desertwind
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posted
I know the pros and cons of root canals but went ahead with one anyway.
I have been doing really well and been off abx.s for close to 4 months /holding steady.
I do have a long history of dental problems but never seems to come from an actual infection.
Anyway, about a month ago I went through a long tooth prep for 2 new crowns and things seem to have been backslding ever since.
I ended up needing or rather getting a root canal today on one of my molars and the endo found no infection but all my roots were calcified. Could lyme do this? Ouch..in pain right now.
Ever since I started this new phase of dental work I have had a flare in neuro symptoms in my face, head, ear, scalp along with more TMJ/face pain. Wearing my bite gaurd at night to try to help my jaw blah, blah, blah, but it feels like something has invaded my face. Probably ketes.
Guess lyme infection is just never ending and I should stop looking for the finish line - but seriously I had less of a backslide after undergoing major surgery 5 months ago. All of my lyme symptoms have always been neuro and from the neck up so I suppose this flare after dental work should not surprise me.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone who was in early remission had a relapse after dental work. Thanks DW.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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WPinVA
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I don't have an answer but my dentist did tell me that the body's immune system diverts resources to the teeth when the teeth are affected - our body's way of making sure we stay alive since we need our teeth to eat.
We had a long conversation about it b/c my Lyme originally kicked in right after a root canal. So it would make sense that a root canal now for you could cause a flare.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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desertwind
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Thanks for your response. Spoke w/ my llmd and he agrees. Back on abx.s again - Ceftin and Biaxin. Let the games begin.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I'm going through a dental mystery too involving a root canal tooth and stumping three dental depts. That kind of thing always makes me wonder if Lyme's involved.
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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dbpei
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posted
All of my lingering symptoms have been from my neck up also. And I have lost hearing in one ear and have all kinds of odd sensations in my face, skull and ears.
I am now seeing a dentist (lyme literate) who is giving me ozone treatment. I have only had 2 sessions, so the jury is out on whether this is going to make a difference. But the interesting thing is that all of the injections that the dentist has give me so far have been in the exact spots where I have my strange symptoms.
I also have a retention cyst at the base of my left sinus and I think this is playing a part. I had a tooth extracted this past June that had been root canaled 4 months after I lost my hearing. The dentist I am going to has the Cavitat x-ray machine and it does show that my other root canalled tooth is infected, but we are waiting to see if the ozone treatment helps to get rid of the infection.
I had a lot of dental problems during the 3 or 4 years before I lost my hearing and all of my lyme symptoms came out. I wonder now, whether the spirochetes started hiding out in these damaged places and took over. Or perhaps, lyme caused all of these dental issues.
I know I was bitten in 2006 followed by summer flu with positive Elisa and negative WB. Never treated. The only symptoms I had were migrating joint pain and some sleep issues for 3 or 4 years - along with all the dental stuff.
My dentist says the ozone will zap whatever the culprit is in my jaw and head - whether it is bacteria, virus, fingi or parasites. I am all for that!
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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desertwind
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posted
Thanks guys!
Yes, I did call that LLDentist and will be seeing him next month...cant wait. Thanks again for your info on him. I suspect I have a lot of things going on in my teeth that does not show on standard x-ray. Would love to hear how the treatments work for you so please post your updates! I feel like this is where my bugs have really nestled in considering my reaction.
Things started getting a little flary after the crown preps and new crowns. At first though it was "just" my tmj flaring but the r.c. just put me over the edge.
But I could not put this current root canal on hold. My endo is very good but not Lyme literate.
All of my symptoms from the neck up are back now - you guys know what that is like. Glad the temp sensitivity is gone but geez woke up this morning with a smashing headache, numb/ringing ears, burning scalp, facial and eye twitching ect. Crazy that these ketes can drill into almost any part of our body. Before getting the r.c. I was feeling almost great - off meds and back to life.
I have had a lot of dental work done with every dentist scratching their head saying , "hum....don't know why your teeth hurt".
So Dr. H. did get back to me and confirmed that it is probably a flare from the dental work and a reaction to the chemicals that were used. On Cedax and Biaxin along with more detox.
Guess this is why it is called Chronic. DW
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Brussels
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posted
Everyone with chronic lyme will have sooner or later problems with teeth. What is causing what, I don't know, but I've been here long enough to see that happening.
It's like candida, no one escapes, it's a matter of time.
Dr. K usually says that a healthy person has to have healthy mouth, gums, teeth, and a healthy gut.
