posted
After suffering from back pain most of my life, I always attributed it to lyme/inflammation. So I recently decided to see if there was anything else going on, so I went and got X-Rays/MRI of my lower back.
It turns out that I had a stage 3 Spondylolisthesis. After getting a few opinions from Spine Surgeons, I have decided to get the spinal surgery, which they all recommended and its set for this Tuesday.
I asked the surgeon`s if lyme/co-infections could have had any effect on the deteriorating of the disk and they all said no, and that it was caused by an injury I suffered at some point earlier in my life.
Has anyone else on here had this same type of spine surgery? If so, does your back feel better today?
I have been feeling terrible the last couple weeks and also curious if there could be any issues going into surgery feeling like this? I went for pre-testing and they said I was OK for the most part, but my blood work came back with a low red blood cell count, Hemoglobin, & HCT. They told me to eat a steak. I eat organic, grass fed beef almost everyday, so I don`t see that helping me much, lol.
Posts: 85 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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lpkayak
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posted
Bb eats cartilage. My whole spine is a mess. They call it all kinds of things. Oa, facet e tc
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
NJFitness, It sounds like you have a blood parasite like babesia or bartonella. They both need your red blood cells' iron for their own day to day functions. My iron is low due to this type of infection. Also, if you have any kind of lyme caused inflammation in your gut, you won't absrob the nutrients like you need. So, is it an absorption problem or is it due to an infection? Either way, if your iron is way down and your bart or babs is going up, you may want to postpone for a bit.
Posts: 482 | From Oregon | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Have you researched LCD -- lumbar cervical decompression. I just found the old thread I posted back in 2007 when hubby had that done.
The point of the treatment is to stretch out the spine so the bloodflow can be improved and healing can occur. Supposedly it even helps people who still have pain after back surgery.
It really did help hubby. His severe back pain from bulging discs (seen on MRI) never came back.
And yes I agree with Kayak -- the problem may have started with an injury but bb and the other pathogens love to go to injury sites.
If you do the LCD a good chiro will advise that you also take glucosamine and/or chondroitin as well to help with healing. Can't remember any other supplement suggestions. Maybe MSM would help as well.
Here is the thread. I had forgotten all the details.
A back surgeon's speciality is surgery -- sorry but they probably know way less than you do about lyme and company. Have you asked your LLMD about the surgery? They may advise some med adjustments if you do do the surgery.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
If you really are a male and are not vegetarian and have a low RBC then that is a problem -- regardless of what a general MD says.
3 possibilities
1-- you are losing blood -- a simple stool test can check for that.
2-- you are not absorbing iron -- can be caused by low stomach acid -- there is a Heidelberg test for that -- not done too often. The solution is to take betaine HCL (hydrochloride). Hubby took this for years along with digestive enzymes. His Heidelberg test showed low stomach acid.
3 -- either G.I. or bloodborne parasites such as babesia
I would seriously talk to my LLMD before doing any surgery and also try researching the LCD -- it is noninvasive and you could always do the surgery later if it did not work.
But be advised some chiros will not file insurance and want to charge big bucks for this treatment to cover the cost of their machine. The cost of the machine can run anywhere from a couple of thousand dollars up to ten thousand dollars or so for the deluxe model which comes with TV hookups to entertain you doing treatment.
Hubby's chiro had a very inexpensive model and it worked just fine. His chiro worked with some professional athletes so if you can find a chiro who specializes in sports medicine they would probably be more clued in nutritionally.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: If you really are a male and are not vegetarian and have a low RBC then that is a problem -- regardless of what a general MD says.
3 possibilities
1-- you are losing blood -- a simple stool test can check for that.
2-- you are not absorbing iron -- can be caused by low stomach acid -- there is a Heidelberg test for that -- not done too often. The solution is to take betaine HCL (hydrochloride). Hubby took this for years along with digestive enzymes. His Heidelberg test showed low stomach acid.
3 -- either G.I. or bloodborne parasites such as babesia
Yes, I agree. I have iron deficiency anemia due to being a woman. It runs in my family and is not associated with Lyme Disease. I had it before I got sick and I still have it now that I'm well.
