Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
I had my 3rd treatment today (ok, second full treatment). Im beginning to think maybe it isn't working? I mean my arms still hurt. I came home totally irritated with EVERYONE on the planet today too!!
At what point do I start to notice a difference with the treatments? He tells me that it takes time. That the main focus is to get all the body organs in proper working order and then symptoms will disipate. Does this even sound right?
I feel discouraged. I want so badly for this treatment to help I just don't understand why I would feel worse.
Im sitting here just wanting to cry my eyes out. I don't want this to be another treatment that is just not going to work!! I want some relief and want to feel better.
Tell me again am I crazy or is feeling worse before better with acupuncture normal?? Should I give it more time? I have prepaid 12 treatments with him. He comes highly recommended (Sung Shin acupuncture) and has treated Lyme patients.
Blahh!!!! Im so cranky and miserable tonight.
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I don't know what to tell you. Lyme is NOT an easy fix by ANY method.
I had alot of acupuncture for pain, but finally gave up since the relief never lasted long.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
i know of someone that goes to have accupuncture and does not have lyme and hurts afterward.
He has a lot of upperespitory/lung problems as well as back problems. I think pain after any accupuncture is normal since it is opening everything up/ I know he would be very very tired for a week after his treatment.
I think lyme makes this pain 100 times worse.
For instance i went for a blood draw on wed...something happend and my whole right arm and hand are numb/weak and i can feel my vein.
You have to remember we are far from normal...
Does your accupuncturist recommend anything for the pain? does he think your pain is normal?
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
He will add new supplements next week. Hopefully these will help with the pain. He does muscle testing to determine what your body needs.
I have had problems with my arm hurting after a blood draw too. Not just a sore spot where they stuck the needle, but actual Lyme symptoms in the arm. Doesn't happen all the time, but still.
I just hate the fact that we cant go in and have a simple therapy done on us and actually feel GOOD right away.
Also, can anyone tell me if there is a good website and/or book that I read up on about acupuncture, how it works and how it helps? Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Hi, I have actually just started accupuncture for my lyme too.
I have been wondering the same thing, because I tend to feel crummy for about a week afterward and then I do really notice some good effects from it.
I have a lot of problems in my back and some of the needles are pretty painful going in and even coming out sometimes. Its not really the funest thing in the world,
My pain level is actually in a pretty good place right now, but he is using it to help with fatigue and digestive issues.
I also felt very emotional after my last treatment. About 2 days later I felt very anxious and just felt like crying.
I don't know a lot about accupuncture either. But I do tend to feel worse after and then 5-7 days later I do see good effects from it.
Posts: 8 | From NY | Registered: Mar 2006
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Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
quote:Originally posted by lilysue: Hi, I have actually just started accupuncture for my lyme too.
I have been wondering the same thing, because I tend to feel crummy for about a week afterward and then I do really notice some good effects from it.
I have a lot of problems in my back and some of the needles are pretty painful going in and even coming out sometimes. Its not really the funest thing in the world,
My pain level is actually in a pretty good place right now, but he is using it to help with fatigue and digestive issues.
I also felt very emotional after my last treatment. About 2 days later I felt very anxious and just felt like crying.
I don't know a lot about accupuncture either. But I do tend to feel worse after and then 5-7 days later I do see good effects from it.
Do you notice an increase in your Lyme symptoms after treatment as well? I go in for treatments twice a week and I am wondering if that may be too much?
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I have only had about 4 treatments so far. My Dr. did the first 2 a week a part from eachother and then now he is doing them every 2 weeks.
I know for me that I feel crummy afterward and I don't know if I could handle 2 treatments a week. But if your Dr. is doing the treatments for such strong pain maybe that's why he does them so close together.
after the first few treatments I felt kinda like I do when I would have a herx or a die-off. But with this last treatment I did feel some lyme-symptoms flare-up a little which made me a little worried.
I had some joint pain return which had not been around for the last few months and insomnia which had also been better. i also felt very emotional, which worried me that I would return to feelings I had not had in a very long time and I did not want to deal with again.
today is about 9 days from my treatment and I am starting to come out of it. My energy level is much better today and the joint pain is starting to disappear.
