. Be sure anytime you buy an enamel pan, though, that you can be certain it is porcelain enamel. Some products out there are not. -
[ 10-28-2012, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lax mom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38743
posted
quote:Originally posted by glm1111: There are others here who felt the same way about my continuos posting about parasites and called me on it as you are doing.
Some of these same people are now experiencing an exodus of parasites when they decided to take antiparasitics because they couldn't get well.
I receive e-mails and pms quite often thanking me for my persistence and that they are now getting well due to parasite tx. They said they would have not considered that angle otherwise and would continue to be chronically ill.
I never, ever in a bazillion years would have thought parasites were a problem for me. I thought parasites were something that people had in 3rd world countries because they didn't have proper sanitation.
I always thought Gael's constant posting about parasites was nonesense...we don't have parasites in the US! I thought.
I was so very wrong. A lot of my symptoms fit the symptom list for parasites. So, I ordered a the Children's formula from Humaworm, just to prove to myself that parasites were NOT a problem.
After just 3 days, on the Children's dose, I "saw" that parasites are indeed a problem. I was disgusted and in shock. However, at least I now know what else I'm dealing with.
I thank Gael and Gigi for their persistence. Had they not CONSTANTLY posted about parasites, I never would have thought, "hmmm, could it possibly be a problem with me too?"
lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Thanks guys - Lymetoo glad that I've given you more motivation!!!
Honestly, I haven't been so excited about something since I got my rife machine a few years ago haha. But if you guys knew the gut problems I've been having the past few months - sheesh! And NOTHING has worked. I've tried antifungals, antiparasitics, antibiotics, digestive enzymes, tums, mylanta, pepto bismol, Prilosec - you name it, I've tried it.
And to think that a weeks worth of bone broth, apple cider vinegar, triple probiotics, aloe vera juice and cayenne pepper has seemingly healed my gut - seriously, I'm just really pumped about it:) Crazy that something so simple can be so effective!
I'm really intrigued by the GAPS diet - it just makes so much sense to me and really resonates. And TuTu - going to read the link you posted now...
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Lauren.. thanks for the info. The Cayenne scares me! It didn't hurt your stomach? And apple cider vinegar.... eek.
I have some and bought it for the bone broth. Last time I tried the ACV it was hard on my stomach. Maybe I need to dilute it more like you did.
Talktel.. no, you won't get the runs. Sometimes the opposite happens! My stomach can't handle the parasite treatment right now either. Tried it years ago. So-so results.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
TuTu, the cayenne scared me too, but the more I read about it the more courage I got - I finally just bit the bullet and did it. I take the pills from solaray, and taking it in pill form does not burn or tear up my stomach. Read about the amazing benefits of cayenne - helps everything from ulcers to hemroids to cancer.
The ACV does burn a little going down and for a minute or two once it hits the belly, but it dissipates pretty quickly. If its too much for your stomach try mixing it with a little bit of honey - that's what the guy at the health food store told me.
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Jess, Please ask your LLMD about the TPN. You need nutrition/fat/carbs/protein/calories ASAP and IMO this might be the best and fastest way to accomplish this.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Beaches-thanks for the suggestion but I DREAD the idea of TPN. I am doing everything to try to avoid it. I have really bad associations with TPN as I had a family member (by marriage only but she was like blood to me) die of ALS when I was a teen and she was on a feeding tube and IDK...I just have awful associations with a tube.
I am doing all I can to avoid the tube. I will of course do it if I keep losing weight and/or cannot gain weight, but it is my ultimate fear. I see it as a sign of terrible illness and it would make me feel so hopeless to be on a tube. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
will send you a PM
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Chastain, A friend in a very similar spot like you was encouraged by Dr. K. to get an ultrasound of the gallbladder. Yes, she found she has many many tiny gallstones. She is now preparing for treatment - non-surgically.
I did not read all of the above comments and possibly someone mentioned this already.
Oh, she also tests positive (energetically) for parasites, but is addressing the stones first.
Parasite treatment requires a lot of energy on the body's part and it also is leaving the clean-up for heavy metals that were held by the parasite. The people who ignore this part of the parasite killing will undoubtedly face the toxic metals somewhere along the lines, possibly in a much more difficult body compartment.
Don't feel bad, Gael, I know people are joking about my toxic metal/dental alerts. But I know what I am talking about all too well. I am very close to the source where this information comes from, and I also lived it all. We learn more and more, as more and more people go through the various facets of microbial infections. See my Babuschka Principle post below.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
I have been very, very interested in the data provided in this thread!
Recently, I was looking at some "gluten-free" foods in the grocery store, and they were full of ingredients that are probably genetically engineered, and include the gene that causes a stomach-destroying toxin, Bt. It wouldn't surprise me a bit that someone on a "gluten-free" diet would continue to have serious problems!
Many of the solutions proposed on this thread avoid genetically modified organisms entirely, without even mentioning them.
I spent about an hour watching the movie, Genetic Roulette, and it was truly worth it! It moves right along, and gives things a person can do. The movie is free to watch online at this time.
And, the site Institute for Responsible Technology has a downloadable shopping guide to help with buying foods that don't contain GMOs.
This may well be an undercut for dealing with Lyme and co-infections. In fact, in the movie, many patients with chronic illnesses and their doctors state that going non-GMO was a very important first step in getting well.
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
PS--this is not to make less of toxins, heavy metals, or parasites OR the bacteria themselves.
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Thanks so much....I drank some a little while ago. I am glad you think it might be helping you...let's hope it works for both of us . Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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Ellen101
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35432
posted
quote:Originally posted by chastain: keebler, I appreciate the suggestions so much. I disagree with your take on Ensure, but I respect your reasoning behind it. My llmd is there for me and we collaborate on my treatment plans but to be honest-I think we are all obligated to try to figure as much of this out on our own as possible. I don't trust any doctor fully, not even my llmd. I feel a need to verify and to try to come to conclusions through my own questioning and research. I have lost blind faith in all doctors, llmds included.
Thanks again for the suggestions though. I think I will try a week without gluten restrictions to see what happens. I have been biopsied for celiac as well as blood tested and so far absolutely no evidence of it. There is no doubt that I have been gluten free lately especially as I have only consumed apples, eggs, cheese, quinoa pasta and chicken and kale in the past several weeks. Jess.
Looking at what you have consumed in the past few weeks there is no way you will gain weight eating just that . I would forget about worrying about gluten and just eat whatever you want. What is paramount here is putting on weight. Sticking with what you were eating you will lose even more.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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