posted
Lately I've been getting a pain in my toe. It's pretty severe and instant. Not electrical (I get that too). What is this? It's scaring me as I cannot take how painful it is. The pain makes me jolt. Anything I can do?
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
It sounds like what happened to me. If so, I know what you're going through. I had a severe pain in my big toe several months ago. It turned out to be Gout. I had to buy 100% pure Black Cherry Juice and drink 1 oz every 2 hours till the pain was gone. After that, I drank 1 oz. 4 times a day for four days to make sure it was gone. 100% pure Black Cherry juice is available in concentrate form from
health food stores or the bottled juice - either Lakewood or Knudsons - from grocery stores that have a health food section. Giant Grocery, Harris Teeter Grocery and Amazon are sources. Caution. Don't overdo it - too much is a laxative.
If the juice doesn't work, it's not Gout.
Posts: 653 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
You don't think it's a nerve thing? Even if so, is it due to something w/the lyme treatment? I cant stand it. It's in my 3rd toe.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
Third toe - I would guess it's probably not gout then - gout affects the big toe. I don't know if it affects other toes.
Posts: 653 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
Its not swollen or red. just a sharp pain will happen. A friend of mine said maybe neuropathy. I've had shocks and shocky pain before, this is a bit less shocky. Another that has lyme says it could be herx, the treatment, the lyme or parasites.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
I agree. It sounds like Morton's Neuroma. Lyme gives us many ailments, some of which have to be treated by traditional methods. Read the above link. If you agree that it could be that, I would go to a specialist. There's a shot they can give you that will take the pain away and, most important of all, prevent a hammer toe.
I turned down the shot. A woman that I worked with had the same problem and took the shot. I have a hammer toe and she doesn't.
Posts: 653 | From Northern Virginia | Registered: Oct 2014
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posted
I tend to think that's not it either. It hurts when I feel the zing of pain, but not when touching it. I saw my MD and she looked at my foot and thinks it's a nerve thing. She wants me to do a nerve conduction study.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
I have had this kind of pain both during intensive Lyme treatment and currently. I have a Small Fibre Neuropathy, have had both the nerve conduction study and the nerve biopsy 'punch' test.
It helped deduct the Neuropathy but didn't really inform much else, like what to do. The options the Neurologist gave me was Cymbalta or Gabapentin (sp); both of these meds, as i understand it, are brain meds that 'alter' the message. I chose not to do either.
Oddly, i had previously been diagnosed with a Morton's Neuroma (before Lyme diagnosis). The fix for that is removal of the nerve. I did this and really wish i hadn't. It left me with a numb patch and really did nothing for the toe pain. Proceed with caution on that one.
So, with all that, what i've found is it's part of the Lyme mess. It ebbs and flows, comes and goes, for no reason that i can tell other than with general 'wellness' (now that i'm much more well, i have it much less).
I found best thing is ICE whenever you can. If nothing else it is distracting which is of course good. In the meantime it will likely get better as you do.
My LLMD felt its likely part of the Bartonella (as the Neuropathy is as well).
Keebler
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posted
- Footwear that is supportive and sturdy is mentioned above. If you have worn the same shoes for a while, I'd put then away and wear others. When breaking in new -- or not lately worn - shoes, do so only for a short time at first, not all day long.
Footwear is a comprehensive topic all by itself but I'll just leave it at this after stressing the absolute importance of NO FLIP FLOPS (sorry, but that is really vital).
Backing up, MAGNESIUM deficiency might cause the suddenness of this, could be a spasm.
And, in case you are offered a steroid shot in the foot: just say NO.
If told, "oh, the steroid medicine will stay in that injection site and not be absorbed by the body" No, it will not stay. It will coarse through the body. And that can be very bad for a very long time for someone with lyme.
posted
The study she wants me to do is the NCV, not the needle one. I've had both done on my arms in the past and cried most of the time.
I do massage it now, always after it happens. I don't know if it helps. I keep a heating pad on low on it at night.
I do have a podiatrist and I'll make an appt w/him.
I mean, it feels like it's a nerve. It doesn't feel 'electrical' (which Ive had those too) but comes on suddenly, inside. Its not a pain on the outside I can touch. Its inside. Not on a joint or muscle (that I can figure).
My podiatrist rec' arnicare and aspercreame for my left foot issue. I cannot find the arnicare now. Arg!
I have 2 types of supports...one from my ND from a machine that measures your feet as you stand on it, and give you personalized inserts. The other from my podiatrist, which are general, hard ones. I'm always wearing one or the other, usually the customs. I initially got them b/c my left foot has an extra bone and some nerve pressure inside. so its always pulsating.
The mag she wants me on just arrived today actually, Magnesium Threonate, 300 mg.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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Keebler
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posted
- You might massage it before it happens. Like a few times a day, preemptively. That might prevent spasms or otherwise "iron out" the nerve fibers so they don't get all in a twist, so to speak. Probably best not to dig deep.
That's a very good kind of magnesium for nerve fibers and the brain, too.
They will have a selection of arnica creams. Read ingredients so you know if it's more a lotion or gel.
Also ARNICA HOMEOPATHIC and Saint Johns wort homeopathic to take at the time it happens (that has a different name, hypericum, I think). You can read up on those.
Saint Johns wort homeopathic is for nerve fiber soothing. Arnica for sudden "hits", bumps, bruises, tumbles, etc.
Silica homeopathic might be of help, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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ukcarry
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posted
I agree that it sounds like either gout or Morton's neuroma. I have had a MN that I feel in a toe on my left foot for over 12 years and now also have a less troubling one in the other foot. Initially, my podiatrist made me some insoles to balance my feet and also some pink toe supports to cushion the problem areas.
The sharp pain in the left foot, when triggered, eventually grew to be so appalling that I was petrified to put my foot down and things like going to the bathroom at night, not to mention walking in general became very difficult. I have become very flat-footed which doesn't help.
Last summer I had a shot guided by ultrasound and that helped a lot for a few weeks. Even though the pain returned, it is not as sharp as it was and I find that wearing Fitflop shoes (the make, not toe post shoes) is very helpful because of the shock absorbency of their soles. They would probably also help if your problem is gout.
I also have a portable little Scenar device called Pain Genie and I use that perhaps twice a week on the problem area, which I think may be helping to control the inflammation from the thickened nerve.
Yoy obviously first need to see a podiatrist, a foot and ankle specialist or at least your primary doctor to get a clear idea of what your problem is. Good luck and do report back.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Well it's more often now, and I've felt it in the other foot, and possibly my left finger. I see the podiatrist tomorrow. It seems like neuropathy to me and that scares me.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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Keebler
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posted
- I hope that rather than fear, there might be room for excitement that you are on the road to find out just what is going on and how to address it.
This already is what it is. And, no matter what that is, it may matter a lot less what the name of it is than who you choose for your team of how to address it on all fronts. Even if neuropathy, that can often improve with adequate treatment for lyme.
And if it's neuropathy, you'll then know that certain drugs should be avoided, certain foods can help, etc.
Oh, I assume your PCP has done a glucose panel? Blood glucose issues are extremely important with lyme, whether or not diabetes is no board. Being sure blood glucose is stable - by good eating habits - can help prevent &/ or manage neuropathy.
Lyme makes this more important, too, still ways to work with it. Nutrients to the rescue.
Knowledge is power. It really is. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Hey, as money is likely tight and most shoes of substance cost a bunch, you might ask your doctor if he has and inside influence with shoes stores in town for a discount for his patients if he suggests a style you don't have.
Still, take your best ones to him so he can examine them & see how you walk and move in them. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Possibly. The pains I think are new...I just assumed it was a new lovely form of neuropathy.
And yes, if it is lyme related, like my zings and zaps hopefully are, it reasons it will get better w/the right treatment (just thinking out loud).
I know I've had my glucose tested. They said it was fine. I dont think I've done a fasting one though.
I have upped my veggies and elim gluten and dairy for the past 3-4 months. Tho recently lowered the veggies just b/c its hard for me to eat them and my stomach has been so upset. Subbing a fruit for it.
