posted
Ok...I am on my 4th day of taking the Bio-Essence brand. Keep in mind I am Neuro-lyme with most issues in the form or headaches and Thoracic back (spinal)pain. Some vision issues, but minor.
1st two days I did 4 pills (more like pellets than pills) 2 x day. Last 2 days I did 7 pellets 2 x day.
Yesterday I felt my seemingly ever-present headache diminish and I seemed to have more energy than normal at the end of the day. Today I am feeling my original level of pain in my Thoracic spine area that I had last year when this all started.
Feels like a 8 inch knife is lodged in my spine. I am HOPING this is a herx reaction and not a return, or increase, of regular symptoms.
Also...regarding my present situation...I happened to be at a point where my regular pulse regimin (3wks of abx and 1 week off) came to an end. I was a whole week off before starting these and am doing them alone w/o other abx.
I am hopeful, yet restrained, that this might be having an affect.
Will update this post one way or the other.
B
-------------------- Bill
**Question everything...it may save your life!!!** Posts: 80 | From ATLantic Seaboard | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I think you can't just take it alone. He recommends it with other herbs, and in the Isatis6 formula there are other herbs too.
It is not like an antibiotic where you just take a single drug.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Daniella:
Glad to hear the Andrographitis is working for you.
Can I ask at what dosage you are taking and how many a day?
Take Care dana
"I will not go quietly into the night"
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ok...what are these other herbs and their dosage? I haven't seen anything within this post noting other herbs. Did I miss something?
-------------------- Bill
**Question everything...it may save your life!!!** Posts: 80 | From ATLantic Seaboard | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Seven Forests makes formulas for lyme, one isatis 6 includes andropgraphis.
I contacted just now a connecticut naturopath who contacted stephen buhner when his book came out. She does not know chinese medicine tho so wouldn't know about the above formulas. Her office manager says she started using the buhner herbs on some patients this fall. The office manager will get back to me next week on her confidence level in the herbs but I'd suspect its too soon to tell.
My concern is if you don't know herbs (as my acupuncturist friend knows chinese herbs and is taking the seven forests formula and its helping) how would you know how to apply them specifically to your own case? It would be like purchasing a bunch of abx at the store and self-dosing randomly. A skilled herbalist will know how to balance them. Thats one reason zhang's formulas really didn't help that many in the end. We all hvae different inflammatory levels, metabolism, different hormone levels etc. Different herbs will affect each of us differently. We need a skilled herbalist and I think this approach might work, if someone knew how to balance anti spirochetal/anti malarial herbs with anti inflammatory and immune boosting. Buhner made the clear point that modulating inflammation and boosting immunity is just as important. He understood that the microbes adapt to the environment they're in and the symptoms are based in part on host immunity.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Danilla Glad to hear the andrographitis is working.
Just wanted to know what doses you are taking and how many a day.
Take care dana :hi
"I will not go quietly into the night"
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay, does this answer seem weird to anyone else? This is what I sent to Bio-Essence trying to match it to the info in Buhner's book.
"Dear Bioessence,
I have received my order of andrographis and I thank you. The instructions regarding dosages by my herbalist tell me to take a certain milligram dose of this standardized herb. The bottle doesn't list a milligram equivalent, is there any way you can get me this information? There are several others in my Lyme group who order from you and have the same question. I couldn't find it on your website.
Thank you,"
AND this is Bio-Essence's reply back to me.
"Sorry we do not use the standardized extract for the item either by granules or tablet or pills. users or practitioners may have to try themselves to find the effective dosage. Kris"
This doesn't make me want to give up on the andrographis because I too feel that is working although I'm starting very slowly according to how I muscle test the product. I don't think I will, however, re-order from BioEssence. Their answer is vague and they haven't returned my replies back to this e-mail. Hmmm. I will see if Buhner recommends any particular products or does anyone else know?
Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still feel it working....am very excited!...each time I take it the herx is lessening. I think I've(hopefully) gotten through the worst of it...
chronic...it is odd..
but real chinease medicine is measured differently isn't it? do you have them from bio essence? they use all chinease guidelines...
BillATL ...had a good system he was starting slowly...maybe ease into it?..I donno... Only if your comfortable..
what about the book? does it mention that brand specifically?
dana...I private messaged you!...
daniella
-------------------- ~Things may happen in my life time to change who I am but I refuse to let them reduce me...~ Posts: 968 | From private | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
to oxigenbabe,
I totally agree with you.
