posted
So, after trial and error, my llmd and i finally figured out why I was so profoundly fatigued all the time.
Even though I do have babesia and am on malarone, we found that after a pulse of diflucan that my brain fog and fatigue were drastically improved. Surprise, surprise!
Unfortunately, it was only a 2 week course, and now the various itching in various places is returning, along with the fatigue.
I've been doing the natural anti-fungal rotation and have adopted an anti-candida diet, but clearly it hasn't done a thing. Only the diflucan is strong enough.
Has anyone been on long term diflucan while taking oral abx? Are there any other options?
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
What exactly is the natural anti-fungal rotation? Thanks!
Posts: 80 | From New England | Registered: Jun 2012
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Nystatin is a prescription.
Usually lyme docs give the pills. If you are given the liquid, be sure it doesn't have sugar in it. If it does, don't buy it. Sugar feeds yeast.
An anti-candida diet is necessary to keep yeast away. This diet takes away the "food" the yeast needs. Once you get candida, you will need diflucan to kill it. Docs don't like to give it for extended periods of time, but you can take it off and on.
You can also try oil of oregano. (Buy it in a health food store.) Put a few drops in an ounce or so of water, swish it in your mouth for a minute or so (burns a little), then swallow it. Do this 2-3 times per day.
Read Burrascano's way of clearing yeast from the mouth. That is where it starts, and then with every swallow, you put it in your intestinal tract.
While you are on antibiotics, you may not be totally able to get rid of the yeast. That's the way it was with one friend of mine. Then, your goal is just to keep it down to a manageable level.
I was always able to clear yeast with a 3-5 day course of Diflucan. But, not everybody can.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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TF
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posted
The take-away message for those starting out is: go on the anti-candida diet as soon as you start antibiotics. This gives you the best chance of avoiding yeast.
Do not cheat on the diet! Especially if you are on flagyl (metronidazole).
Once you get yeast during lyme treatment, it can be a never-ending battle trying to get rid of it. It is much better to try to avoid this problem entirely.
Yeast can make a person as sick as lyme disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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WPinVA
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posted
This is a timely post as I just logged on to get some more ideas about how to control yeast. I have had yeast issues since last November but I have been able to keep them manageable with a few days of Diflucan plus strong probiotics.
My problem is that the Diflucan doesn't seem to be working any more. I know I need to do better on diet (working on that). Is there anything else I can do to get it under control and stay on abx? Or do I have to take a abx break?
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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Ellen101
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posted
The symptoms of candida closely mimic Lyme. It is definitely possible that some are continuing to treat Lyme due to persistent symptoms when in fact they have candida ......
[ 03-05-2013, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Ellen101 ]
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tickled1
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posted
I think this happens more often than not.
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CherylSue
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posted
Hmmmm. That may be me. I'm treating lyme and babesia for a few years. I take nystatin daily, and my doctor did give me some diflucan to try, but I was timid. Maybe, it's time to try this.
I always feel worse the day after eating sugary foods.
It's surely somthing to try. Thanks.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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feelfit
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posted
Try Lufeneron. It kills yeast and has activity on parasites and aspergillis mold. Some lyme docs are using this now.
I just did one round and it packed a wallop. Doesn't damage your liver either. The die-off may overload your liver thought Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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feelfit
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posted
BTW, anti-fungals should always be rotated to prevent resistance and ideally, 2 anti-fungals should be combined. Example: Lufeneron and Nystatin.
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Ellen101: The symptoms of candida closely mimic Lyme. It is definitely possible that some are continuing to treat Lyme due to persistent symptoms when in fact they have candida ......
quote:Originally posted by feelfit: Try Lufeneron. It kills yeast and has activity on parasites and aspergillis mold. Some lyme docs are using this now.
I just did one round and it packed a wallop. Doesn't damage your liver either. The die-off may overload your liver thought
_ Are you going to do another round?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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feelfit
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posted
Lymetoo- YES!