My dr. also put a lot more needles in this time and so I think that is why I had a stronger reaction.
I also ask him a lot of questions about the needles when he puts them in. why he is putting them in that area and what they are supposed to help with.
This last time he put a lot of needles in my back and then wanted to put even more in. I told him I just couldn't take anymore. Maybe just ask more questions. Maybe there is just a certain system of your body that is just a little overloaded from so many treatments. Or maybe like most lyme treatments you just have to get through this time until you feel the real benefits.
I wish I knew more about the accupuncture to help you figure it out. I am trying to learn more about it too.
Posts: 8 | From NY | Registered: Mar 2006
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Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
Ill still give it a few more treatments I guess and see what happens. I just don't want to hurt anymore.
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
Nancy,
I've been getting acupuncture at least once a week for the past 13 months. In the beginning, I would feel worse afterwards but would then feel an overall improvement.
Now, I almost never have that negative reaction.
In general, I think it's been one of the most helpful things I've done. As I've improved, my acupuncturist has geared treatments to whatever symptoms were really bothering me at the time.
I can notice a definite difference in the few times she and I have had to miss a week because of schedule conflict.
I should also say that she does combine her treatments with Chinese herbs.
Like you, Nancy, I also thought it would be a bit faster, but nothing about this disease has been quick or easy.
I'll definitely let you know if I find that magic bullet!
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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posted
im whitney im 14 and have had lyme for 7 years i have every symtom of lyme and more ive been on 4 months of the strongest iv antibiatics and the stongest oral antibiatics ketek and they don't think they can get rid of my lyme i do no that ketek has helped many people though you should try it
Posts: 6 | From MN | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Accupuncture was very effective for me BEFORE lyme. Since lyme it doesn't help and is very uncomfortable.
Don't know if I'll ever go back to it. But for now I don't even consider it. BTW, I tried various highly recommended practitioners.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Hi Candle
I am sorry you are having to deal with this awful illness at such a young age. Thanks for your contributions here.
I know teens don't always eat the best diets. Through this disease I have learned that what we eat plays a major role in how bad I feel or how strong my symptoms are. Your body is still developing. Please learn all you can about nutrition and how it can heal or harm your body.
Good luck to you!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
When I tried accupuncture for pain relief, it gave me horrible bone pain. I guess we can call this a herx. I couldn't stick with it. The needles were painful going in also.
My symptoms began when I was receiving Bioset treatments for a cough. Bioset works on the energy meridians too but with accupressure instead of needles. Migratory joint pain resulted.
I am now consulting with dentists about the root canal and amalgam connection and was shocked to learn that our teeth sit on our energy meridians. I have received two evaluations and both came up with the same diagnosis so I am confident 3 of my root canaled teeth have infection. Shocking to learn that two of the 3 teeth sit on the energy channels to the parts of my body where the joint pain began and continues. Also, on the energy channel to my large intestines.
Bioset diagnosed me as having blockage in the energy channels to my intestines, lungs and lymph. Electrodermal Screening found two of my 3 teeth are blocking energy to these same organs.
ART testing showed infection in the same teeth. That dentist did not discuss energy meridians.
Would you guys mind running this information by your accupuncturists to see if it makes sense to them? I tried a separate post here looking for "knowledgeable" thoughts about this, but no results.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I've been doing acupuncture for 10 years and can say I never felt worse always better. In my opinion it's important to get someone who knows what there doing.
When my acupuncturist was out of town one time I went to someone else and did feel bad after the treatment. Ironically, the person I went to made me feel awful and was cheaper than my normal acupuncturist. I guess cheapers not always better.
Farah on this board is an acupuncturist...I'd trying send her a message and see what her thoughts are.
Hope your feeling better soon!
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Hi Nancy - If after a few more times this alternative approach does not feel right for you then maybe its just no the "thing" for your body, and thats perfectly ok.
I think as with abx, we have to do the same with alternative treatments, and try different types and combos to find what fits us best....
We are all so different...no body is the same and noone will ever have the same results or expereinces as others...
You have to feel good about what you are doing and if acupuncture is not it, then there will be something else that comes along that will click with you and your body on all levels...