I went down to the 'Chinese' pharmacy to ask about this andrographis, the main guy was not there though, he'll be back next week.
I just would like to say I'm taking a Chinese 'tea' to help me increase body temperature (yang tea), the effect was amazing. It was very fast. But it is to warm 'meridians', which in my case, helps a lot because acc. to the guy, I have too much yin, not yang. He saw it through my pulse + symptoms.
You can believe it or not (I really don't believe it much, but I'm very pragmatic, and if it works it's fine for me).
But I am afraid of trying androphagis because that's a cold herb and may affect the stomach, my weakest organ! So I'm waiting for the guy to come back to ask him about that.
And if it's going to cool my body, I would be very afraid, because cold feeling can prevent me from sleeping, causes terrible night sweats, and even 'caused' my hipertension (because I'm constantly chilling and tense).
So I do think it's better to find a guy who knows about herbs at least to have a follow up.
just my 2 cents selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
Thanks to daniella and this thread, I've tried a course of andrographitis. I used the BioEssence product.
I took the 200 pills over an eight day period. There is no mistake about it. This herb will cause you to herx and this herx is significant. Mine was like no other that I had. The worst part about it was severe cramping in the foot and calves. Insomnia was bad for me too. Everyone knows though, that its gonna be different for each person.
Definitely have a detox plan if you use this.
Now that I've completed this course, I am in a much better place symptom-wise. I'm going to wait a week or two and hit it again.
Thanks so much again, Daniella. This has really helped me.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Mike! Great to hear that you are getting results...don't forget to keep up with all the other things you are taking too. I think it needs the combo,.. ya know..
just my thoughts..
I too have herxed again very hard, to the point I have been in bed for 2 days.
So I am starting my week off this week. Even though on this week off, I still take 5-10 pills everyday because it keeps away my acne!...
but I will ramp up the dose again next week...
I'm so excited that I could share this...
good luck guys daniella
-------------------- ~Things may happen in my life time to change who I am but I refuse to let them reduce me...~ Posts: 968 | From private | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Daniella, Yes, I am also glad you started this discussion. I have now been on andrographis and cats claw. Buhner suggests 3 herbs as part of his protocol with the third one being Japanese knotwood. Haven't gotten that one yet but will soon add it to the mix. I'm starting real slow because I don't like harsh herxs because of past heart issues. So far its just made me real tired and need to rest a lot. But I'm hopeful and thank you. Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Has anyone got tummy pain taking Andrographis?
The guy from the Chinese pharmacy suggested me something else ( a warm herb) due to my tender tummy but I really don't feel much herxing... So I wonder if it works.
I'd like to try Andrographis too, but I'm SO AFRAID of getting problems with cold and tummy ache (I had gastritis for many years...).
I'll be glad to hear any opinion of those who tried Andrographis.
thanks Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
I am still herxing pretty har again....I am hopeful. I woke the other morning and wasn't so exhausted and actually WANTED to get up...
for me that is substantial...
all of you pioneers check in.....
daniella
-------------------- ~Things may happen in my life time to change who I am but I refuse to let them reduce me...~ Posts: 968 | From private | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hello all, Still taking the andrographis and cats claw and haven't added the 3rd herb yet according to Buhner's protocol. I have to say that the more I read his book, the more impressed I am. He is very knowledgeable and I have a good feeling about what he recommends. I am taking the book to my cardiologist on Friday and ask him his opinion on something, so we'll see if he passes the MD test.
Anyway, the combo doesn't bother my stomach and yes, it does make me feel a little chilly. It is starting to get cooler here but it isn't anything that an extra sweatshirt or hot tea doesn't remedy. Before I take any herbal combo though, I have my acupuncturist muscle test me. I've always tested very positive for andrograhis and I think its helping.