I usually don't wear sandles. Lately for years, just sneakers or boots. Rarely, I will wear heels (w/a platform).
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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Keebler
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- Are you steaming or sautéing your veggies? That should make them easier to eat. Do you do well with Quinoa? That seems to be nice to the stomach along with a veggies. It requires rinsing before cooking - in a VERY Fine mesh strainer.
Are you on antibiotics? Be careful to have only little bit of low glycemic fruit with or after a good meal so that candida does not go bonkers. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
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posted
- Thanks for the name of the test your GP suggests the NCV - that sounds much better than the previous Electromyogram (EMG) kind with the needle electrodes stuck deep down.
Ask your podiatrist tomorrow if he thinks it's necessary / helpful - and if there are an particulars he would suggest to the test as it would be done.
Under the "Purpose" section, it sure sounds like it could offer valuable information for how to proceed. Lots of good detail here. I'm learning a lot today.
. . . Flat, patch-style electrodes are placed on the skin at intervals over the nerve that is being examined.
These electrodes give off low-intensity electrical impulses, which stimulate the nerve. This stimulation may feel like a slight electric shock, though it is not particularly painful. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I have a few times but I usually buy both frozen and fresh organic stuff. the frozen I just microwave. I used to have a lot of sugar as a kid and teen..I loved candy and esp sour candy. I never got a 'high' from it either. Now its just 73% dark choc covered almonds, which is a hell of an improvement. Im' not sure if I do well w/quinoa, as its really hard to tell what, if any, food is making my GI upset. Or if it has nothing to do w/food. And yeah when I make it myself, I wash it in a strainer.
Yes it appears so. I had never heard of it b4 going to this doc.
Ive had both types of tests...they both hurt, no matter what any pages say. I was in tears.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
I would try homeopathic hypericum 30 c as it is arnica for the nerves. If it helps, then you can deduct it was a nerve issue.
If it does not help I would try either homeopathic Ledum30c ( people who respond to Ledum like cold compresses or ice on the area) or homeopathic Colchicum. You can read up on each one and see which one fits you best. Maybe neither does. These are gout type remedies.
Posts: 764 | From Northwest | Registered: Sep 2014
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posted
I fully agree that flip flops (the style) are the WORST for this kind of problem, only aggravates.
I have tried Accupuncture with varying results. Neuropathy can also have an exaggerated pain response (my experience) and if thats, the A. is tough.
Re the massage, i do think this helps. I have an overall body system 'routine' based in chinese medicine that i do each morning that involves waking up the nerves with massage etc. It takes less than 10 minutes, part of it is rubbing of the feet and i have found that doing this every am really helps.
The biggest thing that will likely help is the Lyme treatment and wellness (and time). In the meantime, routine rubbing (and mild 'pounding of the arch') each am after waking may help:)
posted
Well, he did an ultrasound and there is pressure on the nerve above the ankle and by the toes. However, it doesn't hurt when its pressed on, so I'm not convinced that is whats causing the issue totally. I asked about footwear and he asked if I was using the inserts, I said yes, and he said well if those aren't helping, probably footwear wouldn't.
He said he could inject a cocktail med into the nerve there (I dont remember all of the ingredients but one was methotrexate I think) and I declined. I want to talk to my doc first. He said it won't hurt me. And it'd be great if it did help, but if its more neurological than a local nerve, it prolly wont.
I said what could be causing the pressure in my heel, he said that's the question. It could be from blood sugar, thyroid, and other stuff I dont' remember. AfaIk, all those things are fine, but I'll ask my doc. I just feel the nerve issues in my foot locally, and the pain zings MIGHT be 2 different things. As its in my finger too.
I called back and asked if there was anything I can do to ease the pressure in there and waiting for a call back.
I'm trying also not to use my finger that hurts now to touch it. A friend on FB has said she's had the same issues and w/her she thinks its lyme related.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
I read about B6, and seems over 200 mg is what can cause issues (tho the issues did not include nerve pain). I'm on 50 mg. I also eat spinach and nuts and fruit almost daily. But those barely equal 2 mg I dont think.