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Update - so the fatigue and brain fog have settled in once again. Got to speak with LLMD today and she agreed to have me get back on the diflucan (yay!).
In the meantime, she suggested that I consider stopping the oral abx for a while to see if the fatigue and weakness are from the yeast or from the lyme.
At this point, I've been on various incarnations of abx for over a year now.
But I feel like I need to do something to get my life back. Seems a risk worth taking at this point, since I will lose my job in a few months if I'm not well enough to go back...
Thanks for all the great feedback!!
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
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She also has me on daily Olive leaf extract, along with copious probiotics and prebiotics (arabinogalactan).
I suppose if I wasn't on the antibiotics that this protocol would actually have a chance to work...
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
Update - stopped the abx and now having bartonella symptoms emerge. Yikes! Guess the minocycline was having weak activity against it and stopping it has caused a backlash.
Been having plantar fasciitis in one foot, now the other; tingling in my chin, and severe muscle weakness.
Hadn't realized that I had lyme, babesia AND bartonella - my llmd reminded me about it at my appt. yesterday.
As good as they are though, they are not as well-versed in bartonella. So I put in a call to tell them that I am going back on the minocycline.
When I finish the diflucan next week, I'm going to ask her to put me on rifampin to see if it has better activity on the bart.
I would try levaquin, but I've heard some awful stuff about it...
Posts: 348 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2011
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posted
Thanks, tutu! Yes - I've been so good about a clean diet. And LLMD is now on a kick to have her patients try plant-based diet too.
Been stocking up on some of her suggestions - hummus, veggie chips, farrow, and as usual, lots of organic veggies.
Been thinking about trying Banderol instead of minocycline until I hear back from LLMD next week.
I've seen some posts here saying that traditional abx are better at getting at bart than herbals.
What's your thinking on this?
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Essential oils need to be medical grade, otherwise they may not be safe to take internally. Most health food stores do NOT stock medical grade essential oils.
Anti-candida stuff:
Caprylic acid (from coconut oil) Antifungal tannins (Viracin, Tanalbit) Zinc tannates Grapefruit Seed Extract Oregano essential oil Lemongrass essential oil Garlic (raw) Probiotics and probiotic yeast (s. Boulardii) Proteolytic enzymes (take at least 2 hours away from probiotics)
Avoidance of yeast-containing foods, fermented foods (except Kefir/"friendly bacteria" fermented foods), sugar and artificial sweeteners, etc. -- i.e., google the candida diet.
Olive Leaf Extract has weaker antifungal properties compared to the above stuff.
Molybdenum can help the body process die-off toxins from candida, thus reducing the severity of die-off symptoms.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
is it the lufenerun they put in dog worm meds? i cant find it to buy
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Essential oils need to be medical grade, otherwise they may not be safe to take internally. Most health food stores do NOT stock medical grade essential oils.
- Right... I'm buying the best. Love them!
Aren't fermented foods for candida supposed to be GOOD for us?? My health coach wants me to try them but I have little tolerance for spicy stuff.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
According to the Body Ecology Diet book, fermented foods are one of the best ways to repopulate your gut with good bacteria, which in turn will starve out the candida.
Posts: 486 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
Lymetoo, you can ferment pretty much anything. They're not all spicy. You're probably thinking of kimchi, but there is also the basic sauerkraut, easy to make.
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Razzle
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
Aren't fermented foods for candida supposed to be GOOD for us?? My health coach wants me to try them but I have little tolerance for spicy stuff.
Yes, foods fermented with probiotic organisms are good - such as sourkraut, etc.
It is stuff fermented with yeast that is a problem...such as alcoholic beverages.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
I wish I could "like" posts here. Good info. Razzle, I've never really thought about it that way.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Ellen101
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posted
I eat kimchi a lot, love the stuff. I have a really hard time sometimes figuring out if my symptoms are from candida or my gluten allergy...its hard to follow both diets..
