klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Dana, You are correct that there is a big disagreement about whether to "feed" Mg and B vits. to the Bbs.
I simply cannot function without either supplement, and the body cannot run properly without them. The heart will be damaged without Mg, and I have 3 leaking valves and 2 conduction disorders, all of which started before I began to supplement with high dose Mg.
I look at this like chemotherapy. I would not do chemo, since (IME) it often kills the patient, and rarely helps.
Like chemo, starving the Bb of Mg and B vits. will help kill it, but it may also kill you, and it sure won't make you stronger, so you can fight Bb on your own once ABX is withdrawn. I believe strengthening the host terrain is essential to long term improvement.
Also, remember that the Mg you are taking is blocking that PFK enzyme, which is helping to lower your load of Bb in the long run.
Yes, it makes me sleepier, but I can use that. I have apnea now, and have to wear a CPAP machine. Anything that helps me sleep with that contraption is welcome!
Just my opinion. We all have to decide what is best for us. ABX is not an option for me, which limits my choices compared to most folks here.
Best,
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thanks Klutzo
Hope you are feeling better.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bb wants choline...a B vitamin and needs many other of our nutrients.
We use others to fight.
Mg citrate 100mg, NOT 200mg (Klutzo...typo) Lecithin B-50 complex
q2h for 6 doses per day
Is only for STARTERS!!! There is MUCH more that is needed for very specific reasons.
The "above" is a modification of Valletta's U.S. patent: "Magnesium for autoimmune" since we can't find/buy Mg pyrophosphate (a bisphosphate).
Florida is "alternative friendly" - thank goodness! Far infrared (approved) and ozone saunas, Befe detox, Ondamed (FDA approved), and even Rife are available on THIS coast. Dave's on the other coast. Tony is not too far from my home and the places that can provide help.
Greg, ("one speed Greg" - he is a biker... used to be on this board, but is now much better) started his healing journey in my "hometown". Please note: Greg was on abx.intially and was very dedicated to getting well...he eats very healthy foods and exercises as able. These too are critical to fight and to win this life-threatening battle.
P.S. Not all Rife units are "created equal" and one has to apply the right frequencies. Scanning ability of the machine helps too. And doc...I "aced" microbiology which was part of my nursing cirriculum. Chem was not my thing, though.
Bb's outer wall is so similar to our own proteins...tagging will be difficult.
Antibodies are malformed. I've said this repeatedly. The fab portion is malformed because it takes ENOUGH Mg (and Ca) to make healthy antibodies.
Once again...
Our own antibodies are not "perfect" fighters against Bb, why?
"Characterization of the physiological requirements for the bactericidal effects of a monoclonal antibody to OspB of Borrelia burgdorferi by confocal microscopy.
The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but is dependent on the presence of
Ca2+ and Mg2+.
Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations
restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.
The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction.
PMID: 9125579
A ``novel form of antibody-organism interaction?'' I don't THINK so!
E. Required by immunological process. Magnesium, immunity, and allergy: Mg is required for several steps of immunological reactions 1. Lymphoblastic transformation, a prerequisite of secretion of antibodies by lymphoblasts, requires Ca2+ and Mg2+ 2. Mg is required for synthesis of proteins, immunoglobulins included 3. Antibody-induced complement activation is Mg dependent 4. The antigen-immunoglobulin-complement reaction induces degranulation of the mastocyte
(above link is wrapped) This link explains the functions of magnesium to educate doctors.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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I simply cannot function without either supplement, and the body cannot run properly without them. The heart will be damaged without Mg, and I have 3 leaking valves and 2 conduction disorders, all of which started before I began to supplement with high dose Mg.
I look at this like chemotherapy. I would not do chemo, since (IME) it often kills the patient, and rarely helps.
Like chemo, starving the Bb of Mg and B vits. will help kill it, but it may also kill you, and it sure won't make you stronger, so you can fight Bb on your own once ABX is withdrawn. I believe strengthening the host terrain is essential to long term improvement.
[/qb]
Absolutely correct!!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Both, Mag and B's are easily given IM, and pose no problem of feeding the bugs that way. I used to do the B's IM all the time avoiding feeding the parasites.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Depends how you define 'healthy' - what this journey down the lyme brick road has taught me is that there are many different kinds of healthy.
My liver may not be as healthy as the next guys but my outlook sure the heck might be.
I have had to redefine 'healthy' and when I get to those days where I am in a heap on the couch just wanting to cry, I remember that my perspective is a lot better than it once was.
I thank the universe daily for the smallest of things I once took for granted.