Also too little B6 can cause issues. And I did stop taking Mediclear, which has a bunch of stuff in it. However I didnt have this particluar issue (I don't think) before starting the Mediclear over a year ago. https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/mediclear-reg
I can buy the referral thing. But in both feet? And my hands? And what is the weird sensitive and painful to touch area on my finger all about?
What is a food physical therapist? Unfor. my pod. said the only thing I could do on my own was compression stockings.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
ack, wonder if you have 'Lyme Arthritis'? I have RA/Lyme Arthritis and have weird very painful points of pain and joint pain. The fix is the same though, the LYme treatment and resolving the infection as best as possible. If it's bad, a good anti-inflammatory med like Voltaren may help while you are getting more well.
I have both the Neuropathy and Arthritis (RA or Lyme Arthritis depending on who you're asking); both are more common in the Lyme mess than i had ever realized, and both have become better with treatment. Stay in close touch with your LLMD about your symptoms, it may be important in the treatment choices.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
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posted
- Your LLMD's input also key, of course. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Bet a lot of these adorable patients were also told "nothing more we can do" - and someone else figured out a better way. Now, you won't likely have to copy the designs here for yourself but since I just stumbled upon it, though it might bring a hopeful smile to your face:
The PERFECT footwear for you, right now, today - to have some fun -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Light massage would be best, of course, as per common sense. If a nerve is damaged or inflamed, you want to be very careful around it. These just show you the location and basic technique - and how you can back up in the nerve or muscle pathway in places that are comfortable.
Self foot massage can be very rough on knees, so I hope you have a good friend who can do this for you. If you do this yourself and knees suffer, stop. Use a tennis ball to roll around instead.
Most YouTube tutorials for foot massage focus more on relaxation in the titles. Here are some found with "nerve" and "muscles" as the main focus:
posted
Well I talked to the lyme doc assistant, who saw me last and rxed the supps for my genetics, and she didnt think the B6 was the issue, but she said try stopping it, as well as the Iver. She said it may be a viral thing w/the co-infections.
She said also to go on Olive Leaf extract 500 mg, and in about 5 days, Lysine 250 mg, 2x/day. Also to double the probiotic (Im' having GI issues daily) as she thinks it may be causing die off and thus, my gut issues...if the doubling makes it worse, then that's what she think is happening there.
She also wants to do bloodwork for, among other things, Vit D, zinc, T3, T4, kidney, liver (I was trying to write while she said everything).
My pod. has seen me b4 and examined my feet. But this time he did look at them and the toes and did the ultrasound. But didnt seem to think any footwear would help, since he kinda dismissed it. He said if I wanted the shot to come back. I asked the Lyme doc about the shot and she said she didnt know anything about it.
Maybe I should get a printout of what nerves are having issues b/c I don't remember what he said.
I dont know if the foot issues are from things related to lyme AND the irritated nerves, or what. Or just the lyme.
He did say I do not have gout and probably not Mortons neuroma but not ruling it out. But he said it would hurt to the touch most likely if I had that.
My ND doc also said she didnt know what the sensitive painful part on my finger was. She asked me if I had ever had mono, I said yes. One of my thyroid readings was low from last time so she may address that.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
I hear they help some ppl, some not. He said it wouldn't hurt me. What is PF? I checked out those 2 words you mentioned...the only things that I use having the first are possibly toothpaste and aspercreame. The 2nd, I do have nuts, nut butter, spinach almost daily, and pot. chips sometimes. I think she gave me B6 in accordance w/my blocked pathways somewhere.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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Keebler
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posted
- "He said it [the shot] wouldn't hurt me."
He is not a LL doctor. He could not possibly know that. Lyme changes everything about a how a person might react, tolerate or be destroyed by some medications.
You need a complete list of every single ingredient that would be in that and then you'd need to ask your LLMD.
Still, physical therapy modalities should be explored as they are far less invasive that a needle going into the foot.
Even aside from medications - and possible steroid, The physical needle going into the foot, alone, might be enough to set some people with lyme far back from the adrenal stress involved.
If you consider the shot, much more needs to be considered before taking the word of anyone not LL that it "won't hurt you."