If either one or another is not healthy, the whole person cannot return to a healthy state.
The ozone option is a cheap option here (in Switzerland). It costs only the price of the practioner fees. I would try it, as it is so fast, so little invasive...
I kept relapsing on and on for years (I could only stay lyme free for about 4 months). I decided then to treat cavitations, then my lyme doct gave me some ozone injections in other teeth too.
I can't say immediately after, I got better, but I think I do not regret all these interventions. First the pains and funny feelings in my mouth, jaw, teeth are gone. I think it is a big stress that was relieved.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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map1131
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posted
I've been trying to talk myself into removing my one and only root canal back molar for 2 yrs.
Afraid of the process, stirring stuff up and not wanting to make a mistake.
But my root canaled tooth has been driving me crazy for 2 weeks now. Inflammation, bleeding around the gum of the molar, sore and nothing seems to be settling it down.
The ear on that side is also not happy and I think it's screaming for help. I keep hearing this odd crinkling noise in that ear and deep itch feeling.
Now if I use peppermint essential oil around the ear, cheek and neck gland for a couple days, it stops the ear. I'm also using tea tree on toothbrush 2 times a day around the tooth, but it's not helping inflamed teeth issues like normal.
Thanks Brussels, your post makes it seem so simple.
dbp, I too was under a perio care for some issues prior to onset of lyme & co. In fact 4 days before the flu-like illness from he!! started I had another molar on the other side of mouth removed.
I'd spent hundreds and hundreds of money on saving a tooth and then I insisted they remove it. Throbbed and pulsed pain for months.
Still think that day was part of the big picture of my collapse. Dentist did not give me abx and I certainly didn't know the bacteria dangers.
Might be why I'm so unsettled on what to do.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Judie
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posted
I did allergy patch testing for dental materials and metals.
It turns out I was allergic to the night guard I had been wearing (some contain BPA by the way).
I'm horribly allergic to several common dental materials. Once I got those answers, I've been removing materials that don't work for me.
Epoxy resin and methacrylates (in night guards) are used in the supposedly safer materials, but those are some that I'm allergic to.
Once I solved that mystery and saw a facial pain expert who gave me exercises to help the TMJ, the problems started to clear up.
Good luck!
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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desertwind
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posted
Lordy...Do you know how many TMJ "experts and Neuromuscular Dentists I have been to for my TMJ/D.
Very very intereting about being allergic to the bitegaurd material because I SWORE I was and all I got from my dentist was blah, blah, blah.
I would get wierd body pain and nightsweats when I wear any bite gaurd so I stopped. They never helped my jaw anyway.. Thousands of $$$$$$ down the drain. I swear I tried every conventional treatment over the years for jaw.
I think part of my relapse was to do with the dental materials - always happens. Now every tooth nerve is flared - can't eat. Just want to scream.
I am seeing a LLDMD / Biological Dentist next month.
How many root canals do you all have? I do not want to go and get all my r.c's pulled. I have like 5 and never had an infection in any of the teeth. All nerve inflammation and my oral hygiene is very very good.
Funny thing is my crown fell off today (only has temp. cement on) and the tooth felt so much better without the crown on. I really hate this stuff.....
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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dbpei
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I do believe there is a dental link to not getting well for many of us - especially those with symptoms from the neck up that we can't seem to shake.
What a discovery that you were allergic to your nightguard!! I did Clifford testing for dental materials and was found to be sensitive to many kinds of metals, including silver, nickel, aluminum and mercury (no surprise). I thought I might be allergic to the material in my titanium dental implant. But the testing showed I was okay with titanium.
map, I also get that ear crackling. And I feel like there is a connection between my ear and sinus. I have been tasting a salty, metallic taste on the left side of my mouth where my dental implant is and where I had an extraction in June.
The Cavitat x-ray shows dental infection in different areas and also a cyst at the base of my sinus right above that implant. I guess time will tell and hopefully the ozone treatment will provide some relief and help me get better.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I just got a bite guard, even though I don't think I really need it. I thought I was going nuts because it was making the tip of my tongue numb. However, after reading these posts, I'm beginning to think I'm allergic to the material it's made from. The dentist I saw was in NM and when I asked him what the bite guard was going to be made from he said acrylic. I wasted big bucks on that thing. I see my LLMD tomorrow and will get the appropriate testing done to see which dental materials will work well for my body. Thanks Judie for letting me know about the patch test. Like many of you, many of my most terrible problems are from the neck up, especially my tongue and swallowing problems. My tongue is like a big sponge and absorbs everything food and non food related. When I was having the silcone impressions taken a few weeks ago, I got so sick and could taste the silicone for a week. The silicone was blue and my tongue was blue for days afterwards. I'm interested in the Cavitat x-rays. I don't think the biological dentist I'm now seeing in CO uses them. Could you give me a quick explanation, dbpei? Desert Wind, I'm sorry to hear that your symptoms have flared, especially because you were finally feeling well. It's just so sad and terrible...unreal and unfair. C.P.
