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Just curious if anyone has treated babs and bart at the same time and what did you use. I know i am still dealing with these two monsters. Trying to find out what was successful for others so that may recommend something to my useless doctor. Thanks, Robin
Posts: 121 | From Houston, TX | Registered: Mar 2004
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This is an excellent question Robin. Unlike Dr. D, who by the way is an amazing doctor, I believe co infections to be an extremely vital component of recovery. I have chronic Lyme, and numerious scientific artiles have documented qualitativly that the illness becomes more difficult to treat with more than just Borrelia Burdoferri. Unfortunatly, we have few, if any studies on the quantitative relationship with Lyme, and other Tick Bourne Infections.
The best thing to do when there is a lack of evidence, is to create evidence for yourself. Years ago, athorities on late stage Syphillis commented that each patient is a law unto himself.
With that in mind, I will tell you what has worked for me, as well as what some other doctors, like Dr. B, would use in your situation.
If a patient is relativly alert to their disease, I'd recomment intravenous therapy. Studies from Fallon show that with late stage/chronic lyme, that this is far and away the most effective treatment. Of course we don't know why, we only know that the evidence supports IV as the most effective, and therefore the most cost effective means of combating Chronic Lyme Disease.
I am currently using IV Zithromax, Mepron 3 teaspoons, 200 mg of Plaquenil, and 500 mg of Tindamax (a cousin of Flagly with much fewer side effects). After this combo, I take IV Levaquin for Bartonella, at 750 mg per dose.
So I am treating both infectious agents at the same time. This seems to work for me as I can tell a difference literally from day to day.
Dr. B, however, does not recommend taking a Zithromax type drug with Levaquin. He may be right, but at the same time, he may be wrong. I searched several databases for drug interactions and found none between Zithromax and Levaquin. Secondly, this combo works for me in physically demonstrable ways (I have several facial palsies, and to help quantify improvement with my drugs, I take pictures at a weekly basis to judge if the palsies are improving-for tips on cranial nerve palsies read the Lyme Times, edition 31, starting on page 22, this is the fall 2001 edition and is available for download online).
The important thing about the combo I'm using is several fold. First, IV zith is very impressive in its ability to kill Borrelia Burdorferri, second, IV zith combined with plaquenil allows for the killing of the cystic form of B.B., third, this combo is a weak Babesia combo, fourth, with the addition of Mepron, you have an extremely effective killer of Babesia, Fifth, with the addition of Tindamax, you have another combo effective against the cystic form of Lyme, and according to several authors, Tindamax plus a drug like Zith is effective against Babesia. In conclusion, you end up hitting Babesia in three different ways, you end up hitting Lyme disease, you end up hitting the cystic form of Lyme in two different ways, and with the Edition of Levaquin, you kill Bartonella, or at the least reduce its number. Also, because Levaquin enters the brain and CSF very effectivly, regardless of inflamation, you can probally prevent growth from B.B., though I would be hesistant to say that Levaquin kills B.B.
Remember, Zith doesn't enter into the brain, but by treating these co-infections, you are making your treatment of lyme much more effective. I recommend that you download a copy of Dr. B's 2005 treatment guildlines from the International Lyme and Associated Diseases website. Read them yourself, and give them to your doctor.
Most importantly, keep a diary, because regardless of any guidelines, each Lyme patient, to varying degrees is a law unto himself/herself.
Keep up your courage, and live strong!
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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I was on IV Rocephine for a period before going to IV zith. I did get a lot of mental clearing and greatly reduced neuro symptoms on the rocephine.
We actullay started poping in oral zith an plaquinil on the last couple of weeks of Rochepine to get ready for the transition for IV zith.
Once on IV zith we kept the plaquinil going and added art. I noticed a lot of improvement after 4 weeks. I my experience, be carefull with the plaquinil, it can be a pretty harsh drug. It did cause a lot of heart irritation, yes it could have been the bugs but we back off of it to see if the extreme pain in my heart let up on it and it became tollerable.
Then we started pulsing flagyl in the mix. This combination was very helpful is hitting a number of bugs at the same time.
My doc would not let me combine the levaquin with zith in my case due to keeping check on my liver.
All of my bug loads are down. I still have to do a run on the leviquin by itself.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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I started Levaq for the Bart 7wks ago (500mg) I am 115lbs----My doc also put me on Malarone but 2 pills made me sick as a dog! So he put me on Mepron/zith 1wk ago for the babs. I have also been on 400mg of plaq because of DR4 for 7wks.
So that is Mepron/zith/plaq/leva. I feel like sh... I am so weak and alot of neuro/FM/muscle pain. I am going to have to get back on the pain meds.
Trying to hang in there Posts: 315 | From USA | Registered: May 2005
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Sorry to hear that things have not been working out well for you. Hang in there, and keep a journal to note your progess, or relapse. This disease can be overcome. It takes patience, courage, resillience, and lots of faith.
God bless my friend:)
Posts: 559 | From Cary, NC | Registered: May 2006
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So he put me on Mepron/zith 1wk ago for the babs. I have also been on 400mg of plaq because of DR4 for 7wks.![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
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