I can tell you, you will feel very bad with low hemoglobin. It makes you very tired.
You need to get to the root of the problem. There is a reason for anemia.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I don't know anything about the spondylo....You say your back is worse - i have lumbar herniated discs but according to the surgeons not serious enough for surgery, but still my lower back hurts - are you on any BP meds or cholesterol meds or take Ambien? - even something as simple as red rice yeast for the cholesterol?
I had worsening back pain and noticed it got much worse when the GP prescribed lipitor for the cholesterol - so i stopped and after 4 days of crippling pain, i could stand up straight again - the original pain didn't go away so i started thinking about the other things i was taking for various ailments and started removing all these other things - Ambien was first to go....red rice yeast was next....
i can now say that every once in a while i take an ibuprofen and maybe a tramadol for the residual pain, but the crippling pain is much relieved now that i'm not taking all the other meds...it might be worth the time and effort to play around with the meds you take....i do do a lot of stretching and work with a trainer at the gym who's helping me work on my core....and removing the meds and the exercise have seemed to help ....
Posts: 277 | From NY | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
All I know is that people who have back surgery end up needing more later as the vertebrae above and below the ones surgically repaired will go bad.
Can you tell us more about the surgery? Are they using the "cement" or what?
posted
oh and I have a sister who is a nurse practitioner in Maine and she has Lyme and bartonella , for years she thought she had fibromyalgia until i got sick and she got tested - she worked in a pain practice - she often told me that 80% of her patients were people who had had surgery for back pain....so i would try other options before commiting....
Posts: 277 | From NY | Registered: Jun 2005
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randibear
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posted
I have worked with many people who have cailed it failed back surgery syndrome. Many had 4 or 5 surgeries. I myself have bulging discs throughout my lower back. I fell down the stairs many years ago. I won't let anybody touch my back. Call me a coward but I just am too afraid. I think lyme can damage anything.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
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- Steroid are often administered during &/or after surgery. Be aware. Be VERY aware of that.
Be sure your LLMD is on board with any Rx that may be administered, and to be sure you are "covered" so to speak, regarding lyme & adrenal issues.
Topic: Minor surgery and steriods - complications from steroids that were not supposed to be administered.
posted by desertwind - 19 April, 2013 -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Epinephrine is in many anesthetics (not sure about anesthesia, though). Some discussion on why epinephrine (EPI) can be a rough ride for someone with lyme (especially if they have adrenal issues):
EPI & medical / dental procedures -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- So, this past Saturday, you posted: "set for this Tuesday"
Well, that looks like tomorrow. Good luck with everything. Hope it works out well. Take care. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lpkayak
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" I had worsening back pain and noticed it got much worse when the GP prescribed lipitor for the cholesterol "
re above...i took 6 months lipitor and was in a walker...could not bear weight on one leg. i stopped lipitor(after doing what docs said did not work) and 10 hours later walked
there is residual problem...but i was able to walk well for quite awhile before new issue involving artificial knees
many many drugs cause many seious side effects....so hard for us
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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ukcarry
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posted
I would try other ways first, as quite a few say that surgery did not sort the pain.
It may be worth trying sessions on a PEMF machine if you have a local chiro with one, or you could try a month's rental of the IMRS 2000 to see if that helps.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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lpkayak
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what happened?
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I would try other methods such as previously mentioned PEMF. Anti-parasitics maybe antibiotics and infrared sauna. One of my docs said Lyme likes the back and causes back and disc problems. I think it's also parasites.
Posts: 722 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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poppy
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Well, I hope he didn't do it after all. Very seldom hear of back surgery turning out well.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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I had a three level spinal fusion for this very reason - spondylolithesis. The quick definition is that the vertebrae are misaligned.
You can imagine the pain involved when the vertebrae aren't where they are supposed to be and, therefore, the nerves running up your back get misplaced, pinched, or misaligned also.
The pain is phenomenal. Spondylolithesis is graded one through four. The OP is graded at three so he/she is in the advanced stages.
This is a big, big surgery that should be well thought out before agreeing to it.