Posts: 106 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2012
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dbpei
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posted
CP, the biological dentist I am seeing has the I-CAT, I think.
He gave me a copy of the CD. I have not taken the time to look at it since I returned home. It was pretty amazing to look at it.
I think they are very expensive and not many dentists have these. But perhaps you can ask your biological dentist. He may know of someone who has this. You can also contact DAMS
and they will be able to guide you.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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desertwind
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posted
dbpei; I spoke with the dentist you are seeing and I was told they do the I-CAT. I cannot wait to get in there. I think thet said $350.00 for the scan. That is one LLMD appointment + supp.'s.
Gosh, I am not happy that so many you you guys are suffering too but it helps to know there are others and I am not c-r-a-z-y...
I have one titanium implant and that actually is one of the only "teeth" that feels normal. I am good with titanium. I also have a titanium plate in the back of my head - a whole other story.
Dead teeth in my mouth - uggg...sometimes it all feels so toxic. I have my doubts that more abx.s are going to get rid of the lyme related tooth issues but hoping that it help lessen the neuro pain in my face again.
This all started back up again because I wanted to replace two old chipping metal exposed crowns - next thing ya know here goes another root canal and flare.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Judie
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"Funny thing is my crown fell off today (only has temp. cement on) and the tooth felt so much better without the crown on. I really hate this stuff....."
Gosh, that's TOTALLY the experience I had when the dentist first took the allergic material out. My tooth was packed with mud while the cast was being made.
I can tolerate Mizzy Fleck's Cement and Zirconium.
Dormer and Allergeaze makes the patches for patch testing. A good allergist or dermatologist can do the tests.
Some biological dentist push for doing The Clifford test (it tests products for bio-compatibility).
This didn't seem very helpful to me since products are always changing ingredients and new stuff is always coming.
I'd rather know WHAT ingredients I'm allergic to and then pick what will work for me.
What I did was get a list from my dentist of the products they could use.
I then called the manufacturer and got the ingredients (sometimes the doc needs to sign a release).
I then made a list of what I needed to dermatologist to test for.
I was allergic to things I never knew before like silver!
As for the facial pain specialist, I saw someone who worked in a pain management clinic (not a typical dentist).
It was the biological dentist who put epoxy resin in my mouth and gave me the night guard that I was allergic too.
"How many root canals do you all have? "
Fortunately, I was able to prevent that from happening after 3 dentists said I needed one, (including the 2nd biological dentist I saw who was so stumped that he finally referred me to someone who did root canals)!
I was in soooooo much pain from a filling.
I just grinned and bared it until I got the testing done.
I then found an older dentist (not a biological dentist) who had been around enough to see people have allergic reactions to when nickel was used in dental materials.
She said that material that I'm allergic to is slowly dripping down and irritating the tooth pulp and nerves.
I've only been able to afford to get one tooth fixed so far and it took 6 months for the nerves to calm down, this is after 6 years of agony trying to figure this out (this is the tooth that the docs said I needed a root canal for and I didn't, I just needed different material).
I'm actually considering a consult with a biomimetic dentist just to see what he has to offer since there's one that's close to me.
I have the feeling I'm going to need a ride back to the old-timer that I saw though because it took sooooo long to find someone who understood what was going on.
The old-timer was also the one who connected me with the facial pain specialist.
All this hell started when I decided to replace my amalgams with supposedly safer material 6 years ago.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
A couple of things: You stated in a post: "I ended up needing or rather getting a root canal today on one of my molars and the endo found no infection but all my roots were calcified. Could lyme do this?"
Answer is: Anyone, lymie or 'normal' person, can have roots that calcify. It's a common thing with everyone. So, not just lymie's can/do have canals that end up this way.
You stated that your tooth felt better when the temp crown came off. This is really important for your dentist to know. That means your temp crown was made too high. Let whomever know this fact when you see someone again.