Now, he is no doubt expert in his field but that stops where lyme comes in. Get that exact list of ingredients and ask your LLMD first.
And, also, if they use lidocaine as a numbing agent, ask if epinephrine might be added to that, if so, that could send your adrenals to the moon to spin around for far longer than you'd appreciate and your adrenals would not be happy.
Those with lyme should avoid epinephrine unless a life threatening emergency. Some numbing agents contain it; some do not. But forethought equals gold.
Physical therapists often also have in their offices LED light therapy that can zero in on the foot. Another example of a modality that is non-invasive and non chemical. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Ok. I'll ask him. I'm pretty sure it's not a steroid. I'm not sure if a nerve study is needed or not. I know my MD wants me to do it.
Unfort, I know I'll probably have ephedrine added to the anesthetic for when I have my crowns put on. I dont think that's avoidable. I've had it before and it just made my HR go up for a bit and I felt a bit nervous.
I do have a PT I saw for the "fibromyalgia". I suppose I could ask if there's one there that works on feet.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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posted
Oh I've done it before, on my arms. The shocks and the needles. i cried the whole time. A friend of mine, by contrast, said it was fine.
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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Keebler
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posted
- Indeed, ditto to LymeToo: "See how you feel in a week or so off the B6."
The nerve test, you said was not the EMG with the needles going down into the flesh but the NCV one with patches and "mild" shocks. Just to clear that up for others. Yet, as I think you mentioned the patch / shock one was also very painful. That kind of pain can be too much for many with adrenal issues, too.
It's good to know there are different kinds.
Listen (said with all caring) the soft nature with which it is assumed that something like epinephrine in procedural shot is "unavoidable" or that you are "pretty sure it's not a steroid" for the foot shot,
this is not the kind of approach that works for most with lyme. Assumptions can sink the sink.
Besides, it's not just if or if not it's a steroid. What is in it? What is going into your body? And where will the needle be placed? All this matters.
What is the intent? To numb or to heal? But, first, get the LLMD's okay before spending too much time in study.
Rather than "pretty sure" about anything, get to the place where you know. If you are self-conscious about it say that you just need to run this by another doctor of yours since you are sensitive to various ingredients.
Call and ask the podiatrist's office nurse for the exact name of the medicines to be used
and a copy of the manufacturer's pharmaceutical information page for doctors - they could mail that to you. Make a copy and send to your LLMD.
And / or, at the manufacturer's authentic website you can check for any updates and better view the ingredients, for your own study just as a matter of habit now, it's a good thing to do that . . .
The NAME & LIST of ingredients is for your LLMD to review. That's the most important step.
Still, there are other therapies that really should also be considered. It's never a good sign when there is physical pain and one is told a shot is the only thing that can be done. Find out if that is true for your case. It takes some exploring.
Epinephrine is absolutely avoidable for the kind of crown work you are talking about. But asking is the first step - ahead of time.
I do not mean to sound harsh but most certainly I do hope the seriousness of all this does come through. The days of going with the flow can come to an abrupt halt once lyme is in the picture. There is more homework and so many more questions we never would have thought to ask that we do now have to consider.
All this is for your safety. I cannot tell you how many times, early on, I did that "oh, it's probably okay" or "unavoidable" stuff and some of it was a huge hit for a long time.
It took one new & wise dentist to write "NO EPI" on the inside of my dental chart to start my awareness of that. She knew, thank goodness. And it explained so many previous disasters. -
[ 07-02-2016, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- There are alternatives, so this is important to know.
Epinephrine is in many anesthetics (not sure about anesthesia, though). Some discussion on why epinephrine (EPI) can be a rough ride for someone with lyme (especially if they have adrenal issues):
posted
Thing is, w/dental work, they already have to use a weaker anesthetic on me due to my Xanax. And I know the epi prolongs the anesth. effect...a crown takes a while and I am VERY aware of what they're doing and of pain. It once took 6 shots for a cavity b/c it just was not getting numb. So I'm always scared the stuff won't work. If they take it out, will they need to keep sticking me over and over during the procedure?
Posts: 606 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016
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