I'm taking a very low dose compared to what some of you are taking and I just started the detox foot pads. That may explain why I'm not getting the herx. I'm glad I read about this herb and definitely will continue it. Thanks Daniella! Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I took a week off (I needed it) and I started my second course yesterday morning. Herxed a little last night and today. So far, it isn't hitting as hard as the first time, but its still early. I'll be checking in again.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
Jim Bayliss
Unregistered
posted
I just got my Andrographis today, and will be taking my first one in a few minutes, as I am just having my lunch right now. I am NOT taking any antibiotics YET. And I have been taking some of the herbs both together and by themselves to see WHAT reactions I am having with them. JR WAGNER, have YOU read Buhner's NEW book on Healing Lyme? IF not, I strongly suggest that you do. MAN, wished I had found Devil's Claw several years ago. I just might be in better shape today. I have NEVER taken herbs before, but definitely am becoming a believer in them with what has been happening to me in the past week with taking them for this horrendous affliction that I have been trying to live with. IF we haven't TRIED something, we shouldn't really knock it. WHY? MY doctor won't give me any antibiotics, I am gathering, as he did 6 years ago for 24 days, and claims I "HAD" to be cured from Lyme with THAT regimen. I cannot afford testing, IF I did, I couldn't come up with any of the money for the herbs. I can't afford the herbs, even; but can't afford not to take them either. I was age 63 LAST year, and became 94 THIS year. MOst people in my family don't live THAT long, so you know where I was headed, without doing something about this Lyme thing. Remember, you are only as old as you FEEL! Jim. ###
IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Still working?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for bumping this thread. Can't wait to hear how everyone is doing!
Posts: 393 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
I had high hopes for the Buhner herbs, but after passing out for an extended period for a second time, I had to end off on them.
At the time, I was taking Andrographis, Japanese Knotweed, Simlax, Vincamine, Huperzine A, etc., 3X a day at a fairly low dose.
I believe it was the Andrographis, as that was the most recent one I'd added.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Andrographis worked for us, but with a whole lot of help-- 2 Seven Forest formulas. Very seldom do you find that one or two herbs will help you turn the corner with a disease, so we found the Seven Forest formulas to be helpful.
Cat's Claw, in our opinion, is still No. 1 in the fight against Lyme diseae. Sarsaparilla is in the top 5, along with the Kyolic 103 formula, and Olive Leaf Extract.
Notice that Artemesia attacks Bb as well as Babesia.
posted 20 March, 2007 07:12 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The two Seven Forest formulas that I took were Forsythia 18 and Isatis 6 .
If you take the two Seven Forest formulas then you get *8 known anti-spirochete herbs . In addition, Smilax or Sarsaparilla has been discussed quite a bit, and Chinng-hao you may recognize as Artemisia.
As a rule of thumb, we never took Artemesia or Artemisinin at the same time as the Seven Forest Formulas.
The Artemesia seemed to combat Lyme better than the Artemisinin, but that is a subjective conclusion.
There are several online sources for the Seven Forest Herbal Formulas. It is recommended that you buy them from an ND, acupuncturist, or knowledgeable practitioner.
posted
I took this a while back. It was the first herb I started. One pill and the glands in my neck swelled up. I couldn't even touch them they hurt so bad. It lasted about 5 days and I only took the 1 pill.
What do you think? Herx? or bad reaction?
Scared the crap out of me, I've been too scared to try it again.
Posts: 111 | From northeast Iowa | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Wow- Thanks for the info!
I'm glad to know beforehand that I need to be cautious starting these herbs.
I also find the info on the formulas interesting.
I think the gland thing would have freaked me out too. I'm not sure what to make of that, maybe someone else might know. My glands are usually a bit swollen & tender to begin with. I think they help filter toxins, so maybe too much, too fast?
Was it a 400 mg pill you took? Are you very petite perhaps? I think I read that the protocol is based on about 150 lb. body weight.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
quote:Originally posted by JRWagner:
Marnie...please email me...watch out for WILMA!!!!!
Treepatrol...man, you rock bro'!
How are YOU feeling?
Peace, love and wellness, JRW
I feeling tired JR. Marnie that tag has been on my Display from the begining of all my posting.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
This was over two years ago. I now consider myself 98% free of lyme. The andrographitis worked the best for me the first time and less on the subsequent times I used it. But that was a pattern for me for just about anything I tried. For me, cat's claw did just about nothing. Everyone is so different. The Andro. helped me get well to a certain degree. Anybody with specific questions can PM me.
- Mike
Posts: 153 | From Watertown, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
quic-how long did you have it before it was caught?
IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[kiss]](graemlins/kissing.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic