posted
I am just wondering how long in general it would take for cysts to convert back to the spiro or L form after going off of ALL medications?
I am asking because I have been off all meds for about 3 weeks now and Im doing fine.
I am just wondering if anyone knows how long it would take for the cyst forms to convert back after there are no meds in the system?
Posts: 574 | From Out there somewhere | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
I'm wondering whether you should contact ILADS or any LLMD with that question, as the Lyme doctors may know. And then let us know! Unless someone here does know...
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
According to the doctor who cured me, after being off of antibiotics 1 week, the cysts have converted back into the spiro form.
I went to this doctor after being on amoxicillin treatment alone for 2 years with a previous lyme doctor. The new doc said that this treatment had succeeded in converting ALL of my lyme disease to the cyst form.
For this reason, when he started treating me, he had me stop my antibiotics for 1 week--to bring the lyme out of cyst form. Then, he started me on amoxi (with probinecid) and flagyl daily. This way, we ambushed the lyme. We hit it with meds that would kill both the cyst form and the spirochete form. It did the trick.
After one month of that, he stopped the amoxi and moved on to treat bartonella with levaquin. He kept me on the flagyl for an additional month.
This was my third lyme doctor.
I completed my lyme treatment over 8 years ago now and I am still symptom-free, enjoying my life.
You are still feeling fine after 3 weeks off of all meds because lyme is a slow grower. It usually takes a few months for it to grow back enough to cause symptoms again. It is believed that it has a 28 day growth cycle, meaning that it only reproduces every 28 days.
Coinfections, on the other hand, reproduce more quickly. Prior to seeing the doctor who cured me, I was on antibiotics just for lyme disease for 2 years. No coinfection treatment. Any time I stopped the lyme meds, I was sick as a dog within 2 weeks. THAT IS THE SIGN of an untreated coinfection. (Wish I would have known it back then.) I wasted 2 years with this doc who never treated me for coinfections. I thought I was getting sick with lyme each time I stopped my meds.
So, based on what you are saying, it appears so far that you don't have any coinfections.
Here are some quotes for you from Burrascano:
"It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism�s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks.. . .
With treatment, these monthly symptom flares are exaggerated and presumably represent recurrent Herxheimer-like reactions as Bb enters its vulnerable growth phase and then are lysed." (page 17)
"CLASSIC LYME (Bb infection)- � Gradual onset of initial (viral-like) symptoms- this often makes it difficult to pinpoint when the infection began." (page 26)
"BABESIA SPECIES- � Rapid onset of initial illness � Symptoms cycle rapidly, with flares every four to six days." (page 26)
So, a very gradual return of symptoms over a number of months is what you can expect if all you have is lyme disease, no coinfections.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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t9im
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25489
posted
Back in 2010 at the Lyme Conference at the University of New Haven I asked one of the research students this question.
He indicated in one instance it took 40 days. This was in the lab versus a mammal host.
Just an indication of why there is persistent infection.
I believe the rhesus monkey study bears this out.
-------------------- Tim Posts: 1111 | From Glastonbury, CT | Registered: Apr 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Someone will likely speak to the cystic form at the upcoming conference. [I asked about web stream. ILADS Response: At this time there is no plan to live stream the San Diego Conference.]
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