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Ellen, I think they go hand in hand. Gluten causes intestinal permeability, or leaky gut, and then yeast, which is normally contained in our digestive tract gets into the bloodstream through the gut wall. If you're eliminating wheat and gluten 100% (and casein too, because casein can be toxic to the gut as well) then it should help heal your gut and get everything under control.
The book Body Ecology Diet goes into all of this and teaches you how to heal your gut. I think she says to stay away from the spicy stuff initially though, until your gut heals some. But my point is that the gluten can cause or contribute to Candida via. intestinal permeability aka leaky gut.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I have harder time with sugar than I do wheat/gluten. If you cut out gluten first, say, for a few weeks, it is MUCH easier to get off sugar.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Ellen.. I follow both diets plus no dairy, no soy and no corn. It can be done. I'm pretty tired of it, but I must eat this way or I feel really lousy.
Thanks, Razzle. I wondered what you meant!!
I don't like sauerkraut either, but I could force myself to eat it if it would get rid of my candida!!
Anybody have a good recipe for sauerkraut? The reason I mentioned "spicy" is that many sites sell packages of starters for making fermented foods. They all look spicy.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Whole foods carries a few raw sauerkrauts in the refrigerated section. They are all really good.
Also, Kombucha is good for your gut.
You can make both at home, I have never done it though.
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Ellen101
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posted
Lymetoo what does your day look like in terms of meals snacks?
I'm confused about the sauerkraut. I've seen it in bags and bottle in the market but was afraid of the additives..
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
I was making my own kombucha but it had too much sugar for me. My yeast is really bad.
Ellen..
breakfast is spinach in coconut oil, add 2 scrambled eggs
Lunch is a smoothie with 1/2 avocado, coconut milk plus water, hemp powder, parsley, spinach, and ginger root. I was adding stevia and blueberries but cannot do that anymore due to the sugar.
Nuts for an afternoon snack or 1/2 avocado. Sometimes I eat a few bites of spinach or a some salad greens too.
Supper.. fish or chicken and broccoli, or other vegetable
Boring!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
You need to eat the RAW sauerkraut. Not the processed ones on the shelf. The raw ones are unprocessed and full of natural probiotics from the fermentation.
The Body Ecology Diet says 1/2 cup with each meal is best.
Posts: 486 | From USA | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
If you do 1/2 cup with each meal you will be rockin' it! If you make your own, you can make it without salt while it's fermenting, as Body Ecology Diet suggests, and you'll have a ton of probiotics in it.
Putting salt on it before you eat it helps with the taste. It's an acquired taste. After you try it a few times it starts to grow on you.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Ellen101
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posted
I think what is frustrating is when I think I'm eating the right thing but then I feel so awful afterwards. Tonight for dinner I had roasted chicken seasoned with garlic and Italian seasonings, quinoa seasoned with the same and some peas. The lower abdominal gas pains have been awful. What did I do wrong ????
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
You just haven to evaluate every little thing and if in doubt, call the company who made the product.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I'm sorry, I was thinking more like a season salt, maybe it wasn't the Italian seasoning. It could be the food combination. She also goes into this in the Body Ecology Book how to combine foods properly for good digestion. She says not to eat starches with protein. So it may have been that. The body ecology author has a website where you can search her articles. good info. www.bodyecology.com
There are 7 principles to the diet.
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Ellen101
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posted
Thanks girl! I just ordered the ebook. I noticed a lot of the reviews were positive, but a lot felt she self promotes her products too much. Did you order her products?
The Italian seasoning was just the McCormick seasoning. Perhaps you are right combining the veg, protein, starch may have been the issue???
I will probably have to order the paper version in order to highlight the dos and donts....
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
That is awesome you ordered the book! Yes, highlighting is definitely in order. It might seem like a lot of info. at first, but it's really good info. and she really knows her stuff.
I know what you mean about the advertising and the products. One thing is, I DO trust her products, they are good quality from my experience. (And I would probably do the same thing if I were in her position.. )
I've got the starter, the minerals and the digestive enzymes. I love my digestive enzymes.
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