posted
Had an adrenal saliva test recently and was expecting to have low cortisol. Was prepared to take ashwaghandha or whatever.
Instead, it was abnormally HIGH cortisol. All day, but especially at night. I Googled and it said possible adrenal tumor. My doc didn't seem to think it was high eniugh for that or for Cushing's syndrome. Could it be because of depression and anxiety? I have lots of those thanks to this disease!
Anyone have experience with high cortisol? Also, if you know any good links about adrenals, please share. I'm familiar with thyroid disease, and I've read about adrenal fatigue but high cortisol is new for me.
Thanks!
-------------------- Female. Misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia for six years. Started treating Lyme in 2014. IgG positive for mycoplasma and clinically diagnosed with bartonella. Also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Posts: 32 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
Bunch of supplements ... I think the main one is Rosavin, which is rhodiola. It always takes me a few days after my appointments to get the new stuff straight. Pretty sure that was the main one aimed at cortisol.
He seemed really surprised, like he definitely expected the cortisol to be too low and not too high.
Just started reading and high cortisol causes problems getting rid of infections (oh, great) as well as cognitive issues (like I need more of those). My brain fog is THE WORST.
-------------------- Female. Misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia for six years. Started treating Lyme in 2014. IgG positive for mycoplasma and clinically diagnosed with bartonella. Also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Posts: 32 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2014
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Does not sound like this is a lyme literate doctor to be surprised by high cortisol at night. That's a classic symptom actually, a total flipping and it it's due to the neuro-toxicity of lyme, itself -- for a start.
And also the damage to the adrenal system from our trying to muddle through and pushing ourselves beyond what such a body can do under such circumstances.
It's not that the high cortisol is the CAUSE of trouble getting rid of infections but CAUSED BY lyme to begin with (or other chronic stealth infections) in the way the HPA axis is affected BY the toxicity that over excites and flusters our adrenal/brain HPA "control panel" so to speak.
Mentioned above as one contributing factor, the toxicity of lyme. So liver support is vital as is avoiding substances that further excite our nerve fibers / adrenals.
See post: Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine (3 excitatory amino acids that can be wrong for us when added as supplements, beyond a normal dietary level)
Seaweed has its own natural MSG and can be very excitatory -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323
posted
Ashwagandha and Holy Basil are adaptogens. From my undertanding, they stabilize adrenals/cortisol if too high or too low (I've had 2 doctors tell me that).
I don't know if rhodiola is an adaptogen. Doc didn't think it was the right herb for me for some reason.
Rhodiola can cause anxiety in some folks. Seems to be common when the dose is too high for a person:
While the anti-fatigue or stimulant effects of rhodiola rosea may be partly explained by its reported ability to promote clear thinking and improve memory, they may also be due to energizing components that in anxiety sufferers may also promote anxiety. The effects of rhodiola that leads some to suspect a risk of negative interactions with anxiety are as follows:
Stimulating Beta Waves – In some people, high doses of rhodiola rosea causes higher levels of beta waves in the brain. Unlike alpha waves, which are promoted by anti-anxiety supplements such as L-theanine and occur in the brain when the body is in a state of waking relaxation, beta waves signal normal waking consciousness, while multiple beta waves or waves with varying frequencies signal anxiety. Therefore, taking too much rhodiola rosea runs the risk of causing anxiety rather than treating it.
Metabolic Stimulant – Rhodiola contains compounds known as “rosavin” including rosarin, rosin and salidroside. These compounds help the body to process fatty acids, promoting weight loss. However, this metabolic stimulation also gives the body an energy boost which in some people helps to improve mood, but in those already stimulated by anxiety may run the risk of further stimulation and resultant anxiety attacks. However, this type of stimulation may be somewhat offset by the simultaneous stimulation of serotonin in the brain."
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Judie
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posted
High cortisol at night is VERY common when your body has been under stress for many years (like when you have a chronic infection).
Phosphatidylserine helps lower it so you can sleep.
I bet you have insomnia.
It's also called reverse cycling when cortisol does this.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Judie- when is the best time to take phosphditylserine?
At bedtime OK?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I'm glad to see Judie posted that about Rhodiola (I was just too tired to delve into that). Rhodiola is most certainly not the one I would start with as her posts explain. It was sure too much like rocket fuel for me.
You want to particularly avoid anything that promises a "boost" or any kind of boost reaction. That can clobber you, big time.
Judie mentions two excellent adrenal support herbs: Ashwagandha and Holy Basil
Cordyceps is another very good one for starters. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Also, when you read articles / suggestions about what to do for adrenal exhaustion in general . . . always - always - then wait until you can consider how that will work for someone with lyme. The action often requires a few changes.
That is why a LLMD or LL ND is best to guide the specifics not just regarding the unique nature of lyme / TBD but also for YOUR body.
The adrenals cannot be fully addressed or resolved unless lyme / TBD are being assertively addressed. It's the infection connection as the core of it.
Yet, lyme / TBD will have a very hard time getting under control if adrenal issues are not specifically addressed with gentle, consistent & comprehensive support.
Also remember that we can do a lot with our habits & self-care routine to help adrenals, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Greta - Yes, I take it before bedtime. It's part of my bedtime cocktail of supplements. Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Idaho Balsam Fir essential oil apparently can reduce excess cortisol.
I put some Idaho Balsam Fir oil on my DH (rubbed over the adrenals on his back) when he accidentally took too much Hydrocortisone, and he said it really helped to calm him down and remove the steroid side-effects he gets when he takes too much hydrocortisone.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
Along with all the good info above, Buhner's book on Mycoplasma and Bartonella states that Eleuthero normalizes adrenal activity and changes high cortisol to DHEA, which reduces stress.
posted
Thanks for the links and explanations, everyone! :-)
Keebler, yes, I do see an LLMD, and am on orals. To clarify, he was surprised by the fact that the cortisol was high all the time, not just at night.
I have my doubts about him, but I'm much better than I was when I started treating, about 10 months ago.
Judie, yes, I have horrific insomnia! :-( The phosphtidylserine sounds interesting.
My chart says to take the Rosavin at breakfast. This is all very interesting because I had thought that ashwaghandha and cordyceps were for low cortisol, not high.
I'm familiar with thyroid stuff but just learning about adrenals.
-------------------- Female. Misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia for six years. Started treating Lyme in 2014. IgG positive for mycoplasma and clinically diagnosed with bartonella. Also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Posts: 32 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
Thanks for the links and explanations, everyone! :-)
Keebler, yes, I do see an LLMD, and am on orals. To clarify, he was surprised by the fact that the cortisol was high all the time, not just at night.
I have my doubts about him, but I'm much better than I was when I started treating, about 10 months ago.
Judie, yes, I have horrific insomnia! :-( The phosphtidylserine sounds interesting.
My chart says to take the Rosavin at breakfast. This is all very interesting because I had thought that ashwaghandha and cordyceps were for low cortisol, not high.
I'm familiar with thyroid stuff but just learning about adrenals.
-------------------- Female. Misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia for six years. Started treating Lyme in 2014. IgG positive for mycoplasma and clinically diagnosed with bartonella. Also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Posts: 32 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2014
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Female. Misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia for six years. Started treating Lyme in 2014. IgG positive for mycoplasma and clinically diagnosed with bartonella. Also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Posts: 32 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2014
| IP: Logged |
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