Good Luck, TheWino
-------------------- Wrinkles only go where the smiles have been --J. Buffett
All of my replies should not be taken as medical advice as they are my opinions only and I am not a physician. Posts: 55 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2012
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I really appreciate all the concern for me on here. I don`t get that same support from family/friends.
Well, I did get the surgery 19 days ago. It was pretty rough going, but I am so used to pain most of my life that it wasn`t all that bad come to think of it. It`s amazing what we can get used to. I did have a great surgeon, and felt that I needed to find a way to start feeling somewhat better and this was a step in the right direction. I cannot live my next 25 years the way I lived my last 25 years. Its just no quality of life, and not sure I could mentally handle the challenge.
As soon as I got out of surgery and the next continued days, I had noticed that my morphine drip had been leaking and blood eventually squirted out. They moved the IV line to my right hand. And after giving me the smallest dosage of morphine, I told them to take me off of it. What a horrible feeling. It turns out that I was never taking in any of the morphine or any painkillers from the time I got out of surgery till the time I left the hospital. The mind is a powerful thing.
I have always downplayed and minimized my pain my whole life. This did re-confirm to me that I have been living in a good deal of pain most of my life and that it is real. Just your mind can overcome a lot if trained properly.
I was in the hospital for 4 days. They tried to rush me out earlier, but my blood pressure kept dropping and I would get dizzy and faint when I tried to get up to walk. My red blood cell count/hemoglobin was also low, and even before I went in. This surprised me, because I can assure you that my diet is about as good and disciplined as it gets. Can lyme or any co-infections be responsible for this low red blood cell/Hemoglobin count? I never had this before.
When I was home for the first week I was running a fever. They said to call the Dr if it went past 100.5. It was many times at 101.5, but I did not panic or call anyone for a few days.
The worse part was that I was constantly getting the chills no matter how warm the room was, then I would wake up every hour drenched in sweat. The nurse practitioner could not give me an explanation for this. I assumed it was all lyme related all along. Nothing but a waste of time talking to her or the surgeon about lyme.
I was slowly feeling a little better, but the last few days have been really rough on me. I think it was a lyme/bartonella type flare up out of nowhere. Its been so nice out, but I have been subjected to staying inside, as the sun has just been destroying me the last few days.
I get my 27 staples out tomorrow. I`ll let you guys know how everything goes.
BTW, is it even worth seeing a hematologist for my low red blood cell count/ low Hemoglogin/HCT?
Thanks again for the concern!
Posts: 85 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
So glad you are "OK".. I do hope you continue to feel better!!!
Sounds like you could have babesia... hence the low RBC and the sweats/chills. Very classic. Surgery could make anything you have come out in the sunlight.
Make an appointment with your LLMD to discuss further treatment.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lpkayak
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posted
so good to hear from you.
i have had same experience with living with lyme pain and being dismissed...then all kinds of meds offered after surg....maddening-but validating
also-have finally had lyme act up after surg...i never noticed it in the past except with bunion b4 i was treating lyme
i cant be sure it was surg or radiation this time
GOOD LUCK!!!!a lot of us have been thinking about you
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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sixgoofykids
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Low hemoglobin can make you feel bad so I'd see someone. I have iron deficiency anemia and have never been to a hematologist, so I don't know if that specialist is necessary (maybe it is?), but I'd see someone, you'll feel better when hemoglobin is in range.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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I'm so glad you are doing well. As far as your hemoglobin and hematocrit levels, ask the surgeon what your EBL (estimated blod loss) was during surgery.
If it was high, bingo. If there was no blood loss, you could/should speak with your GP about this. Perhaps, he/she will steer you on the right direction.
I'm really glad you are feeling better. Congratulations!!!!
Enjoy the clamshell brace!!! Thewino
-------------------- Wrinkles only go where the smiles have been --J. Buffett
All of my replies should not be taken as medical advice as they are my opinions only and I am not a physician. Posts: 55 | From Florida | Registered: Oct 2012
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randibear
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Whoa....glad to see you're ok
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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I actually just got back from getting my staples removed, and I`m having a real good day today as well. Eating bad food last night actually made me feel better both physically/mentally and I had the best sleep in weeks. Go figure.
Thewino: No clamshell brace for me thank god!
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