Ok, so after blowing all that sunshine up your, well you know where, I will say there are days I cry to be my old healthy mile running, meter rowing self...but then I dry the tears and get up and do what I can.
What choice do I have?
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Dear Marnie, Thanks for coming back to explain more! The 200 mg. dose of Mg 6 x daily was not a typo for me.... I need that much so I can poop! (sorry to be gross , but I take Verapamil for PSVT's, and it stops me up, big time).
Dear Gigi, Doesn't Bb hide everywhere, in muscle tissue too, as well as places even the immune system can't reach? If so, why would IM Mg or B Vitamins not feed the organisms just as much as oral dosages? Thanks for any help in understanding this.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Does injecting magnesium and the B's also avoid the potential for feeding the Bb, or must it be done IV?
Thanks very much.
Aviva
Posts: 532 | From southeast US | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I used to get the IV mag IV or IM to get it there more quickly to support me. Mayr's cocktail, etc. is done for that reason. I had lots of those.
B complex and single B's taken IM or in an IV do not go through the digestive tract where the parasites get it for food and you will only get what they leave behind. To avoid feeding the parasites, the B's are given IV or IM. They do not go through the stomach and are not picked up by the gut parasites that way. I wasn't there and paying that much attention to my hungry parasites, but Dr. K. having dealt with this for years deals with the problem in that manner.
I was taught to give myself all the B injections several times a week, especially in the early stages, where I was totally depleted. Never ever took a B complex vitamin by mouth. The only B I will take is B6 if I feel it necessary. No B-complex whatsoever.
We have enough parasites as it is - they eat most of your vitamins right there in the gut where they are living!!!!
I never take any multi-vitamins. I take food or food extracts mainly. Phospholipids. And minerals galore. Minerals are no longer in the food we grow - not enough even in organic - so minerals and a good mixture of the oils including fish oil, all for brain functions, are the most important; phospholipids to support the liver health, memory, healthy estrogen metabolism, optimizing fat and protecting cell membranes from damage. Phospholipids help to increase absorption (I put it in my Kefir shake in the morning, along with blueberry extract, etc. etc. and a lot of other goodies)
Don't feed the parasites by taking oral B's. They have got the upper hand right now anyway and you want to subdue them and reduce their numbers.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Gigi, Doesn't Mg given IM hurt like a male illegitimate child? That's what I've heard from my conventional docs when I bring it up. Or do they put lidocaine in front of the Mg before injecting it? When you do it yourself, do you buy the Mg from the pharmacy or the alternative doc?
I only know one woman who has had a lot of IM Mg, for a dx of FMS, and she said it did not help her at all. She was part of a study looking at the use of IM Mg in FMS, which came up with negative results.
I take Pepto Bismol at bed time for 6 days, every 6 weeks, to kill Bb in the gut. I am hoping that helps some at keeping their numbers down. It sure seems to calm things down.
I guess the Bb using my supps. is why I need such high doses of them, rather than malabsorption, which is what I assumed to be the reason, before reading your explanation.
Right now, I have painful cracks in the corners of my mouth, which means either yeast overgrowth or a B2 deficiency....amazing since I take so many supps. for both. It happens every once in awhile. I actually have scars there.
Thanks for explaining. I can see your point now, but I guess this is just another case of medicine for the rich. I can't afford to get my fillings out, and can't afford a fee for service doctor who would give me these injections or teach me how to do it myself. Most of the Lymies I know personally are in the same predicament as I am. Disability checks don't stretch that far.
I am glad you had the funds to pursue this and that you are well now.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
I don't understand a bit of this thread-except the game of tag- and Carol B's IT, but she's stuck over in General because I told her it was Freeze Tag-so she can't move until someone else tags her.
How much does it matter that I don't understand most of the discussion in this thread- as long as my LLMD does? I've turned my life and my medical care over to her.
Everytime I go back she adds another antibiotic and now she has tripled my brain fog meds-wonder why????
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posted
I have read and re-read Marnie's post several times & have ZERO idea what she is talking about.
Does anyone else know? If yes, can you say it in direct statements instead of the mumbo jumbo decoy language? Thank you.
Posts: 213 | From ohio | Registered: Jul 2006
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
We'll miss you Cave- write when you get a chance. Are you allowed visitors ?
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
To the tune of "Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head"
Spirochetes keep falling on my head
And just like the guy whose feet are too big for his
bed
Nothing seems to fit
Those
Spirochetes keep falling in my head, they keep falling...
But there's one thing I know
The blues they send to meet me
Won't defeat me!