I know its discouraging... I have such sensitivities that I have to do lots of trials..and lots of times I get so frustrated when it fails, and others are saying its the best thing since sliced bread for them...itmkaes you feel like your doing somthing wrong when realistically its just that YOUR body is not in the right place at that time for that type of work.
posted
I am an acupuncturist, as Tickalert pointed out, and it honestly was not my main mode of treating myself for Lyme. It was more of an adjunct treatment for me.
I think it works better after you are already a bit more stable, than when Lyme is at its worst.
I think moxa, cupping, gua sha, far infrared heat, and other things acupuncturists do alongside the needles are more helpful, or magnify the helpfulness of acupuncture.
I think most people can have a good sense of how much acupuncture is or isn't helping them after 6-10 treatments. I tell people to keep a daily log of their health while they get treatments, so they can look back and see how their status has changed. Otherwise, sometimes the improvement is so gradual, you don't notice it.
With Lyme disease, most things make you feel a bit worse before you feel better when they are effective.
People are already discussing the benefits of a lot of Chinese herbs like andrographis, coptis, teasel, and smilax on these boards. I think there are herbs that are good for the lymphatic system that can be added to this list. Chinese herbal medicine can be quite helpful for Lyme.
And as I have mentioned privately to Nancy, using herbs to treat "blood stagnation" is one of the better ways to get and keep Lyme under control.
These herbs can reduce the hypercoagulation that is seen in people with Lyme, improve circulation and oxygenation, and discourage formation of cysts(this is what I believe the mechanism is for the improvements I see), while also speeding up healing of damage that the bacteria does to the body.
That said, essential oils were the cornerstone of treating myself in the beginning, and then I moved on to herbs and supplements after that when I had much bigger windows of wellness. I also used low doses of antibiotics on and off, and did do two weeks of IV rocephin in 2003.
I think acupuncture is good once a person is already healing in other ways to balance out energy, improve blood circulation, relieve fatigue, and depression, and keep the disease from coming back in the areas that are treated. I think scalp acupuncture can help quite a lot with neurological symptoms and the psychiatric symptoms Lymies get.
Different acupuncture practitioners have more experience with different diseases, and have different theories they use to treat patients, so their effectiveness can also vary quite a bit.
Even being someone who knows something about alternative health, this disease was very frustrating, scary, and confusing at times. It is terrifying feeling as if your body and mind are falling apart and not knowing what exactly will prevent a further downward spiral, and what will genuinely help.
I think that this disease drives everyone who suffers to become a health expert whether they want to or not. Most people with Lyme disease I know know more about health than most health practitioners I know.
This board is such a blessing that way. People really share good information about what has worked and what hasn't for them, and I often see better suggestions and feedback here than most "medical experts" are frequently capable of.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I'm getting weekly acupressure sessions. I've learned that most of us have many organ meridians out of balance, and that it takes a while (not just a few sessions) to bring them back into balance. Sometimes the energy work that you're having done can cause symptoms to flare (just like a herx), as it has a cleansing effect on our energy systems.
Posts: 50 | Registered: Jun 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Acupuncture as well as acupressure is a very effective tool to get things flowing again. I always picture it as small brooks where water used to just move along, without any stoppage. A little branch in the brook stops the flow. Acupuncture and acupressure remove that little obstruction and start the waters to move again.
With the renewed flow, you will also find that the toxins are being mobilized, that they are starting to flow through the system. That is not always pleasant - sometimes it is too much to handle.
You need to have a lot of mop-up stuff on board, i.e. chlorella, betasitosterol, chitosan, pectin, cholestyramine, etc. to catch the toxins and move them out of the body. If you don't, they will continue to redistribute throughout the body and cause more problems.
All therapies that we do to activate things have the same effect, mobilizing the neurotoxins -- and they do feel miserable if you don't prepare yourself for that. And worse, they will continue to do the same thing over and over again, hurt here and hurt there.
It is as if you were cleaning house -- letting the pile of dirt sitting at the front door for you to stumble over --- you need to mop it up! to avoid the merry-go-round.
It's the same with sauna, with exercise, with massage, with lymnph drainage - with most therapies that I can think of at the moment. And don't forget the colonics --- they really move things out.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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I just don't understand why I would feel worse.![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
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