It could be the cement but usually the crown is not fitting correctly in between the margins and other teeth.
I have many root canaled teeth, nothing has ever bothered me.
I do have jaw issues, from bad orthodontics as a child. And remember, our jaw joint is a JOINT. Any time your mouth is open for any length of time, you're putting a bulls eye on yourself for your jaw to hurt royally. It will hurt into your ears and down your neck and back. Jaw problems will give you headaches like no other. It can make it feel like you have ear infection. It will make you feel like your glands on the sides of your neck are hugely inflamed. Believe me, I've been through this for years, and then I worked in dentistry for over 24 yrs. I had the disk come off my condyle for 7 days once and couldn't close my teeth and mouth together. Jaw problems are no fun. And, then on top of it, the buggers like joints too.
Some hints for your jaw are:
Lips together, teeth apart. This 'drops' your jaw into a more relaxed position. There is a disk that is shaped like a boomerang that sits on the condyle in the joint. It can become lodged 'off' center after a longer procedure with your mouth open.
Treat your jaw like a sprained ankle. Eat soft foods, stay away from the sticky, chewy, steak tough foods.
Sleep on your back. When you sleep on your side, you are torqueing your jaw to one side or the other.
Advil really does bring down the inflammation from having your mouth open during a procedure.
And getting back to dental materials. Find out what product your dentist used on you. Name of product and manufacturer. Then go to their website and find the MSDS on it. Every manufacturer should have them on their site these days.
And lastly.... sorry, but most people get a bit 'stressed' out when they go to the dentist. When we get stressed out, we flare more too.... so, try and stay relaxed!
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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dbpei
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posted
Judie, I just have one root canalled tooth remaining in my mouth and the ICAT x-ray showed that it is infected.
But the ozone treatment may help that infection so that I won't need to have the tooth extracted according to my dentist. But if not, I will get it pulled by an oral surgeon eventually.
Even my biological dentist recommended an oral surgeon to do this extraction, as he said root canalled teeth are complicated to extract. But once I do get it extracted, he would do the ozone treatment and also asked for the tooth so he could make a homeopathic remedy to help me fight the infection. I hope I won't need to do this.
The Clifford Test was $275 and covered hundreds of materials that are commonly used in dentistry. Once done, I received 'a book' with every possible item ever used by a dentist with information on whether I am sensitive to it. It was done by a blood draw.
So I take it with me whenever I go to a new dentist so they can see what NOT to use. The book also has suggestions for what is safe to use for me.
hadlyme, thanks for the common sense advice for us when we are having dental work done. Good, logical info!
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
The "Common sense advice" that I shared is what one would have to pay money for if they went to their dentist for TMD issues.
Please everyone, beware of any bio dentist or reg. dentist that charges you an arm, leg and part of your body for tests and therapy's. There are a lot of 'gimmics' out there. I have had office staff tell me how their 'dentist' has them 'sell' ideas that are fluffy wording and more expensive, but really regular procedures. Believe me or not.... been there done that for way too many years in the dental world.
Good and bad of any kind of dr.s. Some of them love to prey on sicker people..... and rip them off.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Ellen101
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posted
Great info hadlyme. I just started using a Physical Therapist that utilizes an integrative approach. Very different approach than any other PT I have had before. While working on my upper body she detected issues with my jaw and asked if I ever had surgery or an injury to it.
I had a difficult extraction done awhile back by an incompetent dentist. I was in the chair with my mouth open for 2 hrs. He finally had to put something in my mouth to help it stay open as I could no longer do it.
That trauma to my jaw affected me more than I realized. Some of the symptoms I currently have I'm finding out are not due to lyme but related to my jaw.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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Judie
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"The Clifford Test was $275 and covered hundreds of materials that are commonly used in dentistry."
The patch testing was covered by insurance for me, so it actually didn't cost me much to do it. I didn't want to do the Clifford Test and then have to keep repeating it like others have had to do.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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dbpei
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posted
Judie, who ordered the patch test for you? Was it your LLMD? Just checking for future reference.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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map1131
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posted
I too had a silver old old molar crown fall off. Stupid me tried to snap it back on, since this was Friday and wait till Monday to see dentist.
I swallowed the crown in my sleep. I believe it was my bodies way of telling me, get this darn thing out of your mouth.
There it's gone and you can't put it back on. I too felt the sensation of aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh relief.
The toxic metals my dentist from 30 yrs ago had packed onto that tooth and, I mean layer upon layer of mercury/silver and then applied a silver crown was and OMG moment for me.