It won't be long before Zithromax (substitute favorite tx) steps up to relieve me...
***** Sorry guys, stymie and cave inspired me and I had to share in the all-Lyme musical review Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
I'm on my way to the nut house now!!!! the men in white gave me this nice canvas coat with pretty brown buckles on it. OH NO! i have to type sdeawkcab because they just tightened the straps.
my mind just blew after the eagles loss,and the raindrop song,please no more
all can email, and I expect to see raindrops and tony very shortly.
i hope i make dinner time.
docdave
p.s. i may even commit the ultimate act after losing to tonies team. i may shot my tv set. hey tony how many emails do you think i'll get??? Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Klutzo,
I buy it with prescription at any compound pharmacy or pharmacy that carries some of the alternative meds. Tahoma Clinic in our area has it. Apothecure carries it. I am sure there are lots of them that have it.
Mag IM is mixed with a tiny amount of Procaine and it does not hurt. Not Lidocaine - it is carinogenic (research done). Any friendly nurse can teach you in a couple of minutes to fill a syringe and give yourself a shot. I learned that very early on.
The effects of Mag or anything else you take in my mind are in doubt as long as you are heavy metal toxic. They sit on the binding sites and won't let the good stuff in. Or intracellularly. Cells starve. Cells die. It affects the hormones most of all and without the proper hormone balance, how can you heal?
I am not sure about Pepto Bismol and what it does to your absorption capacities when you take that for several days.
Cracks in the mouth - I had that occasionally - I was told this to be a Herpes. Good garlic or other herbals will take care of herpes and much more than that. These outbreaks often happen as we are killing parasites, because the viruses live within the parasites and are then released.
Look into the Rizoles I posted about recently. Hardly anyone responded to it and it is the most effective medium for so many microbes. Most of Dr. K's patients are on them. One of my friends even got rid of Morgellons she suffered from for many years. It's affordable and easy to take. If no one can test you as to which one of the nine, alternate between them. You will see a big difference over time. And they are not unpleasant to take.
By the way, my husband and I are rich only in love. I have learned that ninetynine cents is just one short of one dollar and Social Security has its limits also.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Perhaps you have to take that much Mg to poopie because you are taking so much pepto biz as well?
Just a thought......
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Gigi, Thanks for the info. I just had two lidocaine shots for sciatica, since I did not want cortisone. After 17 days of sciatica, I still need more shots. Now I will ask if I can have procaine instead.
I have a friend with Morgellons, and will pass the Rizole info along to her also.
Imanurse, No, good guess, but I take Verapamil to prevent PSVT's and it is the cause of my backing up problem, which has been with me since my first days on it. I had the opposite problem all my life before then. I only take the P. Bismol once every six weeks and strangly, it does not make this problem any worse. This is a common side-effect of Verapamil.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
The largest organ in our body is our skin...and we can use it to absorb Mg as when we take baths using Epsom salts and baking soda.
If one sits in the baths a long time, one can still get diarrhea, so it doesn't entirely bypass the digestive system.
Even Mg IV can indeed lead to diarrhea so it too gets "routed" to the intestines.
The B vitamins are water soluable...meaning they don't stay in our system but for a few hours.
B6 works in tandem with Mg. It is easily destroyed by our strong stomach acids, thus Valletta (U.S. patent: "Magnesium for autoimmune") used "sub" (meaning sublingual...under the tongue) B6 to avoid it being destroyed.
Re: probiotics.
There are more than 400 different species of bacteria in the human digestive tract. The most important of these are Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium bifidum. They are called probiotics, the opposite of antibiotics, because they aid in creating a healthy balance of microflora in the gut.
In a pinch, the body will substitute Mn if Mg gets too low. Ultimately it appears AL...aluminum will try to help out...which is why in Alzheimers...AL is found in the brains of those patients.
Mg, and ONLY Mg, is attached to ATP...the energy transporter of our cells.
Aluminum and magnesium both burn with a white light...very hot. These minerals are used to ignite other minerals to produce the various colors in fireworks.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
ye marnie everybody at this site should be using stainless steel pots without teflon. these are the faberware pots from the old days. they actually clean up very easily. should not use aluminum pots(even if they are coated) or iron skillets unless coated with porcelain.
most deodorants contain aluminum chlorohydrate. very toxic to body also. use organic deodorant at health food store without aluminum.
even using aluminum foil is questionable.
large dose aluminum leads to alzhemier's and other nerve disorder's
docdave Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Can anyone explain the Pepto Bismol part, I don't get that one at all. It kills Bb?
Posts: 460 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2005
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