Dentistry in the 70s. Deadly.
My new dentist and staff laughed at me about swallowing this huge crown. I just prayed my body expelled it quickly thru the digestive system.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Due to neuro lyme, I was unable to go to a dentist for a number of years. One of the infections got into my teeth and weakened them. It felt like they were inflamed and some of them chipped. As a consequence, I had a lot of work to be done, including about 8 teeth with visible decay.
The first dentist I went to wanted to do many crowns and a lot of work. When you get a crown, they grind down about 70% of your tooth which is obviously not good for the tooth.
This dentist instructed me on how to get rid of the decay in my teeth. I brush my teeth in the morning with hydrogen peroxide and then with my toothpaste. In the evening I brush with hydrogen peroxide and then with baking soda to change the pH in my mouth. Actually, you can brush first with either toothpaste or hydrogen peroxide. The order isn't important. I also floss once a day. Using this method, the decay in my teeth is about 2/3s reversed since August. Most of it is in the front and can be easily seen.
Further, this dentist drills only the old fillings and decay out of my teeth leaving as much tooth as possible. I have had two badly chipped teeth done by him with no crowns needed, as opposed to the other dentist who wanted to crown them both. Shots are optional and I have had teeth drilled on with no shots but I got shots for the badly chipped teeth.
Most of dentistry is still in the dark ages. I completely recommend biomimetic dentistry.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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Brussels
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posted
Dr. K. followers never recommend titanium. When energetically tested, this metal never comes good, for no one, they say.
I tested very bad for it. As said above, most materials used in dentistry test awfully bad. It is not only allergy, you can call that intolerance too.
Now I have a partial, made of the purest gold possible (energetically tested). But many people do not test good for gold either. That is why my lyme doc keeps testing every single material in the alloy, for each patient.
Anyway, the advantages with partials is that you can just throw it off, when it bothers you, and change to another material (the only problem is cost, but you don't feel like having a permanent problem rooted inside your mouth, I mean).
Another advantage is that you can clean it very well, under, in the part that it touches your teeth. And take a break of it, so that you do not have a constant ANTENNA in your mouth, getting all EMRs (in the night, for example).
Before, I had two crowns, on my old root canaled teeth. Both got BAD cavitations under, missed by all dentists. They missed both, and they were badly infected. The dentist could only see the bad infections when both teeth were pulled off. Very bad, but X rays showed nothing!!!
I hate crowns, they infiltrate under, like the bridges. There is no good crown, in my opinion. With the years, they will become trouble.
Bridges are bad as you lose the good tooth on which the bridge is based on, after, due to infiltration of foods under...
I wish we ate only healthy, so that we wouldn't have bacterial plaque like those guys living in the forest, eating only their unprocessed foods. They need no tooth brush, their teeth are still in good shape, no plaque!!
I visited a prehistoric museum last week. I was amazed to see these 30 year old skulls with perfect teeth. All teeth intact.
Not only one skull, but quite many. These guys knew nothing about hygiene in the mouth, no dentists, and still, their teeth were perfect at about 30-35.
Weston Price was right.
It made me think about all these bacteria that come in my teeth, daily. All the plaque (plaque is BIOFILM in the teeth) is caused by our food.
I can't avoid thinking about all the bacteria INSIDE me, I mean, pathogenic bacteria. Wouldn't there be a connection between food and lyme?
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
If you really want to keep the bacterial count down in your mouth MMS mouth washes is the answer. My friend had his dentist test bacterial levels after starting mms mouthwashes over a period of several weeks. After a few weeks the meter barely moved and he became pain free in his mouth
posted
Before my latent Lyme really kicked in, I had a problem with one of my crowns. I became allergic to the material used. My dentist replaced it and the gum inflammation/reaction went away.
I will say this though, I don't believe crowns are a good thing. I have a crowned tooth in each quadrant and since Lyme all four, and only these teeth, have bothered me. One is on a root canal tooth.
I don't know what the answer is.
Posts: 478 | From Third Coast | Registered: Feb 2011
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CherylSue
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Good info. My root canal bothers me from time to time since the day I got it.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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desertwind
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Yeah...every tooth that has ever been r.c.'ed bothers me. CT and X-rays look "normal" - go figure but I am not going to get 4 teeth pulled. I never had infections in these teeth to begin with - just pain. I am a clencher so hoping my new night guard will help. TMJ is always an issue for me too.
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